The main themes of each arc
The main themes of each arc
I want to discuss the main themes of each arc. I feel that each arc has something special to offer that differentiates it from the others.
1. Hunt for the Dragon Balls - Gag humor. There really is nothing else to it if you really think about it, and I feel that it's the most humorous arc because of that.
2. 21st Tenkaichi Budokai - Don't get in over your head, because there is always someone stronger than you. I feel that this is probably the most important lesson in all of Dragon Ball because it stays true for the rest of the series. It can also be inspiring to people in real life, because it can drive them to exceed their limits and continue getting better even if they feel like they're capped out.
3. Red Ribbon Army - Adventures can lead to many great things. I don't really know how to explain this one, but my point is that Goku's adventure during this arc allowed him to grow and experience things he never would have if he didn't hunt for the 4 star ball(RRA, Tao, Karin, Bora's death, meeting his dead Grandpa).
4. 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai - The official passing of the torch. At this point, Roshi is satisfied that there are people like Tenshinhan out there to keep inspiring his students to get stronger. You really feel like the young ones have finally taken the next step during this arc and become exceptional fighters.
5. Piccolo Daimao - Chaos. A lot of people start dying in this arc, and very quickly at that. The great evil known as Piccolo is set loose, and the world plunges into insanity. I think this shows that if the world was ruled by a single man, this would be the result.
6. 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai - Revenge. There really wasn't much I could think about this arc to be honest. Piccolo wants revenge against Goku and wants to rule the world just like his father, although he fails and loses the fight.
7. Saiyan - Change. A lot of things change in this arc that are permanent to the franchise. The mystical feel of Dragon Ball is almost all gone with the introduction of saiyans, namekians, and battle powers. The otherworld helps keep that feeling though.
8. Freeza - Power. I feel that there is a large emphasis on power in this arc, moreso than others. The constant zenkai boosts, increasingly powerful minions, and transformations from Freeza really makes it feel like a never ending struggle for power supremecy, in which Goku comes out on top in the end. You can also have "accepting your heritage" as the main theme for this arc, but I feel it gets introduced far too late for it to be the main theme.
9. Cell - Hope. No matter how dire things may seem, there is always hope. I feel this is best suited for Trunks and his story. It truly is the darkest arc in the entire series, but there's that glimmer of hope that you never let go of, and in the end it just might work out.
10. Buu - Ridiculousness. At this point the series is parodying itself. From the Great Saiyaman, to the main villain being introduced as a fat, pink, childish blob monster with weird powers, and the crazy power ups, it just doesn't stop. I personally love that it ended this way instead of some edgy, dark arc.
What do you guys think are the main themes for each arc in the series? Also, if you want, you can include GT and Super(or BOG and ROF) as well. I didn't add Super in because it's still not done with its first arc, even though we know what's going to happen. I made this while on mobile so if some things I wrote seem a little weird, I apologize.
1. Hunt for the Dragon Balls - Gag humor. There really is nothing else to it if you really think about it, and I feel that it's the most humorous arc because of that.
2. 21st Tenkaichi Budokai - Don't get in over your head, because there is always someone stronger than you. I feel that this is probably the most important lesson in all of Dragon Ball because it stays true for the rest of the series. It can also be inspiring to people in real life, because it can drive them to exceed their limits and continue getting better even if they feel like they're capped out.
3. Red Ribbon Army - Adventures can lead to many great things. I don't really know how to explain this one, but my point is that Goku's adventure during this arc allowed him to grow and experience things he never would have if he didn't hunt for the 4 star ball(RRA, Tao, Karin, Bora's death, meeting his dead Grandpa).
4. 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai - The official passing of the torch. At this point, Roshi is satisfied that there are people like Tenshinhan out there to keep inspiring his students to get stronger. You really feel like the young ones have finally taken the next step during this arc and become exceptional fighters.
5. Piccolo Daimao - Chaos. A lot of people start dying in this arc, and very quickly at that. The great evil known as Piccolo is set loose, and the world plunges into insanity. I think this shows that if the world was ruled by a single man, this would be the result.
6. 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai - Revenge. There really wasn't much I could think about this arc to be honest. Piccolo wants revenge against Goku and wants to rule the world just like his father, although he fails and loses the fight.
7. Saiyan - Change. A lot of things change in this arc that are permanent to the franchise. The mystical feel of Dragon Ball is almost all gone with the introduction of saiyans, namekians, and battle powers. The otherworld helps keep that feeling though.
8. Freeza - Power. I feel that there is a large emphasis on power in this arc, moreso than others. The constant zenkai boosts, increasingly powerful minions, and transformations from Freeza really makes it feel like a never ending struggle for power supremecy, in which Goku comes out on top in the end. You can also have "accepting your heritage" as the main theme for this arc, but I feel it gets introduced far too late for it to be the main theme.
9. Cell - Hope. No matter how dire things may seem, there is always hope. I feel this is best suited for Trunks and his story. It truly is the darkest arc in the entire series, but there's that glimmer of hope that you never let go of, and in the end it just might work out.
10. Buu - Ridiculousness. At this point the series is parodying itself. From the Great Saiyaman, to the main villain being introduced as a fat, pink, childish blob monster with weird powers, and the crazy power ups, it just doesn't stop. I personally love that it ended this way instead of some edgy, dark arc.
What do you guys think are the main themes for each arc in the series? Also, if you want, you can include GT and Super(or BOG and ROF) as well. I didn't add Super in because it's still not done with its first arc, even though we know what's going to happen. I made this while on mobile so if some things I wrote seem a little weird, I apologize.
Heroes come and go, but legends are forever.
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Rest in peace.
60.
Rest in peace.
Re: The main themes of each arc
There's not just one, each arc has plenty of themes.
Hunt for the DBs - Adventure.
21st Budokai - There's always someone better.
RRA - Adventure.
22nd Budokai - Passing the torch.
23rd Budokai - Revenge. Closure.
Saiyan arc - Change. Sacrifice. A lowlife can always surpass an elite with hardwork.
Freeza arc - Accepting your heritage. The past.
Cell arc - Hope. Passing the torch. Being a hero (I don't know how to phrase this better. How Piccolo sacrifices his pride for the best of the Earth by fusing with God, and how Goku sacrifices himself)
Boo arc - Self-parody (is that even a theme? Dunno, sticking with it). Passing the torch. Redemption.
Battle of Gods arc - There's always someone better. Being a hero.
You can notice how we're starting to repeat ourselves.
Hunt for the DBs - Adventure.
21st Budokai - There's always someone better.
RRA - Adventure.
22nd Budokai - Passing the torch.
23rd Budokai - Revenge. Closure.
Saiyan arc - Change. Sacrifice. A lowlife can always surpass an elite with hardwork.
Freeza arc - Accepting your heritage. The past.
Cell arc - Hope. Passing the torch. Being a hero (I don't know how to phrase this better. How Piccolo sacrifices his pride for the best of the Earth by fusing with God, and how Goku sacrifices himself)
Boo arc - Self-parody (is that even a theme? Dunno, sticking with it). Passing the torch. Redemption.
Battle of Gods arc - There's always someone better. Being a hero.
You can notice how we're starting to repeat ourselves.
Re: The main themes of each arc
I know that there is more than one theme in each arc, I was just listing the ones that I think stand out the most.
Heroes come and go, but legends are forever.
60.
Rest in peace.
60.
Rest in peace.
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Re: The main themes of each arc
Hunt for the Dragon Balls Arc - Adventure. Developing bonds. Teamwork
21st Tenkaichi Budokai Arc - The progression of youth. There some better than you.
Red Ribbon Army Arc - Adventure. Sacrifice. Teamwork. Closure with family and loved ones.
22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc - Passing the torch.
Piccolo Daimao Arc - Revenge.
Saiyan Arc - Defying the standards of society. Sacrifice. The power of friendship and love. Accepting responsibility.
Freeza/Namek Arc - Accepting who you are.
Android/Cell Arc - Change. Passing the torch. Hope. Sacrifice
Majin Boo Arc - Redemption. Unity of humanity.
21st Tenkaichi Budokai Arc - The progression of youth. There some better than you.
Red Ribbon Army Arc - Adventure. Sacrifice. Teamwork. Closure with family and loved ones.
22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc - Passing the torch.
Piccolo Daimao Arc - Revenge.
Saiyan Arc - Defying the standards of society. Sacrifice. The power of friendship and love. Accepting responsibility.
Freeza/Namek Arc - Accepting who you are.
Android/Cell Arc - Change. Passing the torch. Hope. Sacrifice
Majin Boo Arc - Redemption. Unity of humanity.
Spoiler:
Re: The main themes of each arc
Randomness.
Saiyajin Sub-Saga: Your past is a part of you (Saiyajin heritage) but so is your present and future (your son Son Gohan) -> Your symbols of life
Freeza Main Saga: Settling the past -> Accepting your origin as an actual part of you, Vengeance for Planet Vegeta
Cyborg Sub-Saga: Hope is never lost -> It is always worth trying to do something
Cell Main Saga: Hope theme, your legacy will live on -> Gohan, son of Gokuu who is also a part and symbol of his life
Tournament Sub-Saga: Life (or Death) goes on, no matter what, there will always be a new obstacle
Demon Boo Main Saga: Your legacy will live on, United we Stand -> Kids as symbol of your life that also get the torch one day, the universe fights Boo
Battle of Gods: If you destroy a planet because of pudding you have a serious anger problem, there is so much more to expect in life you never could imagine - > Universes, super powerful forces you did not think of like Beerus, Whis and new opponents
Resurrection F: I told you this was not even my final form
Universe Saga: ???
Galaxy Tour Saga: Profit, no wait ..., life is an adventure, Generations unite and will always be connected (Gokuu 1st, Trunks 2nd, Pan 3rd), you have to climb high to get what you want
Baby Saga: settling the past, others suffer as well
Super Cyborg 17 saga: Science, b****!, Vengeance
Shadow Dragon Saga: Even things you think of harmless can backfire, United we Stand
Saiyajin Sub-Saga: Your past is a part of you (Saiyajin heritage) but so is your present and future (your son Son Gohan) -> Your symbols of life
Freeza Main Saga: Settling the past -> Accepting your origin as an actual part of you, Vengeance for Planet Vegeta
Cyborg Sub-Saga: Hope is never lost -> It is always worth trying to do something
Cell Main Saga: Hope theme, your legacy will live on -> Gohan, son of Gokuu who is also a part and symbol of his life
Tournament Sub-Saga: Life (or Death) goes on, no matter what, there will always be a new obstacle
Demon Boo Main Saga: Your legacy will live on, United we Stand -> Kids as symbol of your life that also get the torch one day, the universe fights Boo
Battle of Gods: If you destroy a planet because of pudding you have a serious anger problem, there is so much more to expect in life you never could imagine - > Universes, super powerful forces you did not think of like Beerus, Whis and new opponents
Resurrection F: I told you this was not even my final form
Universe Saga: ???
Galaxy Tour Saga: Profit, no wait ..., life is an adventure, Generations unite and will always be connected (Gokuu 1st, Trunks 2nd, Pan 3rd), you have to climb high to get what you want
Baby Saga: settling the past, others suffer as well
Super Cyborg 17 saga: Science, b****!, Vengeance
Shadow Dragon Saga: Even things you think of harmless can backfire, United we Stand
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feel free to take it with grain of salt or discredit me altogether, I'm not losing any sleep"
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feel free to take it with grain of salt or discredit me altogether, I'm not losing any sleep"
Re: The main themes of each arc
Hunt for the Dragon Balls Arc - Russian economy in the 1930s and early Marxist thinking
21st Tenkaichi Budokai Arc - Baudrillardian simulacrum and hyperreality
Red Ribbon Army Arc - Text as a world unto itself
22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc - Defamiliarization
Piccolo Daimao Arc - Hélène Cixous and the concept of linguistic binaries and the implicit Other
Saiyan Arc - Fear of reverse colonization and the diminishing European power
Freeza/Namek Arc - Nuclear proliferation and the fear of mutation, bringing dark futurism into the bodily
Android/Cell Arc - Nietzschean ubermensch and influence on transhumanist thought
Majin Boo Arc - Horror of the unknown, the uncanny.
21st Tenkaichi Budokai Arc - Baudrillardian simulacrum and hyperreality
Red Ribbon Army Arc - Text as a world unto itself
22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc - Defamiliarization
Piccolo Daimao Arc - Hélène Cixous and the concept of linguistic binaries and the implicit Other
Saiyan Arc - Fear of reverse colonization and the diminishing European power
Freeza/Namek Arc - Nuclear proliferation and the fear of mutation, bringing dark futurism into the bodily
Android/Cell Arc - Nietzschean ubermensch and influence on transhumanist thought
Majin Boo Arc - Horror of the unknown, the uncanny.
Last edited by Cipher on Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:11 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Re: The main themes of each arc
I always thought that was what the Red Ribbon Army Arc was about. Their colors and logos made me think of a Communist regime.Cipher wrote:Hunt for the Dragon Balls Arc - Russian economy in the 1930s and early Marxist thinking
But I was told they were more Fascist than Communist.
Re: The main themes of each arc
They're definitely more in the vein of German and Italian fascism.DB1984 wrote:I always thought that was what the Red Ribbon Army Arc was about. Their colors and logos made me think of a Communist regime.
But I was told they were more Fascist than Communist.
Ultimately I'd take arguments that the Red Ribbon Army arc is an exploration of post-war Japanese guilt.
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Re: The main themes of each arc
I'm positively certain that these are exactly what Toriyama had in mind when writing these arcs.Cipher wrote:Hunt for the Dragon Balls Arc - Russian economy in the 1930s and early Marxist thinking
21st Tenkaichi Budokai Arc - Baudrillardian simulacrum and hyperreality
Red Ribbon Army Arc - Text as a world unto itself
22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc - Defamiliarization
Piccolo Daimao Arc - Hélène Cixous and the concept of linguistic binaries and the implicit Other
Saiyan Arc - Fear of reverse colonization and the diminishing European power
Freeza/Namek Arc - Nuclear proliferation and the fear of mutation, bringing dark futurism into the bodily
Android/Cell Arc - Nietzschean ubermensch and influence on transhumanist thought
Majin Boo Arc - Horror of the unknown, the uncanny.
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Re: The main themes of each arc
Someone make this viral?Cipher wrote:Hunt for the Dragon Balls Arc - Russian economy in the 1930s and early Marxist thinking
21st Tenkaichi Budokai Arc - Baudrillardian simulacrum and hyperreality
Red Ribbon Army Arc - Text as a world unto itself
22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc - Defamiliarization
Piccolo Daimao Arc - Hélène Cixous and the concept of linguistic binaries and the implicit Other
Saiyan Arc - Fear of reverse colonization and the diminishing European power
Freeza/Namek Arc - Nuclear proliferation and the fear of mutation, bringing dark futurism into the bodily
Android/Cell Arc - Nietzschean ubermensch and influence on transhumanist thought
Majin Boo Arc - Horror of the unknown, the uncanny.
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Re: The main themes of each arc
I've read plenty of interviews where Toriyama stated that he only wanted to "entertain Japanese middle school boys." However I do think we can find certain themes for each arc. Due to my familiarity with Z, I'll only put in my opinions:
Saiyan Arc- Kicking ass
Freea Arc- Kicking ass
Android Arc- Kicking ass
Buu Arc- Kicking ass
On a more serious note, I think that it isn't each arc with a theme but rather the whole series. What all of Dragon Ball (sans GT) is known for is evil turning to good, making and achieving goals to become stronger, making friends, good overpowering evil and love and friendship always winning. We see these constantly throughout Z:
1. Goku and Piccolo team up to stop Raditz and save Earth
2. Gohan befriends Piccolo. When Piccolo is killed by Nappa he says, "...kid you're the only person who never treated me like a monster." (FUNimation dub of Kai 1.0)
3. Vegeta, Krillin and Gohan team up to stop the Ginyu Force and Freeza.
4. Goku overpowers Freeza when he becomes a Super Saiyan.
5. Goku defeats Freeza and is stronger.
6. Vegeta lives on Earth and becomes an ally.
7. Piccolo becomes an ally.
8. Android 16 and 18 become allies.
9. Gohan defeats Cell.
10. Due to his training in the Room of Spirit and Time, Trunks kills the androids and Cell of his timeline and saves the world he comes from.
11. Fat Buu becomes an ally.
12. Mr. Satan becomes an ally.
13. Goku comes back from the dead to kick Buu's ass.
I don't think each individual arc has a theme as Toriyama was just writing things as he went along, but his style carries the aforementioned characteristics that makes this series so lovable. Look at Battle of Gods: Beerus, the God of Destruction, ends up becoming friends with Goku. It continued the Toriyama tradition of antagonists becoming protagonists.
Now let's take a look at what GT took from Z to be so lovable:
1. Nothing
Saiyan Arc- Kicking ass
Freea Arc- Kicking ass
Android Arc- Kicking ass
Buu Arc- Kicking ass
On a more serious note, I think that it isn't each arc with a theme but rather the whole series. What all of Dragon Ball (sans GT) is known for is evil turning to good, making and achieving goals to become stronger, making friends, good overpowering evil and love and friendship always winning. We see these constantly throughout Z:
1. Goku and Piccolo team up to stop Raditz and save Earth
2. Gohan befriends Piccolo. When Piccolo is killed by Nappa he says, "...kid you're the only person who never treated me like a monster." (FUNimation dub of Kai 1.0)
3. Vegeta, Krillin and Gohan team up to stop the Ginyu Force and Freeza.
4. Goku overpowers Freeza when he becomes a Super Saiyan.
5. Goku defeats Freeza and is stronger.
6. Vegeta lives on Earth and becomes an ally.
7. Piccolo becomes an ally.
8. Android 16 and 18 become allies.
9. Gohan defeats Cell.
10. Due to his training in the Room of Spirit and Time, Trunks kills the androids and Cell of his timeline and saves the world he comes from.
11. Fat Buu becomes an ally.
12. Mr. Satan becomes an ally.
13. Goku comes back from the dead to kick Buu's ass.
I don't think each individual arc has a theme as Toriyama was just writing things as he went along, but his style carries the aforementioned characteristics that makes this series so lovable. Look at Battle of Gods: Beerus, the God of Destruction, ends up becoming friends with Goku. It continued the Toriyama tradition of antagonists becoming protagonists.
Now let's take a look at what GT took from Z to be so lovable:
1. Nothing
Re: The main themes of each arc
I'm ashamed to admit I didn't understand a word you said in this post.Cipher wrote:Hunt for the Dragon Balls Arc - Russian economy in the 1930s and early Marxist thinking
21st Tenkaichi Budokai Arc - Baudrillardian simulacrum and hyperreality
Red Ribbon Army Arc - Text as a world unto itself
22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc - Defamiliarization
Piccolo Daimao Arc - Hélène Cixous and the concept of linguistic binaries and the implicit Other
Saiyan Arc - Fear of reverse colonization and the diminishing European power
Freeza/Namek Arc - Nuclear proliferation and the fear of mutation, bringing dark futurism into the bodily
Android/Cell Arc - Nietzschean ubermensch and influence on transhumanist thought
Majin Boo Arc - Horror of the unknown, the uncanny.
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Re: The main themes of each arc
Best description ever givenMajinMan wrote:I want to discuss the main themes of each arc. I feel that each arc has something special to offer that differentiates it from the others.
1. Hunt for the Dragon Balls - Gag humor. There really is nothing else to it if you really think about it, and I feel that it's the most humorous arc because of that.
2. 21st Tenkaichi Budokai - Don't get in over your head, because there is always someone stronger than you. I feel that this is probably the most important lesson in all of Dragon Ball because it stays true for the rest of the series. It can also be inspiring to people in real life, because it can drive them to exceed their limits and continue getting better even if they feel like they're capped out.
3. Red Ribbon Army - Adventures can lead to many great things. I don't really know how to explain this one, but my point is that Goku's adventure during this arc allowed him to grow and experience things he never would have if he didn't hunt for the 4 star ball(RRA, Tao, Karin, Bora's death, meeting his dead Grandpa).
4. 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai - The official passing of the torch. At this point, Roshi is satisfied that there are people like Tenshinhan out there to keep inspiring his students to get stronger. You really feel like the young ones have finally taken the next step during this arc and become exceptional fighters.
5. Piccolo Daimao - Chaos. A lot of people start dying in this arc, and very quickly at that. The great evil known as Piccolo is set loose, and the world plunges into insanity. I think this shows that if the world was ruled by a single man, this would be the result.
6. 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai - Revenge. There really wasn't much I could think about this arc to be honest. Piccolo wants revenge against Goku and wants to rule the world just like his father, although he fails and loses the fight.
7. Saiyan - Change. A lot of things change in this arc that are permanent to the franchise. The mystical feel of Dragon Ball is almost all gone with the introduction of saiyans, namekians, and battle powers. The otherworld helps keep that feeling though.
8. Freeza - Power. I feel that there is a large emphasis on power in this arc, moreso than others. The constant zenkai boosts, increasingly powerful minions, and transformations from Freeza really makes it feel like a never ending struggle for power supremecy, in which Goku comes out on top in the end. You can also have "accepting your heritage" as the main theme for this arc, but I feel it gets introduced far too late for it to be the main theme.
9. Cell - Hope. No matter how dire things may seem, there is always hope. I feel this is best suited for Trunks and his story. It truly is the darkest arc in the entire series, but there's that glimmer of hope that you never let go of, and in the end it just might work out.
10. Buu - Ridiculousness. At this point the series is parodying itself. From the Great Saiyaman, to the main villain being introduced as a fat, pink, childish blob monster with weird powers, and the crazy power ups, it just doesn't stop. I personally love that it ended this way instead of some edgy, dark arc.
What do you guys think are the main themes for each arc in the series? Also, if you want, you can include GT and Super(or BOG and ROF) as well. I didn't add Super in because it's still not done with its first arc, even though we know what's going to happen. I made this while on mobile so if some things I wrote seem a little weird, I apologize.
Dragon Ball was always a kid series and fans should stop being in denial.
Re: The main themes of each arc
Besides the Black Star Hunt being a return to basics/roots, Baby representing the living embodiment of every victim of the Saiyan's/Freeza becoming just as bad as those he despises and the Shadow Dragons being monsters created by the heroes overrliance on hand wave problem away magic, GT TOTALLY didn't have anything thematic going for it.SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:
I don't think each individual arc has a theme as Toriyama was just writing things as he went along, but his style carries the aforementioned characteristics that makes this series so lovable. Look at Battle of Gods: Beerus, the God of Destruction, ends up becoming friends with Goku. It continued the Toriyama tradition of antagonists becoming protagonists.
Now let's take a look at what GT took from Z to be so lovable:
1. Nothing
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
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Re: The main themes of each arc
It did not have any of Toriyama's themes that made the series so lovable, so despite what you mentioned GT still sucked.ekrolo2 wrote:Besides the Black Star Hunt being a return to basics/roots, Baby representing the living embodiment of every victim of the Saiyan's/Freeza becoming just as bad as those he despises and the Shadow Dragons being monsters created by the heroes overrliance on hand wave problem away magic, GT TOTALLY didn't have anything thematic going for it.SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:
I don't think each individual arc has a theme as Toriyama was just writing things as he went along, but his style carries the aforementioned characteristics that makes this series so lovable. Look at Battle of Gods: Beerus, the God of Destruction, ends up becoming friends with Goku. It continued the Toriyama tradition of antagonists becoming protagonists.
Now let's take a look at what GT took from Z to be so lovable:
1. Nothing
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Re: The main themes of each arc
28th Tenkaichi Budokai: It never ends, there's always something new
Black Star Dragon Balls: Life goes on, a huge adventure for some, is ordinary life for others
Baby: Festering revenge
Super 17: Representation of Hell's army
Shadow Dragon: Consequences of abusing positive things
Black Star Dragon Balls: Life goes on, a huge adventure for some, is ordinary life for others
Baby: Festering revenge
Super 17: Representation of Hell's army
Shadow Dragon: Consequences of abusing positive things
Re: The main themes of each arc
No it actually managed to make Dragon Ball fun again after the Buu Saga pretty much put me into a coma. Gave us a bad guy in Baby who's motivations actually made sense whereas most of Toriyama's are either evil just because (like Buu and Freeza) or have no real reason to be evil (like Cell). It also addressed the piss poor decision making of the heroes and their overreliance on the Dragon Balls to solve basically every problem they can't punch to death by bringing back all those wishes as a whole group of vile Shenron's.SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:It did not have any of Toriyama's themes that made the series so lovable, so despite what you mentioned GT still sucked.ekrolo2 wrote:Besides the Black Star Hunt being a return to basics/roots, Baby representing the living embodiment of every victim of the Saiyan's/Freeza becoming just as bad as those he despises and the Shadow Dragons being monsters created by the heroes overreliance on hand wave problem away magic, GT TOTALLY didn't have anything thematic going for it.SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:
I don't think each individual arc has a theme as Toriyama was just writing things as he went along, but his style carries the aforementioned characteristics that makes this series so lovable. Look at Battle of Gods: Beerus, the God of Destruction, ends up becoming friends with Goku. It continued the Toriyama tradition of antagonists becoming protagonists.
Now let's take a look at what GT took from Z to be so lovable:
1. Nothing
"What made the series so lovable" from Toriyama's side of things ended at Freeza and was briefly recaptured with JSAT & BoG and though GT might've sucked in your eyes, I found it pretty refreshing to see some of Zs faults get fixed and addressed. ESPECIALLY the heroes constantly relying on the Dragon Balls without any really consequence of after the fact.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Re: The main themes of each arc
Those themes in Z you call them were not only not planned but simply there just cause, no, GT even managed to retain the real main focus: Entertain by being funny and show action in parts of the main heroes' life. GT did exactly that, whether you accept it or not.SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:
It did not have any of Toriyama's themes that made the series so lovable, so despite what you mentioned GT still sucked.
"Citation needed."
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feel free to take it with grain of salt or discredit me altogether, I'm not losing any sleep"
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feel free to take it with grain of salt or discredit me altogether, I'm not losing any sleep"
Re: The main themes of each arc
Haven't read the DB portion of the manga in awhile, at least not recent enough for me to be able to analyze it. For Z though I think the Saiyan arc was about effort, and that as long as you try hard enough you can overcome obstacles in your way. This is shown through Piccolo and Goku teaming up to fight an enemy almost 3-4x stronger than them and succeeding. Also shown via Goku who was born with far lesser strength than Vegeta was, eventually surpassing Vegeta thanks to his hard work training and his allies.
I'd say the Freeza arc is probably about compromise and accepting eachother's differences to work towards a common goal. Gohan and Krillin are forced to team up with Vegeta slowly over the course of this arc, and even though they don't agree with eachother fundamentally, they still realize they need to work together to accomplish what they want. This was hinted at in the Saiyan arc with Goku allying himself with Piccolo, but that was a pretty smooth transition. A lot more of the Namek arc is spent worrying about whether or not Vegeta can be trusted, and therefore the theme is more prominent here.
The Cell arc could be interpreted as being about taking control of your destiny, with Trunks going back to change the future and indirectly saving Goku and the others. No matter how dire things look, eventually the main characters overcome. Sounds too simple but I mean, hope was literally written on the side of the time machine.
Buu arc is about acceptance, but in a different way than the Freeza arc. The Freeza arc had characters learning how to trust each other, but the Buu arc was more about the self. Vegeta is the biggest example of this. Throughout the Cell arc, living on Earth helped domesticate him, and Bulma and maybe more specifically Trunks helped link him to the people on Earth more as a whole. His Majin Vegeta outburst was him kind of coming to grips with that. He wasn't the man he once was, because people change. Plus the whole #1 bit during the Kid Buu fight where he realizes Goku has legitimately surpassed him. On the other hand, Goku, the character that loves nothing more than fighting, starts realizing he needs to leave some for the younger generation. Staying dead and allowing Gohan to be the strongest on Earth in the Cell arc was the first example of this, but in the Buu arc with Gotenks he actually flat out says it.
I don't know, I don't feel like there's a ton there to analyze, but I also second MajinMan and SpiritBombTriumphant's posts.
I'd say the Freeza arc is probably about compromise and accepting eachother's differences to work towards a common goal. Gohan and Krillin are forced to team up with Vegeta slowly over the course of this arc, and even though they don't agree with eachother fundamentally, they still realize they need to work together to accomplish what they want. This was hinted at in the Saiyan arc with Goku allying himself with Piccolo, but that was a pretty smooth transition. A lot more of the Namek arc is spent worrying about whether or not Vegeta can be trusted, and therefore the theme is more prominent here.
The Cell arc could be interpreted as being about taking control of your destiny, with Trunks going back to change the future and indirectly saving Goku and the others. No matter how dire things look, eventually the main characters overcome. Sounds too simple but I mean, hope was literally written on the side of the time machine.
Buu arc is about acceptance, but in a different way than the Freeza arc. The Freeza arc had characters learning how to trust each other, but the Buu arc was more about the self. Vegeta is the biggest example of this. Throughout the Cell arc, living on Earth helped domesticate him, and Bulma and maybe more specifically Trunks helped link him to the people on Earth more as a whole. His Majin Vegeta outburst was him kind of coming to grips with that. He wasn't the man he once was, because people change. Plus the whole #1 bit during the Kid Buu fight where he realizes Goku has legitimately surpassed him. On the other hand, Goku, the character that loves nothing more than fighting, starts realizing he needs to leave some for the younger generation. Staying dead and allowing Gohan to be the strongest on Earth in the Cell arc was the first example of this, but in the Buu arc with Gotenks he actually flat out says it.
I don't know, I don't feel like there's a ton there to analyze, but I also second MajinMan and SpiritBombTriumphant's posts.
Re: The main themes of each arc
It's important that any time we talk about GT we reinforce the fact that it sucked. Some other things might come up here and there, but it's important to end the discussion on that note so people don't forget.Cetra wrote:Those themes in Z you call them were not only not planned but simply there just cause, no, GT even managed to retain the real main focus: Entertain by being funny and show action in parts of the main heroes' life. GT did exactly that, whether you accept it or not.



