Frieza powering up VS Captain Planet..I mean SS god power up

[shinmaru]

They're both terrible transformations. To achieve Super Saiyan God, you stand around in a circle with five other Saiyans and hold hands. It came out of nowhere and it's an extremely cheap transformation that could be exploited tremendously, but for some reason it's not. I guess the whole "6 righteous Saiyans" thing covers up why it was never remembered, since those kind of Saiyans would be impossible to find, but I still find the entire method extremely stupid.

Golden Freeza is a bad transformation purely because the training was never shown. That's it. We are never given a reason to care for the power-up, we're never shown why it's so impressive. We don't know how much Freeza pushed himself to get it. Just imagine Goku arrives on Namek and can already go Super Saiyan immediately. That completely takes away merit from the transformation, but it still wouldn't be as bad as Golden Freeza because at least we saw Goku's training.

I guess I'll go with Super Saiyan God being the worst one, just because the entire Saiyan cast besides Goku and Vegeta is being stupid.

The first Ssjgod is a Ki transformation not a real transformation like Ssj1 2 and 3, but Toriyama had to change Goku's appearance to show the change to the viewer. that's why Goku loses the red hair transformation and keeps the God-ki in his base after a while. And The holding hand ritual is just for one time to tap into an entirely new ki. we still don't know if everyone can do it, but we all know you don't need to be a Ssj3 level to achieve God-ki transformation.
So for me the God ritual is more for changing your Ki style to god level ki, the blue hair is mastered version of god ki, But the transformation itself is just Ssj1

[FortuneSSJ]

Personally, I found the SSG ritual a lot more interesting than Gohan's Ultimate power-up, which few seem to complain about.

Unlocking someones true potential a la Guru > holding hands and summoning Captain Planet and completely minimizing the legend of the Super Saiyan. It's not even close imo.

But how many times we have to unlock Gohan true potential and he still doesn't get the job done?! Think about that for a sec.

[VintageSaiyan]

Secondly, the participants have to be "righteous"? Note: this is not the same as pure-hearted. Since when has righteousness ever mattered in the series when it came to becoming stronger?

What's the difference? It's the same bullshit. Saying "you have to have a pure heart" or "you have to be righteous" is just as cliché in my eyes, except righteous makes the transformation harder to achieve because pure hearted can also mean evil (as Vegeta in the android arc very clearly put it).

I'm sorry if I come across rude but your habit of playing devil's advocate on every single technicality you can find is getting very annoying and isn't really adding anything to the conversation. If I didn't know better I'd say you were trolling. it's as if you didn't even bother reading the rest of his post or just absolutely ignored what he was trying to say.

But how many times we have to unlock Gohan true potential and he still doesn't get the job done?! Think about that for a sec.

Well, he was a toddler going up against the emperor of the universe..and the second time around, he did become the strongest in the universe at that point. I didn't really like the ritual the second time around, but it was much better than unlocking some kind of fairy form out of nowhere imo. At least Gohan's inner strength has been a point throughout the series even if it was hammered to death.

[Lord Beerus]

I enjoy both the concept SSJG transformation and Golden Freeza, the only real flaw behind them is the lack of detail we're given, especially in Freeza's case as we don't see him train. But that may hopefully change in Super.

[fadeddreams5]

Personally, I found the SSG ritual a lot more interesting than Gohan's Ultimate power-up, which few seem to complain about.

Unlocking someones true potential a la Guru > holding hands and summoning Captain Planet and completely minimizing the legend of the Super Saiyan. It's not even close imo.

But how many times we have to unlock Gohan true potential and he still doesn't get the job done?! Think about that for a sec.

The fact that he always has more hidden potential/power, no matter how many times it's unlocked, could have actually served an important plot point and made him unique.

[derpgoku]

not really,it would just make him a bigger plot device then he already was on buu saga (unlock potential of an already unlocked potential sound ridiculous)

[Bullza]

It's not the best method of transforming (I'm talking about SSJG) but at least it was different.

[rereboy]

Why are people so critical of the emperor of the fucking universe who barely trained and is able to destroy planets with a finger, catching up with SS God and not the whole bullshit "let's hold hands and summon some sort of stupid diety thing which is just a pallete swap of Kaoiken, based on a legend that never existed up until now"? The latter is much lamer.

The problem with Freeza is that it makes him look incredibly stupid, especially when he survived Namek and went to Earth, instead of training for 4 months back then. If Freeza hadn't survived Namek and if he hadn't been portrayed as a calculating tyrant that didn't want to leave things to chance, like he was in early to middle Namek (predicting that there might be trouble, maybe form Earth, summoning the Ginyu force when even Zarbon thought there was no need, etc), which makes the fact that he never took the simple precaution of training consistently look ridiculous, there wouldn't be a problem.

The method of SSJG might be stupid but at least it doesn't make the characters look stupid.

[Doctor.]

I'm sorry if I come across rude but your habit of playing devil's advocate on every single technicality you can find is getting very annoying and isn't really adding anything to the conversation. If I didn't know better I'd say you were trolling. it's as if you didn't even bother reading the rest of his post or just absolutely ignored what he was trying to say.

Perhaps you missed my first post in this thread where I also bashed the new stuff? If so, then please do read it. I treat the series equally, bad is bad and good is good in my eyes. I'm not playing devil's advocate here, nor should you think so just because I dare to have an opinion that's vastly different from yours.

I don't know how I wasn't adding anything to the conversation. He added that "pure hearted" stuff in his post because he knew someone would bring up that both SSG and SS have similar requirements (having a pure heart and being righteous), and he was leaving that there to imply he thinks having a pure heart is a much more difficult requirement. I just said it's all the same bullshit.

[fadeddreams5]

not really,it would just make him a bigger plot device then he already was on buu saga (unlock potential of an already unlocked potential sound ridiculous)

I meant they could have later established a reason as to why that's the case (i.e. never ending hidden potential). For example, and I know this is a wacky one, what if Gohan, during his angry fits, actually inadvertently absorbed ki from his surrounding area, like a human spirit bomb? What if, when he powered down, his body preserved that ki in a latent form (i.e. new hidden potential), only to release it, along with more ki absorbed, during his next berserk mode? Rinse and repeat. In other words, the reason there's always more power to unlock from Gohan is because he has a special ability that constantly breaks the limit of his own potential whenever he rages. Going with what I've written, if his ultimate form now perpetually puts him in that angry state, only without the anger, Gohan is constantly becoming stronger, as some people imagine is the case with Broly!

With this crazy logic, they could catapult Gohan back to relevance because it'd explain why he stopped training, why he quit the saiyaman thing, and to top it, he can become strong without being a SSJG.

The method of SSJG might be stupid but at least it doesn't make the characters look stupid.

Debatable.

[rereboy]

The method of SSJG might be stupid but at least it doesn't make the characters look stupid.

Debatable.

I meant as characters.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

It's not the best method of transforming (I'm talking about SSJG) but at least it was different.

Agree'd. Also it makes sense that something called Super Saiyan God wouldn't be achieved by the conventional way. As for Freeza well honestly it isn't really a transformation as Freeza put it as his "further evolution" I don't think it goes beyond that, the main appearance is very reminiscent of Freeza's final stage so calling it an evolution and not transformation makes sense. Freeza was born with this gift of power and never once furthered himself beyond his limits infact he did the opposite he developed forms that suppressed his power thus it is only natural that once he tries to further himself he'll find he can power beyond what he had thought was his final stage. We didn't see Goku achieve SS3 he just appeared and screamed, exactly the same situation as Golden Freeza, infact it makes more sense for them not to show Freeza gaining Golden Freeza then it did for them not to show Goku achieving SS3 for reasons I stated. I don't think we need have the Golden Freeza explored more than what we know about it, it makes Freeza stronger and he chose the colour.

[derpgoku]

not really,it would just make him a bigger plot device then he already was on buu saga (unlock potential of an already unlocked potential sound ridiculous)

I meant they could have later established a reason as to why that's the case (i.e. never ending hidden potential). For example, and I know this is a wacky one, what if Gohan, during his angry fits, actually inadvertently absorbed ki from his surrounding area, like a human spirit bomb? What if, when he powered down, his body preserved that ki in a latent form (i.e. new hidden potential), only to release it, along with more ki absorbed, during his next berserk mode? Rinse and repeat. In other words, the reason there's always more power to unlock from Gohan is because he has a special ability that constantly breaks the limit of his own potential whenever he rages. Going with what I've written, if his ultimate form now perpetually puts him in that angry state, only without the anger, Gohan is constantly becoming stronger, as some people imagine is the case with Broly!

With this crazy logic, they could catapult Gohan back to relevance because it'd explain why he stopped training, why he quit the saiyaman thing, and to top it, he can become strong without being a SSJG.

The method of SSJG might be stupid but at least it doesn't make the characters look stupid.

hat would work ,only if gohan did some kind of traning which would make him able to inadvertently absorbed ki from his surrounding area ,if he did that without any traning ,that would make it an asspull since ogha is no special from other ,he is a saiyan ,so the question would be raised ,why can gohan do that but ohter saiyan can't?, soo they should make gohan do some kind of traning wiht the kaioshins and then he learns the techinque of absorbing KI


Debatable.

that would work ,only if gohan did some kind of traning which would make him able to inadvertently absorbed ki from his surrounding area ,if he did that without any traning ,that would make it an asspull since gohanis no special from other ,he is a saiyan ,so the question would be raised ,why can gohan do that but other saiyan can't?, soo they should make gohan do some kind of traning with the kaioshins so they also teach him this techinque of absorbing KI

[fadeddreams5]

not really,it would just make him a bigger plot device then he already was on buu saga (unlock potential of an already unlocked potential sound ridiculous)

I meant they could have later established a reason as to why that's the case (i.e. never ending hidden potential). For example, and I know this is a wacky one, what if Gohan, during his angry fits, actually inadvertently absorbed ki from his surrounding area, like a human spirit bomb? What if, when he powered down, his body preserved that ki in a latent form (i.e. new hidden potential), only to release it, along with more ki absorbed, during his next berserk mode? Rinse and repeat. In other words, the reason there's always more power to unlock from Gohan is because he has a special ability that constantly breaks the limit of his own potential whenever he rages. Going with what I've written, if his ultimate form now perpetually puts him in that angry state, only without the anger, Gohan is constantly becoming stronger, as some people imagine is the case with Broly!

With this crazy logic, they could catapult Gohan back to relevance because it'd explain why he stopped training, why he quit the saiyaman thing, and to top it, he can become strong without being a SSJG.

The method of SSJG might be stupid but at least it doesn't make the characters look stupid.

hat would work ,only if gohan did some kind of traning which would make him able to inadvertently absorbed ki from his surrounding area ,if he did that without any traning ,that would make it an asspull since ogha is no special from other ,he is a saiyan ,so the question would be raised ,why can gohan do that but ohter saiyan can't?, soo they should make gohan do some kind of traning wiht the kaioshins and then he learns the techinque of absorbing KI


Debatable.

that would work ,only if gohan did some kind of traning which would make him able to inadvertently absorbed ki from his surrounding area ,if he did that without any traning ,that would make it an asspull since gohanis no special from other ,he is a saiyan ,so the question would be raised ,why can gohan do that but other saiyan can't?, soo they should make gohan do some kind of traning with the kaioshins so they also teach him this techinque of absorbing KI

The point is that is what he's always displayed in the series--his "hidden potential." It's him acting like a human spirit bomb without anyone realizing it. Only this is not revealed until later, explaining why his power is never fully unlocked. It may or may not be silly, but it can all add up.

As for why... why was Gohan a 4 year old kicking Raditz's ass? Why was he able to floor 2nd form Frieza? Why was Gohan able to surpass his SSJ father in the ROSAT and reach an unprecedented level of strength in the Cell Games? Why was his unlocked potential so vast he was able to curbstomp Buu? Because he's Gohan and he's special, no different from Broly being born with a ridiculous power level. That's all there's ever been to it, unless you want to buy this new generation always having more potential than the last bullshit. That's less interesting to me.

[VintageSaiyan]

I'm sorry if I come across rude but your habit of playing devil's advocate on every single technicality you can find is getting very annoying and isn't really adding anything to the conversation. If I didn't know better I'd say you were trolling. it's as if you didn't even bother reading the rest of his post or just absolutely ignored what he was trying to say.

Perhaps you missed my first post in this thread where I also bashed the new stuff? If so, then please do read it. I treat the series equally, bad is bad and good is good in my eyes. I'm not playing devil's advocate here, nor should you think so just because I dare to have an opinion that's vastly different from yours.

I don't know how I wasn't adding anything to the conversation. He added that "pure hearted" stuff in his post because he knew someone would bring up that both SSG and SS have similar requirements (having a pure heart and being righteous), and he was leaving that there to imply he thinks having a pure heart is a much more difficult requirement. I just said it's all the same bullshit.

His main issue wasn't that they were pure hearted vs righteous, You just jumped on a technicality and ignored the whole point of his post - i.e transformations used to mean something and signaled a significant turning point in the battle/series where characters lost control of themselves due to an external and internal conflict. You can bring up SSJ3 as less so, but that would be a technicality based on an arc that is accepted as a light parody of itself. I don't care if you have a different opinion, I welcome it, but his post went right over your head and I'm not sure if you do that on purpose or not.

[Doctor.]

If I didn't reply to the other parts of his post, it's because a) I agree or b) I don't care. If I replied to another part, it's because I disagree. I could care less if it's something you deem a "technicality", it bothered me, I disagreed, so I explained my views on that particular subject, without compromising his entire point in the process. If my posts bother you so much, there's always the foe function.

[VintageSaiyan]

If I didn't reply to the other parts of his post, it's because a) I agree or b) I don't care.

So instead of taking the entirety of his post and responding to the point he was making, you could care less so long as you can zero in on a technicality you don't agree with. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Doctor.]

If I didn't reply to the other parts of his post, it's because a) I agree or b) I don't care.

So instead of taking the entirety of his post and responding to the point he was making, you could care less so long as you can zero in on a technicality you don't agree with. Thanks for clearing that up.

Don't ignore the "I agree" part, please. Perhaps you shouldn't talk about others replying to technicalities when you're doing the same thing. Again, if you can't stand my posts (for some reason), then use the foe function, I haven't broken any rules.