Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

Maybe they're giving him low level regenerative powers to get rid of the whole Senzu bean plot device? The subs will likely clear it up.

[Blackstripe]

I have a feeling we've been given a lot more information this episode than we think. Once Herms' translations are posted, we might find out something interesting.

[Sora Saiyan]

This fight looks like it's gonna be good, also I wonder if Whis is protecting the earth when he pokes his staff on the ground. Either way we'll probably get a good show, and the Kaioshins are genuinely trying to stop the fight because it's so dangerous hasn't happened before. Just got to wait and see what happens for now.

[Raizel]

This fight looks like it's gonna be good, also I wonder if Whis is protecting the earth when he pokes his staff on the ground. Either way we'll probably get a good show, and the Kaioshins are genuinely trying to stop the fight because it's so dangerous hasn't happened before. Just got to wait and see what happens for now.

If Whis puts a barrier on Earth it will end ''why Earth is not destroyed?'' question.Maybe he pokes his staff so he can show Goku and Beerus' fight to Vegeta? (Like showing Goku vs Frieza to Beerus)

[Gorrilian]

Are near-death power-ups (zenkais?) still a thing? It looks like Goku got one in episode eleven. So much of the series so far has been driven by recovery from extreme trauma (including death, Kaioken backlash, and just plain humiliating defeats) that people would be crying out for a nerf if this was a video game.

Or, am I being paranoid and Goku just stopped holding back?

My point: would zenkais throw out any sense of scale or would we have some kind of formula to work around the sudden jumps in power? Did Goku start weaker than in BoG or is Beerus actually going to go all out?

[Birusu16]

Goku simply started weaker. There was no zenkai. That's the whole reason Beerus has been significantly holding back. He wants to help Goku adapt and bring out the full power of SSJG so he can then crush him. The elder kai pretty much states this in the episode.

[ekrolo2]

If Goku didn't look completely done after firing that Kamehameha, I could probably accept this. But as it stands, he magically heals a hole in his chest (I guess he and Vegeta are gonna start stealing Piccolo's stuff now too) and Natsu's himself some power out of his arse. It's not even like when Gohan got beaten by Cell since he didn't really use up any significant amount of strength beforehand.

[Doctor.]

If Goku didn't look completely done after firing that Kamehameha, I could probably accept this. But as it stands, he magically heals a hole in his chest (I guess he and Vegeta are gonna start stealing Piccolo's stuff now too) and Natsu's himself some power out of his arse. It's not even like when Gohan got beaten by Cell since he didn't really use up any significant amount of strength beforehand.

It's just as bullshit as Battle of Gods' finale to be fair. It was one of my main gripes with the movie. Hopefully this at least gets expanded upon in the future instead of being something random. This wasn't really a Natsu-esque power-up, I'd class Battle of Gods' as one, but not this one.

Edit: Yea, no, scratch that, it isn't really BS as the entire episode has been hinting at Goku not using SSG's full power yet, until we reach that scene at least. It's possible that some kind of regeneration is incorporated into a full power SSG.

[ekrolo2]

If Goku didn't look completely done after firing that Kamehameha, I could probably accept this. But as it stands, he magically heals a hole in his chest (I guess he and Vegeta are gonna start stealing Piccolo's stuff now too) and Natsu's himself some power out of his arse. It's not even like when Gohan got beaten by Cell since he didn't really use up any significant amount of strength beforehand.

It's just as bullshit as Battle of Gods' finale to be fair. It was one of my main gripes with the movie. Hopefully this at least gets expanded upon in the future instead of being something random. This wasn't really a Natsu-esque power-up, I'd class Battle of Gods' as one, but not this one.

Edit: Yea, no, scratch that, it isn't really BS as the entire episode has been hinting at Goku not using SSG's full power yet, until we reach that scene at least. It's possible that some kind of regeneration is incorporated into a full power SSG.

Well, the way I interpret the "Natsu power up" is basically the character getting really fired up for whatever reason during a battle and then they magically fight even better than before even if they should be completely boned. It's showed up before in the series like how Cell regenerating from the Instant Kamehameha leaves him noticeably weaker then when he does an even more taxing regeneration he's somehow even stronger and fully restored.

Even Goku kind of does this with Super Saiyan on Namek. I'd also say him stopping Beerus' ball at least makes sense in the context of the anime where visions again on Namek managed to stir him up to fight harder though I believe neither of those are in the manga at all. I think the way they did the fight made him look way too exhausted to pull this kind of stunt off, if he and Beerus had their full battle throughout the planet then went up into the air where Goku is on his last leg and gets stabbed, I think it would've worked a lot better to build tension and would've given the overall confrontation better momentum.

[Doctor.]

Well, the way I interpret the "Natsu power up" is basically the character getting really fired up for whatever reason during a battle and then they magically fight even better than before even if they should be completely boned. It's showed up before in the series like how Cell regenerating from the Instant Kamehameha leaves him noticeably weaker then when he does an even more taxing regeneration he's somehow even stronger and fully restored.

Even Goku kind of does this with Super Saiyan on Namek. I'd also say him stopping Beerus' ball at least makes sense in the context of the anime where visions again on Namek managed to stir him up to fight harder though I believe neither of those are in the manga at all. I think the way they did the fight made him look way too exhausted to pull this kind of stunt off, if he and Beerus had their full battle throughout the planet then went up into the air where Goku is on his last leg and gets stabbed, I think it would've worked a lot better to build tension and would've given the overall confrontation better momentum.

I get where you're coming from, but I think Battle of Gods fits that more. Goku was completely defeated, he had no need for the Super Saiyan God power anymore since he absorbed it, and then he magically transforms into Super Saiyan God after he sees a vision of his friends and family asking for his help (nakama power-ups, anyone?). That's what I'd class as a Natsu-esque power-up.

Now, in Super, the entire episode was building around that one scene. It was repeatedly stated by multiple characters that Goku still had not tapped into Super Saiyan God's full power. By the Kaioshin and by Beerus himself, who actively tries to force him do so by trying to destroy the Earth and trying to kill him. That scene isn't a bullshit power-up but more-so the culmination of all that foreshadowing present in the episode (and episode #10 to an extent, too, because both episodes are connected since Goku was adapting to the God power in that episode as well).

It'd be bullshit if they just said Goku was going 100% through the entire fight, then we got to the scene and he regenerated from the wound and got up more powerful than ever for no reason, or because he thinks his friends may die if he fails them then *cough* BoG *cough*.

[ekrolo2]

Well, the way I interpret the "Natsu power up" is basically the character getting really fired up for whatever reason during a battle and then they magically fight even better than before even if they should be completely boned. It's showed up before in the series like how Cell regenerating from the Instant Kamehameha leaves him noticeably weaker then when he does an even more taxing regeneration he's somehow even stronger and fully restored.

Even Goku kind of does this with Super Saiyan on Namek. I'd also say him stopping Beerus' ball at least makes sense in the context of the anime where visions again on Namek managed to stir him up to fight harder though I believe neither of those are in the manga at all. I think the way they did the fight made him look way too exhausted to pull this kind of stunt off, if he and Beerus had their full battle throughout the planet then went up into the air where Goku is on his last leg and gets stabbed, I think it would've worked a lot better to build tension and would've given the overall confrontation better momentum.

I get where you're coming from, but I think Battle of Gods fits that more. Goku was completely defeated, he had no need for the Super Saiyan God power anymore since he absorbed it, and then he magically transforms into Super Saiyan God after he sees a vision of his friends and family asking for his help (nakama power-ups, anyone?). That's what I'd class as a Natsu-esque power-up.

Now, in Super, the entire episode was building around that one scene. It was repeatedly stated by multiple characters that Goku still had not tapped into Super Saiyan God's full power. By the Kaioshin and by Beerus himself, who actively tries to force him do so by trying to destroy the Earth and trying to kill him. That scene isn't a bullshit power-up but more-so the culmination of all that foreshadowing present in the episode (and episode #10 to an extent, too, because both episodes are connected since Goku was adapting to the God power in that episode as well).

It'd be bullshit if they just said Goku was going 100% through the entire fight, then we got to the scene and he regenerated from the wound and got up more powerful than ever for no reason, or because he thinks his friends may die if he fails them then *cough* BoG *cough*.

I won't argue that the nakama power up isn't a thing when it comes to Natsu or BoG but at least I didn't find it annoying in BoG mostly because it's the most subtle, mercifully brief version of one I've seen in years lol. I do get the foreshadowing though I still don't think Goku should pose Beerus any bigger threat than he used to. I say this because if they keep that Goku is only a 6 and let's say he can only be a 4 pre-stabbing.

The battle itself, along with the injury seemed to take a lot out of him, especially the Kamehameha, let's say he spent nearly half his available power and dropped to a 2.1 or 2.2, him getting the rest of his dormant power should only marginally improve his performance in the following episode. I feel they made his performance up until this point a little too good to really justify his apparent struggling with the God ki.

That could be because the spend a good chunk of the fight just kind of messing around before Beerus gets a little more serious though. Regardless, I think the movie managed to show him struggling against Beerus well enough even in the more relaxed stage of the fight where Goku didn't seem so burned out he couldn't get an adrenaline rush later on. In the show I just think he's been beaten too badly and too severely already to buy him getting one, dormant power and all.

[Doctor.]

Well that's because we've already seen Battle of Gods and we know that Super Saiyan God isn't a big deal and that Beerus isn't even fighting anywhere near close to full power. Super for the most part feels underwhelming because Battle of Gods exists. I think this episode did well to convey the power a SSG has and I'm sure the next episode will convey a good shock once we learn how strong Beerus actually is.

[ekrolo2]

Well that's because we've already seen Battle of Gods and we know that Super Saiyan God isn't a big deal and that Beerus isn't even fighting anywhere near close to full power. Super for the most part feels underwhelming because Battle of Gods exists. I think this episode did well to convey the power a SSG has and I'm sure the next episode will convey a good shock once we learn how strong Beerus actually is.

Yeah that's basically the problem at the moment. I think if Toei refrained from releasing the real BoG extended cut and instead cut it into a handful of episodes for the "Battle of Gods" arc for Super I think the show would probably get a lot more love from me and others. Movie quality animation, filling in the gaps of what we already know, a sense of discovering something new weather its more interactions or information. Sure it would've deprived us of the dub for a good long while but I think this would've been a good way of re-using the film without it feeling so mediocre.

[dbzfan7]

But as it stands, he magically heals a hole in his chest (I guess he and Vegeta are gonna start stealing Piccolo's stuff now too) and Natsu's himself some power out of his arse.

Alright now they just need to steal the transfiguration beam from Boo or his level of regen, and then Goku and Vegeta have stolen pretty much every quality from the loser mortal cast.

[singsing]

But as it stands, he magically heals a hole in his chest (I guess he and Vegeta are gonna start stealing Piccolo's stuff now too) and Natsu's himself some power out of his arse.

Alright now they just need to steal the transfiguration beam from Boo or his level of regen, and then Goku and Vegeta have stolen pretty much every quality from the loser mortal cast.

Boo? Mortal? Are you foreshadowing Goku and Vegeta stealing Boo's immortality???

[dbzfan7]

But as it stands, he magically heals a hole in his chest (I guess he and Vegeta are gonna start stealing Piccolo's stuff now too) and Natsu's himself some power out of his arse.

Alright now they just need to steal the transfiguration beam from Boo or his level of regen, and then Goku and Vegeta have stolen pretty much every quality from the loser mortal cast.

Boo? Mortal? Are you foreshadowing Goku and Vegeta stealing Boo's immortality???

Well yeah cause we can't have some fat piece of shit have a quality above the greatness that is Goku and Vegeta....well more specifically Goku. Give it time and Vegeta will probably fall down again eventually to the home of infinite losers, occupied by everyone you may have liked who was part of the series cast. Goku and Vegeta will accidentally swallow a piece of Boo and get immortality from him.

[Doctor.]

Goku already stole Boo's immortality in GT.

[ekrolo2]

Goku already stole Boo's immortality in GT.

And if you really think about it, both he, Vegeta, Goten and Trunks took Piccolo's magic clothes with SSJ4 & fusion respectively.

[LightBing]

Just to reinforce my idea that Mutated Vegeta is weaker than SSJ Vegetto.

Minute: 11-12
Goku: “You still ain’t putting out all your power, are you?”
Beerus: “You can tell, huh? Sorry about that. I just thought that with someone like you, the fight would last longer if I let you get carried away.”
*off in the Kaioshin Realm*
East Kaioshin: “Ancestor, is Beerus-sama intentionally holding back to make it look like Goku’s beating him up?”
Elder Kaioshin: “Apparently.”
East: “Why would he do that?”
Elder: “Once he’s raised Goku all the way into a complete Super Saiyan God, then he’ll crush him with his full strength.”
East: “Huh? What’s the point of that?”
Elder: “Hmmm…For fun? Beerus-sama is scary like that, after all.”

To support my opinion: that Goku predicted Beerus to have much more power, than that he used, when they fought on King Kai's planet. He does it in this instance, he also predicted Cell to be much stronger, without fighting him.
Note: Goku was wrong and SSJG is stronger than the Vegetto he was imagining. Since he describes it, as a dimension he never thought was possible.

[Doctor.]

How does that support that Vegetto is stronger than rage Vegeta though?