DB Characters Can Bust *insert celestial object here*!

[Kaboom]

Copied and pasted from when you said the exact same thing in this exact same thread 2 weeks ago.

Fancy that. h0kuten, please strive to put substance into posts like this instead of just listing off borderline-meaningless descriptors.

[h0kuten]

Copied and pasted from when you said the exact same thing in this exact same thread 2 weeks ago.

Fancy that. h0kuten, please strive to put substance into posts like this instead of just listing off borderline-meaningless descriptors.

They all have statements and/or feats backing them up.

[voltlunok]

Copied and pasted from when you said the exact same thing in this exact same thread 2 weeks ago.

Fancy that. h0kuten, please strive to put substance into posts like this instead of just listing off borderline-meaningless descriptors.

They all have statements and/or feats backing them up.

That's fine and dandy but just coming in, dropping a list and walking out isn't discussion. You have a point? Fine. Discuss it. Dropping a list isn't discussion (Which is what these forums are for.) It's just a list...cool. What am I supposed to take from it? That you think X character can bust Y thing? K but what about that list breeds discussion over these opinions or points? To me it doesn't, it's a list. If perhaps you added points of discussion or opinions, it wouldn't get such flak. But the issue is that you don't. You dropped a list and walked away even knowing you've been warned about doing that before in this same thread.

[h0kuten]

That's fine and dandy but just coming in, dropping a list and walking out isn't discussion. You have a point? Fine. Discuss it. Dropping a list isn't discussion (Which is what these forums are for.) It's just a list...cool. What am I supposed to take from it? That you think X character can bust Y thing? K but what about that list breeds discussion over these opinions or points? To me it doesn't, it's a list. If perhaps you added points of discussion or opinions, it wouldn't get such flak. But the issue is that you don't. You dropped a list and walked away even knowing you've been warned about doing that before in this same thread.

Piccolo has feats of busting the moon, this makes him a moon buster.
Vegeta is a planetary buster because he is stated to be so.
Beerus is a universal buster because he is stated to be so.

What more do you want?

Do you want me to go on a 2 page rant about how I'm 'so right and my logic is so godly', or just drop a logical consensus that is backed by evidence?

[voltlunok]

That's fine and dandy but just coming in, dropping a list and walking out isn't discussion. You have a point? Fine. Discuss it. Dropping a list isn't discussion (Which is what these forums are for.) It's just a list...cool. What am I supposed to take from it? That you think X character can bust Y thing? K but what about that list breeds discussion over these opinions or points? To me it doesn't, it's a list. If perhaps you added points of discussion or opinions, it wouldn't get such flak. But the issue is that you don't. You dropped a list and walked away even knowing you've been warned about doing that before in this same thread.

Piccolo has feats of busting the moon, this makes him a moon buster.
Vegeta is a planetary buster because he is stated to be so.
Beerus is a universal buster because he is stated to be so.

What more do you want?

Do you want me to go on a 2 page rant about how I'm 'so right and my logic is so godly', or just drop a logical consensus that is backed by evidence?

Yes, that first option would actually be trying to have a conversation/discussion. Also what consensus? Piccolo and Vegeta? Sure people get that even though there are some who debate that Vegeta couldn't blow the Earth up in one shot but at least seriously damage it. Cell? Still debated by many so no consensus there. Buu? Never seen anyone debate or bring up if Buu can 'bust' galaxies. As others have pointed out (Myself included.) The statement about Beerus is so vague and ambiguous that it can be taken in a multitude of ways but you seem dead set on latching to "This means Beerus can destroy the whole universe in a single blast." when in reality it could mean a multitude of things since it's a generic hyperbole statement meant to add weight to Beerus' presence as a villain and really shouldn't be taken to this much of an extreme.

Like I said before, it's a list. You may think it's right but that doesn't mean everyone else will. If you think it's right then fine, back it up with discussion and actual points. Vague statements and false 'rules of storytelling' aren't evidence. Actual feats and such are. But, I digress, I may just be getting worked up over nothing. My view of things may just clash and go against your own, world is big and different I guess. Have a nice day, hope ya think on what I said.

[h0kuten]

That's fine and dandy but just coming in, dropping a list and walking out isn't discussion. You have a point? Fine. Discuss it. Dropping a list isn't discussion (Which is what these forums are for.) It's just a list...cool. What am I supposed to take from it? That you think X character can bust Y thing? K but what about that list breeds discussion over these opinions or points? To me it doesn't, it's a list. If perhaps you added points of discussion or opinions, it wouldn't get such flak. But the issue is that you don't. You dropped a list and walked away even knowing you've been warned about doing that before in this same thread.

Piccolo has feats of busting the moon, this makes him a moon buster.
Vegeta is a planetary buster because he is stated to be so.
Beerus is a universal buster because he is stated to be so.

What more do you want?

Do you want me to go on a 2 page rant about how I'm 'so right and my logic is so godly', or just drop a logical consensus that is backed by evidence?

Yes, that first option would actually be trying to have a conversation/discussion. Also what consensus? Piccolo and Vegeta? Sure people get that even though there are some who debate that Vegeta couldn't blow the Earth up in one shot but at least seriously damage it. Cell? Still debated by many so no consensus there. Buu? Never seen anyone debate or bring up if Buu can 'bust' galaxies. As others have pointed out (Myself included.) The statement about Beerus is so vague and ambiguous that it can be taken in a multitude of ways but you seem dead set on latching to "This means Beerus can destroy the whole universe in a single blast." when in reality it could mean a multitude of things since it's a generic hyperbole statement meant to add weight to Beerus' presence as a villain and really shouldn't be taken to this much of an extreme.

Like I said before, it's a list. You may think it's right but that doesn't mean everyone else will. If you think it's right then fine, back it up with discussion and actual points. Vague statements and false 'rules of storytelling' aren't evidence. Actual feats and such are. But, I digress, I may just be getting worked up over nothing. My view of things may just clash and go against your own, world is big and different I guess. Have a nice day, hope ya think on what I said.

Statements within a story are true until contradicted. Therefore my logic is valid.

Nobody, nowhere, no matter how many paragraphs you type, can convince me other-wise.

Let's agree to disagree.

[rereboy]

You are forgetting that it wasn't stated how exactly Beerus would destroy the universe. Since common logic for busting feats dictates that the character has to be able to destroy the thing in question in one single attack to be a buster of said something, that's actually pretty important.

Regarding Vegeta, for example, we saw how he was going to destroy the Earth... it would be with one single giant attack. Therefore, in that case, since we have the how and it fits with common busting logic, there are no problems saying that he is a planet buster. The same isn't true for Beerus.

[voltlunok]

Statements within a story are true until contradicted. Therefore my logic is valid.

Nobody, nowhere, no matter how many paragraphs you type, can convince me other-wise.

Let's agree to disagree.

That is fine, you can stick to that but understand, no one will play by those rules. I will agree to disagree but before I go, I will leave you this hypothetical match using that logic.

Beerus vs Mazinkaiser

In the Blue corner! Standing I'm gonna say at a good 7 feet from foot to ear tip! The purple feline of doom! The god of destruction! Beerus!



In the red corner! Standing at 23 meters high from foot to crown! Weighing in at a impressive 39 tons! The invincible black iron castle! MAZINKAISER!



Now each fighter's strength will be determined by one statement within it's own story. Both statements are uncontridicted and therefore treated as fact. Representing Lord Beerus shall be King Kai! Whose statement you keep using. From this we'll extrapolate that Beerus can destroy the universe with his power.

Representing Mazinkaiser, Professor Yumi. A character who at this point is as deeply familiar with Mazinkaiser's inner workings as it's creator is. Professor Yumi's statement?





Context, this statement is made after Mazinkaiser lifts entirely on his own power, an enemy ship that is by my estimates about 30x his size, hucks it into the air and then uses his Kaiser Skarander like a boomarang and saws the thing in half. The kid comments that Mazinkaiser has incredible power and Professor Yumi corrects him in stating that Kaiser's power is limitless and surely has powers surpassesing that of god and the devil. After which Kaiser enters the final fight with Ankouku Daishogun where he has a minor struggle that is more on Kouji, the pilot then Kaiser. Kouji was mildly hesitating but once he got his head in the game, he steamrolls Daishogun with ease. Afterwhich Ankouku even starts wondering if it's true Kaiser has limitless power.



This, coming from Ankouku Daishogun whom has been depicted cutting Mt. Fuji in half merely from the air pressure of drawing his sword while standing I'm gonna guess maybe...20 miles away.

Going off your logic of 'statements are true until contradicted.' This puts Kaiser leagues if not universes above Beerus when in all reality, Kaiser could at best tackle the likes of Freeza saga Freeza. But we're not going by normal logic, we're going by statements are true until contradicted. This takes any form of hyperbole or the like, which are normally ignored because they are just there to hype a character up and treats them like fact when in reality they aren't meant to be taken at face value.

Like you said, We'll agree to disagree but please understand, not everyone is gonna take your logic as fact and nor will they play things by your rules. The forums are for discussion first and foremost. Have a nice day.

[h0kuten]

Statements within a story are true until contradicted. Therefore my logic is valid.

Nobody, nowhere, no matter how many paragraphs you type, can convince me other-wise.

Let's agree to disagree.

That is fine, you can stick to that but understand, no one will play by those rules. I will agree to disagree but before I go, I will leave you this hypothetical match using that logic.

Beerus vs Mazinkaiser

In the Blue corner! Standing I'm gonna say at a good 7 feet from foot to ear tip! The purple feline of doom! The god of destruction! Beerus!



In the red corner! Standing at 23 meters high from foot to crown! Weighing in at a impressive 39 tons! The invincible black iron castle! MAZINKAISER!



Now each fighter's strength will be determined by one statement within it's own story. Both statements are uncontridicted and therefore treated as fact. Representing Lord Beerus shall be King Kai! Whose statement you keep using. From this we'll extrapolate that Beerus can destroy the universe with his power.

Representing Mazinkaiser, Professor Yumi. A character who at this point is as deeply familiar with Mazinkaiser's inner workings as it's creator is. Professor Yumi's statement?





Context, this statement is made after Mazinkaiser lifts entirely on his own power, an enemy ship that is by my estimates about 30x his size, hucks it into the air and then uses his Kaiser Skarander like a boomarang and saws the thing in half. The kid comments that Mazinkaiser has incredible power and Professor Yumi corrects him in stating that Kaiser's power is limitless and surely has powers surpassesing that of god and the devil. After which Kaiser enters the final fight with Ankouku Daishogun where he has a minor struggle that is more on Kouji, the pilot then Kaiser. Kouji was mildly hesitating but once he got his head in the game, he steamrolls Daishogun with ease. Afterwhich Ankouku even starts wondering if it's true Kaiser has limitless power.



This, coming from Ankouku Daishogun whom has been depicted cutting Mt. Fuji in half merely from the air pressure of drawing his sword while standing I'm gonna guess maybe...20 miles away.

Going off your logic of 'statements are true until contradicted.' This puts Kaiser leagues if not universes above Beerus when in all reality, Kaiser could at best tackle the likes of Freeza saga Freeza. But we're not going by normal logic, we're going by statements are true until contradicted. This takes any form of hyperbole or the like, which are normally ignored because they are just there to hype a character up. They aren't meant to be taken at face value.

Like you said, We'll agree to disagree but please understand, not everyone is gonna take your logic as fact and nor will they play things by your rules. The forums are for discussion first and foremost. Have a nice day.

As I said.

Nothing can convince me.

Let's agree to disagree.

[Polyphase Avatron]

The Mazinkaiser thing is a good example. There's also stuff in other shows and comic books like when the Watcher was called omnipotent (all-powerful), and when everyone was afraid Thor was going to destroy all the 9 worlds in his rage (the 9 worlds in Marvel comics are 9 separate universes). I don't think those statements are credible.

[Kamiccolo9]

The Mazinkaiser thing is a good example. There's also stuff in other shows and comic books like when the Watcher was called omnipotent (all-powerful), and when everyone was afraid Thor was going to destroy all the 9 worlds in his rage (the 9 worlds in Marvel comics are 9 separate universes). I don't think those statements are credible.

The nine worlds are not separate universes. They are different "realms," but they all exist in the 616 universe.

[h0kuten]

That's cartoon.

A story is different.

The author is using a character to tell us something.

[Kamiccolo9]

That's cartoon.

A story is different.

The author is using a character to tell us something.

And Beerus isn't a cartoon character? Pray tell.


"A story is different?" What does this even mean? You're not even trying anymore.

[mmg86]

Uh... Mazinkaiser or Thor, which one did you call "a cartoon", h0kuten?

I thought of another example to show you, on why statements can very well be a character overestimating someone else/himself, being arrogant, outright lies, etc.




Thats a rather specific statement. Unlike saying "Beers could destroy the universe", which leaves the means, time, effort, etc required open to interpretation, here Halimede claims that his Triple Disaster technique can destroy the universe. Basically the same type of statement that Cell made about his Kamehameha.

[Polyphase Avatron]

The Mazinkaiser thing is a good example. There's also stuff in other shows and comic books like when the Watcher was called omnipotent (all-powerful), and when everyone was afraid Thor was going to destroy all the 9 worlds in his rage (the 9 worlds in Marvel comics are 9 separate universes). I don't think those statements are credible.

The nine worlds are not separate universes. They are different "realms," but they all exist in the 616 universe.

Well I suppose it depends on which author is writing the comic. I've seen them referred to as separate dimensions and universes, and Midgard (one of the 9 worlds) being equated with the entire 616 universe.

But with 50+ years of Thor comic books it stands to reason that different writers will interpret things differently.

[h0kuten]

Beerus is a stated Universal buster and nothing contradicts it.

The quote was made in the context of destroying the entire Earth in a second. So it follows in line with that logic.

It remains true until contradicted. Using other cartoons is pointless.

A story is different from a Cartoon. Yes Beerus is a Cartoon character as well, but he also has a manga adaption. Which is told through 'story-telling'. So when the author has a character state something, it remains true until contradicted.

It is impossible to get around this.

[Darkprince410]

Beerus is a stated Universal buster and nothing contradicts it.

The quote was made in the context of destroying the entire Earth in a second. So it follows in line with that logic.

It remains true until contradicted. Using other cartoons is pointless.

A story is different from a Cartoon. Yes Beerus is a Cartoon character as well, but he also has a manga adaption. Which is told through 'story-telling'. So when the author has a character state something, it remains true until contradicted.

It is impossible to get around this.

I don't follow your logic at all. A cartoon is simply a story in an animated format. It's still a story, just as much as anything else. Him being part of a "story" doesn't automatically make his statement undeniable truth, because the context of the dialogue doesn't indicate specifically what you're saying. You say Beerus has to be a universe destroyer, when all the dialogue indicates is that he's a danger to the universe. Nothing about it says he's able to do it in one go (like in the case of Vegeta or Cell's statements), just that he has the capacity to destroy the universe if he wanted.

In addition, manga adaptation of Beerus is irrelevant, because the manga Beerus is different than Super's Beerus. The events of the manga play out different by a considerable degree, so if anything, there being a manga adaptation is a detriment to the validity of the character, not a perk.

[rereboy]

It is impossible to get around this.

I got around this pretty easily just a few posts ago.

[pacz360]

Could we talk about this in a reasonable way please

[voltlunok]

Beerus is a stated Universal buster and nothing contradicts it.

The quote was made in the context of destroying the entire Earth in a second. So it follows in line with that logic.

It remains true until contradicted. Using other cartoons is pointless.

A story is different from a Cartoon. Yes Beerus is a Cartoon character as well, but he also has a manga adaption. Which is told through 'story-telling'. So when the author has a character state something, it remains true until contradicted.

It is impossible to get around this.

Soooo you're changing the rules now cause your "logic" was used to show a super robot has unlimited power compared to Beerus and thus could easily curb stomp a supposed 'universe buster'. If you're gonna try to denote Kaiser or any of the examples given to show how flawed this "logic" is by calling them a cartoon, then that denotes Beerus too because first and foremost, he was a cartoon. His manga adaptation came afterwards and shouldn't be counted.

Anime is also told through story-telling, that's the whole point. It's a visual medium for story-telling. Again, using your "logic", Mazinkaiser has limitless power and a low ranking general in Saint Seiya Omega is capable of destroying the entire universe. You're simply at this point trying to twist the rules so only you can use this 'impossible to get around' logic when in all reality, your "logic" has been slapped down by dozens on these forums, the mods have said it holds no water and no one is going to buy it.

Your "logic" is easy to get around, I did, Rereboy did, Kamiccolo9 has and others are now too. It's flawed, pure and simple. You can continue to use it as much as you'd like, feel free by all means but no one will take your "logic" as 'fact' because it isn't. It's just "logic" created to come by and say "Here is my thought, it's right pure and simple. No need for discussion because my personal logic that tells me I'm right says I'm right."