Why was SSG chosen over SSJ4?

[Xeztin]

Basically as the title says, why was Super Saiyan God chosen to be used in DB Super instead of following the normal formula of continuing to Super Saiyan 4 ?
My opinion is that Toriyama intended SSJ 3 to be the last ever, because of the hair length.
On top of that it would have gotten ridiculous at some point because if there was a redesign of Super Saiyan 4, people would have wanted 5 and the numbering would have gotten really stale.
GT also used SSJ 4 and if Toriyama wouldn't use that design himself, and created his own version it would have probably confused a lot of people so he ditched SSJ 4 altogether.
What are your guy's thoughts on this?

[dbzfan7]

Because the battle of gods script had God of Destruction and Super Saiyan God before Toriyama was on board. Considering they're rehashing Battle of Gods, of course SSJG is going to be used again as that was what in that film. SSJ4 was designed by someone else entirely. God also has a more grandiose name to it than simply the 4th level of Super Saiyan. God wasn't chosen over SSJ4. They simply adapted the movies, and hence SSJG. Super Saiyan 4 is from GT, which I doubt they'd take from, even if SSJ4 deserves the title of SSJ God more than SSJ God does.

[Bullza]

Hey, Hey! Get your own avatar!

And yeah it's obvious why they used SSJG, it's the "new" form created by Toriyama himself. He's writing a saga that follows on from Battle of Gods where the form is used so it wouldn't make sense to use SSJ4 which is another timeline and after these events anyway.

[Hellspawn28]

SSjG is more relevant and SSj4 hasn't been a major thing since the late 90's.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Because TOEI still use Super Saiyan 4 in video games, figures etc and so they needed something that wouldnt erase that and hence SSG. That way they could still make money off of SS4 and now SSG & SSGSS too. Not to mention that SSG is completely different to the normal SS transformations so it doesn't make sense to add a 4, 5 or 6 at the end of them.

[FortuneSSJ]

Because they don't want a new SSJ4.
And SG was in BOG script since the beginning with the God of Destruction.

[HybridSaiyan]

Because they're stupid. The whole god thing ruined Dragon Ball. Pretty much those who have God Ki are pretty indestructible which means God > SSJ4. God > Everything. Boring, very boring. It's a shame because SSJ4 has a design that suits Saiyans and resembles the Oozaru.
Same the with the Blue color swap. Bluper Cyan was an ass pull beyond anything.

[Bullza]

That doesn't even make sense. Frieza didn't have God Ki and he was stronger than either Goku or Vegeta.

[FortuneSSJ]

Because they're stupid. The whole god thing ruined Dragon Ball. Pretty much those who have God Ki are pretty indestructible which means God > SSJ4. God > Everything. Boring, very boring. It's a shame because SSJ4 has a design that suits Saiyans and resembles the Oozaru.
Same the with the Blue color swap. Bluper Cyan was an ass pull beyond anything.

Define ruined. Because the series is selling more than ever.
And you don't know what asspull is, it seems.

Apparently people that are mad about the God concept, is because they expected a yellow ssj4, ssj5, ssj6 etc...and never saw the god forms pattern coming.
Unpredictable things are the best.

[Hellspawn28]

You also have to keep up with the current times. The god forms are Goku's newest forms and they are always go to market them as the most powerful since they are more relevant.

[ekrolo2]

Because they're stupid. The whole god thing ruined Dragon Ball. Pretty much those who have God Ki are pretty indestructible which means God > SSJ4. God > Everything. Boring, very boring. It's a shame because SSJ4 has a design that suits Saiyans and resembles the Oozaru.
Same the with the Blue color swap. Bluper Cyan was an ass pull beyond anything.

Define ruined. Because the series is selling more than ever.
And you don't know what asspull is, it seems.

Apparently people that are mad about the God concept, is because they expected a yellow ssj4, ssj5, ssj6 etc...and never saw the god forms pattern coming.
Unpredictable things are the best.

By that logic RoF is a masterpiece. After all, people expected and even made a lot of good story theories, ideas before and after Freeza was revealed which sounded pretty great and plausible. Jokes on them for thinking it wouldn't be the most generic DBZ thing in decades.

[FortuneSSJ]

By that logic RoF is a masterpiece. After all, people expected and even made a lot of good story theories, ideas before and after Freeza was revealed which sounded pretty great and plausible. Jokes on them for thinking it wouldn't be the most generic DBZ thing in decades.

Its not a masterpiece. But its one of best movies that this series ever had by far, yes.
And the most generic DBZ thing in decades is Episode of Bardock and Dragon Ball Minus.

By the way, ROF was not unpredictable. The ending is bad, because unlike BOG, its like the other 13 Toei DBZ Movies. I had different plans for the movie too, and got surprised by how predictable the ending was.

[ekrolo2]

By that logic RoF is a masterpiece. After all, people expected and even made a lot of good story theories, ideas before and after Freeza was revealed which sounded pretty great and plausible. Jokes on them for thinking it wouldn't be the most generic DBZ thing in decades.

Its not a masterpiece. But its one of best movies that this series ever had by far, yes.
And the most generic DBZ thing in decades is Episode of Bardock and Dragon Ball Minus.

Dragon Ball Minus and EoB are bad stories and somewhat generic yes. Not like RoF though, that movie plot literally everyone predicted from start to finish since Freeza got revealed and subsequent material just hammered that more home. Bullshit power up with no explanation? Check, just a big long fight scene with no world building? Check, Freeza being a moron again and dying like a punk just like the past two times he came back? Check, check and check!

It's literally every Toei 90s movie with extra run time and that happens to be written by Toriyama and it doesn't even have come cool concepts like the Tree of Might or Hirudegarn or some honest to God visual flare like Dead Zone or Fusion Reborn to at least have nice visuals. It's got a couple good interactions, some decent fighting choreography and nothing else.

It's tangible proof that no, not going against expectations isn't always better nor is it better to always play by the numbers. Like many things in life, a happy medium has to exist.

[FortuneSSJ]

^I just edited my comment at the same time. My opinion is still the same.

[ekrolo2]

^I just edited my comment at the same time.

And now I feel like an ass

[Bullza]

RoF may have been predictable and lacking in world building but it still makes all the movies look like shit in comparison except for Battle of Gods.

[ekrolo2]

RoF may have been predictable and lacking in world building but it still makes all the movies look like shit in comparison except for Battle of Gods.

Maybe in fighting choreography but if I just want a good action packed Z movie I'll sooner watch Fusion Reborn or the first two Broly movies. At least those didn't squander a plethora of good story opportunities to expand the main continuity and didn't treat Freeza's return as the punch line of a movie wide joke. Fusion Reborn just gets that part over with mercifully fast, RoF doesn't.

[Cetra]

Everytime I watch Freeza vs Gokuu phase 1 I feel I am watching a videogame opening. The movie does not look bad, I guess. It just does not provide me with what I want.

For the thread itself: It is not possible to bring in SSJ4 in such an early movie, except as a retcon.

[Lord Beerus]

Toei and Bandai don't want to step on the toes of GT, so SSG becomes the new hot thing. It's purely for marketing reasons.

[irreality]

I didn't find RoF predictable. I mean, resurrecting Freeza with the Dragon Balls, sure. That there was Blueper Cyan? sure, new transformations as staple in DBZ. But everything else? No. I was surprised by most plot points.

Spoiler:

I didn't expect them training together at Whis', I didn't expect Jaco to be in the movie, I didn't expect Freeza to have a cowardly plan B against Goku, I didn't expect Vegeta to have such a critical role in the ending, I thought Whis powers were unexpected and a very new concept for the series and didn't know they were going to introduce time travel into the movie before I watched it. A lot of concepts seemed like great plothooks for developing the larger DB world and were not self-contained. It was so much more than I expected from a "let's bring back Freeza".

Compared to Wrath of the Dragon, which is one of my favorite DBZ movies pre-BoG, it is a lot better. There was a lot of Trunks moments and him thinking about his new mentor, for example, but there was no tie in to Vegeta, despite Trunks always idolizing before: lots of character moments wasted. Vegeta was tacked on the fight and did nothing. It was an interesting concept for a monster, but there was no sense of how such a monster fit with existing Dragon Ball concepts. The fight progression was incredibly predictable and there was no twists.

Or even compared to Fusion Reborn: that uses more existing DB concepts, but it is literally: we want to see Gogeta fight, with some cameos. The whole "liberating Hell" concept is one I think Toei likes, but I find so boring and sort of antithetical to the theology of the DB world. The fight itself is good, but one dimensional. The visuals are great, though.