"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[LuckyCat]

Pretty sure I will love ROF (I still didn't had the chance to watch the entire movie with quality/subs) but in super, ROF arc will just seem a entire filler in the middle of BOG/Universe 6 arcs. To me, the better solution would be just ignore it.

It can work like Bojack Unbound did with DBZ. Fits in the timeline, but that's it. We can move forward without it.

I think that could work, but you would lose some character progression with Whis, Vegeta and Goku's training. Also Whis' time altering ability would have to be explained in another scene. It's not like RoF didn't add anything to the main storyline.

[irreality]

Pretty sure I will love ROF (I still didn't had the chance to watch the entire movie with quality/subs) but in super, ROF arc will just seem a entire filler in the middle of BOG/Universe 6 arcs. To me, the better solution would be just ignore it. .

Maybe they develop the plot of the planet trade org collapsing further? and it is somehow related to inter-universe travel? Or (Extremely vague spoiler):

Spoiler:

if somehow Whis actions at the end of the movie have universe altering consequences not show in the movie?

We still don't have any reason for Universe 6 travel, and I want that to flow organically, not just be like introduced into one episode like a macguffin.

[FortuneSSJ]

I think that could work, but you would lose some character progression with Whis, Vegeta and Goku's training. Also Whis' time altering ability would have to be explained in another scene. It's not like RoF didn't add anything to the main storyline.

We could still have all of that without bringing Freeza back to life.

Spoiler:

if somehow Whis actions at the end of the movie have universe altering consequences not show in the movie?

That's a good one. OP powers like that should always have repercussions.

[FutureGohanSSJ2]

Pretty sure I will love ROF (I still didn't had the chance to watch the entire movie with quality/subs) but in super, ROF arc will just seem a entire filler in the middle of BOG/Universe 6 arcs. To me, the better solution would be just ignore it.

It can work like Bojack Unbound did with DBZ. Fits in the timeline, but that's it. We can move forward without it.

Except that it's not filler. In fact, it's very crucial to the story. For the first time in YEARS, we're finally getting some concrete character development for Goku and Vegeta. They're both finally realizing their flaws. Freeza coming back finally pushed Goku to realize that he needs to stop holding back.

I'm tired of people thinking things are "filler" just because their not huge advancements in the story. This is canon. It /needs/ to be canon. Be thankful Goku and Vegeta are finally getting character development.

[Doctor.]

Except that it's not filler. In fact, it's very crucial to the story. For the first time in YEARS, we're finally getting some concrete character development for Goku and Vegeta. They're both finally realizing their flaws. Freeza coming back finally pushed Goku to realize that he needs to stop holding back.

I'm tired of people thinking things are "filler" just because their not huge advancements in the story. This is canon. It /needs/ to be canon. Be thankful Goku and Vegeta are finally getting character development.

That's a complete lie. We get zero character development in the movie, we get character regression. Goku and Vegeta end the movie saying "Yea, we're never gonna work together, good to know!", the movie makes an effort of forcing character flaws onto them and then, after setting up their potential change, does nothing with it. Goku already killed his enemies before when he needed to, he doesn't need to learn to do it now.

The movie is straight up trash and it should best be ignored. At the very least, Toei should get their top writers onto it and remedy the mess that RF is.

[pacz360]

Except that it's not filler. In fact, it's very crucial to the story. For the first time in YEARS, we're finally getting some concrete character development for Goku and Vegeta. They're both finally realizing their flaws. Freeza coming back finally pushed Goku to realize that he needs to stop holding back.

I'm tired of people thinking things are "filler" just because their not huge advancements in the story. This is canon. It /needs/ to be canon. Be thankful Goku and Vegeta are finally getting character development.

That's a complete lie. We get zero character development in the movie, we get character regression. Goku and Vegeta end the movie saying "Yea, we're never gonna work together, good to know!", the movie makes an effort of forcing character flaws onto them and then, after setting up their potential change, does nothing with it. Goku already killed his enemies before when he needed to, he doesn't need to learn to do it now.

The movie is straight up trash and it should best be ignored. At the very least, Toei should get their top writers onto it and remedy the mess that RF is.

Exactly the movie was terrible and there was nothing good about it no sense of danger or anything plus nothing changed at all

[FortuneSSJ]

Except that it's not filler. In fact, it's very crucial to the story. For the first time in YEARS, we're finally getting some concrete character development for Goku and Vegeta. They're both finally realizing their flaws. Freeza coming back finally pushed Goku to realize that he needs to stop holding back.

I'm tired of people thinking things are "filler" just because their not huge advancements in the story. This is canon. It /needs/ to be canon. Be thankful Goku and Vegeta are finally getting character development.

How is Freeza coming back crucial to the story?! He doesn't bring anything new to Gods/Universe story where we are going.

They could give ROF a great ending like:
- Freeza revival somewhow triggers something in Universe 7.
- Freeza somehow ends up in another Universe. Universe 6?!
- Freeza is saved by a new God. Champa for example.

But no! They couldn't have given it a more cliche ending. Kill him with a Kamehameha. They didn't even let Vegeta kill him.
They brought the most famous villain back and killed him right away. We already have a lot of revivals in this series, we don't need the villains to come back too.

If you're gonna revive a old villain, at least make something interesting with him.

Goku/Vegeta finally having character development?! Is this supposed to be funny?!

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I see Resurrection "F" as an elongated training exercise and the final step for Goku and Vegeta before they head of to U6 it also gives them a proper chance to test out SSGSS, from what I gathered about Resurrection "F" it was never about Freeza it was more Goku and Vegeta showing off their new found abilities, they have done their training and Freeza was their final test so to speak. After BoG it is pretty obvious Goku and especially Vegeta are not ready for the Universe 6 so we needed something in between. Freeza comes back mega strong and Vegeta and Goku manage to take him out, test passed and on to universe 6 we go! I can understand why people would want the film skipped but i'd much rather we get a flashy fight with Freeza rather then seeing them train with Whis or themselves, hopefully the arc will be no more than 8 episodes, I think that is an adequate length and we could have a few slice of life before or after to make it to 12 eps.

[alakazam^]

Except that it's not filler. In fact, it's very crucial to the story. For the first time in YEARS, we're finally getting some concrete character development for Goku and Vegeta. They're both finally realizing their flaws. Freeza coming back finally pushed Goku to realize that he needs to stop holding back.

I'm tired of people thinking things are "filler" just because their not huge advancements in the story. This is canon. It /needs/ to be canon. Be thankful Goku and Vegeta are finally getting character development.

How is Freeza coming back crucial to the story?! He doesn't bring anything new to Gods/Universe story where we are going.

They could give ROF a great ending like:
- Freeza revival somewhow triggers something in Universe 7.
- Freeza somehow ends up in another Universe. Universe 6?!
- Freeza is saved by a new God. Champa for example.

But no! They couldn't have given it a more cliche ending. Kill him with a Kamehameha. They didn't even let Vegeta kill him.
They brought the most famous villain back and killed him right away. We already have a lot of revivals in this series, we don't need the villains to come back too.

If you're gonna revive a old villain, at least make something interesting with him.

Goku/Vegeta finally having character development?! Is this supposed to be funny?!

The movie doesn't need to add anything to the Dragon Ball story, the mere fact that Toriyama wrote it as to add to the original story means it is "canon". You might not have liked the movie but, frankly, you need to deal with it. It exists, it counts and you don't need to keep whining wbout it.

Besides, we don't know how they'll portray the Fukkatsu no F arc in Super, they might change things and connect it with Universe 6 or other plot points. Complaining about it at this point does no one a favour.

[FortuneSSJ]

The movie doesn't need to add anything to the Dragon Ball story, the mere fact that Toriyama wrote it as to add to the original story means it is "canon". You might not have liked the movie but, frankly, you need to deal with it. It exists, it counts and you don't need to keep whining wbout it.

Besides, we don't know how they'll portray the Fukkatsu no F arc in Super, they might change things and connect it with Universe 6 or other plot points. Complaining about it at this point does no one a favour.

Its not a matter of being canon or not. You missed the point.
I never said ROF was filler. I said putting ROF arc between BOG/Universe 6 arc will make it looking like filler, unless changes are made.

Pretty sure I will love ROF (I still didn't had the chance to watch the entire movie with quality/subs) but in super, ROF arc will just seem a entire filler in the middle of BOG/Universe 6 arcs. To me, the better solution would be just ignore it.

[Chuquita]

I hope they pump more plot into the reF arc. It worked ok in movie format, but I feel if they kept it the same and lengthened stuff like they're doing with BOG that it'd be boring to me (if it gets really bad I'd consider putting it on hold and marathoning it at a later time, but that'd be a worst-case-scenario). BOG had enough plot to it where even one part of the story doesn't interest me (like Oolong vs Beerus) I still have the first half with Vegeta vs Beerus, and Gokû being Gokû at the end there.

[FutureGohanSSJ2]

Except that it's not filler. In fact, it's very crucial to the story. For the first time in YEARS, we're finally getting some concrete character development for Goku and Vegeta. They're both finally realizing their flaws. Freeza coming back finally pushed Goku to realize that he needs to stop holding back.

I'm tired of people thinking things are "filler" just because their not huge advancements in the story. This is canon. It /needs/ to be canon. Be thankful Goku and Vegeta are finally getting character development.

That's a complete lie. We get zero character development in the movie, we get character regression. Goku and Vegeta end the movie saying "Yea, we're never gonna work together, good to know!", the movie makes an effort of forcing character flaws onto them and then, after setting up their potential change, does nothing with it. Goku already killed his enemies before when he needed to, he doesn't need to learn to do it now.

The movie is straight up trash and it should best be ignored. At the very least, Toei should get their top writers onto it and remedy the mess that RF is.

The problem wasn't killing an enemy, it was taking fights seriously from the start and not treating everything like a test for himself. It didn't "force" a flaw onto him, that flaw existed in-series. That also ignores the plain and simple fact that Goku and Vegeta are Saiyans. As such they value their ability and skill as a singular warrior above all else. So of course they'd hate the idea of having to work together, especially as a good chunk of their relationship is competitive toward one another.

[fadeddreams5]

I can't wait for Beerus' silhouette from the episode title screen to be replaced with Frieza's. >.>

[garfield15]

As said earlier, I find that RoF is supposed to be the introduction to let Goku and Vegeta be able to go up against fighters from the other universes (I mean Beerus said there might be guys stronger than him out there. You think they'd be ready for that at the end of BoG?). Much like how BoG wasn't so much about defeating a new evil villain so much as it was a prologue for the events to come, RoF was the training ground to show that they are ready for future bad guys. Or not, since Goku and Vegeta not being able to fight together was such a recurring thing in that movie.

A part of me feels like they have been planning for something like this since BoG and have been using the hype brought along from movies to do it

[alakazam^]

Its not a matter of being canon or not. You missed the point.
I never said ROF was filler. I said putting ROF arc between BOG/Universe 6 arc will make it looking like filler, unless changes are made.

I didn't miss the point. The only reason it would look like filler between those two arcs would be if it really was filler which, going by some of your posts, that's what you regard it to be. I just said that it didn't matter how little the movie might have accomplished because it still was part of the story and, obviously, it would be part of Super.

[Doctor.]

The problem wasn't killing an enemy, it was taking fights seriously from the start and not treating everything like a test for himself. It didn't "force" a flaw onto him, that flaw existed in-series. That also ignores the plain and simple fact that Goku and Vegeta are Saiyans. As such they value their ability and skill as a singular warrior above all else. So of course they'd hate the idea of having to work together, especially as a good chunk of their relationship is competitive toward one another.

His overconfidence was already a problem that was addressed with his training with Mr. Popo. Later in the Namek arc, Goku scolds Burter and Jeice for letting their guards down and being so cocky. In Battle of Gods, he's rightfully cocky because he's one of the strongest in the universe but he quickly humbles himself the moment he loses. But now suddenly he's cocky again? This is character regression, the series has plenty of character regression but that doesn't mean we should tolerate it.

It doesn't matter if they're Saiyans. The movie starts off with their training and says that together they could be a force to be reckoned with. We, as the audience, then expect to see a threat where Goku and Vegeta can only win if they put aside their differences and learn to work together, or at least agree to work together in the future if the time ever demands for it. This doesn't happen. The movie opens up character flaws and then never bothers to address them. There is zero character development in this movie. There are only forced flaws that are somewhat quickly resolved to give off the illusion of character development.

[TRL]

I'm starting to fear Super will go the GT way and will have only unsignificant fights. This is my only concern with Super. And it is legitimate because Toei seems to be handling the fight scenes. Toriyama isn't drawing out the fights step by step anymore. He's more like casually mentioning them in his drafts.

For a fight to be significant I figure it needs to be at least 5 episodes. The Goku vs Vegeta battle takes about 6 episodes. But the whole fight against the saiyans draws out into about 15. You could say, well this is bad pacing, no way it should take this long. But this is exactly what I liked about dbz while first watching it. The tension steadily rising, even while training before the saiyans arrival. Then there was so much stuff happening left and right during the battle. People dieing, sacrifices, arms being blown off, Gohan's training showing first results, Piccolo being a badass.. and then eventually Goku's arrival, you expected him to finish nappa, but then Vegeta does. The actual fight between Goku and Vegeta threw us for a loop several times too. Many twists and turns and awesome choreography. Vegeta turning Ape, Goku being completely finished and Gohan and Krillin having to get into the fighting again, the spirit bomb. And ofcourse eventually, Yajirobe!

I hope Toriyama eventually realises this, that he really has to flesh out his fights, otherwise Super is doomed to suffer the same fate as GT. Even though it will have more awesome characters i'm sure, the fights will never spark my interest. Half an episode of a fight will never have anything significant or suprising happening. Just some punches thrown and a mandatory beam attack. Cue big smoke and result. It just feels like a fight scene for the sake of a fight scene. It doesn't feel like that's the story they want to tell. More like it's something they have to struggle through because Dragonball is nothing without it's fights. GT always felt like this to me.

Another problem I'm having with the Super adaption, the location, the ship offers a really stale scenery. There isn't much detailing going into the backgrounds. Basically always metal walls, wooden floors and an ocean in the horizon. No way that's as interesting as a Bryce canyon like terrain in the Vegeta vs Goku fight or even an underground lake like in the movie.
I guess Toriyama is also to fault here, because he isn't dishing out beautiful backgrounds for every scene anymore, the background painters have nothing to be inspired by anymore. Well toriyama did design one sketch of a boat. Myeah.

I guess we just have to face it, because of Toriyama not making a manga anymore, Super is inherently different than everything Toriyama gave us before. It's bound to be less satisfactory because Toei is filling in the gaps that not drawing out every scene leaves. So we should expect the quality to be slightly better than GT because Toriyama is involved, but not as good as Dragonball or DBZ since Toei is involved more in the fights. It's sad, I know.

[MaGyunia]

The problem wasn't killing an enemy, it was taking fights seriously from the start and not treating everything like a test for himself. It didn't "force" a flaw onto him, that flaw existed in-series. That also ignores the plain and simple fact that Goku and Vegeta are Saiyans. As such they value their ability and skill as a singular warrior above all else. So of course they'd hate the idea of having to work together, especially as a good chunk of their relationship is competitive toward one another.

His overconfidence was already a problem that was addressed with his training with Mr. Popo. Later in the Namek arc, Goku scolds Burter and Jeice for letting their guards down and being so cocky. In Battle of Gods, he's rightfully cocky because he's one of the strongest in the universe but he quickly humbles himself the moment he loses. But now suddenly he's cocky again? This is character regression, the series has plenty of character regression but that doesn't mean we should tolerate it.

It doesn't matter if they're Saiyans. The movie starts off with their training and says that together they could be a force to be reckoned with. We, as the audience, then expect to see a threat where Goku and Vegeta can only win if they put aside their differences and learn to work together, or at least agree to work together in the future if the time ever demands for it. This doesn't happen. The movie opens up character flaws and then never bothers to address them. There is zero character development in this movie. There are only forced flaws that are somewhat quickly resolved to give off the illusion of character development.

I tend to lean towards the position that there was room for character development in Fukkatsu no F which went partially (or mostly) wasted, but we're talking about a theatrical feature, which all of its typical time restraints, even for a longer one like the recent two. Toriyama said in the build-up for Fukkatsu no F that this time around he wanted a lot more fighting time than in BoG, and within just one Movie or Special you can't have both (extremely in-depth character development and a lot of fighting time as well) at the same time. You need a TV series of episodes for that, and that's exactly the purpose DBSuper is, or should be, serving in the first (previously estimated by many of us) 24/28 episodes it will take to retell both BoG and Fukkatsu no F as arcs within the series.

On a completely personal note, being a hardcore Vegeta fan, watching Vegeta beat the shit out of Freeza with his bare hands without the help of anyone, face-to-face, in a direct and badass manner, gave me as much satisfaction as watching Bardock finally beat, if not Freeza himself, then one of his ancestors, because of the deep way the viewer, especially a Vegeta fan, sympathizes with, shares and really feels for the humiliation and hopelessness experienced by Vegeta at the hands of Freeza in episodes 85 and 86 over two decades ago (in real-word time, I mean). That alone, that minute alone, made it more than worth enough to sit through the entire movie. But it also goes far beyond that, it features the final, full-fledged return of the arguably the most charismatic and dramatic villain in the whole franchise after numerous cameos in the Cell and Majin Buu arcs in DBZ and in Movies and Specials. It developed upon the potential of Beerus and Whis as a character, especially by having the latter show off his previously unseen martial arts moves while training Goku and Vegeta, going as far as dominating them miserably despite their absolutely massive power and proceeding to point out their respective flaws. It features the achievement/development of a new, further Super Saiya-jin stage beyond Super Saiya-jin God, and it serves the purpose (which DBSuper will complete) of having Vegeta finally not only fully catching up with Goku, but also surpassing everyone who was above him throughout the Majin Buu arc and become the main (co-)protagonist and hero in the franchise, and the main character alongside Goku and, arguably, Beerus. It also shows us and expands upon the connection between Beerus and Freeza, which is a fantastic thing because there are lots of previously identified similarities between them.

All of this will obviously be expanded upon in a much more detailed way in DBSuper, for obvious reasons, and we'll get to see events which happened off-screen between BoG and Fukkatsu no F, namely Vegeta achieving Super Saiya-jin God himself, Freeza training, Goku's and Vegeta's decision to train under Whis, and just why and how both of them decided and/or managed to achieve/develop a further stage by undergoing Super Saiya-jin God Super Saiya-jin. All of these should be, and I'm certain they will be, given the proper attention and screen time in DBSuper.

It could be argued whether or not deciding to have a respectful chunk of the first full-fledged TV series in 18 years dedicated to retell events which we've already been presented to, with some minor changes and additions here and there, was the right way to go, but if Toriyama just reasoned "since we're going for an entire series, I might as well present the viewers with the actual way I wanted the entire sequence of events I wrote for BoG and Fukkatsu no F the way I originally intended, which I couldn't do in the movies because I had to cut a lot of stuff", then the fans who are still unhappy or disappointed with the retelling of BoG and Fukkatsu no F can still be appeased by the fact that at least it's just the first portion of the series, and we could look at both the Beerus an the Freeza arcs as the build-up to the real, entirely new, previously unseen introduction of a (set of) new character(s), stage(s) and event(s).

[FutureGohanSSJ2]

The problem wasn't killing an enemy, it was taking fights seriously from the start and not treating everything like a test for himself. It didn't "force" a flaw onto him, that flaw existed in-series. That also ignores the plain and simple fact that Goku and Vegeta are Saiyans. As such they value their ability and skill as a singular warrior above all else. So of course they'd hate the idea of having to work together, especially as a good chunk of their relationship is competitive toward one another.

His overconfidence was already a problem that was addressed with his training with Mr. Popo. Later in the Namek arc, Goku scolds Burter and Jeice for letting their guards down and being so cocky. In Battle of Gods, he's rightfully cocky because he's one of the strongest in the universe but he quickly humbles himself the moment he loses. But now suddenly he's cocky again? This is character regression, the series has plenty of character regression but that doesn't mean we should tolerate it.

It doesn't matter if they're Saiyans. The movie starts off with their training and says that together they could be a force to be reckoned with. We, as the audience, then expect to see a threat where Goku and Vegeta can only win if they put aside their differences and learn to work together, or at least agree to work together in the future if the time ever demands for it. This doesn't happen. The movie opens up character flaws and then never bothers to address them. There is zero character development in this movie. There are only forced flaws that are somewhat quickly resolved to give off the illusion of character development.

1. He's a Saiyan> And yes, that matters. They're a naturally cocky and self-assured species.

2. Cockiness wasn't his problem, it was that he didn't take his fight seriously anymore because Freeza had been weakened to the point of being unable to hurt him anymore. He ceased paying attention to his surroundings, forgot that Freeza still had an ally on the field, and never accounted for the idea that he may possibly be capable of injuring him. His problem wasn't that he let his guard down because "tee-hee I'm so strong", but he let his guard down because "you're beaten, it's over, you couldn't even hurt me now" to an enemy not only known for being cunning, but who was still capable of ending it all. Which is what happened with Vegeta as well. Had he simply ended Freeza as opposed to feeling the need to taunt him, the planet never would have gone boom. How the hell can I see these things and other people can't, this is ridiculous.

And sure, you could sit here all day and spout about how the idea of them needing to work together goes no where...

Or.

OR.

ORRRRRRRRRRR.

There COULD BE MORE STORY COMING. You know, just a thought.

[sintzu]

On a completely personal note, being a hardcore Vegeta fan, watching Vegeta beat the shit out of Freeza with his bare hands without the help of anyone, face-to-face, in a direct and badass manner, gave me much satisfaction because of the deep way the viewer, especially a Vegeta fan, sympathizes with, shares and really feels for the humiliation and hopelessness experienced by Vegeta at the hands of Freeza in episodes 85 and 86 over two decades ago. That alone, that minute alone, made it more than worth enough to sit through the entire movie.

That's something I always wanted to see but thought at the time it would never happen and I've always wanted to see Vegeta beat a main villain so to get that and to have that villain be Freeza of all villains,the one I thought him laying a hand on would never happen in a million years ? that more then makes up for whatever shortcomings the movie has and I can't wait to see how they expand on it in Super.

In terms of Super,I think Freeza will send a shock wave down to earth before getting killed by Vegeta who'll join Goku and the others before the planet blows up then they'll go to Namek to use their dragon balls to wish earth back only to find out that they were either used or taken by Champa which leads them to go to u6 in search of the super dragon balls.