Minute: 20
Context: after Goku regains consciousness following his fight with Beerus
Goku: “This ain’t good. The only way to get stronger would be to merge with Vegeta…and even then, I don’t think I could win.”
Significance: Pretty much the same line originally appeared in the extended edition of BoG. The word for “merge” here is 合体/gattai, which in Japanese is used to refer to both Potara fusion and the Fusion dance. Though in Japanese the proper name for the Metamorean dance-style Fusion is simply the English word "Fusion" (フュージョン/Fuujon), this is treated as a proper noun and the process itself is referred to with Japanese words for fusing/merging such as 融合/yuugou and 合体/gattai. Goku even introduces the Fusion dance as a 合体技/gattai-waza, "merging technique", when the concept makes its debut in chapter 469. On the other hand, the process of fusing with the Potara is always described as 合体/gattai, and not with the English word "Fusion" or the Japanese 融合/yuugou.
Vegito is nowhere near as powerful as half of Beerus's power.
Minute: 22~23
Context: During the next episode preview, Goku talks about Vegeta's power-up
Goku: "I ain't never seen such awesome power in Vegeta before! I might just be able to see Beerus-sama get serious!"
Goku seemed to have more faith in Enraged Vegeta to fight Beerus than in Vegito. Knowing that Beerus only need 10 % of his power to easily block Vegeta's Garlic Gun with absolutely no damage, Goku underestimated him even when he thought that Vegito can't win against Beerus. It was a preview, but it give us an accurate indication of Goku's thought about Vegeta's power.
Bullza wrote:There's plenty to go on, what you just said is kind of the point. Vegeta attacked Beerus, it merely took him by surprise but he wasn't harmed or even taking him seriously, you can see that in his face. After stopping the Galick gun he did this little backhand on Vegeta and that was it, he was defeated whereas Goku was taking punches and kicks left and right and was still standing. So it was completely different when he fought Goku, he may not have been using 100% of his power but he was still clearly fighting seriously when fighting at 70%.
He wasn't all that hurt by the end of the battle but Goku did hurt him enough when he hit him in the cave to anger him and destroy it, he was landing blows on Beerus when they were fighting in the clouds and he was clearly fighting seriously and he had a much more fearful expression of the Kamehameha than he did of the Galick Gun.
Beerus is in the exact same state after both fights. The difference is that he didn't bother to fight Vegeta because he was too weak, and he just allowed him to go all-out on him, while he bothered to fight Goku because he was the Super Saiyan God.
I don't really believe in that whole limits thing. They said that about Gohan and Krillin but they still got stronger and there's been other examples. Yeah he had a ridiculous power boost but other characters have had that before when they've tapped into Super Saiyan power. All it seems is that that is what happened with Vegeta to a greater extent and we don't know if he's surpassed Super Vegito.
Saichouro's ability wasn't said to draw out dormant powers to their limits, it just drew out dormant powers. It's obvious that it didn't draw out all of Gohan's powers out after all, since a few chapters after that he is still getting rage boosts.
There's never been any mention of anyone tapping into dormant God power before.
And? There is a first time for everything.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Yeah AFTER the fight Beerus is in no worse shape against Goku than he was against Vegeta but during the fight he was clearly a lot more serious when fighting Goku.
Goku was a lot closer to Beerus' 70% than Vegeta was to Beerus' 10%. So Vegeta is definitley less than 8.5% of Beerus and thus not nearly only 6-7x weaker than Goku so that example doesn't fit anyway.
Well the Universe shaker punch was there! Unfortunately I had an advertisement in the middle so I missed some of it. What was that wave thing supposed to be? It didn't look like just a shockwave.
I imagine Supreme Kai probably said some interesting things about it too. Probably about destroying the Universe.
The shock-wave from the beam clash between SSJG Goku's Kamehameha and Beerus atom shaped ki attack caused a planet to disintegrate.
Holy shit.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
1. Their clashes are felt all throughout the universe and beyond reaching Supreme Kai's planet
2.The shock waves of the KHH and Beerus attack destroyed a random planet in the universe AND it was felt from on Supreme Kai's planet AND Old kai's planet as well
But seriously I'm kinda surprised they included all that.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
I suppose I should ask here because it'll get lost in the other thread but what were they doing for half the episode with them clashing fists and then all of a sudden they clashed fists and there was no shockwave? And then they were clashing and there were these white lines. I didn't get that nor did I really get what that slow moving wave was supposed to be, I couldn't tell if it was a shockwave or something else.
Somehow they destroyed a planet in the distance but the people on earth only got knocked on their ass?
Did Dragon Ball really just go from maybe star busting to universe busting in like 3 minutes?
Bullza wrote:I suppose I should ask here because it'll get lost in the other thread but what were they doing for half the episode with them clashing fists and then all of a sudden they clashed fists and there was no shockwave? And then they were clashing and there were these white lines. I didn't get that nor did I really get what that slow moving wave was supposed to be, I couldn't tell if it was a shockwave or something else.
Somehow they destroyed a planet in the distance but the people on earth only got knocked on their ass?
Guess it's that ki cancellation. Yay a new technique for Dues Ex Goku!
It's Earth toonforce. Officially stronger than Bugs Bunny.
Raizel wrote:I seriously believe they can destroy the universe now.
Without a doubt. The GT universe has got absolutely nothing on the God-Tier characters in Super now. They are ants compared to likes of SSJG Goku, Beerus and Whis. The God-tier simply have too many OP statements and feats to legitimately back up the statements that it makes it hard to favor any of the top-tier characters from GT against them. SSJG Goku at this stage would solo the GT universe.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
I wanna see the subtitles but it's starting to look more and more like they really could be Universe level. Unfortunately I don't think it's ever going to be something we'll see, it was cool that they destroyed a planet and all but couldn't they have done something different and destroyed a star perhaps? Universe busters and the most destructive feat shown is just a planet blowing up.
Is Beerus even fighting at 70% in this version or is he really going all out?
Ah Herms also said this
The reason Goku and Beerus will destroy the universe: the destructive power increases the further it gets from the "generation point". So on Earth right by where they're fighting, people get knocked over. Further out, planets get destroyed. Further still, even bigger stuff.
That explains that anyway.
Last edited by Bullza on Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just for your general information, as per Herms' twitter (which has already been linked up above):
The reason Goku and Beerus will destroy the universe: the destructive power increases the further it gets from the "generation point". So on Earth right by where they're fighting, people get knocked over. Further out, planets get destroyed. Further still, even bigger stuff.
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Just for your general information, as per Herms' twitter (which has already been linked up above):
The reason Goku and Beerus will destroy the universe: the destructive power increases the further it gets from the "generation point". So on Earth right by where they're fighting, people get knocked over. Further out, planets get destroyed. Further still, even bigger stuff.
Hey! I was right!
If you look a few pages back, I actually suggested it was because the Earth was the epicenter, or "eye" of the storm, and that was why it survived!
Pretty sure some anti-dragon ball guys will still say,''The Universe on DBZ contains only 4 galaxy,so its not a great feat compared to superman,thor etc...''
This is the end of GT vs Gods now, this feat was just ridiculous! And we still haven't seen the full power of SSJG and Beerus. Wow just wow.
It makes me wonder how many planets were actually disintegrated since it should be at that power at that distance everywhere.
