Is Goku truly a Low-level Saiyan?

Anonymous Friend · Post by **Anonymous Friend** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:26 am

As I was going thru the story mode of Budokai Tenkaichi 2 for the 4th time. I just kinda felt the realization of what was I repeatedly heard through much or the first two sagas.

If you look at his first encounters with others of his race, you would see just how weak he in comparison. Raditz would have desimated him if not for Piccolo. If he had not have train with King Kai, Nappa would have surely killed him. And, although their match was somewhat even, Vegeta was still more or less the victor in their first fight. On Namek, without the gravity training and Super Saiyan transformation, there wouldn't have been a happy ending.

gohanku · Post by **gohanku** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:35 am

Well, no one is born super powerful, expect for Broli but with training like Goku said:"Even a low-level saiyan can surpass an elite!"

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:50 am

It was only because of the training on Kaio's 10x-Gravity planet that Goku became as strong as he did by the fight (OVER 9,000!!!!...or 9,042 XD). As Kaio pointed out, training on his planet for 70 days was equivalent to training for several thousand years on Earth (referencing the Ocean dub). Goku trained without having to worry about overwhelming his body to death, a factor that proved advantageous as he had to train nonstop after the lengthy travel on Snake Way. This is the reason he was able to advance as far as he could later on in the Buu arc, because he literally had up to 7 years of nonstop training on Grand Kaio's planet with hundreds of other highly trained aliens, it's no wonder he got beyond SSJ2.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:16 am

Personally, I see it the same way as the "hard work vs. genius" sort of tone that Naruto has. Goku would be the hard worker and most of his enemies are geniuses. Almost everyone he's fought throughout DBZ has gained their strength through genetics or magic or something. He overcame all those shortcuts with hard work.

So, yes, he is low-level. Or at least he was. He overcame that shortcoming.

Maphisto86 · Post by **Maphisto86** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:31 pm

Had Goku been raised as a normal saiyan he might not have become as strong as he did. However I think he would have at least been on par with his brother Raditz or even stronger though not surpassing Prince Vegeta.

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:25 am

Yep, and if Naruto had never met Ero-Sennin, Gaara would've killed them all.

The same if Luffy never had the Gum Gum fruit.

Or if Ichigo never had those powers and/or had met Rukia

But basically you're right. Things happen for a reason I guess.

EDIT: This all goes back to Goku hitting his head as a baby.

Magica · Post by **Magica** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:27 am

Maphisto86 wrote:Had Goku been raised as a normal saiyan he might not have become as strong as he did. However I think he would have at least been on par with his brother Raditz or even stronger though not surpassing Prince Vegeta.

It makes me wonder how much Saiyajin are allowed to grow as far as their power goes. Other than Freeza's supposed fear, maybe the higher class try to limit the lower from going higher than their set power.

fps_anth · Post by **fps_anth** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:33 am

If he never bumped his head as a child, I'm pretty sure that Goku would still have been a low level saiyajin. Like Big Momma said, it's the same as if Luffy didn't eat the Gomo Gomo Fruit. He'd still be strong, but definately not as strong.

Maphisto86 · Post by **Maphisto86** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:32 am

Magica wrote:
Maphisto86 wrote:Had Goku been raised as a normal saiyan he might not have become as strong as he did. However I think he would have at least been on par with his brother Raditz or even stronger though not surpassing Prince Vegeta.
It makes me wonder how much Saiyajin are allowed to grow as far as their power goes. Other than Freeza's supposed fear, maybe the higher class try to limit the lower from going higher than their set power.

Possibly though I think that is the opposite of what saiyans try to achieve. I personally just see it as a class conflict with the lower class pragmatic people and upper class, elite who have a big ego even by saiyan standards. I doubt many lower class get close to rivaling the elite (except the likes of Bardock who "always came back half dead").

KinoFourpaws · Post by **KinoFourpaws** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:41 am

Kendamu wrote:Personally, I see it the same way as the "hard work vs. genius" sort of tone that Naruto has. Goku would be the hard worker and most of his enemies are geniuses. Almost everyone he's fought throughout DBZ has gained their strength through genetics or magic or something. He overcame all those shortcuts with hard work.

So, yes, he is low-level. Or at least he was. He overcame that shortcoming.

Or Goku could just be a "genius of hard work" just like Rock Lee is. Yeah. Rock Lee? Remember him? Makes Naruto look like he's sitting on his ass all day.

But all three go by the same principle, methinks. o.o

This makes me want to doodle a tribute piece between Goku and Rock Lee now. :3

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:26 pm

Hey, its Kino! Long time no talk!

Getting on topic... You're a low class saiyan!

I think I said something about saiyans not being able to move up in ranks due to their power or family. Even if Vegeta was a weak baby, I'm sure he'd still be considered an elite because he is a prince.

Same with Goku: Seeing how Bardock was a lower class saiyan, Goku was basically "branded" as one. But yeah, as others posted, its more of a hardwork/ underdog thing. With hard work you can achieve, yadda-yadda-yadda, this is your brain on drugs, etc.
-Rick

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:09 pm

Mr.Piccolo wrote:With hard work and a limitless supply of HIDDEN POWAH!1! you can achieve, yadda-yadda-yadda, this is your brain on drugs, etc.
-Rick

Fixed it for ya, buddy.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:40 pm

I always thought Goku as somebody who "worked smart" whereas Vegeta was the one who simply "worked hard." Vegeta would kill himself in those gravity chambers day in and day out then Goku would figure out some way to get a huge power boost without all that.

Payne222 · Post by **Payne222** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:08 pm

Goku a low-class Saiya-Jin. I guess by birth ranking...but that's it. He saved the Earth a bagillion times! Low class Saiya-Jin, I spit at that! *spit*

Pedro The Hutt · Post by **Pedro The Hutt** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:41 pm

KinoFourpaws wrote: This makes me want to doodle a tribute piece between Goku and Rock Lee now. :3

Do it, you know you want to! ;D

And like others said, Goku definitely isn't a low-class Saiyajin, considering he's the one that has to save earth over and over again where the supposed elite fail. ^.^

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:28 pm

KinoFourpaws wrote:
Or Goku could just be a "genius of hard work" just like Rock Lee is. Yeah. Rock Lee? Remember him? Makes Naruto look like he's sitting on his ass all day. But all three go by the same principle, methinks. o.o

This makes me want to doodle a tribute piece between Goku and Rock Lee now. :3

I don't want to debate Naruto on a Dragonball forum, but just wait until part 2 of the manga if you aren't already there. You'll see some hard training on Naruto's part.

But, yeah, Rock Lee was who I was thinking of when I came up with that analogy.

Kanzenshuu

Is Goku truly a Low-level Saiyan?

Is Goku truly a Low-level Saiyan?

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