Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[supercat]

I can't recall at the moment, but wasn't Cell talking condescendingly to Freeza and laughing when Goku was schooling him?

You think the gap between Base Rild and Hyper Mega Rild is that gargantuan? From Innocent/Pure Boo level all the way to Evil Boo+ levels?

Freeza and Cell don't have to be above Rild, it's just my opinion that they are.

You forgot Dragonball Super, Battle of Gods, Fukkatsu no F & Yo Son Goku. Because of these new movies your EOZ levels are inaccurate.

Well to be fair, whenever I start GT discussions, I automatically assume we're treating the series as its own continuity.

I mean, throwing in FnF alone would result in Frieza one-shotting all of GT (barring SSJ4 Gogeta) with the utmost ease.

[h0kuten]

This list will follow the Vegeta vs Dodoria fight. A 9% gap will result in a stomp for the stronger fighter.

~5% Gap, fight is one sided for the stronger fighter.
~10% Gap, stomp range.
~15% Gap, Tank range. Blood drawn. Thrown off balance.
~20% Gap, Tank range. No blood drawn. Thrown off balance.
~25% Gap, Tank Range. No Blood Drawn. Not moved an inch.

Multipliers

Ssj=50x Base
SsjG2=62.5x Base
SsjG3=100xBase
Ssj2=100x Base

Goku
~Ssj 150,000,000

Frieza
~100% 120,000,000

Arrival of Trunks

Spoiler:

Goku
~Base 3,200,000
~Ssj 160,000,000

Trunks
~Base 3,100,000
~Ssj 155,000,000

Mecha Frieza
~Full Power 142,500,000

King Cold
~Full Power 100,000,000

Arrival Of The Androids

Spoiler:

Goku
~Base 3,800,000
~Sick 170,000,000
~Ssj 190,000,000

Vegeta
~Base 4,000,000
~Ssj 200,000,000

Trunks
~Base 3,600,000
~Ssj 180,000,000

Piccolo
~Full Power 170,000,000

Pre
Android 19
~FUll Power 80,000,000
Android 20
~Full Power 90,000,000

Post
Android 19
~Full Power 160,000,000
Android 20
~Full Power 150,000,000

Android 18
~Full Power 240,000,000

Android 17
~Full Power 250,000,000

Imperfect Cell
~Pre 220,000,000

Cell Is Complete

Spoiler:

Vegeta
~Base 9,600,000
~Ssj 480,000,000
~SsjG2 600,000,000

Trunks
~Base 8,800,000
~Ssj 440,000,000
~SSjG2 550,000,000
~SsJG3 880,000,000

Kamiccolo
~Full Power 250,000,000

Imperfect Cell
~Post 320,000,000

Android 16
~Full Power 320,000,000

Semi-Perfect Cell
~Initial 400,000,000
~Full Power 480,000,000

Perfect Cell
~Initial 550,000,000
~Silent Power Up 750,000,000

The Cell Games

Spoiler:

Goku
~Base 30,000,000
~50% 750,000,000
~Mssj 1,500,000,000

Gohan
~Base 40,000,000
~Mssj 2,000,000,000
~Ssj2 4,000,000,000

Vegeta
~Base 24,000,000
~Ssj 1,200,000,000

Trunks
~Base 24,000,000
~Ssj 1,200,000,000

Piccolo
~Full Power 1,100,000,000

Cell Junioer
~Full Power 1,300,000,000

Perfect Cell
~Full Power 2,400,000,000

Super Perfect Cell
~Full Power 3,600,000,000

The Majin Boo Saga

Spoiler:

Goku
~Base 45,000,000
~Mssj 2,250,000,000
~Ssj2 4,500,000,000
~Ssj3 18,000,000,000

Vegeta Pre-Majin
~Base 36,000,000
~Mssj 1,800,000,000
~Ssj2 3,600,000,000

Teen Gohan
~Base 30,000,000
~Mssj 1,500,000,000
~Ssj2 3,000,000,000

Gotenks Pre-ROST
~Base 2,750,000,000
~Ssj 5,500,000,000

Fat Majin Boo
~Full Power 5,400,000,000

Super Boo
~Full Power 75,000,000,000

Gotenks Post-ROST
~Base 5,000,000,000
~Ssj 10,000,000,000
~Ssj2 20,000,000,000
~Ssj3 80,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan
~Full Power 120,000,000,000

Bootenks
~Full Power 155,000,000,000

Boohan
~Full Power 195,000,000,000

Vegetto
~Base 100,000,000,000
~Mssj 500,000,000,000

Dragonball Super

Spoiler:

Goku
~Base 375,000,000
~Mssj 18,750,000,000
~Ssj2 37,500,000,000
~Ssj3 150,000,000,000

Vegeta
~Base 375,000,000
~MSsj 18,750,000,000
~Ssj2 37,500,000,000

Raging Vegeta
~Initial 20,000,000,000,000
~Gallic Gun 40,000,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan
~Full Power 120,000,000,000

Gotenks
~Base 5,000,000,000

Vegetto
~Base 800,000,000,000
~Ssj 4,000,000,000,000
~Ssj2 8,000,000,000,000
~Ssj3 32,000,000,000,000

Goku SSJG
~80% 240,000,000,000,000
~100% 300,000,000,000,000

Beerus
~10% 50,000,000,000,000
~50% 250,000,000,000,000
~70% 350,000,000,000,000
~100% 500,000,000,000,000

Whiss
~Full Power 750,000,000,000,000

[ahill1]

Vegeta
~Base 24,000,000
~Ssj 1,200,000,000

Trunks
~Base 24,000,000
~Ssj 1,200,000,000

Cell Junioer
~Full Power 1,300,000,000

Vegeta and Trunks vs Cell Jr was not a one sided fight. They were almost equals. I have Vegeta being 96% of Cell Jr and Trunks being 94~95% of Cell Jr.

Cell Games

Gohan SSJ 150

Goku SSJ 100

Cell Jr 62.5

Vegeta SSJ 60

Trunks SSJ 59

Kamiccolo 53

[h0kuten]

The Daizenshuu lists Vegeta & Trunks as equals.

[ahill1]

The Daizenshuu lists Vegeta & Trunks as equals.

The Daiz lists Vegeta, Trunks and Cell Jr as equals.

[h0kuten]

The Daizenshuu lists Vegeta & Trunks as equals.

The Daiz lists Vegeta, Trunks and Cell Jr as equals.

Nothing contradicts Vegeta & Trunks being equals but the manga directly contradicts the Cell Juniors being equal to them.

Trunks & Vegeta were barely holding their own and were losing the fight. The Cell Juniors are slightly stronger than the duo.

[Doctor.]

Trunks & Vegeta were barely holding their own and were losing the fight.

No they weren't. We had like two panels of the fight and they were even.

[h0kuten]

Trunks & Vegeta were barely holding their own and were losing the fight.

No they weren't. We had like two panels of the fight and they were even.

Cell states they were barely holding their own.

[ahill1]

Trunks & Vegeta were barely holding their own and were losing the fight.

No they weren't. We had like two panels of the fight and they were even.

Cell states they were barely holding their own.

Vegeta managed to hit a Cell Jr in the face; I think Vegeta is slightly stronger than Trunks; Cell Jr must be slightly stronger than Vegeta since Cell said that they were barely hold this own.

Vegeta is 97% of Cell Jr
Trunks is 97% of Vegeta

This works fine.

Piccolo being 88% of Vegeta is fine imo


Cell Jr 41,000,000,000
Vegeta SSJ 40,000,000,000
Trunks SSJ 39,000,000,000
Piccolo 35,200,000,000

[ZombieVito]

Vegeta managed to hit a Cell Jr in the face; I think Vegeta is slightly stronger than Trunks; Cell Jr must be slightly stronger than Vegeta since Cell said that they were barely hold this own.

Vegeta is 97% of Cell Jr
Trunks is 97% of Vegeta

This works fine.

Piccolo being 88% of Vegeta is fine imo


Cell Jr 41,000,000,000
Vegeta SSJ 40,000,000,000
Trunks SSJ 39,000,000,000
Piccolo 35,200,000,000

They are stated as equals. Give it up.

[h0kuten]

Dealing with percentages doesn't work. I just do it to experiment and for fun. I could counter your gaps with the Dodoria vs Vegeta fight, which is a 9% gap and resulted in a stomp in favor of Vegeta.

[ahill1]

Vegeta managed to hit a Cell Jr in the face; I think Vegeta is slightly stronger than Trunks; Cell Jr must be slightly stronger than Vegeta since Cell said that they were barely hold this own.

Vegeta is 97% of Cell Jr
Trunks is 97% of Vegeta

This works fine.

Piccolo being 88% of Vegeta is fine imo


Cell Jr 41,000,000,000
Vegeta SSJ 40,000,000,000
Trunks SSJ 39,000,000,000
Piccolo 35,200,000,000

They are stated as equals. Give it up.

Trunks = Vegeta = Cell Jr does not work good; I think Cell Jr >= Vegeta >= Trunks works better; Cell said that Vegeta was barely fighting evenly. Vegeta should be slightly stronger than Trunks just by Status quo.

Cell Jr 100
Vegeta 97
Trunks 94~95

[LightBing]

Dealing with percentages doesn't work. I just do it to experiment and for fun. I could counter your gaps with the Dodoria vs Vegeta fight, which is a 9% gap and resulted in a stomp in favor of Vegeta.

You shouldn't that the gaps so literally, Dodoria was panicked and afraid. That should be enough reason for him not use his power to it's full extent. Remember Nappa had a much better performance against Goku when he focused and regained his cool. Not every situation is the same.

[h0kuten]

Dealing with percentages doesn't work. I just do it to experiment and for fun. I could counter your gaps with the Dodoria vs Vegeta fight, which is a 9% gap and resulted in a stomp in favor of Vegeta.

You shouldn't that the gaps so literally, Dodoria was panicked and afraid. That should be enough reason for him not use his power to it's full extent. Remember Nappa had a much better performance against Goku when he focused and regained his cool. Not every situation is the same.

You missed the point of my post.

The point was not to use gaps and percentages so literally, haha.

[ahill1]

I think Vegeta being 60% of Goku works pretty well;

Cell >Goku > Cell ( Regeneration ) > Goku ( Post Kamehame-ha ) > Cell ( Post barrier ) > Vegeta, Trunks, Piccolo > Goku ( Post rapid ki blast )

There's a massive space between Goku ( original's power ) and Vegeta, which is why Vegeta being 60% of Goku makes a lot of sense.

Cell 112.5
Goku 100
Cell ( Regeneration ) 90
Goku ( post Kamehame-ha ) 85
Cell ( post barrier ) 80
Vegeta 60
Goku ( post rapid ki blast ) 40

Vegeta, Trunks and Piccolo show no signs of wanting to fight with Cell even after he's weakened a lot. Cell is still completely out of their league.

[ZombieVito]

Vegeta managed to hit a Cell Jr in the face; I think Vegeta is slightly stronger than Trunks; Cell Jr must be slightly stronger than Vegeta since Cell said that they were barely hold this own.

Vegeta is 97% of Cell Jr
Trunks is 97% of Vegeta

This works fine.

Piccolo being 88% of Vegeta is fine imo


Cell Jr 41,000,000,000
Vegeta SSJ 40,000,000,000
Trunks SSJ 39,000,000,000
Piccolo 35,200,000,000

They are stated as equals. Give it up.

Trunks = Vegeta = Cell Jr does not work good; I think Cell Jr >= Vegeta >= Trunks works better; Cell said that Vegeta was barely fighting evenly. Vegeta should be slightly stronger than Trunks just by Status quo.

Cell Jr 100
Vegeta 97
Trunks 94~95

What you think is irrelevant. It's stated all 3 all equal.

[Sayo-chan]

What you think is irrelevant. It's stated all 3 all equal.

I've already debunked this. Supplementary material holds no weight when it contradicts the manga. Trunks gets his ass kicked, Cell states they're all slipping. Everything points to them not being equal at all.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

These statements are enough for me to put the Cell kids slightly above Vegeta and Trunks, personally.

Chapter: 406 (DBZ 212), P14.2-5
Goku: “Watch out! These guys are ferociously strong!”
Cell: “It’s no use, you absolutely cannot win. They may be small, but they’re my children.”

Chapter: 407 (DBZ 213), P6.5
Vegeta: “Wh-what strength…! A bunch of little squirts like this [are doing this] to me…”

Chapter: 407 (DBZ 213), P7.5
Context: as the Cell Juniors beat up Goku and co.
Gohan: “Everyone’s going to be killed..!”

Chapter: 407 (DBZ 213), P5.3
Context: as the Cell Juniors beat everyone up
Cell (to Gohan): “If you don’t show your true worth soon, things will go past the point of no return. Look closely. Vegeta or Trunks are barely fighting evenly…Even Son Goku is in trouble, having lost his stamina…”

Also, looking at this page, you can see visible damage on Trunks as opposed to the Cell Junior looking completely unharmed.

Spoiler:

As for Vegeta and Trunks' power relationship, Vegeta's been slightly stronger the whole arc so I don't see a reason for it to be different here. Perhaps the gap slighty closed, but there should be a gap regardless in my opinion.

[LightBing]

I decided to make the power levels for the movies;starting with these. Haven't seen them in a long time, Episode of Bardock is bad, the last time I'll ever see it. Bardock Special was disappointing, I remember it being better. The whole future thing and how Bardock decides to believe it, is forced to a dissatisfying degree.

Bardock Special and Episode of Bardock

Spoiler:

Bardock
Pre Zenkai – 6.000 (During the fight in Kanassa)
Post Zenkai 1 – 10.000 (During confrontation with Freeza)
Post Zenkai 2 – 15.000 (After travelling to the past)
SSJ – 600.000

Freeza
1st Form – 530.000

Chilled
Base – 265.000

Bardock Team
Base – 1.000 to 3.000
Oozaru – 10.000 to 30.000

Dodoria
Base – 21.000

Dodoria’s Soldiers
7.000 to 9.000 (They thought themselves stronger than Bardock)

Vegeta
Base – 5.000

Kanassans
Base – 1.000 to 3.000 (Namekian like)

Saibaimen
Base – 2.000

Kakarrot
Base – 2

[h0kuten]

Whiss states that Goku has definitely become a god but implies that he may be much weaker than Beerus or other gods.

King Kai doesn't know what will happen to the Universe if Beerus decides to go all in. Does this mean Goku SSJG & Beerus will teleport to alternate planets and blow them up individually in the midst of their fight? NOPE. It means if Beerus goes all out he might actually destroy the entire Universe.

Goku states that the Super Saiyan God has surpassed his wildest dreams! Which means that it blows past his previous expectations of Beerus & Vegetto Super Saiyan 3 -perhaps making the gap even larger than expected and placing Vegeta even lower than 10% Beerus!

Goku is still amazed after he unleashes a weakened Kamehameha. Gohan catches on and says that isn't the true power of a Saiyan God. Yet a suppressed Goku SSJG surpassed any bar Vegetto has previously set.

Another thing I noticed that differed from Battle of Gods is the fact that the Z Warrior's can see the fight -Krillin especially.

Also it appears Goku is still heavily suppressed by this portion of the fight. Probably using only 80% of his power like he was in Battle of Gods. However, he didn't start out there, he was steadily increasing.

My new levels might look like this:

Beerus 100% ~ 100
Goku SSJG 100% ~ 60
Beerus 50% ~ 50 (During Episode 10)
Goku SSJG 80% ~ 48 (At the end of Episode 10)
Goku SSJG Initial ~ 30 (At the beginning of Episode 10 & steadily rising)
Beerus 10% ~ 10
Raging Vegeta ~ 7.5
Vegetto Ssj3 ~ 6 (Db Super)

I don't think having Vegetto any higher than that is accurate in the new series, anymore. We could give him the benefit of the doubt and throw him up to 20 at Super Saiyan 3. However, a 50% gap between SSJG Initial & Vegetto (at Goku's highest estimates) wouldn't blow Goku's mind the way it did in the new series. The multiple statements from Goku seem to indicate that his initial SSJG power level is light years beyond any predetermined power he had in mind for Vegetto.

Conclusively, I think the gap between Goku SSJG & Vegetto has gotten even larger.