Goku and Vegeta should have been retired as leads

[Rockman X]

First off, he doesn't just get stronger for himself.

Yes he does.. he trains,seeks stronger opponents and challenges purely to push himself he's a saiyan he thirsts for battle&competition.. saving the earth is just something he does ALONG THE WAY not the other way around!

Compare this with Gohan he doesn't "enjoy" fighting like Goku he doesn't even WANT to fight.. he only fights to save others now that is more heroic than some person who just loves fighting&competition.

Heaven forbid someone sees themselves as their highest value and wants to do things for primarily themselves.

I don't admire selfish people.. especially the ones who are never forced to confront with the fact that they're seflish,i like Vegeta even though he's Selfish because he is forced to confront his characters flaws and accept his mistakes unlike Goku.

Shows are reflections of their main character. Goku is the show.

I told you Gohan,Vegeta,Trunks&Piccolo are also "main characters".. Goku hogging the spotlight is out of question.. unless you completely want the franchise to reach a new low like DBGT.. DBZ is SOO GOOD because Goku doesn't hog all the spotlight until the end of Buu Saga and that's why its also considered as one of the weaker Sagas in DBZ.

All selfishness means is to act in one's own self-interest.

It also means DISREGARDING everything else.. Goku could've destroyed Dr.Gero lab using the dragon balls BUUT he doesn't give a fu*k he wants to fight the androids he'd rather put Earth on danger to fight more opponents.

Goku has taken down numerous bad guys and he did so for good reasons, he's most definitely a hero..

So killing bad guys makes you a hero? so Vegeta killing Ginyu Force makes him a hero? i used to think ACTIVELY FIGHTING FOR OTHERS is what made you a hero like Gohan&Future Trunks are.

Goku's character at its core is not something i'd consider "Noble" yeah he's a good guy but ultimately his main priorities are fighting not being a hero if he REALLY cared about saving the world more than his selfish thirst for battle he would've thrown away his pride and one hit ko'd Majin Vegeta by Going into SSJ3 that way Buu wouldn't have any energy to be revived and then use instant transmission to blast babidi&Buu Shell to pieces BUT that's too heroic&logical for Goku i guess?

The only times that the series ever really flirts with modern Western Action Hero morality and/or Superhero tropes is The Great Saiyaman and Mirai Trunks' characterization

This guy gets what i mean by being a "hero" Goku ain't a hero! he's a selfish doofus i much prefer the anti-hero Vegeta,the heroic Gohan(no not the stupid saiyaman),Future Trunks and the stoic&wise piccolo when you compare ALL of these characters with Goku you'd realize Goku is a hollow shell of a character with no real substance Goku doesn't care really about his family or his friends or planet earth even Vegeta mellowed out and grew attached to his family but Goku? Goku has a one track mind he doesn't give a flying fudge if he has a billion dollars of a suitcase his only concern is going back to train more.

To put this into perspective just watch the scene where piccolo tells Goku that "Gohan isn't a fighter like you Goku! he doesn't like to fight!" a goddamn green alien understands Gohan's nature more than his own damn father ITS INCREDIBLE&DISTURBING at the same time.. this is how DETACHED Goku is from Reality.

[ABED]

Yes he does.. he trains,seeks stronger opponents and challenges purely to push himself he's a saiyan he thirsts for battle&competition.. saving the earth is just something he does ALONG THE WAY not the other way around!

Compare this with Gohan he doesn't "enjoy" fighting like Goku he doesn't even WANT to fight.. he only fights to save others now that is more heroic than some person who just loves fighting & competition.

It's not purely for the challenge. The series is clear about this. He's fought numerous times to protect people he cares about. He didn't attack Raditz for the thrill of competition, he fought to protect his son, and killing 100 people was out of the question. Someone who fights ONLY to save others isn't axiomatically more heroic. Fighting the Red Ribbon Army because they are a threat to him was definitely heroic. He could've not gone after his goal and let them do what he did, but no, he went after something that was a genuine value to him and stood up to evil because he had the ability to do so.

I told you Gohan,Vegeta,Trunks&Piccolo are also "main characters".. Goku hogging the spotlight is out of question.. unless you completely want the franchise to reach a new low like DBGT.. DBZ is SOO GOOD because Goku doesn't hog all the spotlight until the end of Buu Saga and that's why its also considered as one of the weaker Sagas in DBZ.

Goku doesn't hog the spotlight. It's not real, Goku isn't a real person, Toriyama wrote the stories that put Goku in the spotlight. DB is the best part of the show, in my opinion, and Goku is unquestionably the lead character.

It also means DISREGARDING everything else

That's not what that means. Other people can be of great value, why would disregarding everything else be in one's own interest? How does it further one's life?

Goku could've destroyed Dr.Gero lab using the dragon balls BUUT he doesn't give a fu*k he wants to fight the androids he'd rather put Earth on danger to fight more opponents.

No one other than Bulma disagrees with him, not even Gohan.

So killing bad guys makes you a hero? so Vegeta killing Ginyu Force makes him a hero? i used to think ACTIVELY FIGHTING FOR OTHERS is what made you a hero like Gohan&Future Trunks are.

I said for good reasons. Goku has taken down villains in order to bring Bora back to life. He brought down the Red Ribbon Army because they were attacking people whom he cared for. He killed Piccolo because he was an imminent threat and killed Roshi and Kuririn. He defeated Nappa because he went after his friends and son. He helped defeat Raditz because he abducted his son.

a goddamn green alien understands...

Goku knows this! He talks to Gohan about this right before Gohan fights Cell. He knows his son wants to grow up to be a scholar.

REVENGE.

Revenge at first for the dead Namekians and (kinda) the Saiya-jin. Then a bit later on into the fight, revenge for Kuririn. Goku straight up even CALLS it revenge in his dialogue.

Yes, he calls it that, but it's not revenge in the way we think of it. It's not the same as vigilante justice in the real world as there is no force in the DB world capable of delivering impartial justice. No police force capable of capturing Piccolo, much less incarcerating him. In that way, Goku killing them after the death of Kuririn and Muten Roshi is completely justified since Piccolo is also still a worldwide threat. That said, revenge sounds more dramatic.

[Rockman X]

It's not purely for the challenge He's fought numerous times to protect people he cares about.

You're just repeating the same thing without paying attention what i'm saying. i already told you Goku primarily fights for himself to tests his skills and seek stronger enemies saving the world is something he does ALONG THE WAY as in i was going to buy a cake then i brought a candy along the way.. type of thing.. my main objective/focus is still buying the cake NOT the candy.

You're acting as if Goku's main objective&goal is the candy(saving&protecting the world) which it isn't so he isn't a "Hero" by that definition to be a hero Goku has to be become like Future Trunks&Gohan.

Someone who fights ONLY to save others isn't axiomatically more heroic.

Yes it is? Gohan doesn't even LIKE fighting but does it to protect others he goes against his own timid&pacifistic nature to protect others Goku is by nature a fighter who craves more battles.. there's no heroism here he just happens to fight the "bad guys" more often but that doesn't mean he's doing it out of his sheer heroism.. no he's doing it cus of his saiyan thirst for battle.

Goku doesn't hog the spotlight. It's not real, Goku isn't a real person

When did i Goku was a real person? I said Goku's character "hogging" the spotlight is out of the question what made DBZ great&popular is its character diversity it isn't focused on Goku 24/7.

Namek/Freeza Saga was more or less about Gohan,Vegeta&krillin,Cell/Android Saga was about Gohan&Future Trunks and buu saga is Gotenks&Gohan,i'm really surprised by how Toriyama subconsciously realized that giving Goku all the glory is bad for the series but that's what he's doing with DBS so far.

That's not what that means.

That is exactly what it means to be "Selfish" you don't give a shit about anything but yourself to the point you're hurting others around you... the best example would be when Supreme kai says "Don't you see that Universe means more than you meaningless Squabble!?" Vegeta throws a hissy fit but what kai said applies to Goku just as much as Vegeta.. Goku could've ended the fight in seconds and stopped Buu from being revived if he was TRUE HERO who's primary concern was SAVING PEOPLE NOT FIGHTING.

No one other than Bulma disagrees with him, not even Gohan.

Krillin agreed with her "that's a great idea we won't have to fight at all!" and vegeta says "IF YOU DO THAT I'LL FU*KING KILL YOU!" and then Bulma pleads Goku. and Goku says.. "WELL I WANT TO FIGHT TOO..." and to top it all off? if it wasn't for piccolo no one would even know about the androids.. Goku just says "ah nothing really!"... yeah OUR HERO who wants to put earth at STAKE just to fight this isn't heroic NOT THE LEAST BIT! i really love this line from Bulma as well "You guys are just as bad as your enemies! This fight is MORBID!"

I said for good reasons.

Vegeta killed for "Good reasons" if Ginyu force survived they would've been upto no good .

He defeated Nappa because he went after his friends and son. He helped defeat Raditz because he abducted his son.

WTF ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY? any being with empathy would try&help others in dangers around them that doesn't make Goku Heroic that just makes him a Good guy i'm not denying Goku being a good guy but he's FAR from being a "Hero" i have no idea why you keep insisting that he is.. he isn't.. Toriyama himself said HE ISN'T what more proof do you need?

[Relenanator]

Tarble is also probably the worst, most singularly pointless character in the ENTIRE franchise bar none.

"Hi! I'm Vegeta's COMPLETELY never before mentioned kid brother! I exist!"

*Goes on to do absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to even remotely justify his ass-pull of an existence*

He's an interesting character in concept but ultimately a missed opportunity. I would have preferred the story more if Tarble had come to earth seeking revenge on Red and Blue for fucking up the Marshmallow's plaint. And then have Tarble kick their asses instead of Goten, Trunks, Goku.

Also, Tarble existence, I feel makes more sense then Tights. At least It doesn't feel out of character that Vegeta wouldn't mention or talk about a living relative to the others, especially since that relative happens to be so weak and pathetic that he got sent to another plaint (at least by Saiyan standards). The way Vegeta greeted him pretty much said it all; he cares about him (somewhat) but he's also ashamed of him as well.

On the other hand, Tights existence - while important to in the Jaco manga, breaks my suspension of disbelief completely. I don't see how Bulma or her parents would have never mentioned her even once over the course of the entire series. That's three people to account for having never uttered a single word about a close blood relative. The mental backflips one has to do to accept her as canon is ridicules.

Both Bardock things though are just total skidmarks upon the original TV anime special, which is hands down one of the all time BEST bits of the whole franchise unquestionably for my money.

Agreed. I hated how Toreyama had to go and make Bardock some rare special snowflake Saiyan that can feel love and Geni is another special snowflake Saiyan that can also feel love and they both fell in love with eachother because Geni is some weak damsel in distress that Bardock had go and save all the time. God it was just retarded.

[Cipher]

It's not purely for the challenge He's fought numerous times to protect people he cares about.

You're just repeating the same thing without paying attention what i'm saying. i already told you Goku primarily fights for himself to tests his skills and seek stronger enemies saving the world is something he does ALONG THE WAY as in i was going to buy a cake then i brought a candy along the way.. type of thing.. my main objective/focus is still buying the cake NOT the candy.

Either take is reductive. ABED is right to point out that there are multiple times in the series (okay, maybe only a few) where Goku's reason for fighting is expressly the protection of others; he's not a sociopath. But the reason he's strong enough to do so in the first place is his desire to test his own limits and experience thrills as a fighter, and often even his heroic deeds are colored by the negative side of that drive (sparing Piccolo and Vegeta to maintain a rivalry despite knowing how dangerous they are, numerous other acts throughout the series). He's not like Cell, or Beerus, who will place their own power and thrill above the lives of others, but as he becomes more cosmically powerful and challenging opponents are fewer and farther between, his thrill-seeking does stat to have more dangerous repercussions.

Goku will put down a threat if there's no way he could even plausibly ensure the safety of others with it still loose. But he's not like Gohan or Future Trunks, for whom safety is the first and only priority. If there's a chance for Goku to find or keep around a challenge, he'll do so against better judgement.

But yeah, here's a quick breakdown.

Moments when Goku is specifically fighting for others (not dicking around)
- vs. Tao Pai Pai
- vs. Tambourine and Piccolo Daimao
- vs. Raditz
- The beginning of the Nappa and Vegeta fight
- vs. Ginyu Squad
- The beginning of the Freeza fight
- vs. Pure Boo in the Kaioshin realm

Moments when whatever selfish goals Goku has happen to align with him saving the world
- Opening arc
- Most of the Red Ribbon Army arc
- The 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai
- The Cell Games (... sooooort of?)
- vs. Beerus (who he antagonizes in the first place despite being warned, so ...)
- vs. Freeza, rematch

Moments when Goku actively endangers his own life or others' for thrill
- End of the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai (including his refusal to ignore tournament rules)
- End of the Saiyan arc
- Letting Freeza achieve full power
- Choosing not to stop the creation of the androids
- Giving Cell a Senzu holy fuck
- Giving Vegeta a sportsmanlike fight in the Boo arc (threatening the level-headed Kaioshin in order to do so)
- Not killing fat Boo
- Challenging Beerus in the first place
- Wanting to let Freeza, who has radically increased his power in a short time frame and may be stronger than him, get away

To say nothing of the non-dangerous but selfish actions he takes in the series in regards to abandoning his family at the drop of a hat.

On sparing opponents: These aren't pacifist choices, and he can't guarantee he'll be able to contain them (I didn't mention wanting to spare the Ginyu Squad, for example, because they're clearly not threats at that point, and Goku does believe in turning new leaves). In the cases of Piccolo, Vegeta and Freeza, he's either barely won or been completely outmatched and is giving them free reign to go off and train to challenge him again, despite knowing their next step would be to take over or destroy Earth.

[ABED]

That is exactly what it means to be "Selfish" you don't give a shit about anything but yourself to the point you're hurting others around you... the best example would be when Supreme kai says "Don't you see that Universe means more than you meaningless Squabble!?" Vegeta throws a hissy fit but what kai said applies to Goku just as much as Vegeta.. Goku could've ended the fight in seconds and stopped Buu from being revived if he was TRUE HERO who's primary concern was SAVING PEOPLE NOT FIGHTING.

No, that isn't what it means. Selfish means to have concern for yourself. If you have concern for youself then what value is derived from hurting others? How does that further your life? The examply you use is a RETCON! When Toriyama was writing that fight, he had yet to come up with Super Saiyan 3.

Krillin agreed with her "that's a great idea we won't have to fight at all!"

No, he gives a speech where he points out that everyone started off as Goku's enemy at some point.

You're acting as if Goku's main objective&goal is the candy(saving&protecting the world) which it isn't so he isn't a "Hero" by that definition to be a hero Goku has to be become like Future Trunks&Gohan.

No, you are creating a strawman.

I said Goku's character "hogging" the spotlight is out of the question what made DBZ great&popular is its character diversity it isn't focused on Goku 24/7.

Then your phrasing is confusing. First off, you should've written "is without question". Out of the question means you are dismissing something without further argument, and DB was already extremely popular before Gohan was ever created. And you are being WAY too literal. Of course you didn't say Goku is a real person, but saying a character hogs the spotlight is ridiculous given that he's fictional. Goku doesn't actively prevent others from taking Toriyama's spotlight, Toriyama CHOOSES to put his main character in the spotlight.

WTF ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY? any being with empathy would try&help others in dangers around them that doesn't make Goku Heroic that just makes him a Good guy i'm not denying Goku being a good guy but he's FAR from being a "Hero" i have no idea why you keep insisting that he is.. he isn't.. Toriyama himself said HE ISN'T what more proof do you need?

How do you not understand my point? I've been perfectly clear this whole time. What I find obnoxious is that you think ethics as a given as if it's something everyone knows. Yes, helping out others when danger is around you is heroic. To dismiss that and say a hero is someone who goes out of their way to help others is just naïve. You don't even bother to define what you think a hero is. Goku is a hero, what Toriyama wrote is irrelevant. He can give his analysis, but that in no way means I'm supposed to take it as is. I can come to my own conclusions.

Killing the Ginyu Force wasn't wrong of Vegeta, but I wouldn't call it a heroic act either. However, what Vegeta did and what Goku did are not the same. Their aims and reasons are SO different.

Moments when Goku actively endangers his own life or others' for thrill
- End of the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai (including his refusal to ignore tournament rules)
- - Letting Freeza achieve full power
- Giving Cell a Senzu holy fuck
- Giving Vegeta a sportsmanlike fight in the Boo arc (threatening the level-headed Kaioshin in order to do so)
- Not killing fat Boo
- Challenging Beerus in the first place

- The very act of going up against Piccolo was a life endangering act, I'm fully behind Goku staying within the tournament rules
- Goku knew he was in no danger of losing to Freeza at full power. Freeza had told him that he was at 50 percent, so Goku can extrapolate
- Gohan was in absolutely no danger of losing even with the senzu.
- That only seems like a sportsman like fight in light of a retcon. I still don't know why this isn't obvious to everyone. Even when Goku irresponsibly lets an enemy go, he never does it with the intent of someone else cleaning it up. He wouldn't let Buu be revived unless he intended to fight him. It wasn't in any way written as a sportsman like battle, either in execution or tone.
- Another retcon. After the fight, he told Piccolo that he probably couldn't have won had he gone full out. Unless you think he lied, but he was upfront about his reasons for not fighting full out, so why lie?
- Beerus is so capricious, it's hard to predict what he would've done had Goku not challenged him.

[irreality]

He's an interesting character in concept but ultimately a missed opportunity. I would have preferred the story more if Tarble had come to earth seeking revenge on Red and Blue for fucking up the Marshmallow's plaint. And then have Tarble kick their asses instead of Goten, Trunks, Goku.

Also, Tarble existence, I feel makes more sense then Tights. At least It doesn't feel out of character that Vegeta wouldn't mention or talk about a living relative to the others, especially since that relative happens to be so weak and pathetic that he got sent to another plaint (at least by Saiyan standards). The way Vegeta greeted him pretty much said it all; he cares about him (somewhat) but he's also ashamed of him as well.

On the other hand, Tights existence - while important to in the Jaco manga, breaks my suspension of disbelief completely. I don't see how Bulma or her parents would have never mentioned her even once over the course of the entire series. That's three people to account for having never uttered a single word about a close blood relative. The mental backflips one has to do to accept her as canon is ridicules.

I disagree with this. Dr. Briefs and Mrs. Briefs have like a handful of lines, total. Them talking about a random older daughter to their other daughter's friends when they can barely get a word in edgewise about Bulma in the series would be beyond weird. As for Bulma not mentioning her sister: again, I don't know the siblings of most my friends. I've not met them, and if sometimes they are mentioned in passing they are rarely relevant to my life in any meaningful way. She is not relevant to the plot of Dragon ball and have trouble imagining when she would have mentioned her (Trip to Namek, maybe? -- previous space travel?). I don't think it is that weird, especially considering the age gap between them and lack of common interests. I mean, we know nothing of Krillin's family. Them not mentioning Jaco is a waa~y bigger plothole.

Tarble does break my suspension of disbelief completely. Saiyans are such an important part of the series, Radditz goes out of his way to find Goku even though they thought he was weak, Vegeta makes a *point* of saying there are no other saiyans alive when Trunks appears, so that *is* weird. There were plenty of opportunities to mention him, and lots of plot that could revolve around him. Him not being mentioned is not the same as a non fighting/non science family member not being mentioned.

[Relenanator]

Tarble does break my suspension of disbelief completely. Saiyans are such an important part of the series, Radditz goes out of his way to find Goku even though they thought he was weak,

Not saying you're wrong, but I don't remember them thinking Goku weak, just that they knew there was a living Saiyan on Earth. And there is no way I could see Vegeta - with all his pride - ever going out of his way to get Tarble, especially in the Saiyan arc. He would run the chance of being completely humiliated and laughed at.

Vegeta makes a *point* of saying there are no other saiyans alive when Trunks appears, so that *is* weird.

It's a stretch, but it's possible that Vageta is probably so ashamed that his sibling of royal Saiyan blood, is a kind hatred weakling sap, that he tries to forget that he even exists. Especially considering that he was still an asshole during the cell saga.

I disagree with this. Dr. Briefs and Mrs. Briefs have like a handful of lines, total. Them talking about a random older daughter to their other daughter's friends when they can barely get a word in edgewise about Bulma in the series would be beyond weird. As for Bulma not mentioning her sister: again, I don't know the siblings of most my friends. I've not met them, and if sometimes they are mentioned

I don't expect Bulma or her parents to mention Tights to her friends, but I DO expect Bulma and her parents to mention or make note of her existence to eachother (at the very least in passing). Also, Tights isn't talked about FOR YEARS. Yes, it's true that siblings and parents can go without talking about one another for a long time but we've known Bulma and her family for well over ten years. For an entire family to not mention or have a single passing thought about a daughter/sister in all that time is statistically improbable unless they had some kind of falling out.

And even if you could make sense of that there is still the issue that there is nothing of her existence in their home either: not a single picture or keepsake of Tights anywhere. That just not normal to me.

[irreality]

I'm not saying Bulma and her parents never talk about Tights: it just isn't plot related so there is no reason those conversations would be shown. There aren't many scenes of them just chatting about something not directly plot related. It is even possible everyone in the DB gang has met her. But other than the BoG birthday party, there is no logical reason she would be in any scene or even mentioned, so the audience would not be cognizant of this fact.

We also don't see many details of Bulma's house enough to recognize Tights keepsakes or photos. Again, those are extremely obscure details that wouldn't bother me. Tights hasn't lived in Capsule Corp since she was 17. Other than a photograph of her here and there (and maybe a complete collection of her books), what would she have lying around for us to see? And even a photograph or a random book, Capsule Corp is huge: unless they are showing us the decor of most rooms, it is completely reasonable to not see this.

[gohann]

I agree with the OP. Goku is the main character so of course he's still around, but Vegeta has no business being there.

[Lord Beerus]

I agree with the OP. Goku is the main character so of course he's still around, but Vegeta has no business being there.

Why does Vegeta have no business a lead character? He's just as important to the plot of Dragon Ball as Goku is. Arguably even more so after the Namek arc.

[Rockman X]

Selfish means to have concern for yourself.

Goku was concerned with HIS FIGHT with Vegeta NOT SAVING THE WORLD from buu IF HE DID HE WOULD'VE ONE HIT KO'D vegeta or better yet just beat up Dabura and MAKE SURE buu doesn't get revived then fight vegeta or whatever..or how about Goku saying "FU*K EARTH'S SAFETY I WANT TO FIGHT Vegeta AGAIN"?
Goku isn't concerned with how much damage the saiyans,androids&buu would do to earth.. NO he's concerned with FIGHTING THEM THAT IS SELFISH AND NOT HEROIC!

When Toriyama was writing that fight, he had yet to come up with Super Saiyan 3.

I don't care if Toriyama makes up stuff as he goes along i judge the story for what it is.

No, he gives a speech where he points out that everyone started off as Goku's enemy at some point.

that is AFTER that.. krillin still AGREED with Bulma's idea and let's be LOGICAL for second bulma idea WAS the best idea.. stop dr,gero before he does any..
DAMAGE!

No, you are creating a strawman.

No i'm telling you exactly how Goku is and what his drives are IT IS NOT SAVING THE WORLD OR BEING A HERO it is fighting for his own pleasure.

saying a character hogs the spotlight is ridiculous given that he's fictional.

Why is it ridiculous? i'm sorry are you even a native English speaker? you don't seem to understand the simplest of language..what does Goku being fictional have ANYTHING to do with this? him "Hogging" the spotlight in the show is "Out of the Question" as DBZ is most popular BECAUSE of its character diversity and letting ANY character hog the spotlight is bad in general.

Toriyama CHOOSES to put his main character in the spotlight.

Stop it with the "Main character" nonsense! ALL THE Z fighters are "Main Characters".

Yes, helping out others when danger is around you is heroic.

Then Vegeta killing Ginyu Force is heroic as well! idk why people scoff at vegeta when he saved Gohan&krillin's lives!

To dismiss that and say a hero is someone who goes out of their way to help others is just naïve.

ACTUALLY YES.. making a considerable amount of effort and committing yourself for a certain noble task IS heroic just helping your buddies along the way DOES NOT make you a "HERO".

I'm just going to end this here cus you don't understand what a hero is or even Goku's character for that matter.

You don't even bother to define what you think a hero is.

Maybe if you took your time to READ MY POSTS carefully you'd see that I DID that "ACTIVELY FIGHTING FOR OTHERS AND A NOBLE CAUSE is what made you a hero like Future Gohan&Trunks are." that's why we call fire-fighters,Soldiers&doctors HEROES NOT martial artists.

what Toriyama wrote is irrelevant.

LMAO.. this is hands down the funniest thing i've read in a while.

[sintzu]

Goku is the main character so of course he's still around, but Vegeta has no business being there.

DBZ wouldn't be what it is now without Vegeta both in terms of the story and popularity so not only does he deserve to stand with Goku as the 2nd main character,he needs to,unless they want Super and whatever other future projects to be another Gt.

It's not Dragon Ball without Goku and Vegeta as leaders. I don't give a fuck about "new generation", they all suck and are not likeable like these two...

Comments like this make me wish we could thumb up comments here.

[ABED]

You still don't understand what the word selfish means. You keep using it as a synonym for "unethical".

I don't care if Toriyama makes up stuff as he goes along i judge the story for what it is.

But disregard the massive plot hole when it's convenient for an argument.

that's why we call fire-fighters,Soldiers&doctors HEROES NOT martial artists.

Martial artists can be heroes. You have a very narrow definition of heroism. Bruce Lee was a hero. At a time when Chinese were against teaching foreigners martial arts, Bruce defied them and taught because that's what he loved to do.

ACTUALLY YES.. making a considerable amount of effort and committing yourself for a certain noble task IS heroic just helping your buddies along the way DOES NOT make you a "HERO".

So does pushing yourself to be great at what you do in a postive way. Goku's goal is to be the best martial artist he can be and that's a very noble and constructive goal. It's absurd that you knock Goku for helping his buddies because you deem that as an after thought. Sherlock Holmes being more interested in solving the puzzle doesn't make him any less of a hero than if his main purpose was to fight for justice. That's part of who he is, but not the main part.

LMAO.. this is hands down the funniest thing i've read in a while.

Thanks for taking that completely out of context and being an arse about it.

[VegettoEX]

Account strikes have already been issued in this thread; there is no need to report any additional posts (prior to this one) or respond in your own rude manner. Thanks.

[Soppa Saia People]

I agree with the OP. Goku is the main character so of course he's still around, but Vegeta has no business being there.

Totally agree, Vegtea after the Freeza arc simply does not instead me, not to mention I hate anti-heros (thanks to a certain hedgehog)

[gohann]

I agree with the OP. Goku is the main character so of course he's still around, but Vegeta has no business being there.

Totally agree, Vegtea after the Freeza arc simply does not instead me, not to mention I hate anti-heros (thanks to a certain hedgehog)

Yeah, and he is truly at his worst in the Cell arc.
Shadow? His presence from Sonic Heroes onward can only be summed up as fanservice, he was clearly only meant to appear in SA2B. Much like how Vegeta was revived just to appease his fans.

[dbzfan7]

Still I can't imagine a single scene today with Goku in it, that does not have John Cena's theme music playing in my head.

[Soppa Saia People]

Still I can't imagine a single scene today with Goku in it, that does not have John Cena's theme music playing in my head.

What about when he dies and gets the shit beat out of him ?

[dbzfan7]

Still I can't imagine a single scene today with Goku in it, that does not have John Cena's theme music playing in my head.

What when he dies and gets the shit beat out of him ?

That was back then, cause now your time is up his time is now now, you can see him his time is now now. It's the franchise he's shining now.

Spoiler: