Unpopular DB opinions

[ABED]

It's boring, imo. The other movie is another movie; this one is something new. I feel there should be some form of reintroduction and build up to the final battle. Just keeps it more entertaining.

But it's not really, it's the same characters but in a different context. The characters are reintroduced, but there's no need to belabor the point. We get where he's coming from. Coola died, gets resurrected, now he's back for revenge not only for Freeza but for his own defeat. One of my favorite things about Lethal Weapon 2 is that it starts in the middle of the action, causing the audience to play catch up.

It didn't have to start and end with action (i.e. one dragged on fight sequence) just because Namek was in trouble. There doesn't necessarily have to be a moment of peace, but 30+ minutes out of 45 being punch, punch, punch, kick, kick, kick? Meh.

But there is plenty of character and the action comes from character. Usually, I'm with you, which is why I disliked Fury Road so much, but the action isn't all the same in this, there's humor, a simple story, and the action genuinely comes from character.

Even in the longer films, generally, there's about the same ratio of action to set up.

[fadeddreams5]

I just feel it could have all been executed much, much better. I personally consider it among the weakest of the DBZ films (and there's not such high caliber competition there to begin with...).

Oh, and Fury Road was one of my favorite films this year.

[ABED]

I just feel it could have all been executed much, much better. I personally consider it among the weakest of the DBZ films (and there's not such high caliber competition there to begin with...).

Oh, and Fury Road was one of my favorite films this year.

Wait, you loved Fury Road, but apparently a DBZ film that is almost all action and little story (way more than Fury Road's) is a problem? At least Coola's an interesting memorable villain.

[Doctor.]

How is Cooler memorable? He's Freeza with an inferiority complex.

[ABED]

How is Cooler memorable? He's Freeza with an inferiority complex.

Freeza also has an inferiority complex. Coola has a good design, is in one of the better DBZ movies, and is memorable by virtue of being Freeza's brother. I find that much more interesting than anything we got from Evil McEvilson who did evil things because he's evil.

[Doctor.]

How is Cooler memorable? He's Freeza with an inferiority complex.

Freeza also has an inferiority complex. Coola has a good design, is in one of the better DBZ movies, and is memorable by virtue of being Freeza's brother. I find that much more interesting than anything we got from Evil McEvilson who did evil things because he's evil.

But Coola's is never as a plot point used to create an interesting narrative, unlike Freeza's.

Who are you talking about?

[ABED]

How is Cooler memorable? He's Freeza with an inferiority complex.

Freeza also has an inferiority complex. Coola has a good design, is in one of the better DBZ movies, and is memorable by virtue of being Freeza's brother. I find that much more interesting than anything we got from Evil McEvilson who did evil things because he's evil.

But Coola's is never as a plot point used to create an interesting narrative, unlike Freeza's.

Who are you talking about?

I was talking about the villain in the last Mad Max, er... Furiosa movie.

Your writing confusing me "never as a plot point..."? Coola's story is very simple, but easy to understand - he wants revenge. What I think is interesting about his personality is he doesn't even seem to like Freeza much, but when someone kills him, he wants revenge. As a sibling, I find that understandable.

[Doctor.]

Let me put it this way: Freeza's inferiority complex towards the Saiyans was what made him destroy planet Vegeta, which in turn led to the entire story and the big conflict in the Namek arc.

Coola's inferiority complex towards Freeza never led anywhere. Then again, it's been a while since I've watched the movies.

[ABED]

Let me put it this way: Freeza's inferiority complex towards the Saiyans was what made him destroy planet Vegeta, which in turn led to the entire story and the big conflict in the Namek arc.

Coola's inferiority complex towards Freeza never led anywhere. Then again, it's been a while since I've watched the movies.

And the Freeza arc could've happened without him blowing up Vegeta. Kakkarot would've still been sent to Earth, and when Freeza learned about the DB's he would've still gone to Namek. There's a chance that Raditz wouldn't have gone to Earth to get his brother had the other Saiyans not been killed off, but I'm sure he would've come along at some point to retrieve him.

It lead to him going after revenge and getting killed.

[fadeddreams5]

Wait, you loved Fury Road, but apparently a DBZ film that is almost all action and little story (way more than Fury Road's) is a problem? At least Coola's an interesting memorable villain.

Well, yeah! It's a different medium. I loved the setting, atmosphere, eccentricity, and soundtrack of it all. Besides, all that over-the-top action was a means to an ends; they were trying to reach a destination, but were intersected, and thus had to defend themselves. Just one epic car chase. I've personally never seen anything like it before. It was fun.

Obviously, the fact that I've seen animated DBZ action multiple times before will influence my opinion of a DBZ movie that has little more than punches and kicks. The goal here was to beat Cooler. That's it. There was nothing more. You beat Cooler, you've saved the Namekians. I would have preferred if Goku, before the opening credits and after hearing about the Geti Star, arrived on New Namek first with his IT, and was knocked out by the silhouette of an old villain. This prompts the gang to make it there to find Goku. There, we've added a new element to the story. Now it's more interesting.

And for the record, this wasn't even a revenge story. Cooler didn't plant the Geti Star on Earth. Goku just happened to make it there. Nothing is ever stated about Cooler knowing he'd arrive, IIRC.

Coola's inferiority complex towards Freeza never led anywhere. Then again, it's been a while since I've watched the movies.

It led to a new form that was defeated by a SSJ even more easily than Frieza's 100% and mecha forms were...

[ABED]

but were intersected, and thus had to defend themselves. Just one epic car chase. I've personally never seen anything like it before. It was fun.

They weren't intersected, Joe's convoy came up behind them. It's not even the best Mad Max film. You have seen things like it before. There have been numerous car chases in films, even long ones, but at least they had the sense to not make it the ENTIRE film. DB's action is the cornerstone of the story, but it tells a story and it's not the same thing. The set pieces are very different.

The first one was, and while I don't think Coola's big plan was ultimately revenge, it's a huge coincidence that he chooses Namek to suck dry.

[jcogginsa]

How is Cooler memorable? He's Freeza with an inferiority complex.

he had an inferiority complex?

I just feel it could have all been executed much, much better. I personally consider it among the weakest of the DBZ films (and there's not such high caliber competition there to begin with...).

Oh, and Fury Road was one of my favorite films this year.

Wait, you loved Fury Road, but apparently a DBZ film that is almost all action and little story (way more than Fury Road's) is a problem? At least Coola's an interesting memorable villain.

The quality of the action matters

[ABED]

he had an inferiority complex?

Yeah, just looked it up, it wasn't what I thought it was. I thought it was another term for narcicism, but in that case, Freeza doesn't qualify either.

The quality of the action matters

And Fury Road is really repetitive. You want a good action movie, watch Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, or Predator. If you want something painfully drawn out, watch Fury Road. Want a good Mad Max film that's about the title character, watch the first one - it has actual characters. Goku's fight with Coola is a good fight scene, especially once Vegeta arrives. It's fun, it's fast, and doesn't belabor the point. If you want two hours of people knocking people off cars, where the only significant character development is telegraphed from the opening, and the biggest plot point is turning around, Fury Road is your film. If you want robots, humor, fun well defined characters, and great action, then DB is the show for you.

[jcogginsa]

he had an inferiority complex?

Yeah, just looked it up, it wasn't what I thought it was. I thought it was another term for narcicism, but in that case, Freeza doesn't qualify either.

The quality of the action matters

And Fury Road is really repetitive. You want a good action movie, watch Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, or Predator. If you want something painfully drawn out, watch Fury Road. Want a good Mad Max film that's about the title character, watch the first one - it has actual characters. Goku's fight with Coola is a good fight scene, especially once Vegeta arrives. It's fun, it's fast, and doesn't belabor the point. If you want two hours of people knocking people off cars, where the only significant character development is telegraphed from the opening, and the biggest plot point is turning around, Fury Road is your film. If you want robots, humor, fun well defined characters, and great action, then DB is the show for you.

I never really felt like he had one

I've never seen Fury Road, so i can't comment,

[rereboy]

And Fury Road is really repetitive. You want a good action movie, watch Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, or Predator. If you want something painfully drawn out, watch Fury Road. Want a good Mad Max film that's about the title character, watch the first one - it has actual characters. Goku's fight with Coola is a good fight scene, especially once Vegeta arrives. It's fun, it's fast, and doesn't belabor the point. If you want two hours of people knocking people off cars, where the only significant character development is telegraphed from the opening, and the biggest plot point is turning around, Fury Road is your film. If you want robots, humor, fun well defined characters, and great action, then DB is the show for you.

Er... Just... no. Fury Road is one of the most impressive visual and audio journeys I've ever undertaken at the theater. The plot and characters fit perfectly with what they did since the plot is quite literally "despair, madness and maybe some traces of humanity beneath all that". It's the end of the world... Everybody is completely desperate... Everybody is mad... And yet some embers of humanity might remain.

[ABED]

Orange and blue filters doesn't equal impressive visuals and there are no characters, they are all stock and cardboard.

Er... Just... no. Fury Road is one of the most impressive visual and audio journeys I've ever undertaken at the theater. The plot and characters fit perfectly with what they did since the plot is quite literally "despair, madness and maybe some traces of humanity beneath all that". It's the end of the world... Everybody is completely desperate... Everybody is mad... And yet some embers of humanity might remain.

That's not the plot, that might be the theme. The plot is "a woman tries to run away from her problems, realizes that there's no safe haven, so she turns around to confront her issues." Max plays no meaningful part in the film. If people recognized it for what it is, I'd be less bothered by it, but when people pump it up to be a "masterpiece", it's irritating, especially when they judge your entire taste in movies for not liking ONE film they do. DB is similar to Mad Max in a way, it's a LOT of action and little plot (just enough to give it some meaning), but DB has the benefit of interesting likable characters whom I actually care about, wonderful designs, and the action is constantly different.

[rereboy]

That's not the plot, that might be the theme.

Spoiler:

That's the plot summarized, without the details. That's what it's all about, that's makes everything go around and what motivates every single character in its own way.

The logistic details beyond that merely en-bold the themes, with the chase being not only incredible action, but also a perfect metaphor for the desperation of the men and women who have not yet completely succumb to the madness that the world has become.

These men/women translate the desperation that everyone feels and has felt in this world right before yielding to the madness, trying to hold on to their humanity as they do so. Their desperate run away from that madness, while the madness tries it hardest to capture them and engulf them completely yet again, is pretty brilliant because it symbolizes it beautifully.

And then, after all that run, we, along with the characters, realize that it's all for nothing... Their desperation and will to get away from it all doesn't change facts. It's the end of the world. There's no safe way to run, no safe place to hide. So, they either keep running and running from the madness to the unknown and surely their slow end... or they face the madness and try to come up on top, make the best of the situation, try to improve things as best as they can, even when there's no real hope. And that's what their return symbolizes and, once again, is pretty brilliant.

Max (besides having the same screen time or more than Furioza and being just as important or more to the logistic details of what happens) ends up being the most important character because of this. His character is a micro-cosmos of what the movie is trying to convey. He's a man divided between his madness, his desperation and his humanity due to his past and what the world has become. A part of him has already yielded to the madness, but another part of him has not... it's still human, yet desperate. He is forced to balance several times in the movie his humanity, his madness and his desperation. In the end, he gives more weight to his human side, and helps everyone face the madness that was after them. By doing this, Max helps himself and the viewer is given hope that someday he will triumph over his personal madness just like they all did agaisnt the "physical" madness that was chasing them.

The character of Nux is also very important to make us realize just how people have fallen for the madness, due to their desperation, their hopeless state. They are even desperate to die in a glorious death because that's all they have to live for. Yet, even for at least some of them, there is a chance to find still a spark of humanity, like what happened with his character.

Your criticisms regarding the movie seem to be belittling all this or simply not understanding it. Even if you personally like it, it's very easy to understand why it's view as a great movie by many.

[VintageSaiyan]

Per the Movie 6 comment - I wish Cooler was way more developed as he had TWO movies to do it with. But still, it was one of the more entertaining films, we got the best Goku/Vegeta interaction in my opinion as rivals fighting side by side to defeat a common enemy. The animation wasn't as bad as people say and nowhere near anything as bad that Super is putting out these days, and for the Vegeta plothole - Goku was the only one that saw him as a Super Saiyan.

[Hellspawn28]

I still never made sense for me if Metal Coola can create a army of clones, why make them all so weak? If Metal Coola just made them all just as powerful as him then his army would have easily beaten Goku and Vegeta. Goku not going SSj right off the bat against Metal Coola and used Kaioken instead was really stupid if you ask me. Toei did the same mistake by doing the filler episode fight between SSj2 Goku and Kid Buu. It would make more sense to use SSj at the start of the match instead of Kaioken. Kaioken is pretty much useless after the Freeza saga.

[Kamiccolo9]

I still never made sense for me if Metal Coola can create a army of clones, why make them all so weak? If Metal Coola just made them all just as powerful as him then his army would have easily beaten Goku and Vegeta. Goku not going SSj right off the bat against Metal Coola and used Kaioken instead was really stupid if you ask me. Toei did the same mistake by doing the filler episode fight between SSj2 Goku and Kid Buu. It would make more sense to use SSj at the start of the match instead of Kaioken. Kaioken is pretty much useless after the Freeza saga.

They weren't weak, and the clones were all equally powerful?