I been missing for awhile. But I found a brilliant post to help the versus thread. Was gonna make a topic for it but it's better placed here. Shouts out to Tin Man.
Tin Man wrote:You know why you're here most likely, you want to either ask who would win in battle, or answer who would win.
In both I've seen a few mistakes, often made by new comers who, while having their heart in the right place, have made some mistakes, which I will show and try to showcase some methods to avoid.
First of all,[big]"The character you side with does not win every fight"[/big]
This is fine, even good, as talking about an invincible character is boring when discussing who wins a fight. Keep this in mind, if nothing else.
And without further ado.
[big]THE HERCULE EFFECT[/big]
So named for fighter Hercule, or Mr. Satan, who while being quite weak in the grand scheme of things, is thought by the populace of Earth to be stronger than both Cell and Buu. A clear example of the hype of a character being more powerful than the actual character, though this is in universe.
Examples of the Hercule effect are people like Broly or Batman, who while very powerful in their own right, are still overhyped to an insane degree. Broly is said to be more powerful than Beerus despite there being no evidence of such power in there, suppressed or otherwise. Batman on the other hand is said to be able to take down Superman despite having in all actuality a very poor record against him in both post crisis and New 52. Both are hyped past their abilities. Characters you like or even idolize are particularly susceptible to this.
In addition there are also numerous cases of people underestimating someone, this what I like to call
[big]THE KRILLIN EFFECT[/big]
This is when a character is more powerful then the general perception, usually because their showings are quite weak, like with one of the best examples: Krillin. He is the strongest human alive, but is often thought of as quite a weak fighter, with nothing going for him in a fight. This is because while he certainly has become stronger, the villains in each new arc are far more powerful, and as such he's usually not perceived as the master that he is.
In addition to Krillin and Dan are also examples of the Krillin effect. both being quite accomplished despite not being thought of as such. Krillin is thought of as incompetent but is often fighting aliens that could annihilate most of humanity without suffering a single injury. Dan is thought of as a fighter who knows nothing about fighting, but actually invented his own style, can shoot fire out of his hands, and can give lectures on chi, showing that he's actually quite a good fighter, he's just stuck in the street fighter universe where all the other playable characters are superior to him. Characters that are outclassed often are on the receiving end of this
There are plenty of ways to mitigate these mistakes however:
When trying to choose an opponent, check if perhaps they have a respect thread on them. Respect threads are an oddity in Other versus as they are not actually threads about X vs Y but about the power an individual or group has. They are trustworthy and back up their claims on what a character can do with official material, usually either passages from a book, or scans from a comic showcasing them performing the exact feat they are talking about. These will give you a good indicator on what a character can do at maximum, as they often show the high points of a character, such as Doctor Doom resisting a force of mind control that has successfully taken over all of Earth.
If a respect thread is not available, and even if it is, you should do a little bit of research on the characters you are pitting against each other. Even a simple search on google can often net enough information to help you to understand if the characters are a good match for each other.
If you can, take a look at the source material of the character to see exactly what their feats are, it's arguably the best source of information you get, though it may be hard to find or watch in it's entirety.
Prepare to be wrong, you will not always have the correct answer, and perhaps someone may prove more knowledgeable than you on a matter. Discovery is a reward, even when it breaks preconceptions.
Prepare to defend your statements, if you say X wins in a fight against Y, people will want to know why. Even if you think it is obvious, it is still better to explain your position in the same post you state them, in order to add to the conversation. Without it all people can really do is ask why you hold the position. By defending your position you allow others to critique it, hopefully giving you new information in the process, and debating can usually be a reward in itself.
Do not be afraid to ask a question if you do not think you are knowledgeable enough to answer the opening post correctly. It is very likely that the OP will come down him/herself to inform you about the character, and from there you can form a position to take. Ask and you shall receive.
There is also a tendency to make assumptions in debates about a character's power via factors like how they're presented and treated in the context of the story, you should in general work to avoid this and rely solely on objective feats that have happened and have been stated in the story. And while we appreciate the effort, please do not try to make calculations based on what happens just on a page, this actually has a name on here, [big]lolcals[/big]. lolcals are more or less drawing assumptions and using physics or other sciences to determine the capabilities of a character, this is often done with Dragon Ball characters, as they usually lack directly stated feats like how much they lift in each form. For example, one often brought up is that Goku is light speed based on how it seems instantaneous when Goku goes to Roshi, picks up his sun glasses, uses them to avoid the effects of Tien's solar flare, and then punches him. While it looks good on paper, it brings a lot of questions up, like where did all that speed go in Z? Why did it take piccolo some time to catch up to Gotenks? And how does Gohan barely get to school on time despite rushing? If they are light speed, why is distance a concern? This is often the issue with lolcals.
In fact they had become such a problem that there is a rule in place expressly forbidding calculations like this, and alluding to calculations. Please save yourself some time, and keep the calculations to numbers established in the story.
In addition, I would like to talk about what I call
[big]THE GOKU VS SUPERMAN EFFECT[/big]
So named for the famous debate on the internet, this is not so much mistakes that create a silly match up, or a premature conclusion, as one that poisons a discussion, and I feel is something to address, this may feel a bit silly to say, but it still needs saying.
Just because a character loses, does not mean that the character is a worse one. Just because you like a character, does not mean s/he is the better fighter. Do not take offence when someone says that X stomps a character you like, if you do not believe this is the case, calmly and reasonably debate them, vocalize your disagreement, but do it civilly. If you take to name calling, insults, and other theatrics, you will help no one, and all you will do is poison the discussion, and make the character you support look bad by association.
In the end a character's relative strength to another, likely outside of their universe, has no bearing on their achievements in universe, even though Goku lost to Beerus, he is still an amazing fighter and a wonderful character.
And of course, have fun debating ^_^
