Anybody already stopped watching Super?

[andrewtuell1991]

Why are people complaining about the pacing its pretty normal for a dragon ball series,

That's precisely why some are complaining. We thought maybe with no ongoing manga for the anime to be afraid of catching up with, we could finally have a Dragon Ball series where the pacing isn't complete crap. Super doesn't have the excuse DB and DBZ did to be this dreadfully paced, especially when both the original movie and manga adaptation have far superior pacing.

I remember the Freeza vs. Goku fight lasting 19 episodes,Gohan vs. Cell around 3 hours,Saiyan taking 16 episodes to reach earth or Goku creating a Genki dama for about 2-3 episodes,and about the SSG transformation,

None of that crap is okay either. Just because Super's predecessors are badly animated, terribly paced hack-jobs doesn't mean it has to follow in their footsteps. This was a chance for a Dragon Ball anime to start out fresh, new, and exciting, but it's being hindered by repeating the exact same mistakes as it's predecessors almost verbatim, which, understandably, is turning a lot of people off.

[funrush]

I'm pretty much watching out of obligation at this point, although episode 12 is showing signs of finally doing something different than the movies. Although considering the show's pace/animation, I probably will just be using the movie for future viewings of this arc.

[fadeddreams5]

Why are people complaining about the pacing its pretty normal for a dragon ball series,theres a reason why you often see some jokes about dragon ball like''Goku will take an entire episode to fire a kamehameha''.I remember the Freeza vs. Goku fight lasting 19 episodes,Gohan vs. Cell around 3 hours,Saiyan taking 16 episodes to reach earth or Goku creating a Genki dama for about 2-3 episodes,and about the SSG transformation,there's nothing wrong with that,i remeber in Buu saga Goku screaming for 3/4 of the episode for his SSJ3 Transformation and in my opinion,i think that the SSG transformation i really good and unique for a dragon ball series,it certainly shuts people who always says''DBZ is all about screaming,making your muscles bigger,staring etc..''

DBZ was following a manga, which is why the pacing was awful. Super has no excuse.

[Doctor.]

DBZ was following a manga, which is why the pacing was awful. Super has no excuse.

Why doesn't it have an excuse? They could be coming up with stuff for U6 as we speak. They could be stalling for time until they get their shit together. Isn't that the same thing Z did?

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Why are people complaining about the pacing its pretty normal for a dragon ball series,

That's precisely why some are complaining. We thought maybe with no ongoing manga for the anime to be afraid of catching up with, we could finally have a Dragon Ball series where the pacing isn't complete crap. Super doesn't have the excuse DB and DBZ did to be this dreadfully paced, especially when both the original movie and manga adaptation have far superior pacing.

GT had no ongoing manga to follow and it was still very slow for the first arc. At least Super is wrapping up the segment with its first major antagonist in the first 13 episodes.

[irreality]

Why are people complaining about the pacing its pretty normal for a dragon ball series,

That's precisely why some are complaining. We thought maybe with no ongoing manga for the anime to be afraid of catching up with, we could finally have a Dragon Ball series where the pacing isn't complete crap. Super doesn't have the excuse DB and DBZ did to be this dreadfully paced, especially when both the original movie and manga adaptation have far superior pacing.

GT had no ongoing manga to follow and it was still very slow for the first arc. At least Super is wrapping up the segment with its first major antagonist in the first 13 episodes.

GT might be *boring* in the first arc, but it isn't particularly slow. They are going to new planets and fighting new villains every other episode. They are just not interesting, funny or compelling planets or villains.

I don't think we need pacing like DBZ, people are right. But I also don't see the need to pace things at the speed of a movie, which is way too fast. But I see nothing wrong with having a pacing like Kai, for example. Which is around the pace Super has been going, if not faster. I might crop about 1 episode of stuff max at this point (if I cut little bits here and there out of some slow episodes), but it is nothing horrendous. When I outlined BoG into episodes before it started I came up with about 11-12. It being a tad longer seems ok, especially since some stuff has been new. And I do think part of the BoG and RoF arcs is to stall for time.

[ekrolo2]

Actually, we do needed those slice of life episodes. #1 is necessary because, well, it's the pilot episode. We need to know what everyone is doing, and it already establishes the main villain of the arc. #2 is necessary because instead of saying "Vegeta's a decent dad", it shows us that Vegeta is a decent dad. Beerus lying around for half an episode wondering about Super Saiyan God happened in Battle of Gods as well.

Not necessary for two separate episodes, though, especially since the Goten & Trunks gift quest is completely superfluous as seeing them interact with their dads shows us what kind of dads they are and where the characters are at this point. As for Beerus, it works in the movie because this is our introduction to him and it's the movie giving you an idea for who this guy is, Supers version would work if we learned anything knew about his backstory or personality, but it doesn't do either. It also doesn't help that the Super version lacks any atmosphere to it that BoG had.

Episode 7 was a really well-done episode. It built-up tension and drama in a way that Battle of Gods didn't bother to do so. You keep complaining about Super being too slow, but Battle of Gods was too damn fast.

BoG gives you a perfectly fine and quick way of showing how outclassed everyone is just fine without needing 20 minutes of everyone gawking at Beerus to do it. He takes out Goku with no effort than in the movie proceeds to one shot the next people on the pecking order such as Buu, Gohan and Gotenks (though Toyotaro's the only guy who makes the last one actually work the best) effortlessly. This works in showing you why the situation is severe both before and during the party without resorting to stupid ER MAH GURD! faces from everyone involved.

Then they made the most hilariously overdramatic thing happen by stretching out the slap to an absurd degree. I was laughing my ass off throughout all of it and the "tension" went out the window. Not helped since Episode 8 boils the whole thing down to a 15 minute game of rock, paper, scissors. The only meaningful thing they added was Dende sensing that Beerus' is a God, but they had to drag that out too and botch it by not having Piccolo sense it too.

Episode 9 created a transformation sequence that feels like Dragon Ball. It's like comparing the Super Saiyan transformation in the manga to the one in the anime. Can you really say "OH THE ANIME VERSION WAS TOO LONG, THEREFORE IT SUCKS"?

Nothing tells us the Super Saiyan God backstory won't be expanded upon in the future.

You're right that the SSJ transformation in the manga completely pales in comparison to the anime one and I like the sequence in Super but once again, it got dragged out to much. I didn't need several separate group shots of everyone gawking at Goku, I didn't need multiple types of energy pouring into Goku and it didn't need constant close-ups of the characters wonky faces. Its a 2 and a half minute sequence dragged out to almost twice its length.

That's fine and dandy, but why isn't it here? They're tripling the goddamn run time of BoG and in the moment where Goku's asking Shenron about the Super Saiyan God, they cut everything out about it? Why? That's literally one of the few things that actually warranted expansion and they decide to cut it out? Why's Toyotaro getting free reign to smash different arcs together but the animation team can't or won't?

I don't really see how episode 10 and 11 are padded out, they had very good pacing. And again, being longer doesn't inherently mean it's worse.

If the added length was used to actually showcase more of Goku's issues with the way he's attained the form and Beerus' borderline boredom induced insanity, I'd agree. The thing is, Goku's arc is completely cut, likely so RoFs "Whis wisdom" doesn't come off as a blatant retcon like the movies was while Beerus' is only hinted at.

The rest is them doing stupid gags on each other with Goku commenting over and over and over how amazing Beerus is and how incredible it is to be a God. The fight in BoG might've been faced, but it felt impactful like every punch mattered and every line of dialogue served an actual purpose. Nothing in Super's fight feels like this. They could've at least made it visually awesome to behold but again, it's really not. The animation constantly feels slow and janky, they simply can't keep themselves from breaking it up every time it's starting to pick up the pace with more reaction shots or Pilaf gang "jokes" or Goku telling Beerus once again how amazing he is!

The only things about Supers expansion that I like are seeing more of dick Beerus, his hinted at motivation that basically doesn't exist in the movie and everything with Vegeta that's not his derp face reactions to the slap. Everything else is either too long or unnecessary. Between BoG, Super and the Toyotaro manga, there's a perfect version of this story in there somewhere that the movie comes the closest too but none of them are perfect imo.

[fadeddreams5]

Why doesn't it have an excuse? They could be coming up with stuff for U6 as we speak. They could be stalling for time until they get their shit together. Isn't that the same thing Z did?

No. They could have just waited until the U6 arc was finished to release Super, if that's the case.

[Doctor.]

Why doesn't it have an excuse? They could be coming up with stuff for U6 as we speak. They could be stalling for time until they get their shit together. Isn't that the same thing Z did?

No. They could have just waited until the U6 arc was finished to release Super, if that's the case.

They could have waited for the manga to finish to release Z.

[ekrolo2]

Why doesn't it have an excuse? They could be coming up with stuff for U6 as we speak. They could be stalling for time until they get their shit together. Isn't that the same thing Z did?

No. They could have just waited until the U6 arc was finished to release Super, if that's the case.

They could have waited for the manga to finish to release Z.

Could have but U6 isn't a manga, it's a series of scripts and ideas that're being developed internally and not for the public eye. It's like asking for a show to launch when half its script isn't done and none of its actors have been cast. They could've bought time by just doing an original couple of arcs or one long one with Toriyama helping to develop them for some core concepts or designs just to put a sock in the mouth of people who'd call it filler and voila, rehash bitching avoided.

[fadeddreams5]

Why doesn't it have an excuse? They could be coming up with stuff for U6 as we speak. They could be stalling for time until they get their shit together. Isn't that the same thing Z did?

No. They could have just waited until the U6 arc was finished to release Super, if that's the case.

They could have waited for the manga to finish to release Z.

That'd just be a terrible business decision. They were capitalizing on the manga's crazy popularity at the time; the two things being released simultaneously increases the sales of one and viewership of the other. Plus, there was never any indication when, if at all, the manga was going to finish.

Super isn't following anything, and the U6 arc should be ready to go some time before Summer 2016. I guess maybe they wanted to make sure the series doesn't lose popularity due to inactivity (i.e. end of Kai)? Hopefully, their decision doesn't end up hurting more than helping.

[Doctor.]

That'd just be a terrible business decision. They were capitalizing on the manga's crazy popularity at the time; the two things being released simultaneously increases the sales of one and viewership of the other. Plus, there was never any indication when, if at all, the manga was going to finish.

Super isn't following anything, and the U6 arc should be ready to go some time before Summer 2016. I guess maybe they wanted to make sure the series doesn't lose popularity due to inactivity (i.e. end of Kai)? Also, perhaps, they lack the confidence to create original stories without the aid of Toriyama? Hopefully, their decision doesn't end up hurting more than helping.

And not releasing Super is also a bad terrible business decision. They get to milk the movies that are fresh in everyone's mind, while also keeping DB's time slot and having a sequel to a powerhouse franchise, something that no doubt will gather attention.

I can reverse it all day, the arguments can be used for both series.

Could have but U6 isn't a manga, it's a series of scripts and ideas that're being developed internally and not for the public eye. It's like asking for a show to launch when half its script isn't done and none of its actors have been cast. They could've bought time by just doing an original couple of arcs or one long one with Toriyama helping to develop them for some core concepts or designs just to put a sock in the mouth of people who'd call it filler and voila, rehash bitching avoided.

And what if Toriyama doesn't want to do anything else besides U6?

[fadeddreams5]

That's what makes it a bad decision, imo. They are adapting movies that are fresh in our minds.

It's not the same thing at all. The minute Super was announced and released, it'd still get a ton of viewers without the need of these arcs.

And they could have used the budget they're using for these episodes to make specials here and there, as well as market the upcoming new series, preparing it for a worldwide release while they're at it because, as you mentioned, this is a HUGE franchise. The whole thing seems unnecessary to me. And I doubt the U6 arc is less than 60% done atm.

[ekrolo2]

That'd just be a terrible business decision. They were capitalizing on the manga's crazy popularity at the time; the two things being released simultaneously increases the sales of one and viewership of the other. Plus, there was never any indication when, if at all, the manga was going to finish.

Super isn't following anything, and the U6 arc should be ready to go some time before Summer 2016. I guess maybe they wanted to make sure the series doesn't lose popularity due to inactivity (i.e. end of Kai)? Also, perhaps, they lack the confidence to create original stories without the aid of Toriyama? Hopefully, their decision doesn't end up hurting more than helping.

And not releasing Super is also a bad terrible business decision. They get to milk the movies that are fresh in everyone's mind, while also keeping DB's time slot and having a sequel to a powerhouse franchise, something that no doubt will gather attention.

I can reverse it all day, the arguments can be used for both series.

Could have but U6 isn't a manga, it's a series of scripts and ideas that're being developed internally and not for the public eye. It's like asking for a show to launch when half its script isn't done and none of its actors have been cast. They could've bought time by just doing an original couple of arcs or one long one with Toriyama helping to develop them for some core concepts or designs just to put a sock in the mouth of people who'd call it filler and voila, rehash bitching avoided.

And what if Toriyama doesn't want to do anything else besides U6?

Then just get the guy who was going to do the original BoG script Yusuke Watanabe or Naho Ooishi or Takao Koyama who wrote Yo Son Goku, EoB and Plan to Eradicate the Saiyan's to do an arc in-between RoF and U6.

[sintzu]

I noticed a lot of the complains are from people who've seen the movie so to anyone who didn't,what do you think of Super so far ?

They could have just waited until the U6 arc was finished to release Super.

I think if they didn't continue right after Kai they would've lost their time slot to another show.

[ekrolo2]

I noticed a lot of the complains are from people who've seen the movie so to anyone who didn't,what do you think of Super so far ?

They could have just waited until the U6 arc was finished to release Super.

I think if they didn't continue right after Kai they would've lost their time slot to another show.

Just make a new arc in-between RoF and then, time slot saved, bitching about rehashed material averted and if the "filler" was good more quality story content would exist for the series. Its really a no brainer but I suspect Super got rushed as all hell so that they had no choice but to rehash the movies due to lack of time.

[sintzu]

Just make a new arc in-between RoF and then, time slot saved, bitching about rehashed material averted and if the "filler" was good more quality story content would exist for the series.

Since when does filler turn out good ? I know the current arc isn't perfect but I'd take it over filler any day.

[ekrolo2]

Just make a new arc in-between RoF and then, time slot saved, bitching about rehashed material averted and if the "filler" was good more quality story content would exist for the series.

Since when does filler turn out good ? I know the current arc isn't perfect but I'd take it over filler any day.

Dragon Balls executed it a lot better than most other manga such as with the Otherworld Saga and filler placed during the Buu & Saiyan Sagas. All it would need is a competent writer such as Takao NKoyama or Yusuke Watanabe, give the animation staff a decent budget and time to get it looking half-way good and take input from Toriyama so it can fit in with whatever plans he's got later. Wouldn't be the first time he involved himself with anime-only material.

Even if it isn't the greatest thing ever, at least it 1) couldn't ever be as God awful as RoF and 2) it wouldn't be bastardizing an actual good Dragon Ball story because Toei REALLY loves some time slot.

[irreality]

If they put in that much work into this "Filler" what is the point? The idea of this padding is to stall for time, create a coherent story over all without relying on movies, and move forward with new material in 6 months. You are saying it is a better idea to write unrelated filler that may or may not mesh with the later story, takes up more work to do well and may be bad/not resonate with fans in the way a lot of Toei filler does. That sound like a way riskier option that doesn't save much time at all.

[ekrolo2]

If they put in that much work into this "Filler" what is the point? The idea of this padding is to stall for time, create a coherent story over all without relying on movies, and move forward with new material in 6 months. You are saying it is a better idea to write unrelated filler that may or may not mesh with the later story, takes up more work to do well and may be bad/not resonate with fans in the way a lot of Toei filler does. That sound like a way riskier option that doesn't save much time at all.

They ARE relying on the movies! They're taking assets from them and practically selling them again as "new story arcs" with worse budgets, animation and thrice the runtime! Besides, if Toriyama can be asked to apparently send manuscripts already, what's to stop him from involving himself with this proposed "filler" story? No one cares that Toyotaro effectively started leaving the anime in the dust by showing Champa and actually setting up the Super Dragon Balls so I really don't see why a new arc tying into that stuff, serving as a sort of prologue can't work.

As for the fans, if the masses can like RoF and Super, they'll like anything with Toriyama's name on it at this point. That's a dick thing to say but I don't care for the opinions of the type of fans who swoon over Goku being awesome now that he's more OP than Silver Age Superman while bitching about what a boring and OP character Superman is at the same time.