Why The Cell Arc Is Overrated.

[Big Green The Yoshi]

Cell Arc was alright considering what Toriyama had to come up with on the spot, but it does get overrated and also has a weak start. Here's why:

Freeza, the best villain in the entire series, gets fodderized by an apparent nobody Super Saiyan who even implies he could one shot Freeza's Full Power state, and Freeza's father is also treated as a joke who is also weaker than Freeza.
Gero's existence was not implied in the slightest, he came out of nowhere, and was an obvious asspull.
#19 and #20 were quite possibly a lot stronger than Freeza yet Gero had no knowledge of the events on Namek, and later, the Z Fighters kick their cans.
#17 and #18 had no motives other than to d*** around, and they treated the Super Saiyan state like it was nothing, which at the time it was a big deal.
The timeline plotholes are also a notable mention.

It seemed like the Arc was going nowhere until Cell arrived, who I would even say saved that Arc, and even then, Cell, while I like his concept, is not as good of a major villain as, say, Freeza or Piccolo Daimao, the former wanted to become immortal and rule the universe, while the latter wanted to rule the world and leave it in a state of darkness and terror. Cell only wanted to become the strongest in the universe, and what would come after that? What would he do after he blew up the Earth/Solar System? Case in point.

In the end, I would argue the Cell Arc as being one of the three weakest Arcs in all of Dragon Ball along with the Red Ribbon and Boo Arcs. That's my opinion and you can agree or disagree, but I probably won't change it.

[nickzambuto]

Future Trunks da bes

[LuckyCat]

Freeza, the best villain in the entire series, gets fodderized by an apparent nobody Super Saiyan who even implies he could one shot Freeza's Full Power state, and Freeza's father is also treated as a joke who is also weaker than Freeza.

Mind you this was after volumes of Freeza material. Toriyama was trying to turn the expectation of Freeza's return on its head.

Gero's existence was not implied in the slightest, he came out of nowhere, and was an obvious asspull.

Neither was Radditz. It's difficult to add material if you can't allow some poetic license, right?

#19 and #20 were quite possibly a lot stronger than Freeza yet Gero had no knowledge of the events on Namek, and later, the Z Fighters kick their cans.

He (Through his computer) was aware of Trunks though, who like you said was stronger than Freeza.

#17 and #18 had no motives other than to d*** around

They are batteries for Cell. We're supposed to become sympathetic to them as Cell is the real villain.

they treated the Super Saiyan state like it was nothing, which at the time it was a big deal.

It was a big deal at the start, but obviously it can't remain the only strong power or else the series couldn't continue.

The timeline plotholes are also a notable mention.

The writing on this is surprisingly good on this for a children's show. I'm sure we could find just as many plotholes in Back to the Future.

What would he do after he blew up the Earth/Solar System?

Find other strong beings to fight with? Maybe he'd run into Dabura?

[fadeddreams5]

It seemed like the Arc was going nowhere until Cell arrived, who I would even say saved that Arc, and even then, Cell, while I like his concept, is not as good of a major villain as, say, Freeza or Piccolo Daimao, the former wanted to become immortal and rule the universe, while the latter wanted to rule the world and leave it in a state of darkness and terror. Cell only wanted to become the strongest in the universe, and what would come after that? What would he do after he blew up the Earth/Solar System? Case in point.

That's what makes Cell more unique than the other previous villains in this series. He starts out as something straight out of a horror flick. When he reaches his perfect form, his ego goes on overdrive, and all he cares about is showing his perfection to others through combat. If Cell succeeded, he'd continue traveling the galaxy in search of stronger opposition and blowing up every planet he explored, one by one, after he did his thing. Whether or not he became the strongest or met someone who could oppose him, the end result for him would likely be the same: he'd be driven insane by his own perfection or thought of there being someone superior he can never surpass (e.g. Beerus or Whis). Alternatively, if he did meet someone like Beerus, that would be his new purpose: surpassing him and taking his place as the god of destruction. I can definitely see Cell taking that role to further boast about his superiority.

As for every other point you made, they don't really show me why the saga is overrated. You're just telling me bits and pieces that bug you about it. A better way to show me how overrated it is would be by comparing it directly to other, better, sagas.

[TheUltimateVegito]

It seemed like the Arc was going nowhere until Cell arrived, who I would even say saved that Arc, and even then, Cell, while I like his concept, is not as good of a major villain as, say, Freeza or Piccolo Daimao, the former wanted to become immortal and rule the universe, while the latter wanted to rule the world and leave it in a state of darkness and terror. Cell only wanted to become the strongest in the universe, and what would come after that? What would he do after he blew up the Earth/Solar System? Case in point.

That's what makes Cell more unique than the other previous villains in this series. He starts out as something straight out of a horror flick. When he reaches his perfect form, his ego goes on overdrive, and all he cares about is showing his perfection to others through combat. If Cell succeeded, he'd continue traveling the galaxy in search of stronger opposition and blowing up every planet he explored, one by one, after he did his thing. Whether or not he became the strongest or met someone who could oppose him, the end result for him would likely be the same: he'd be driven insane by his own perfect or thought of there being someone superior he can never surpass (e.g. Beerus or Whis). Alternatively, if he did meet someone like Beerus, that would be his new purpose: surpassing him and taking his place as the god of destruction. I can definitely see Cell taking that role to further boast about his superiority.

As for every other point you made, they don't really show me why the saga is overrated. You're just telling me bits and pieces that bug you about it. A better way to show me how overrated it is would be by comparing it directly to other, better, sagas.

Also Perfect Cell is pretty much nega-Goku. Nuff said.

[Cure Dragon 255]

DUDE! What are you talking about? Every 5 minutes a thread about how crappy the Cell arc was is made and a majority agrees. Seriously, I dont love the Cell arc, but these threads have to stop. They have no purpose anymore.


EDIT:Oh the topic creator is new here. Sorry for the harsh words.

[Big Green The Yoshi]

]EDIT:Oh the topic creator is new here. Sorry for the harsh words.

I'm still a well known member in the DBZ community.

[TheUltimateVegito]

Cell Arc was alright considering what Toriyama had to come up with on the spot, but it does get overrated and also has a weak start. Here's why:

Freeza, the best villain in the entire series, gets fodderized by an apparent nobody Super Saiyan who even implies he could one shot Freeza's Full Power state, and Freeza's father is also treated as a joke who is also weaker than Freeza.
Gero's existence was not implied in the slightest, he came out of nowhere, and was an obvious asspull.
#19 and #20 were quite possibly a lot stronger than Freeza yet Gero had no knowledge of the events on Namek, and later, the Z Fighters kick their cans.
#17 and #18 had no motives other than to d*** around, and they treated the Super Saiyan state like it was nothing, which at the time it was a big deal.
The timeline plotholes are also a notable mention.

It seemed like the Arc was going nowhere until Cell arrived, who I would even say saved that Arc, and even then, Cell, while I like his concept, is not as good of a major villain as, say, Freeza or Piccolo Daimao, the former wanted to become immortal and rule the universe, while the latter wanted to rule the world and leave it in a state of darkness and terror. Cell only wanted to become the strongest in the universe, and what would come after that? What would he do after he blew up the Earth/Solar System? Case in point.

In the end, I would argue the Cell Arc as being one of the three weakest Arcs in all of Dragon Ball along with the Red Ribbon and Boo Arcs. That's my opinion and you can agree or disagree, but I probably won't change it.

Nah, in my humble opinion the Cell saga was the best in the series for many reasons. But lets tackle your points shall we?

It added to the shock of Trunks' reveal. It was a great twist because Frieza and King Cold seemed like they were going to be the main baddies of the arc. Also, I really don't get why Frieza fans want there to be an overemphasis on the importance of Frieza's character. Freeza being the emperor of the universe and the eradicator of the Saiyans was great and all, but the narrative never focused on his empire until his saga, and he barely had any effect on Goku's journey up to that point. He's not like Aizen from Bleach who took over 300 episodes to defeat and was link to the majority of battles up to his defeat. Freeza and the Saiyans did make a great backstory though. I'd say Artificial Lifeforms designed to defeat said legendary warriors make for superb candidates to follow up the emperor of the universe. Instead of giving SSJ1 too much importance which would ruin the main theme of the entire series. Nothing is worth ruining that.

Also, with Mecha Frieza I'd say the end more than justifies the means. Mecha Freeza's was basically essential for the Android saga for multiple reasons:

1. It was the most badass/great way to introduce Trunks (and the saga itself, lets not forget this is a brand new saga) - It really showed off Trunks' powers, while showing off how affected Frieza was from his bout with Goku. I loved seeing him so scared at the sight of another Super
Saiyan.

2. It added to Goku's reasoning for staying dead - Frieza coming back, and wanting revenge on Goku clearly affected his decision to stay dead. I'm pretty sure the knowledge of it being Frieza himself rather than just King Cold impacted Goku's decision more, because Goku thought Frieza would learn his lesson after nearly dying on Namek.

3. Cell - Cell was suppose to be the culmination of all the previous villains, and Frieza's cells contributed to that.

4. Goku still defeated Frieza! - The main argument for this is that Frieza's comeback and death by Trunks ruined the impact of his bout with Goku, to them I say why? Frieza was still the first to push Goku to go SSJ (which paved the way for other Super Saiyans, especially Vegeta), Goku still defeated Frieza in his battle on Namek. And lets not forget Goku wanted to spare him. It's easy to believe that Goku held back on his blast, as he was simply reacting to Frieza's blast. I don't see the big deal of Goku not being the one to kill him, it's not like Krillin or Vegeta killed him... It was Vegeta's son! which in itself was an ironic twist (Especially considering the fact that Vegeta declined Nappa's suggestion for producing half-breed Saiyans themselfs) But heck, if you're so keen on thinking Goku must be the one to kill Frieza, he still did! In Trunks' timeline (which was technically the original timeline) Goku killed both Frieza and King Cold.

5. Surviving Planet Namek is a fitting feat for Frieza - Frieza barely survived the Spirit Bomb and still fought at 100%, I'm pretty sure only someone like Frieza (or his species) can do this. Him surviving being sliced in half, blasted and having a planet exploding on him shows just why he is the most feared ruler of the cosmos.

Plus it was a nice little reference to Cyborg Tao Pai Pai.

Saying Dr. Gero came out of nowhere is like saying Raditz came out of nowhere. Dr. Gero was a great foil to Goku's character because of the psychological effect his plan had on him, a privilege no other villain had. He made Goku reflect on his life and believe the earth was safer without him. An unexpected threat like the Androids, who couldn't be sensed, who can steal energy, who spied on Goku throughout his life, who surpassed the strongest beings in the universe through mere earth technology toppled with how Goku has been attracting bad guys throughout his life and is a Saiyan at the core (Can't help but be excited about fighting strong enemies, even when he's scared) would have that effect. Dr. Gero pretty much said that he knows the kind of effect knowing about the Androids origins would have on Goku before revealing their creation was all because of a grudge on Goku, which not only foreshadowed the end of the arc when Goku decides to stay dead, but further adds to the genius of Dr. Gero because he knew all along what kind of psychological effect it'd have on him due to studying Goku throughout his life. It was a superb way to tie the original Dragon Ball to this saga and was the best way to culminate the entire storyline.

#19 and #20 could be weaker than Frieza, but that doesn't matter. Dr. Gero didn't need any data on Namek because he wanted his models to be as strong as possible, even if they already surpass his main target which is similar to how Goku wants to surpass his limits even if he's already surpassed his main target. Also, Dr. Gero cannot regulate the precise power levels of his models.

The whole point of the Androids was that they weren't threatening as Trunks described, which was why Kami was conflicted on the prospect of merging with Piccolo. It was great writing that was all building up to the main treat that is Cell.

You see plotholes, I see genius writing.

Cell was the best Villain due to how he's the culmination of the series up to that point, how he was the true pioneer of the timeline changes, how his personality reflects on the DNA of multiple other characters, with his personality changing with each form. There's a reason why Cell is the only villain in the entire franchise who would host something like the Cell Games while giving the Z-Fighters 10 days to train. The other villains could have appeared at any other time and still be pretty much the same with a few tweaks, but Cell himself appeared at the perfect time (No pun intended) in a storytelling standpoint because Cell's character derives from races and characters and key plot elements that were shown up to his arrival (From World Torunaments to Frieza).

[Lord Beerus]

I certainly see the Cell arc as overrated, but I won't deny the pure amount of plot twists, mystique and unpredictable nature of the arc makes it certainly stand out and worth at least one viewing from beginning to end.

[Cure Dragon 255]

]EDIT:Oh the topic creator is new here. Sorry for the harsh words.

I'm still a well known member in the DBZ community.

I wanted to give you a break, but now that's off, because you should know better then. Cell Arc bashing or criticism(I dont even have much love for the Cell)threads are dime a dozen.

But I digress. I'm still sorry for the harsh words. And I'm glad to meet a prominent member then.

[Big Green The Yoshi]

]EDIT:Oh the topic creator is new here. Sorry for the harsh words.

I'm still a well known member in the DBZ community.

I wanted to give you a break, but now that's off, because you should know better then. Cell Arc bashing or criticism(I dont even have much love for the Cell)threads are dime a dozen.

But I digress. I'm still sorry for the harsh words. And I'm glad to meet a prominent member then.

It's alright. Nice to meet you.

[fadeddreams5]

The Cell saga is literally everything fans of the Piccolo Jr-Frieza sagas could have wanted, only executed in a piss poor manner that's still acceptable because... fuck it. It's awesome and entertaining.

[MajinMan]

I personally think the Cell arc is the least enjoyable in the Z era. I know that it's not overrated here on Kanzenshuu but around the web it is generally considered the best or second best arc in Z. Most would tell you that it's because of Future Trunks and SSJ2 Gohan. I don't know if I would call it overrated because I think that people can like whatever they want and labelling things as "overrated" makes their favorite arc seem like a generic answer compared to yours. If I had to say something, I guess it would be a tiny bit overrated in my opinion. However I won't look at someone differently just because they think my least favorite Z arc is the best.

[Doctor.]

The Cell saga is literally everything fans of the Piccolo Jr-Frieza sagas could have wanted, only executed in a piss poor manner that's still acceptable because... fuck it. It's awesome and entertaining.

No, I think the Freeza arc is everything I, as a fan of the Piccolo Jr - Freeza arcs, wanted.

[fadeddreams5]

The Cell saga is literally everything fans of the Piccolo Jr-Frieza sagas could have wanted, only executed in a piss poor manner that's still acceptable because... fuck it. It's awesome and entertaining.

No, I think the Freeza arc is everything I, as a fan of the Piccolo Jr - Freeza arcs, wanted.

I meant after that!

[Kendamu]

1. Freeza, the best villain in the entire series, gets fodderized by an apparent nobody Super Saiyan who even implies he could one shot Freeza's Full Power state, and Freeza's father is also treated as a joke who is also weaker than Freeza.
2. Gero's existence was not implied in the slightest, he came out of nowhere, and was an obvious asspull.
3. #19 and #20 were quite possibly a lot stronger than Freeza yet Gero had no knowledge of the events on Namek, and later, the Z Fighters kick their cans.
4. #17 and #18 had no motives other than to d*** around, and they treated the Super Saiyan state like it was nothing, which at the time it was a big deal.
5. The timeline plotholes are also a notable mention.

I've numbered your points so it's easier to follow my replies.

1. This is pretty common. Piccolo, the real best villain in the series, gets used as a measuring stick against Raditz. Raditz, through the Saibaimen, gets used as a measuring stick against the protagonists. The protagonists get used as a measuring stick against Nappa. I could go on, but you get the point. If you're only mad about it because your favorite villain also fell victim to this common trope, then maybe you need to step back and take a wider look at the series as a whole.

2. He wasn't out of nowhere. He's a previously nameless remnant of the Red Ribbon Army, which was the villain of a very important arc in Dragon Ball. They've done this with remnants of Freeza's army in more recent material, too.

3. Judging by how easily #19 was disposed of by Super Saiyan Vegeta, they might not have been stronger than Freeza. Data on Freeza didn't exist yet by the time #19 and #20 were complete. Because of this lack-of-information, their only advantages came in their ability to hide and their ability to steal energy. They didn't even know that their opponents could concentrate their energy in bursts. They pretty much played their hand way too early.

4. Refer to point #1 about measuring sticks. Also, their attitudes being much different than the Androids of Trunks' future was a pretty big part of the story and, because they weren't carbon copies of what Trunks experienced, the story was made stronger for it.

5. You might have a point there, but I don't really follow timeline stuff super closely. It's something that's been the focus of many very long threads in the past.

It seemed like the Arc was going nowhere until Cell arrived, who I would even say saved that Arc, and even then, Cell, while I like his concept, is not as good of a major villain as, say, Freeza or Piccolo Daimao, the former wanted to become immortal and rule the universe, while the latter wanted to rule the world and leave it in a state of darkness and terror. Cell only wanted to become the strongest in the universe, and what would come after that? What would he do after he blew up the Earth/Solar System? Case in point.

In the end, I would argue the Cell Arc as being one of the three weakest Arcs in all of Dragon Ball along with the Red Ribbon and Boo Arcs. That's my opinion and you can agree or disagree, but I probably won't change it.

The reason the arc seemed like it was going nowhere is because Toriyama kept being convinced to change the direction it was going in. That's why there are so many villains that he kept having to write. The fact that he pulled all that together as he went along and made it fit in the end is an achievement in its own right.

As for Cell's motives, defeating Goku was the endgame because this was a matter of revenge. When you're out for vengeance against a specific person, the whole focus is on that person. Whatever happens after that is a new chapter. Dr. Gero was insane and solely focused on getting his revenge. So, of course that's why Cell's plan wasn't anything extremely grand like Piccolo or Freeza. To shoehorn world domination into that would've made the story weaker.