Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[ahill1]

Gogeta SSJ4 GT would one - shot Whiss IMO

[Blackstripe]

Updated the Vegeta/Beerus power levels in the BoG section of my list, to line up with the recent episode of Super. It's crazy to think Vegeta had that much power hidden away, but...well, honestly, Dragon Ball is full of crazy stuff like that.

It also makes you think: Vegeta didn't bring that power out when Cell killed Future Trunks, whom he bonded with for a year in the RoSaT. But Beerus merely slapping Bulma?

Damn.

Also puts into perspective just how close GT Gogeta's strength is to Beerus' now.

Well, I always put him in the quadrillions with the Gods anyhow.

But I didn't change Vegetto, since the implication is that Vegeta surpassed their fused form, somehow.

[ekrolo2]

Updated the Vegeta/Beerus power levels in the BoG section of my list, to line up with the recent episode of Super. It's crazy to think Vegeta had that much power hidden away, but...well, honestly, Dragon Ball is full of crazy stuff like that.

It also makes you think: Vegeta didn't bring that power out when Cell killed Future Trunks, whom he bonded with for a year in the RoSaT. But Beerus merely slapping Bulma?

Damn.

Also puts into perspective just how close GT Gogeta's strength is to Beerus' now.

Well, I always put him in the quadrillions with the Gods anyhow.

But I didn't change Vegetto, since the implication is that Vegeta surpassed their fused form, somehow.

That's some GT level power ups right there lol.

[Kaboom]

Okay, I thought I'd take a whack at making up some power levels for a combination of Super and the new movies. Ready? The numbers are in units of millions, to avoid flooding the post with excessive zeroes.

Spoiler:

Goku: 80
--- Super Saiyan 3: 32,000
Vegeta: 80
-- Super Saiyan 2: 8,000
Gohan: 70
- Super Saiyan: 3,500
-- Super Saiyan 2: 6,000
--- Ultimate: 120,000

• {Goku and Vegeta are self-explanatory. Gohan's lost SS2 power since the Cell Games from lack of training, but the "Ultimate" power-up shoots him ahead of everyone.}

Majin Boo: 13,000
Evil Boo: 80,000
+ Gotenks: 180,000
+ Gohan: 200,000
Pure Boo: 30,000

• {Fat Boo is a little more than twice SS2 Gohan's power. Evil Boo's a lot stronger, and his power more than doubles through absorptions. Pure Boo is a match for SS3 Goku.}

Gotenks: 130
- Super Saiyan: 6,500
Gotenks (post-RoSaT): 260
- Super Saiyan: 13,000
--- Super Saiyan 3: 100,000

Vegetto: 8,000
-- Super Saiyan: 400,000

• {Gotenks' best is weaker than Vegeta before the RoSaT (as D7 suggests), but afterwards he's capable of matching Fat Boo at SS1 and Evil Boo at SS3. I arbitrarily chose a fitting level for Vegetto, where he's a lot stronger than Gohan-Boo and could toy with him, rather than expecting a tough fight like he suggested. Gogeta would be moderately weaker, probably needing SS2 or SS3 to defeat the stronger Boo forms.}

Now for the real meat...

Spoiler:

Beerus: 1,000,000
- Vs SS3 Goku (5%): 50,000
-- Vs Raging Vegeta (10%): 100,000
--- Vs SS God Goku (50-70%): 500,000-700,000

• {Here we have Beerus right at the level of one trillion, neatly corresponding with the "10" number Toriyama assigned to him. 5% of his power is all he needs to easily evade Goku. He has fun using 10% against angry Vegeta. He ends up using about 70% of his power against Super Saiyan God Goku, once the both of them fight seriously.}

Goku: 90
- Super Saiyan 3: 36,000
-- +4 Super Saiyans' power: 300,000
--- Super Saiyan God: 600,000

• {Goku's moderately stronger from 4 years of on-again off-again training, but without Super Saiyan he's still noticeably weaker than Freeza (120), as Beerus noted. At Super Saiyan 3, Beerus kicks his butt with roughly 5% of his full power. Simply adding the other Super Saiyans' power to his own doesn't make him close to strong enough to fight Beerus. But with Videl and Pan in the mix making him an actual Super Saiyan God, he gives 70% Beerus an enjoyable fight.}

Hypothetical Vegetto: 9,000
-- Super Saiyan: 450,000

• {In both versions of the story, Goku supposes that even merging with Vegeta probably wouldn't be enough to defeat Beerus. If Vegetto's strength increases in proportion with Goku and Vegeta's, then he's right.}

Vegeta: 90,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 9,000
----- Raging: 90,000

• {Vegeta's on-par with Goku in the forms they both possess. When Bulma gets slapped, Vegeta's ensuing rage boost gives him enough power to land a few blows on 10% Beerus, who despite having fun uses some higher amount of power to KO him afterwards.

Gotenks: 200,000
- Super Saiyan: 10,000
-- (Super Saiyan 3: N/A)

• {Maybe Goten and Trunks, and thus also Gotenks, lost power from lack of training. Maybe they didn't. Doesn't really matter, since he hasn't used anything more than Super Saiyan 1 in either version of the story. It's possible he lost use of Super Saiyan 3 somehow.}

Gohan (BoG): 50
- Super Saiyan: 2,500
-- Black-haired Super Saiyan: 2,500

Gohan (Super): 60
-- Ultimate: 40,000
-- Super Saiyan: 80,000

• {In Battle of Gods, Gohan was originally drawn as a Super Saiyan, and the course of the battle suggests he was written that way too. In Super, however, he seems to be using Ultimate for realsies this time, although he was less impressive than raging Vegeta and the preview for Episode 9 shows him using Super Saiyan again for the Super Saiyan God ritual anyway. So I'm going to make use of my favored theory that his "way beyond limits" power-up is rapidly deteriorating and now split up between Ultimate as his "base" and Super Saiyan on top of it.}

Spoiler:

Sorbet: 2,000
Tagoma: 20,000
Shisami: 20,000 -> 1,000,000,000
Freeza's army: 500-1,000

Jaco: 3,000
Muten Roshi: 5,000
Tenshinhan: 115,000
Kuririn: 140,000

• {These numbers are NOT in units of millions. Sorbet's chosen level is arbitrary, based mostly on him seeming like more brains than brawn. Tagoma and Shisami start out on-par with Zarbon and Dodoria. Tagoma doesn't get a chance to get any stronger, but I'm going to assume Shisami did, and by a lot, letting him exchange some blows with Piccolo. It makes more sense to me than the other two options; either that Piccolo has been mysteriously reduced to that level, or that he's SO tired that his performance is stuck there. The rest of Freeza's army vary in strength but are overall weak.
  
  I'll assume Jaco's improved in the past 30 years, since although his combat involved a lot of evasion and traps, he DID still directly fight and beat plenty of soldiers. Muten Roshi's definitely improved; Toriyama said he could have been this strong all along if he really wanted, and the idea of him training behind the scenes makes me smile.
  
  Tenshinhan is still weaker than Kuririn. Nyeh.}

Gohan: 60
- Super Saiyan: 3,000
Piccolo: 2,000

• {It remains to be seen how Super will do things, but it seems like Resurrection F went the same way Battle of Gods originally did. Gohan's "Ultimate" form has been taken away, and he's been reverted to an even less potent version of his Boo-arc self who can barely even still go Super Saiyan. But when he does, he's still strong enough to save Piccolo by KO'ing Shisami in one blow.}

Beerus: 1,000,000
Whis: 1,500,000

• {Equivalent to 10 and 15, just like the man said. Whis is able to easily evade and punk beyond-god Goku and Vegeta at the same time, although his instinct-based fighting style probably has a lot to do with it.}

Goku: 350,000
- Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan: 700,000
Vegeta: 350,000
- Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan: 700,000

Freeza: 50,000
- True Form: 200,000
-- Golden Freeza: 800,000
--- Tired: 500,000-

• {The top powers of all three of these guys are based on the point that Goku and Vegeta together could fight evenly with Beerus, but none of them alone are a match for him. Other than that, it's mostly arbitrary. True-form Freeza gets his butt kicked by beyond-god Goku, but then has an edge over SSGSS Goku. But his power quickly drains away after some time, down to the point where both SSGSS Goku and Vegeta can kick his ass.}

Alright, I think that's about everything. What do y'all think?

[Zelvin]

I don't really wanna say numbers. What I wanted to say on the whole Beerus using 10% against Rage SS2 Vegeta is that people will of course say that, in BoG, Beerus stated he used 70% against SSG Goku. So people will suggest that SSG is only 7x stronger than RSS2 Vegeta. But we don't really have the context for it. That 1% in the scale of a God could be a 1000x multiplier difference in ability between a God and everyone who isn't one. And all Beerus said was that he was using 1/10th of his strength, and he rather hilariously stomped Vegeta anyway. Not unlike how 50% Freeza on Namek was slapping Goku around, despite Goku constantly using Kaiokenx5. Freeza was still easily 4x stronger even with Goku using that and we can make the comparison that Beerus was easily that much stronger than Vegeta and, more than likely, by a greater degree.

By the end of it, Vegeta even outright admitted he failed and Beerus was completely unharmed. He was, perhaps, momentarily surprised by Vegeta's rise in strength. But it wasn't enough to cause any kind of damage and once the surprise was gone, Beerus no-sold the rest of Vegeta's attacks. So I really don't feel we can give clear numerical differences on their power for Episode 8 of DBS. Even all I can see coming from it is a lot of speculation.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Gotenks (post-RoSaT): 260,000
- Super Saiyan: 13,000

Super Saiyan makes you 20x weaker?

[Doctor.]

Gotenks (post-RoSaT): 260,000
- Super Saiyan: 13,000

Super Saiyan makes you 20x weaker?

Pretty sure he meant to put Gotenks at 260.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I realize that. It was supposed to be a humorous way of pointing that out.

[Doctor.]

I'm a party pooper.

[Noah]

Mutenroshi with 5000 PL? For realsies?

[Kaboom]

Mutenroshi with 5000 PL? For realsies?

Yep, for totally realsies. He still pales in comparison to the younger Earthlings in the fight, but he was doing pretty damn well against all those Freeza soldiers.

[Noah]

Thank you!

Yakon was a bit difficult for me to place, I'll admit. Kaoshin needs to be stronger than Piccolo, but he was terrified of going one-on-one with Yakon. Yakon also had no trouble eating Gokuu's SSJ1 power, but exploded when he tried the same with his SSJ2 power...so that was my reasoning for putting him there.

As for Vegetto, I wanted to include some GT stuff as a reference, and I remembered that Super Vegetto > SSJ4 Goku, but Base GT Goku also = Mr. Buu at the very least. The multipliers basically took care of the rest.

I don't think Piccolo is weaker than Kaioshin but that is debatable, I always though Piccolo's shock was about feeling something weird about him.

And I said that your Base Vegetto is way to high... I see Base Vegetto below Ultimate Gohan, mostly because I don't consider anime filler

Mutenroshi with 5000 PL? For realsies?

Yep, for totally realsies. He still pales in comparison to the younger Earthlings in the fight, but he was doing pretty damn well against all those Freeza soldiers.

That doesn't confirm anything... So Roshi for so long in DB, DBZ had 139 PL and then he trained alone and surpassed Nappa? Neither humans could do that after Kamisama training, let alone by themselves

[RandomGuy96]

Okay, I thought I'd take a whack at making up some power levels for a combination of Super and the new movies. Ready? The numbers are in units of millions, to avoid flooding the post with excessive zeroes.

Spoiler:

Goku: 80
--- Super Saiyan 3: 32,000
Vegeta: 80
-- Super Saiyan 2: 8,000
Gohan: 60
- Super Saiyan: 3,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 6,000
--- Ultimate: 120,000

• {Goku and Vegeta are self-explanatory. Gohan's lost power since the Cell Games from lack of training, but the "Ultimate power-up shoots him ahead of everyone.}

Majin Boo: 13,000
Evil Boo: 90,000
+ Gotenks: 190,000
+ Gohan: 210,000
Pure Boo: 30,000

• {Fat Boo is a little more than twice SS2 Gohan's power. Evil Boo's a lot stronger, and his power more than doubles through absorptions. Pure Boo is a match for SS3 Goku.}

Gotenks: 130
- Super Saiyan: 6,500
Gotenks (post-RoSaT): 260,000
- Super Saiyan: 13,000
--- Super Saiyan 3: 100,000

Vegetto: 8,000
-- Super Saiyan: 400,000

• {Gotenks' best is weaker than Vegeta before the RoSaT (as D7 suggests), but afterwards he's capable of matching Fat Boo at SS1 and Evil Boo at SS3. I arbitrarily chose a fitting level for Vegetto, where he's a lot stronger than Gohan-Boo and could toy with him, rather than expecting a tough fight like he suggested. Gogeta would be moderately weaker, probably needing SS2 or SS3 to defeat the stronger Boo forms.}

Now for the real meat...

Spoiler:

Beerus: 1,000,000
- Vs SS3 Goku (5%): 50,000
-- Vs Raging Vegeta (10%): 100,000
--- Vs SS God Goku (50-70%): 500,000-700,000

• {Here we have Beerus right at the level of one trillion, neatly corresponding with the "10" number Toriyama assigned to him. 5% of his power is all he needs to easily evade Goku. He has fun using 10% against angry Vegeta. He ends up using about 70% of his power against Super Saiyan God Goku, once the both of them fight seriously.}

Goku: 90
- Super Saiyan 3: 36,000
-- +4 Super Saiyans' power: 300,000
--- Super Saiyan God: 600,000

• {Goku's moderately stronger from 4 years of on-again off-again training, but without Super Saiyan he's still noticeably weaker than Freeza (120), as Beerus noted. At Super Saiyan 3, Beerus kicks his butt with roughly 5% of his full power. Simply adding the other Super Saiyans' power to his own doesn't make him close to strong enough to fight Beerus. But with Videl and Pan in the mix making him an actual Super Saiyan God, he gives 70% Beerus an enjoyable fight.}

Hypothetical Vegetto: 9,000
-- Super Saiyan: 450,000

• {In both versions of the story, Goku supposes that even merging with Vegeta probably wouldn't be enough to defeat Beerus. If Vegetto's strength increases in proportion with Goku and Vegeta's, then he's right.}[/size]
  Vegeta: 90,000
  -- Super Saiyan 2: 9,000
  ----- Raging: 90,000
  
  • {Vegeta's on-par with Goku in the forms they both possess. When Bulma gets slapped, Vegeta's ensuing rage boost gives him enough power to land a few blows on 10% Beerus, who despite having fun uses some higher amount of power to KO him afterwards.
  Gotenks: 200,000
  - Super Saiyan: 10,000
  -- (Super Saiyan 3: N/A)
  
  • {Maybe Goten, Goten, and thus Gotenks lost power from lack of training, maybe they didn't. Doesn't really matter, since he hasn't used anything more than Super Saiyan 1 in either version of the story. It's possible he lost use of Super Saiyan 3 somehow.}
  Gohan (BoG): 50
  - Super Saiyan: 2,500
  -- Black-haired Super Saiyan: 2,500
  
  Gohan (Super): 60
  -- Ultimate: 45,000
  -- Super Saiyan: 90,000
  • {In Battle of Gods, Gohan was originally drawn as a Super Saiyan, and the course of the battle suggests he was written that way too. In Super, however, he seems to be using Ultimate for realsies this time, although he was less impressive than raging Vegeta and the preview for Episode 9 shows him using Super Saiyan again for the Super Saiyan God ritual anyway. So I'm going to make use of my favored theory that his "way beyond limits" power-up is rapidly deteriorating and now split up between Ultimate as his "base" and Super Saiyan on top of it.}

Spoiler:

Sorbet: 2,000
Tagoma: 20,000
Shisami: 20,000 -> 1,000,000,000
Freeza's army: 500-1,000

Jaco: 3,000
Muten Roshi: 5,000
Tenshinhan: 115,000
Kuririn: 140,000

• {These numbers are NOT in units of millions. Sorbet's chosen level is arbitrary, based mostly on him seeming like more brains than brawn. Tagoma and Shisami start out on-par with Zarbon and Dodoria. Tagoma doesn't get a chance to get any stronger, but I'm going to assume Shisami did, and by a lot, letting him exchange some blows with Piccolo. It makes more sense to me than the other two options; either that Piccolo has been mysteriously reduced to that level, or that he's SO tired that his performance is stuck there. The rest of Freeza's army vary in strength but are overall weak.
  
  I'll assume Jaco's improved in the past 30 years, since although his combat involved a lot of evasion and traps, he DID still directly fight and beat plenty of soldiers. Muten Roshi's definitely improved; Toriyama said he could have been this strong all along if he really wanted, and the idea of him training behind the scenes makes me smile.
  
  Tenshinhan is still weaker than Kuririn. Nyeh.}

Gohan: 60
- Super Saiyan: 3,000
Piccolo: 2,000

• {It remains to be seen how Super will do things, but it seems like Resurrection F went the same way Battle of Gods originally did. Gohan's "Ultimate" form has been taking away, and he's been reverted to an even less potent version of his Boo-arc self who can barely even still go Super Saiyan. But when he does, he's strong enough to save Piccolo by KO'ing Shisami in one blow.}

Beerus: 1,000,000
Whis: 1,500,000

• {Equivalent to 10 and 15, just like the man said. Whis is able to easily evade and punk beyond-god Goku and Vegeta at the same time, although his instinct-based fighting style probably has a lot to do with it.}

Goku: 350,000
- Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan: 700,000
Vegeta: 350,000
- Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan: 700,000

Freeza: 50,000
- True Form: 200,000
-- Golden Freeza: 800,000
--- Tired: 500,000-

• {The top powers of all three of these guys are based on the point that Goku and Vegeta together could fight evenly with Beerus, but none of them alone are a match for him. Other than that, it's mostly arbitrary. True-form Freeza gets his butt kicked by beyond-god Goku, but then has an edge over SSGSS Goku. But his power quickly drains away after some time, down to the point where both SSGSS Goku and Vegeta can kick his ass.}

Alright, I think that's about everything. What do y'all think?

Heeeeey, you didn't arbitrarily make 1st form Freeza SS3 Gotenks-tier or, rate Super Vegetto as dozens of times stronger than Buuhan, or rate 4th form Freeza above every Buu arc character, or rate Beerus as a thousand times stronger than SS3 Goku, or rate Gogeta as several times stronger than Gotenks! I'm liking it already. Anyway...

Buu arc: I highly disagree with SS Gotenks being so weak (especially if he's just gonna arbitrarily get super-powerful after two weeks of training anyway), but that's a topic for another day. I wonder why you have Evil Boo, Gotenks, and Gohan so relatively close together- IMO, the difference in power between Gohan and Boo should be a lot higher than the difference between Gohan and Gotenks-Boo, since Gohan was able to last over 20 minutes against the latter despite him explicitly saying "I won't screw around". Also, Gohan didn't lose any power in his base/SS form; according to Daizenshuu 7, his power-drop was due to not being able to tap into his dormant strength with rage.

BOG:
-Are you working under the assumption that Vegetto can't go Super Saiyan 3? Because, as you rate Beerus, he would be able to defeat Super Vegetto or SS2 Vegetto, but would be no match for SS3 Vegetto (unless SS boosts work differently for fusions- which is implied a few times, but doesn't seem to be what you're going with). Even if that is the case (and it doesn't seem to be, since you said Gogeta could go SS3...), why would Goku treat going god as the absolute biggest power-up ever, when even SS2 Vegetto is stronger than that? Or are you assuming he was only talking about Gogeta? If so, why?

-Why did Goten and Trunks drop in power so quickly? Officially, doing no training for 7 years didn't decrease Gohan's power at all. Piccolo Daimao did no training for hundreds of years and aged into a geezer, yet officially he only went from 260 to around 220. Yet, Goten apparently dropped from 260 to 220 in just four years, while growing up normally?

-My working theory right now for Ultimate Gohan is similar to yours (at least, by BOG/faff/Super logic; the manga contradicts the idea that his power just fades). His power didn't just disappear out of the blue, it was steadily fading. So, BOG Gohan wouldn't be anywhere near as strong as Boo arc Gohan. Yes, he was probably written as a SS/SS2, but that's my attempt to justify it. I'm unsure where exactly BOG Gohan falls power-wise though. You could say he has to be stronger than Mr. Buu at least, since he attacked Beerus after Mr. Buu clearly failed... but this is the same movie where Tenshinhan attacked Beerus after seeing that same scene. Vegeta saying Beerus is way stronger than he thought after he takes out everyone also means someone at the party must have been stronger than SS3 Goku, but it's probably supposed to be Gotenks rather than Gohan.

-If Super Saiyan Gohan is now much stronger than Ultimate Gohan, why didn't Gohan use Super Saiyan against Beerus?

faff:
-How is Piccolo twice as strong as Shisami? In that case he'd have been able to take out Shisami in one blow. Instead, he was clearly getting his ass kicked.
-You really think two 7s could stalemate and possibly defeat a 10? I'd probably bump them up by just a little bit... that seems too close to the difference between Burter/Jeice and Ginyu's prediction of Goku.
-I think "tired Freeza" is a bit high. Consider that his punch did absolutely nothing to SSGSS Goku, even though he was worn out as well by that point. Also consider that a healthy, fresh SSGSS was able to walk through dozens of his attacks and not even get slightly bothered.

[ZombieVito]

We have the same level for Vegetto Kaboom, nice.

But I have to disagree in Whis, Beerus and Godku placement. Does Goku's "I didn't think a level like this existed or something like that " line fits with him being that close to Vegetto?

[Kaboom]

That doesn't confirm anything... So Roshi for so long in DB, DBZ had 139 PL and then he trained alone and surpassed Nappa? Neither humans could do that after Kamisama training, let alone by themselves

Roshi's power reading of 139 during the early Saiyan arc was roughly 20 years before Resurrection F. If he's been training, a PL of a few thousand is totally possible, especially in his buff form. Either way, take it up with Toriyama instead of me.

Buu arc: I highly disagree with SS Gotenks being so weak (especially if he's just gonna arbitrarily get super-powerful after two weeks of training anyway), but that's a topic for another day. I wonder why you have Evil Boo, Gotenks, and Gohan so relatively close together- IMO, the difference in power between Gohan and Boo should be a lot higher than the difference between Gohan and Gotenks-Boo, since Gohan was able to last over 20 minutes against the latter despite him explicitly saying "I won't screw around". Also, Gohan didn't lose any power in his base/SS form; according to Daizenshuu 7, his power-drop was due to not being able to tap into his dormant strength with rage.

Hey, it's me. When have I ever cared about "gaps?" As for Gohan's depreciated power... I forgot about that. It could be easily adjusted (and I think I do have it that way in my core PLs list) but it's not really important and doesn't change anything in the end. Not sure why I even included anything but his Ultimate power.

BOG:
-Are you working under the assumption that Vegetto can't go Super Saiyan 3? Because, as you rate Beerus, he would be able to defeat Super Vegetto or SS2 Vegetto, but would be no match for SS3 Vegetto (unless SS boosts work differently for fusions- which is implied a few times, but doesn't seem to be what you're going with). Even if that is the case (and it doesn't seem to be, since you said Gogeta could go SS3...), why would Goku treat going god as the absolute biggest power-up ever, when even SS2 Vegetto is stronger than that? Or are you assuming he was only talking about Gogeta? If so, why?

It'd be more apt to say I'm not making ANY assumptions about Vegetto and SS3. Until we're shown or told that he would definitely be capable of it, it's just hypothetical and I don't see a point in making it a factor. Even Super Saiyan 2 Vegetto was never a thing, so Goku's god-form IS his biggest power-up to date by a good margin. Heck, even saying the Fusion in question is Vegetto instead of Gogeta is an assumption in itself. All in all, I just chose to minimize the assumptions in this department and concern myself only with the Goku/Vegeta Fusion we actually saw.

-Why did Goten and Trunks drop in power so quickly? Officially, doing no training for 7 years didn't decrease Gohan's power at all. Piccolo Daimao did no training for hundreds of years and aged into a geezer, yet officially he only went from 260 to around 220. Yet, Goten apparently dropped from 260 to 220 in just four years, while growing up normally?

Good point, but it's kind of the same deal as with base/SS/SS2 Gohan's power above. Gotenks never used anything more than SS1 in either version, so it doesn't make a difference.

-If Super Saiyan Gohan is now much stronger than Ultimate Gohan, why didn't Gohan use Super Saiyan against Beerus?

The boy ain't right. But more serious answer, maybe he got pwned before he realized he'd need it.

RoF:
-How is Piccolo twice as strong as Shisami? In that case he'd have been able to take out Shisami in one blow. Instead, he was clearly getting his ass kicked.
-You really think two 7s could stalemate and possibly defeat a 10? I'd probably bump them up by just a little bit... that seems too close to the difference between Burter/Jeice and Ginyu's prediction of Goku.
-I think "tired Freeza" is a bit high. Consider that his punch did absolutely nothing to SSGSS Goku, even though he was worn out as well by that point. Also consider that a healthy, fresh SSGSS was able to walk through dozens of his attacks and not even get slightly bothered.

— Piccolo and Shisami's difference is another mostly arbitrary thing. I guess that's just the result of combining Shisami's performance, Piccolo's fatigue, and Piccolo saying "I've got this," at least in the dubbed version. Like the other things above, either level could be adjusted without anything really changing.

But I have to disagree in Whis, Beerus and Godku placement. Does Goku's "I didn't think a level like this existed or something like that " line fits with him being that close to Vegetto?

If suddenly I could travel at 80 miles per hour just by running instead of driving my truck, I'd be likewise surprised that such a thing was possible. Doesn't mean it wasn't feasible through other means before. Get what I mean? Besides, I actually lowered my estimate of Super Vegetto to keep him as far from Godku as comfortably possible.

[ahill1]

To Kaboom:

Why do you think Gotenks SSJ3 stronger than Super Buu?

Golden Freeza is stronger than Goku SSJGS ? It's stated?

Also i don't think 2 warriors at 70 could fight evenly with a warrior at 100.

Overall great list!

[Blackstripe]

Besides, I actually lowered my estimate of Super Vegetto to keep him as far from Godku as comfortably possible.

Oh, the irony for me.

Know what inspired me to put Vegetto, even in base so high in my power level list?

You listing him as "infinity", and "infinity x50" in your old list!

So, I had Vegetto, even in base, with a power that might as well have been infinitely stronger than the next closest fighter (Buuhan). I still maintain this is perfectly plausible...it's just that Rageta somehow blew it all out of the water. Does it make sense for him to have that hidden power inside of him?

Well, it makes about as much sense as Gotenks becoming worlds stronger in a week, and people don't seem to have a problem with that.

Point is...yeah, it's dumb. "THAT'S MY BULMA!!!" = stronger than Vegetto seems like a fanfiction written by a rabid Vegeta x Bulma fangirl. But we've had absurd stuff like that before in Dragon Ball.

[Kaboom]

Why do you think Gotenks SSJ3 stronger than Super Buu?
Golden Freeza is stronger than Goku SSJGS ? It's stated?
Also i don't think 2 warriors at 70 could fight evenly with a warrior at 100.

— Mainly because of how Gotenks relentlessly pummeled him once he got serious and was seconds away from finishing him off. It's possible based on what Boo said later that he was trying to bide for time, but it sure looks to me like he bit off a bit more than he could chew.
— It's very strongly suggested. Goku's on the losing side of the fight at first, even admitting he's in trouble.
— They can if the story calls for it because "gaps" are baloney. But the main reason they're not higher is because of Freeza being stronger than them individually but also not a match for Beerus on his own.

Besides, I actually lowered my estimate of Super Vegetto to keep him as far from Godku as comfortably possible.

Oh, the irony for me. Know what inspired me to put Vegetto, even in base so high in my power level list? You listing him as "infinity", and "infinity x50" in your old list!

Yeah, the main non-jokey reasons I did that were 1) I didn't even want to hint at some sort of "Fusion Multiplier," and 2) there was nobody stronger than Vegetto to merit giving him a number for comparison. But the latter has changed, and this is the first time I've had a reason to make up a number for him. Though technically, he could still be even stronger. The only nigh-fact about him is that Beerus is stronger than him, so he could be closer to Godku without really contradicting anything.

[Analytical Delusion]

It's probably been addressed here before, but how do you guys deal with that comment by Piccolo in the ROSAT about Gotenks having a chance in base state, without knowing at the time that he could transform after fusing? Is this statement incompatible with a 50x multiplier for SSJ without Gotenks getting ridiculously stronger from training for the equivalent of I believe a couple of weeks?

I guess we can handwave it to Goten and Trunks having higher growth rates than Gohan (maybe due to being conceived when their fathers had already attained SSJ) and so gaining a ton more from the ROSAT. Or maybe, like Goku/Gohan training together as SSJ and making massive gains due to the strain of the state, training while as Gotenks made them much stronger. It's also possible that fusion is a nonlinear gain (maybe something like [2x]^2), so they don't need to be dozens of times stronger than Goku/Vegeta/Gohan while they are all in base states.

[Kaboom]

It's probably been addressed here before, but how do you guys deal with that comment by Piccolo in the ROSAT about Gotenks having a chance in base state, without knowing at the time that he could transform after fusing?

Easiest hand-wave answer is that he's just desperate for hope and overreacting. But a better answer I've taken a liking to is that he may have expected them to go Super Saiyan, become disheartened when they didn't and it appeared they couldn't, and then became optimistic again when they revealed they could.