Cell and timelines (what really happened)

[predazunn]

This >> http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Alternate_timeline

IS WRONG!

I think I have figured out what happened regarding the whole timeline stuff. I'm amazed that there are no plot holes, I don't think that was pre planned but just dumb luck. Anyway context:

We all know that Cell came from a third timeline where Trunks was killed. So where did it all begin? Let's go

Timeline 1: Cyborgs, Goku virus, everyone dead Trunks travels back in time (Original)

Timeline 2: Trunks goes back in time, he warns the Z fighters, then comes back 3 years after they train to help them and they FAIL; cyborgs win again (I'll explain later). However chibi Trunks (We'll call him Trunks 2.0) grows up stronger for some reason, (perhaps Gohan 2.0 starts training him earlier) and this time Trunks 2.0 defeats the cyborgs (possibly with Gohan 2.0's help), at this point Trunks 2.0 still has the time machine that the dead Original Trunks from timeline 1 had and decides he's not done yet; he's going back in time for some reason Piccolo assumed in the manga that he was going back to tell them that he had defeated the cyborgs, (I'd like to think he was going back to gather the dragonballs and wish everything right) HOWEVER he is ambushed by Cell; Cell takes the time machine and goes back himself.

Timeline 3: Manga timeline; the events in timeline 2 where the Z fighters and Original Trunks die are interfered with by Cell so they never happen. (In a sense Cell saves their asses)

Timeline 4: in Timeline 1 Original Trunks never returned from Timeline 2 (pretty bleak timeline, I'm guessing Cell becomes perfect and wins there) but since Timeline 3 changed all that, a new timeline was created where Trunks returned to the future and killed the androids and the Cell of that time.

So Daizenshuu 7's theory about blueprint and remote controls was probably off the mark. What's not taken into account is that in the manga Cell came from a timeline where Future Trunks had killed Frieza because it is stated that Trunks's Cells could have been extracted. People assume however that since Cell came in a time machine where Trunks was planning to travel to the past then it was a timeline where Goku died from the virus. But it wasn't, we clearly see from the panels that Future Trunks had interfered with Cell's original timeline so the only conclusion is that even with Goku's help they fail to contain the cyborgs, I don't know what happens, but we must assume that at least the androids get them before they go into the room of spirit and time. Perhaps they start killing civilians and everyone is too distracted by that to think of going into the chamber. Or maybe 16 self destructs or something, whatever. Point is they die but the time machine is still around and chibi Trunks is still around and so the Trunks that Cell kills is the one belonging to that timeline, the one who eventually becomes strong enough to beat the androids but not quite strong enough to beat Cell.

What do you think? I suggest you catch up on the theories, I think I covered that plot hole pretty well How's that for a first post?

[soduh2]

If I'm not mistaken, your timeline attempts to fix the issue of Cell having Trunks' DNA.

I always assumed that the manga/mainstream continuity Cell had Trunk's DNA, but he was killed by Krillin before he developed. The Cell that was fought in the Cell Games "knew of Trunks" but did not have his genetic information.

[LuckyCat]

Or Cell could have been referring to young Trunks of his time, and the anime didn't have that footage so it just used the footage it had of Trunks. Cell doesn't specifically say "Trunks from when he killed Freeza", at any rate.

[nickzambuto]

Qaaman's Alternate Timeline Theory on YouTube is pretty solid if you have 40 minutes to spend.

[predazunn]

If I'm not mistaken, your timeline attempts to fix the issue of Cell having Trunks' DNA.

I always assumed that the manga/mainstream continuity Cell had Trunk's DNA, but he was killed by Krillin before he developed. The Cell that was fought in the Cell Games "knew of Trunks" but did not have his genetic information.

No my timeline attempts (and I believe it solves) to fix the issue as to why Cell makes reference to Frieza dying at the hands of Trunks in his own timeline; I don't think manga present cell had Trunks's DNA.

Or Cell could have been referring to young Trunks of his time, and the anime didn't have that footage so it just used the footage it had of Trunks. Cell doesn't specifically say "Trunks from when he killed Freeza", at any rate.

Highly doubt he was referring to young Trunks of his time (but it's possible). Take a look: (scanlation removed)

The manga references a mecha Frieza and King Cold CUT in a similar way to how Mirai Trunks cut them up. The anime is clearly right. I'm not saying you're wrong, there is room for interpretation that he could be referring to young Trunks but that panel heavily implies that it was future Trunks. Also the fly bot has a history of extracting cells from battles; the only battles that chibi Trunks had was against the cyborgs years later by which time Cell would have already been released from his pod and it would have been impossible to integrate Trunks's DNA with Cell's makeup. This would contradict Cell's statement since he clearly says that the computer COULD have integrated Trunks's cells with his own but didn't.

In short you could be right but I don't think it's probable, still I'm not trying to impose my views on anybody just looking for feedback.

Qaaman's Alternate Timeline Theory on YouTube is pretty solid if you have 40 minutes to spend.

Have just watched it. I LIKE the creativity behind it but I think the theory itself doesn't solve existing plotholes and instead creates more as he readily admits. It is also possible but it is less 'clean' if you will than my theory. Explanation:

He says that there are two Cells in the History of Trunks timeline but that's reaching. There is no evidence for it and it also creates the plotholes of what happens to one of them? He says that one of them, the future cell is killed by the cyborgs. I highly doubt that why? Because the androids in the HoT timeline are stated to be weaker than the cyborgs from the manga timeline and THIS is the same future cell that dispenses with the manga 17 and 18. HOWEVER it is possible that since HoT 17 and 18 were also said to be more cruel (I'm not sure about this btw, relying on memory here) than the manga timeline they would have killed more people and given less candidates for Cell to absorb.

Also he doesn't solve the plothole that Cell makes reference to future Trunks and dismisses it. He says that in Cell's timeline it was Goku who killed mecha Frieza but evidence suggests otherwise, my theory 'kills' that plotholes so to speak.

We both have the common plothole of why would the Trunks that was assassinated by Cell go back to 767? Piccolo says that it was to tell them that he had killed the cyborgs but like Qaaman says it makes no sense to go back a year before Frieza attacked. Still the Trunks in my theory doesn't have a Bulma guiding him about the time machine because the Bulma in his timeline never built a time machine so he could have been more naive to the consequences of going back in time that much. He could have wanted to go back to nip it in the bud without really knowing he was creating a new timeline. Why would he do that? To get his father, Goku and the others back. I also made a comment in my opening post that he could have gone back that far to gather the dragonballs and wish everything right but that's also reaching this is one way he would nip it in the bud the other would be to kill the androids and cell before they hatched, and since he didn't know he would create a new timeline he believed it would have saved the future.

[LuckyCat]

Highly doubt he was referring to young Trunks of his time (but it's possible). The manga references a mecha Freeza and King Cold CUT in a similar way to how Mirai Trunks cut them up. The anime is clearly right.

Your explanation has a huge contradiction. If Trunks came back in time in the timeline Cell came from and killed Freeza, Goku would get the heart medicine and live. However Goku is dead in Cell's timeline. In Chapter 364, p4 Krillin mentions Goku being alive and Cell is surprised. Cell then says that this history is different than the one he knows. Your explanation puts Goku alive during this time, unlike this chapter.

I think you got to accept these are stock images of Mecha Freeza/Trunks and not take them literally.

[predazunn]

Highly doubt he was referring to young Trunks of his time (but it's possible). The manga references a mecha Freeza and King Cold CUT in a similar way to how Mirai Trunks cut them up. The anime is clearly right.

Your explanation has a huge contradiction. If Trunks came back in time in the timeline Cell came from and killed Freeza, Goku would get the heart medicine and live. However Goku is dead in Cell's timeline. In Chapter 364, p4 Krillin mentions Goku being alive and Cell is surprised. Cell then says that this history is different than the one he knows. Your explanation puts Goku alive during this time, unlike this chapter.

I think you got to accept these are stock images of Mecha Freeza/Trunks and not take them literally.

No Goku is dead in Cell's timeline. He doesn't die from the virus he dies from the cyborgs...I don't think I explained myself clearly enough. The only times that Goku dies from the heart virus are in Timeline 1 and Timeline 4. In Timeline 2 he is killed by the cyborgs and so are the rest of the gang. I don't think that's far fetched. If Goku never goes into the RoSaT he is easily dispensed by the Androids and since there is no Cell threat in timeline 2 Kamicollo can't help them out so Piccolo dies.

I really need to make some illustrations or something to get my point across more efficiently

EDIT: Have checked out 364, there IS a heavy implication that Goku died earlier than the rest of the Z fighters but I don't think that disproves my theory. We all know that time travel pollutes events. Such as 16 waking up and 19 and 20 showing up instead of 17 and 18. Hell in Cell's timeline 17 and 18 could have woken up early and killed Gero, (as shown in the non- manga canon flashback when Cell turns perfect). If Goku had been facing 17/18 instead of 19 in his sickly state then he might have died earlier than the others. Vegeta and the others would have been spared similar to the way they were spared when Vegeta fought 18 and they would have gotten killed later on.

They would have never gone into RoSaT because it was Goku's idea and so no one would have come up with it. I'm reaching I think but i don't think anything that I said is inconceivable. If you are implying that Cell's timeline should follow the events of Trunks's timeline because of that comment then Cell should be equally surprised that Krillin and Piccolo are alive because according to Trunks they all perish on May 12th and when Cell makes that statement it is well beyond that date thereby creating ANOTHER plothole.

Still as I said I'm not here to impose my views on anyone. I'm just saying that I've thought this through and I don't think there are any contradictions, I would understand other people not accepting it since they're now accustomed to other theories.

[Truhan]

I don't think we need multiple timelines. There should only be two of them: Trunks' Bad Future, and the Past he helped change into a Good one, running concurrently with each other. After Gohan defeated Perfect Cell, Trunks departed to his Future before Cell got to kill him (or his younger self) to steal the time machine. In defeating him, he allowed a young Trunks to depart to help the Z Fighters in the Past, before another Cell snuck up to and killed the older Trunks. This Cell would be the one to become Perfect, and be killed by Gohan, keeping the cycle alive. So, in the end, Goku was always warned about the Androids in the Good timeline, while he died from a heart disease in the Bad timeline. Ultimately, Future Trunks dies as well, and the one Bulma gets in contact with is her kid trolling her through messages xD.

EDIT: that's not taking into account that Cell could have had Trunks' DNA, but it's a mess, either way.

[predazunn]

I don't think we need multiple timelines. There should only be two of them: Trunks' Bad Future, and the Past he helped change into a Good one, running concurrently with each other. After Gohan defeated Perfect Cell, Trunks departed to his Future before Cell got to kill him (or his younger self) to steal the time machine. In defeating him, he allowed a young Trunks to depart to help the Z Fighters in the Past, before another Cell snuck up to and killed the older Trunks. This Cell would be the one to become Perfect, and be killed by Gohan, keeping the cycle alive. So, in the end, Goku was always warned about the Androids in the Good timeline, while he died from a heart disease in the Bad timeline. Ultimately, Future Trunks dies as well, and the one Bulma gets in contact with is her kid trolling her through messages xD.

EDIT: that's not taking into account that Cell could have had Trunks' DNA, but it's a mess, either way.

I wish it were that simple but even with your theory there is another timeline because if Cell had never killed a Trunks and borrowed his time machine then there would be no Perfect Cell for Gohan to defeat and Trunks would never have gone into the hyperbolic time chamber to become strong enough to execute the imperfect cell that was about to ambush him.. It's a grandfather paradox: if I went back in time and killed my grandfather how could I have been born to kill him in the first place? So there's no way I can kill my grandfather.

In short I don't think it's possible for there to be only two timelines without accepting a lot of plotholes (you're free to do that). What I'm trying to do is find the theory with the least amount of plotholes that runs concurrent with the evidence in the MANGA (not the daizenshuu). I think so far no one really has 'ruined' it for me so to speak

[Soppa Saia People]

This >> http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Alternate_timeline

IS WRONG!

I think I have figured out what happened regarding the whole timeline stuff. I'm amazed that there are no plot holes, I don't think that was pre planned but just dumb luck. Anyway context:

We all know that Cell came from a third timeline where Trunks was killed. So where did it all begin? Let's go

Timeline 1: Cyborgs, Goku virus, everyone dead Trunks travels back in time (Original)

Timeline 2: Trunks goes back in time, he warns the Z fighters, then comes back 3 years after they train to help them and they FAIL; cyborgs win again (I'll explain later). However chibi Trunks (We'll call him Trunks 2.0) grows up stronger for some reason, (perhaps Gohan 2.0 starts training him earlier) and this time Trunks 2.0 defeats the cyborgs (possibly with Gohan 2.0's help), at this point Trunks 2.0 still has the time machine that the dead Original Trunks from timeline 1 had and decides he's not done yet; he's going back in time for some reason Piccolo assumed in the manga that he was going back to tell them that he had defeated the cyborgs, (I'd like to think he was going back to gather the dragonballs and wish everything right) HOWEVER he is ambushed by Cell; Cell takes the time machine and goes back himself.

Timeline 3: Manga timeline; the events in timeline 2 where the Z fighters and Original Trunks die are interfered with by Cell so they never happen. (In a sense Cell saves their asses)

Timeline 4: in Timeline 1 Original Trunks never returned from Timeline 2 (pretty bleak timeline, I'm guessing Cell becomes perfect and wins there) but since Timeline 3 changed all that, a new timeline was created where Trunks returned to the future and killed the androids and the Cell of that time.

So Daizenshuu 7's theory about blueprint and remote controls was probably off the mark. What's not taken into account is that in the manga Cell came from a timeline where Future Trunks had killed Freeza because it is stated that Trunks's Cells could have been extracted. People assume however that since Cell came in a time machine where Trunks was planning to travel to the past then it was a timeline where Goku died from the virus. But it wasn't, we clearly see from the panels that Future Trunks had interfered with Cell's original timeline so the only conclusion is that even with Goku's help they fail to contain the cyborgs, I don't know what happens, but we must assume that at least the androids get them before they go into the room of spirit and time. Perhaps they start killing civilians and everyone is too distracted by that to think of going into the chamber. Or maybe 16 self destructs or something, whatever. Point is they die but the time machine is still around and chibi Trunks is still around and so the Trunks that Cell kills is the one belonging to that timeline, the one who eventually becomes strong enough to beat the androids but not quite strong enough to beat Cell.

What do you think? I suggest you catch up on the theories, I think I covered that plot hole pretty well How's that for a first post?

Why are you using the dragon balk wiki ?

[predazunn]

Why are you using the dragon balk wiki ?

I don't know but most theories I see seems to follow that route. Am I wrong? What is the most mainstream theory out there?

[Lord Beerus]

Why are you using the dragon balk wiki ?

I don't know but most theories I see seems to follow that route. Am I wrong? What is the most mainstream theory out there?

I really wouldn't recommenced using the DB wiki. Most of the information is based of the English dub and can be quite inaccurate.

[LuckyCat]

What is the most mainstream theory out there?

I think Daizenshuu 7's "4 timelines" explanation is most commonly cited. I don't know what Kanzenshuu will use once its own wiki is up and running, but I imagine it will be similar to that.