The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[ZombieVito]

Yamcha(android saga) vs Piccolo(mecha freeza saga)

Piccolo finger flicks.

[Captain Space]

A few fights:

- Future Android #18 vs. Cooler (transformed), Mecha Freeza (100% power) and King Cold.
- Captain Ginyu (no Body-swap) vs. Son Goku (beginning of Namek, no Kaio-Ken) and Krillin (vs. Freeza).
- Cui and 10 of Freeza's henchmen vs. Son Goku, Piccolo, Tenshinhan, Krillin, Yamcha, Chaozu and Son Gohan (Saiyan arc).
- Kibitoshin vs. SSJ2 Vegeta (25th Budokai).
- Nappa vs. Roshi (Resurrection F).

-18 should be able to take this easily (on the basis that even Trunks would probably be able to as well).
-If Ginyu's estimate of 85,000 was roughly accurate, then at 120,000 he should be able to handle Goku. Krillin...well, his last recorded power was "something over 10,000" and then according to Vegeta it increased some more. It probably wasn't anything in the league of even 60,000 at the time though, since that level was enough to make Vegeta go "ZOMG Goku's a Super Saiyan now!" and such. So Ginyu should win, unless Krillin does the Taiyoken/Kienzan combo while Goku distracts, but let's all be honest with ourselves, they're never going to do that.
-The henchmen are probably all between a power of 1,000 and 1,500 or somesuch, based on early battles on Namek. So it's like saiyan saga Vegeta and 10 non-self-destructing Saibamen, and no Nappa. Goku uses Kaioken x3 to knock Cui around while the others beat up the soldiers pretty easily. Then Cui and Goku are both pretty exhausted/beat up, and the other heroes step in and take out Cui.
-Vegeta, I should think. Pretty sure if Kibitoshin was on SSJ2 level, he wouldn't have been considered fodder to the point it's not even worth fighting alongside Goku.
-Nappa. Pretty sure the soldiers Roshi fought weren't the really tough ones.

[dbzfan7]

A few fights:

- Future Android #18 vs. Cooler (transformed), Mecha Freeza (100% power) and King Cold.
- Captain Ginyu (no Body-swap) vs. Son Goku (beginning of Namek, no Kaio-Ken) and Krillin (vs. Freeza).
- Cui and 10 of Freeza's henchmen vs. Son Goku, Piccolo, Tenshinhan, Krillin, Yamcha, Chaozu and Son Gohan (Saiyan arc).
- Kibitoshin vs. SSJ2 Vegeta (25th Budokai).
- Nappa vs. Roshi (Resurrection F).

-18 cleans house....just like Krillin wanted in FNF.
-Ginyu has a pretty decent edge and wins so long as Goku can't use Kaio-Ken.
-Cui I doubt is as durable or ferocious as Vegeta. So Kaio-Ken X3 Goku I think can take him. The mooks are no issue for everyone else.
-Vegeta. If Kibitoshin was higher SSJ2 tier they'd have had him fight in the final battle.
-Nappa. Roshi at best reached Radtiz level, and even that may be pushing it.

[LonelyShadow]

A few fights:

- Future Android #18 vs. Cooler (transformed), Mecha Freeza (100% power) and King Cold.
- Captain Ginyu (no Body-swap) vs. Son Goku (beginning of Namek, no Kaio-Ken) and Krillin (vs. Freeza).
- Cui and 10 of Freeza's henchmen vs. Son Goku, Piccolo, Tenshinhan, Krillin, Yamcha, Chaozu and Son Gohan (Saiyan arc).
- Kibitoshin vs. SSJ2 Vegeta (25th Budokai).
- Nappa vs. Roshi (Resurrection F).

- Android 18.
- Two things could happen:
a) Goku uses the Taiyoken for a combo with Krillin's kienzan and finish the job quickly.
b) Captain Ginyu wins easily at full power.
- Goku takes care of Cui and Piccolo leads the attack towards the henchmen assuring victory after a good fight, Yamcha lays on the ground because of hunger and dies.
- Any SSJ2 > Kaioshin, if he was that strong should have helped Vegeta when he was getting the pride kick out him by Buu.
- The new and improved Roshi didn't die of a heart attack after defeating many Freeza soldiers, I don't really see Nappa doing that at the same scale Roshi did.
After defeating Nappa, he makes a fool out of his ugly mustache at the same time he shows-off his awesome beard.

Roshi's improvement before FnF was very impressive, give him a couple of decades and he'll be at God tier, no problem.

Yamcha(android saga) vs Piccolo(mecha freeza saga)

Piccolo powers-up before the fight and Yamcha runs away.

[Lord Beerus]

Yamcha(android saga) vs Piccolo(mecha freeza saga)

Piccolo wins with mild difficulty

[ahill1]

Mirai Trunks SSJ(cell games) and Vegeta SSJ(cell games) vs 2 Cell Juniors.

[Sayo-chan]

Mirai Trunks SSJ(cell games) and Vegeta SSJ(cell games) vs 2 Cell Juniors.

Didn't we see this exact thing happen? The Juniors sweep.

[ahill1]

Mirai Trunks SSJ(cell games) and Vegeta SSJ(cell games) vs 2 Cell Juniors.

Didn't we see this exact thing happen? The Juniors sweep.

Cell Juniors were not winning Vegeta and Trunks.

[Bullza]

Demigra vs Super Vegito

[Sayo-chan]

Mirai Trunks SSJ(cell games) and Vegeta SSJ(cell games) vs 2 Cell Juniors.

Didn't we see this exact thing happen? The Juniors sweep.

Cell Juniors were not winning Vegeta and Trunks.

How weren't they? The Juniors were tearing everyone up with relative ease. Vegeta got one hit in, then it was countered.

[Captain Space]

Demigra vs Super Vegito

Demigra; I got the impression his first form's power was around that of 70% Beerus.

[ahill1]

How weren't they? The Juniors were tearing everyone up with relative ease. Vegeta got one hit in, then it was countered.

Maybe in the anime but in the manga the Cell Jr. were on par with Vegeta and Trunks.

[Sayo-chan]

How weren't they? The Juniors were tearing everyone up with relative ease. Vegeta got one hit in, then it was countered.

Maybe in the anime but in the manga the Cell Jr. were on par with Vegeta and Trunks.

What I just stated was in the manga. Trunks never gets a single shot in, but he's clearly struggling, whereas the Cell Jr. isn't. Vegeta gets one hit in, then the Cell Jr. counters. There's nothing to suggest either of them have a chance. With a little more time they'd be dead, leaving an easy victory for the Jrs.

Chapter: 406 (DBZ 212), P14.2-5
Goku: “Watch out! These guys are ferociously strong!”
Cell: “It’s no use, you absolutely cannot win. They may be small, but they’re my children.”

Chapter: 407 (DBZ 213), P5.3
Context: as the Cell Juniors beat everyone up
Cell (to Gohan): “If you don’t show your true worth soon, things will go past the point of no return. Look closely. Vegeta or Trunks are barely fighting evenly…Even Son Goku is in trouble, having lost his stamina…”
Note: Cell says that “Vegeta ya Trunks” are fighting evenly; ya is a non-exhaustive word for ‘and’, meaning the things listed aren’t necessarily the only things there are to list. In other words, Cell’s line doesn’t necessarily mean that nobody but Trunks or Vegeta are fighting evenly, just that they’re the first examples to come to mind.

Chapter: 407 (DBZ 213), P6.5
Vegeta: “Wh-what strength…! A bunch of little squirts like this [are doing this] to me…”

Chapter: 407 (DBZ 213), P7.5
Context: as the Cell Juniors beat up Goku and co.
Gohan: “Everyone’s going to be killed..!”

Looking at what's said, Cell's confident the Cell Jrs. will win. Gohan's fearful that everyone's going to die. Cell goes onto to say they're barley fighting equally. They're slipping little by little, hence why Trunks goes from struggling to bleeding in a few panels. I see nothing to support either of them could handle the kids.

[LonelyShadow]

Demigra vs Super Vegito

"What a powerful wave of energy! This is Gohan's full power!" - Demigra against Ultimate Gohan.

But he is able to hold his own against my Gary Stu and base Goku (post-BoG), giving me the conclusion that Demigra's power equals the plot of the game.

I think that Demigra takes this, he could also take control of Vegetto.

Who defeats/dominates SSJ2 Adult Gohan faster? SSJ2 Vegeta or LSSJ Broly (Movie 10)?

[ahill1]

How weren't they? The Juniors were tearing everyone up with relative ease. Vegeta got one hit in, then it was countered.

Maybe in the anime but in the manga the Cell Jr. were on par with Vegeta and Trunks.

What I just stated was in the manga. Trunks never gets a single shot in, but he's clearly struggling, whereas the Cell Jr. isn't. Vegeta gets one hit in, then the Cell Jr. counters. There's nothing to suggest either of them have a chance. With a little more time they'd be dead, leaving an easy victory for the Jrs.

Chapter: 406 (DBZ 212), P14.2-5
Goku: “Watch out! These guys are ferociously strong!”
Cell: “It’s no use, you absolutely cannot win. They may be small, but they’re my children.”

Chapter: 407 (DBZ 213), P5.3
Context: as the Cell Juniors beat everyone up
Cell (to Gohan): “If you don’t show your true worth soon, things will go past the point of no return. Look closely. Vegeta or Trunks are barely fighting evenly…Even Son Goku is in trouble, having lost his stamina…”
Note: Cell says that “Vegeta ya Trunks” are fighting evenly; ya is a non-exhaustive word for ‘and’, meaning the things listed aren’t necessarily the only things there are to list. In other words, Cell’s line doesn’t necessarily mean that nobody but Trunks or Vegeta are fighting evenly, just that they’re the first examples to come to mind.

Chapter: 407 (DBZ 213), P6.5
Vegeta: “Wh-what strength…! A bunch of little squirts like this [are doing this] to me…”

Chapter: 407 (DBZ 213), P7.5
Context: as the Cell Juniors beat up Goku and co.
Gohan: “Everyone’s going to be killed..!”

Looking at what's said, Cell's confident the Cell Jrs. will win. Gohan's fearful that everyone's going to die. Cell goes onto to say they're barley fighting equally. They're slipping little by little, hence why Trunks goes from struggling to bleeding in a few panels. I see nothing to support either of them could handle the kids.

It was not shown on the Cell Jr. give a coup in Trunks; Gohan said they would lose because once the weakest were dead, the Cell Jr. would join in Vegeta and Trunks; Vegeta and Trunks could only fight evenly, so when the other warriors die the game will be over for Vegeta and his son.

In addition the Daizenshuu 7 stated that the Cell Jr. were equal to Vegeta and Trunks.

[Sayo-chan]

It was not shown on the Cell Jr. give a coup in Trunks; Gohan said they would lose because once the weakest were dead, the Cell Jr. would join in Vegeta and Trunks; Vegeta and Trunks could only fight evenly, so when the other warriors die the game will be over for Vegeta and his son.

In addition the Daizenshuu 7 stated that the Cell Jr. were equal to Vegeta and Trunks.

I don't have any idea what the first part of your first sentence is trying to say. Second, you have no way to validate this. There's nothing to substantiate that claim, as there's no evidence to show Gohan's thinking that. All he's saying is that everyone's going to die. Vegeta and Trunks are stated to be slipping by Cell. Trunks also takes a few hits off screen which we see by the blood on his face when he reappears. The Cell Jr. he's with has no signs of damage or wear. The Cell Jr. fighting Vegeta shows no signs of distress, only a bit of blood from Vegeta's initial hit, which was immediately countered, leading into Vegeta's surprise and anger. Trunks clearly has the harder time, so he'd die first. As I've stated, nothing suggests they'd win.

The source material always trumps supplemental material. I don't know what the exact quote you're referring to is, but Cell clearly states they're losing their grip, meaning it's not even.

[Captain Space]

It was not shown on the Cell Jr. give a coup in Trunks

I don't have any idea what the first part of your first sentence is trying to say.

I believe it means "It was not shown that the Cell Jr. landed a hit on Trunks". Which, as you've pointed out, isn't true anyway, Trunks is beaten up the next time we see him.

[Kaboom]

Goku Ssj4 (Buu) vs Gotenks Ssj3 Post-ROST (Buu)
Gohan Ssj (FnF) vs Z-Sword Gohan Ssj2 (Buu)
Good Boo + Evil Buu + Fat Buu vs Goku Ssj3 (Buu)
Kid Buu vs Goku Ssj3 + Good Boo + Vegeta Ssj2 (All at the same time)
Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (BoG) vs Super Vegetto (Buu)
Ultimate Gohan (BoG) vs Gohan Ssj (FnF) vs Z-Sword Gohan Ssj3 vs Ultimate Gohan (Buu)
Ultimate Gohan (BoG) vs Gotenks Ssj3 Post-ROST (Buu)
Gotenks Ssj Post (BoG) vs Good Buu (BoG)

— SS4 is more overkill than Fusion. I'm giving this one to Goku. Even by the "conservative" multiplier I use for my fanon, the boost of SS4 would be more than enough to give him the edge he needs.
— I figure, to keep it uncomplicated, that Gohan has reverted to his Boo-arc power by the time of Resurrection F. So his Kaioshin realm self has less rusty skills, an edge in "arm strength" from training with the Z-Sword, and a two-fold edge in power from Super Saiyan 2. RF-Gohan gets his butt kicked.
— Fat Boo is only about half of SS3 Goku's power in my book, and Good Boo and Pure Evil Boo are even weaker than that. Goku can wipe out all three at once as long as he's serious.
— If Boo and Vegeta can hold Boo off long enough for Goku to charge the big attack he needs, then they can win.
— Vegeta's rage boost making him "stronger than (SS3) Goku" doesn't mean jack squat against Vegetto, who shrugs off Vegeta's assault almost as easily as Beerus did. Just for kicks, he then also KO's the drained base Vegeta with a single poke to the forehead.
— Black-haired Super Saiyan Gohan gets his butt kicked in a horribly one-sided fashion. Actually-Ultimate Gohan quickly KOs his SS opponents, then eventually loses a tough battle against his slightly stronger Ultimate self from the Boo arc.
— Black-haired Super Saiyan gets his butt whooped by Gotenks in a matter of seconds, but actually-Ultimate Gohan can still win pretty easily.
— If Boo's loss of more than half his power was permanent, then Gotenks can win pretty easily if he doesn't screw around. If the power loss wasn't permanent and Boo got his full "Fat Boo" level of power back, then Gotenks probably loses due to losing some power since the Boo arc AND undoubtedly underestimating his foe as usual.

Goten + Trunks Post ROST Ssj3 vs Vegeta Ssj3 Pre-Majin
Goten + Trunks Post ROST Ssj2 vs Majin Vegeta Ssj2
Fat Boo vs Goten + Trunks Post ROST Ssj + Majin Vegeta Ssj2 + Z-Sword Gohan Ssj2 + Goku Ssj2 + Piccolo + Kuririn (This should be interesting. What would happen if Majin Vegeta let Goten + Trunks enter the ROST & Gohan to train with the Z-Sword? Then, they all devise a plan and mob Boo together.)
Goten + Trunks Ssj Pre-ROST vs Teen Gohan Ssj
Fat Boo vs Z-Sword Gohan Ssj2 (Has 3 Senzu beans)
Super Perfect Cell + Majin Vegeta Ssj2 vs Kid Gohan Ssj2 + Goku Ssj2
Piccolo (FnF) vs Dabura (Buu)

— Vegeta's still got a significant power advantage and beats down both kids at once.
— Ditto.
— Unless somebody uses Fusion or Super Saiyan 3, the team's not winning. Piccolo, the kids, and Kuririn aren't going to matter one iota, and we're already told that a Goku + Vegeta + Gohan team wouldn't be enough to win. Gohan gaining some "arm strength" from a day of weight-training doesn't change anything.
— The kids' chances of winning are very low. Gohan's got a substantial power advantage over them, and "rusty" or not he's still far more skilled.
— Gohan gets the crap beat out of him. He eats a senzu and tries again. Gohan gets the stuffing beat out of him. He eats a senzu and tries again. Gohan gets the tar beat out of him. He eats a senzu and tries again. Gohan gets the daylights beat out of him. Uh-oh, no more senzu!
— The opposing powers at work are even (Gohan/Cell, Goku/Vegeta), so it'll mostly depend on non-strength factors. I'm going to give the victory to Cell and Vegeta due to Gohan's inescapable tendency to drop the ball and foul up his fights.
— Hard to tell, since we've got no real hints about Piccolo's progress. I like to think he'd have improved enough to at least give Cell a darned good fight.

Goku Ssj4 (Buu) vs Super Boo
Raging Vegeta Ssj3 (BoG) vs Super Vegetto
Trunks Ssj2 (Mecha) vs Piccolo (Androids)
Vegeta Ssj3 (Cell Games) vs Kid Gohan Ssj2 + Super Perfect Cell

— See my previous answer to Goku's fight with Ultimate Gohan. SS4 gives Goku enough strength to even beat Gotenks- or Gohan-Boo in my eyes. Regular ol' Evil Boo is a pushover by comparison.
— See previous answer to the exact same match-up. "Stronger than Goku" doesn't mean "stronger than other people who are way stronger than Goku."
— Which Piccolo? If it's before he merges with Kami, then he loses, badly. If it's after, then he puts up a good fight but probably still loses.
— Vegeta wasn't THAT far behind Goku or Gohan. A massive 8x power boost from Super Saiyan 2 and 3 puts him at roughly twice Gohan and Cell's strengths, and he dispatches of both of them easily.

Perfect Cell [vs Goku/Gohan] vs SSJ Gohan [non pussy mode]. Fight to the death. Who wins?

If Gohan actually goes all-out, the odds are definitely in his favor.

Kaioshin vs Imperfect Cell (Pre-absorption)
Kaioshin vs Imperfect Cell (Post-absorption)
Kaioshin vs. #16
Kaioshin vs. Semi-Perfect Cell
Kaioshin vs. "Super" Vegeta

As long as the letter 'M' doesn't rear its ugly head at some point, Kaioshin sweeps through this entire list of fighters with little difficulty. Vegeta's the only one who gives him a bit of a fight.

Kamiccolo ( buu saga ) vs Vegeta SSJ ( cell games )

Vegeta's still got a small edge in power, and probably wins after a long and good fight.

SSJ Goku + SSJ Vegeta (Buu Saga) vs Perfect Cell.
SSJ Gotenks (Pre-RoSaT) vs Kid Buu.
SSJ4 Goku (Buu Saga) vs Super Buu. (If you think that Goku is too strong for him, give Buu an absorption).

— Either one of them alone still couldn't quite beat full-power Cell, but working together they can pull it off. "Super perfect" Cell is still too much for them without SS2 though.
— Gotenks gets his cocky clock cleaned. He'd need SS2 on top of his RoSaT improvements to fight evenly with this Boo, and SS3 to give him an easy victory.
— See my previous two similar answers -- SS4 Goku can handle even Gotenks- or Gohan-Boo with relative ease.

Kibitoshin vs. Fat Buu?

I'd consider merged Kaioshin in the upper range of SS2 power, but Fat Boo is still beyond that and wins without much trouble.

1.) Base Future Trunks(Android Saga) vs Pre-SSJ Goku(Against Namek Freeza)
2.) MSSJ Goku(CG) vs Androids 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 & 18
3.) MSSJ kid Gohan vs ASSJ Vegeta, ASSJ Trunks, Piccolo(Post-ROSAT)
4.) SSJ2 Vegeta(Pre-Majin) & SS2 Goku(Buu Saga) vs Mr Buu
5.) Kid Buu vs SSJ Gotenks(POST-ROSAT)
- Unlimited Fusion time - The Boys are not messing around

1) Assuming Goku's not allowed to use the Kaio-Ken, then Trunks has a slight power advantage over him. But Goku's extremely skilled and resourceful and may still be able to win, like 2 out of 5 times.
2) Goku's strong enough to rip apart all six Androids at the same time. He totally left them in his dust with his RoSaT training.
3) If Gohan fights seriously, he can win this pretty easily.
4) If Boo really did permanently lose over half his power, then either SS2 Goku or Vegeta alone could probably win against him.
5) Like previously answered, Gotenks needs at least SS2 to contend with Pure Boo.

*Speed Equalized*
1.) USSJ Vegeta + USSJ Goku vs. SSJ2 Gohan.
2.) USSJ Vegeta + USSJ Goku + USSJ Trunks vs. SSJ2 Gohan.
*Cell saga iterations.

Speed equalized, but not power? In that case, Gohan demolishes the opposition in both fights. Even if Grade 3 and SS2 grant similar power boosts over SS1 (which I think they do), Gohan during the Cell Games was so much stronger overall than anyone else when they used Grade 3 that the resulting power difference is enormous.

Android saga Piccolo vs. Yardrat SS Goku + Trunks saga SS Trunks

Before merging with Kami, Piccolo was only slightly ahead of either of these guys in my book. Working together, they beat him without too much difficulty.

SS Trunks (Trunks saga) vs. Android #20 (pre-absorptions)

No.20 gets his cyborg butt easily wrecked. These are not the 'droids Trunks is looking (out) for.

- Future Android #18 vs. Cooler (transformed), Mecha Freeza (100% power) and King Cold.
- Captain Ginyu (no Body-swap) vs. Son Goku (beginning of Namek, no Kaio-Ken) and Krillin (vs. Freeza).
- Cui and 10 of Freeza's henchmen vs. Son Goku, Piccolo, Tenshinhan, Krillin, Yamcha, Chaozu and Son Gohan (Saiyan arc).
- Kibitoshin vs. SSJ2 Vegeta (25th Budokai).
- Nappa vs. Roshi (Resurrection F).

— The more powerful Eighteen Prime would blow through all three of them easily, but the weaker Future Eighteen might get a little banged up doing it. She still wins though.
— At a PL of 75,000, Kuririn is more than strong enough to effectively double-team Ginyu (120k) alongside Goku (90k). It's not an easy fight, but they win in the end.
— I doubt that Kwi is as resilient as Vegeta, so I don't think he gets back up from Goku's extreme Kaio-Ken outbursts the same way. Even if Goku's exhausted and more or less out of the fight from that, the combined strength of everyone else is enough to handle a gaggle of Freeza soldiers with average PLs of 1,000-ish.
— As long as nothing causes him to wuss out, Kaioshin has enough power to win this.
— Hard to tell. They might be similar in power (4,000-5,000), but I think Nappa will win due to superior durability and stamina.

Yamcha(android saga) vs Piccolo(mecha freeza saga)

Poor Yamcha.

Mirai Trunks SSJ (cell games) and Vegeta SSJ (cell games) vs 2 Cell Juniors.

We kind of already saw this happening. The Cell Juniors have a minor power advantage, but it's enough to let them win if they get serious.

Demigra vs Super Vegito

Taking game mechanics out of the question, I'm thinking Vegetto wins. In the final fight against Demigra, Goku said he'd become a god before, but he still used SS3 and stuff, and lately I've been rethinking just how strong Goku's new "base" form ended up in the aftermath of the god form anyway.

Who defeats/dominates SSJ2 Adult Gohan faster? SSJ2 Vegeta or LSSJ Broly (Movie 10)?

Broli does. He's a lot more brutal and straightforward in his fighting than Vegeta, AND he has more power to throw around.

[supercat]

A few fights:

- Future Android #18 vs. Cooler (transformed), Mecha Freeza (100% power) and King Cold.
- Captain Ginyu (no Body-swap) vs. Son Goku (beginning of Namek, no Kaio-Ken) and Krillin (vs. Freeza).
- Cui and 10 of Freeza's henchmen vs. Son Goku, Piccolo, Tenshinhan, Krillin, Yamcha, Chaozu and Son Gohan (Saiyan arc).
- Kibitoshin vs. SSJ2 Vegeta (25th Budokai).
- Nappa vs. Roshi (Resurrection F).

-Android 18 destroys them all with the utmost ease. She sat a few notches above the guy who effortlessly slaughtered Frieza and Cold. Even with the aid of Cooler, the tyrannical family still loses, as Frieza's long-lost brother probably isn't much stronger than he is.

-Ginyu.

-Goku's Kaioken x3 is enough to make quick work of Cui, while his buddies decimate Frieza's lackeys one by one. Heck, even Kaioken x2 may cut it, considering how incompetent of a fighter Cui is compared to a fighting genius like Goku.

-Kaioshin's sudden desire to face the root of all his fears tells me that he's likely made a major leap in power. I doubt the earrings grant anything less than a 3-5x increase, seeing as how stoked Elder Kai was about their usage. Even if we exclude Kibito's trivial power from the equation, a 3-5x boost on top of Kaioshin alone (presumably stronger than Cell Jr.) is more than enough to crush any Buu arc SSJ2.

-It honestly wouldn't surprise me if Roshi amassed the power necessitated to trump a fool like Nappa. If a random lackey stated to be on par with a useless tool like Dodoria could suddenly be on fighting terms with Piccolo, I have no qualms about the turtle hermit reaching the upper-tier of power displayed in the Saiyan arc.

[ekrolo2]

Cell Games Post Second ROSAT Majin Vegeta VS Cell Games Goku