Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

It's because it's just a huge assumption based on almost nothing. He snapped, he got pissed, he took Beerus by surprise, he fired a Galick Gun which didn't leave so much as a scratch then was casually knocked out.

His anger likely made him tap into some dormant Super Saiyan power that's it, I don't see it as being any more complex than that. Goku snapped his power exploded, Gohan snapped his power exploded and now it's happened to Vegeta.

[dbzfan7]

It's Dragon Ball Super logic. Nothing else to really add. I wouldn't say Battle of Gods logic though as they didn't have "that" statement.

[Blackstripe]

It's Dragon Ball Super logic. Nothing else to really add. I wouldn't say Battle of Gods logic though as they didn't have "that" statement.

No, they arguably had something worse: Vegeta made Beerus bleed in BoG.

[dbzfan7]

It's Dragon Ball Super logic. Nothing else to really add. I wouldn't say Battle of Gods logic though as they didn't have "that" statement.

No, they arguably had something worse: Vegeta made Beerus bleed in BoG.

I can prick my finger and bleed, and not get hurt. I don't think that's the same at all. Vegeta's been punched and bled many times, then showed he wasn't hurt at all. Beerus bleeding means nothing. You can bleed and not be hurt. I'll take bleed over LOLRAGETA SUPER VEGETTO LOL!

[Blackstripe]

I can prick my finger and bleed, and not get hurt. I don't think that's the same at all. Vegeta's been punched and bled many times, then showed he wasn't hurt at all. Beerus bleeding means nothing. You can bleed and not be hurt. I'll take bleed over LOLRAGETA SUPER VEGETTO LOL!

A finger prick isn't the same as getting punched in the face and blood flying out. Whenever Vegeta got hit and bled (say, against Android 19 or Semiperfect Cell) his head would be thrown back, and then he would return with a smirk and tiny trickle of blood running down his lip.

Here, Vegeta's knocking Beerus everywhere and blood is flying out. It really doesn't feel the same to me.

But hey, we all have our preferences I suppose.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The Goku vs Beerus fight was a lot closer than what Rageta vs Beerus was. Especially during the cloud scene where they were practically even and Goku was able to hurt him a couple times throughout that fight.

Whereas against Vegeta, Beerus wasn't hurt and was acting pretty nonchalant about it all and probably only used 10% at the end to stop the Galick Gun.

There's no way SSJG Goku is as little as 7x more powerful than Rageta.

The fight between Vegeta & Beerus is too short to get to this conclusion. It's not even an actual fight, since it's basically Vegeta attacking Beerus. Both fights ended with Beerus not having any actual damage. I'm not saying that their difference is exactly x7, but it has to be similar. Why would Beerus use 10% of his power when Vegeta is as strong as, say, his 0.5% or 3%?

It's because it's just a huge assumption based on almost nothing. He snapped, he got pissed, he took Beerus by surprise, he fired a Galick Gun which didn't leave so much as a scratch then was casually knocked out.

His anger likely made him tap into some dormant Super Saiyan power that's it, I don't see it as being any more complex than that. Goku snapped his power exploded, Gohan snapped his power exploded and now it's happened to Vegeta.

It's not baseless. Vegeta has been doing intense training for years, has pushed his body to his limits, and Babidi drew out his dormant powers beyond their limits. The only dormant powers he should have left, based on what we know, should be his SS3 dormant powers. But after he got angry as a Super Saiyan 2, he become not only stronger than he would have been as a Super Saiyan 3, he surpassed Ultimate Gohan (who, as a Saiyan Halfling, had far greater dormant powers than him, and he had them drawn out far, far, faa~aar beyond their limits), and he apparently even surpassed Super Vegetto, according to Super. That's some huge power boost, and one would wonder why he didn't get such a boost when his son died in front of his eyes. What was different back then? He wasn't righteous back then. The only form beyond SS3 is SSG, and Vegeta's power is between these forms... it makes the most sense, IMO.

[Sora Saiyan]

The fight between Vegeta & Beerus is too short to get to this conclusion. It's not even an actual fight, since it's basically Vegeta attacking Beerus. Both fights ended with Beerus not having any actual damage. I'm not saying that their difference is exactly x7, but it has to be similar. Why would Beerus use 10% of his power when Vegeta is as strong as, say, his 0.5% or 3%?

I only believe Vegeta was at 3% Beerus, he actually did nothing to Beerus, no scratch or anything, and we've seen characters bleed with a 2x difference after taking a direct hit. If anything it was more like Beerus was testing Vegeta and he never hit the heights Beerus was hoping for. Well that's how I view it anyway, but I do like your theory that Vegeta tapped into a fraction of his SSJG power.

[Blackstripe]

Also, for posterity, since I feel it was overlooked:

Vegeta seems to be able to sense/see what's happening in Gokuu's fight with Beerus in episode 11, even while everyone in Bulma's ship can't. He smirks when Gokuu rises again after being impaled by Beerus, and seems aware of the situation.

[Bullza]

The fight between Vegeta & Beerus is too short to get to this conclusion. It's not even an actual fight, since it's basically Vegeta attacking Beerus.

There's plenty to go on, what you just said is kind of the point. Vegeta attacked Beerus, it merely took him by surprise but he wasn't harmed or even taking him seriously, you can see that in his face. After stopping the Galick gun he did this little backhand on Vegeta and that was it, he was defeated whereas Goku was taking punches and kicks left and right and was still standing. So it was completely different when he fought Goku, he may not have been using 100% of his power but he was still clearly fighting seriously when fighting at 70%.

He wasn't all that hurt by the end of the battle but Goku did hurt him enough when he hit him in the cave to anger him and destroy it, he was landing blows on Beerus when they were fighting in the clouds and he was clearly fighting seriously and he had a much more fearful expression of the Kamehameha than he did of the Galick Gun.

It's not baseless. Vegeta has been doing intense training for years, has pushed his body to his limits, and Babidi drew out his dormant powers beyond their limits. The only dormant powers he should have left, based on what we know, should be his SS3 dormant powers.

I don't really believe in that whole limits thing. They said that about Gohan and Krillin but they still got stronger and there's been other examples. Yeah he had a ridiculous power boost but other characters have had that before when they've tapped into Super Saiyan power. All it seems is that that is what happened with Vegeta to a greater extent and we don't know if he's surpassed Super Vegito.

There's never been any mention of anyone tapping into dormant God power before.

[dbzfan7]

I can prick my finger and bleed, and not get hurt. I don't think that's the same at all. Vegeta's been punched and bled many times, then showed he wasn't hurt at all. Beerus bleeding means nothing. You can bleed and not be hurt. I'll take bleed over LOLRAGETA SUPER VEGETTO LOL!

A finger prick isn't the same as getting punched in the face and blood flying out. Whenever Vegeta got hit and bled (say, against Android 19 or Semiperfect Cell) his head would be thrown back, and then he would return with a smirk and tiny trickle of blood running down his lip.

Here, Vegeta's knocking Beerus everywhere and blood is flying out. It really doesn't feel the same to me.

But hey, we all have our preferences I suppose.

Fair enough. Bleeding can be easily caused by a lot of things. Even if no blood appeared in Super, it's mainly cause they cut back on that now a days anyways, rather than a straight feat change.

There's never been any mention of anyone tapping into dormant God power before.

There's no real point in debating a theory. There is no mention of such a thing by the characters and I doubt they'll ever say such a thing. Yusuke Watanabe originally called the scene silly and I simply just call it Super logic just like GT logic has been thrown around.

[Sora Saiyan]

dbzfan7 I thought what Yusuke Watanabe said about Vegetas silly scene was to do with Bulma getting slapped. He says something about "that silly scene was also necessary as a lead to make it stand out" I just never understood how Vegeta fighting Beerus could be called silly, but the Bulma scene before is much more "silly".

[dbzfan7]

dbzfan7 I thought what Yusuke Watanabe said about Vegetas silly scene was to do with Bulma getting slapped. He says something about "that silly scene was also necessary as a lead to make it stand out" I just never understood how Vegeta fighting Beerus could be called silly, but the Bulma scene before is much more "silly".

Ah well looking at it again, I think he means the bingo scene was the silly one that lead into LOLRAGETA. I still take it all as silly, cause it's fucking ludicrous which Super makes even more ludicrous. Hence LOL SUPER/SUPER LOGIC I go with just like LOL GT/GT LOGIC has been used to dismiss nonsense.

[goku the krump dancer]

Maybe I missed something, but how does Vegeta being 'better" than Goku make him better than or equal to Vegetto? Is it because folks assume that in order to make Beerus budge you at least have to be at Vegetto's level?

[singsing]

Maybe I missed something, but how does Vegeta being 'better" than Goku make him better than or equal to Vegetto? Is it because folks assume that in order to make Beerus budge you at least have to be at Vegetto's level?

That stupid 10% line.

[goku the krump dancer]

Maybe I missed something, but how does Vegeta being 'better" than Goku make him better than or equal to Vegetto? Is it because folks assume that in order to make Beerus budge you at least have to be at Vegetto's level?

That stupid 10% line.

I still don't see the relation, all that line means is that unlike for Goku Beerus used 10 percent of his power to subdue Vegeta. He could still Very much need at least 20% to beat Vegetto which still pales in comparison to the 70% for Godku.

[Bullza]

What people were getting at was if SSJG Goku was 60% of Beerus then SSJ3 Vegito would be 40-50%, SSJ2 Vegito would be 8-10% and Super Vegito would be 4-5% or maybe even less.

And so if Beerus had to use 10% against Vegeta then Vegeta could be around the same or more than Super Vegito if he were 5% or more.

Simply put anyway.

[goku the krump dancer]

Thing is, how do people know where Vegetto would be in comparison to Godku? let alone angry Vegeta.

[singsing]

Thing is, how do people know where Vegetto would be in comparison to Godku? let alone angry Vegeta.

We're extrapolating given the information we know about SSG compared to Beerus and the amount of energy Beerus uses, as well as statements saying Vegetto wouldn't be enough to beat Beerus, and trying to fit those in with the stupid percentages that have been spewed out.

[Hugo Boss]

We know Vegetto and Pissed Vegeta are both stronger than Goku and Godku is far stronger than Goku. Where they exactly compare to each other is unclear.

[Bullza]

We know SSJG Goku is 60% as strong as Beerus when Goku is at 100% power. When he was at 80% power he would have been 48% of Beerus' full power and it was here where Goku said he didn't know a power level like this existed.

So SSJ3 Vegito would be less than 48%.

This is all assuming a lot though. Was Goku referring to ordinary fusion with Vegeta or the more effective potara method? Was whoever wrote it only thinking of Super Vegito and not SSJ3 Vegito who has never appeared?

Would Goku even know what kind of power SSJ3 Vegito had or Super Vegito even? Making the "didn't know such a power existed" line redundant as Goku technically didnt exist once they'd fused.