Dub name changes

[Thedoctor2016]

Is it me or are the dub name changes (and spelling changes) stupid? Why couldn't Kururin be called that in the Dub as well as that is his name. As a person who is a new DB fan and just watched it all subbed and then playing XV and realising they changed Freeza's spelling to Frieza isn the JP way the natural way of spelling it? The changes just baffle me and how people don't like me calling Boo like that and not Buu annoys me.

[VegettoEX]

Lots of countries / dubbed productions around the world changed certain names for certain reasons. Some of them were for censorship (Mr. Satan's name being a big example). Some of them came from other countries that had already done so. Some of them are for no real discernible reason, though.

Maybe people will cling to the "easier to pronounce" explanation for some names (Kuririn being a prime example). In some cases that's fair, and in others it doesn't make much sense. Dragon Ball is filled with completely bonkers and off-the-wall names, many of which were kept in dubbed productions, and so to change some and leave others... when you put them side-by-side, you're kinda left just scratching your head. "Kuririn" doesn't seem all that strange to me if you're keeping "Spopovitch".

Do you have any specific examples of names that have changes that irritate you? Maybe we can break them down for you and try to explain where they originally come from in Japanese, what countries changed them, and perhaps why they were changed.

[Thedoctor2016]

Its more the spelling like why is Boo changed to Buu and Tenshinhan to Tien Shinhan. And of course Mr Satan being called Hercule does annoy me (though i understand the reasoning).

[mario0102]

I'm gonna go with, at least for the American verision, pronunciation reasons. I still can't figure out how to pronounce kuiririn. I can understand why people would have a problem with it, I don't really care all that much

[Thedoctor2016]

I'm gonna go with, at least for the American verision, pronunciation reasons. I still can't figure out how to pronounce kuiririn. I can understand why people would have a problem with it, I don't really care all that much

Well I've heard it so much i can easily pronounce it,but that doesnt explain why the spelling of Freeza is different in the US.

[VegettoEX]

"Boo" wasn't "changed" to "Buu". They're both perfectly valid romanizations of ブウ. Buu is a direct romanization using the standard system for doing so, while "Boo" is an adaptation of the transliteration using what we have for "rules" in "English" and knowing which letters make which sounds in context. The name comes from the Cinderella song, so if you want to show the direct nod to that song, maybe you'd use "Boo". I don't personally use "Bippity" or "Boppity" as spellings for the characters I call "Bibidi" and "Babidi"... so to me, using "Buu" makes sense.

Tenshinhan's name is a bit crazy, and for that I really recommend checking out our latest podcast episode. In short (and hopefully Herms can jump in if I'm way off here):

- Toriyama chose a Chinese-sounding name
- Its underlying basis is the name of a food that's Japanese in origin but mistakenly called / thought of as "Chinese food"; a dish made with rice from Tianjin in China
- Under the previous transliteration system (Wades-Giles), the region would be "Tientsin" (now under Pinyin it's "Tianjin")
- The character's name is written in Japanese exactly like the food (no extra syllables, elongated syllables, etc.): 天津飯
- As opposed to Chiaotzu (whose name is written with kanji and whose furigana indicates that you should pronounce the syllables as if they're Chinese), the furigana for 天津飯's name tell you to pronounce it as its Japanese reading: テンシンハン (or "Tenshinhan")
- So it's meant to be Chinese-ish but it's specifically indicated that you should pronounce it with its Japanese reading ("Tenshinhan") and not its Chinese reading ("Tianjinfan")

And Freeza's name? With the "i" in there? *shrug* Ain't nobody got an answer for that.

[Thedoctor2016]

"Boo" wasn't "changed" to "Buu". They're both perfectly valid romanizations of ブウ. Buu is a direct romanization using the standard system for doing so, while "Boo" is an adaptation of the transliteration using what we have for "rules" in "English" and knowing which letters make which sounds in context. The name comes from the Cinderella song, so if you want to show the direct nod to that song, maybe you'd use "Boo". I don't personally use "Bippity" or "Boppity" as spellings for the characters I call "Bibidi" and "Babidi"... so to me, using "Buu" makes sense.

Tenshinhan's name is a bit crazy, and for that I really recommend checking out our latest podcast episode. In short (and hopefully Herms can jump in if I'm way off here):

- Toriyama chose a Chinese-sounding name
- Its underlying basis is the name of a food that's Japanese in origin but mistakenly called / thought of as "Chinese food"; a dish made with rice from Tianjin in China
- Under the previous transliteration system (Wades-Giles), the region would be "Tientsin" (now under Pinyin it's "Tianjin")
- The character's name is written in Japanese exactly like the food (no extra syllables, elongated syllables, etc.): 天津飯
- As opposed to Chiaotzu (whose name is written with kanji and whose furigana indicates that you should pronounce the syllables as if they're Chinese), the furigana for 天津飯's name tell you to pronounce it as its Japanese reading: テンシンハン (or "Tenshinhan")
- So it's meant to be Chinese-ish but it's specifically indicated that you should pronounce it with its Japanese reading ("Tenshinhan") and not its Chinese reading ("Tianjinfan")

And Freeza's name? With the "i" in there? *shrug* Ain't nobody got an answer for that.

Right i use boo due to super mario and yeah Ten-san's name is confusing and I'm so glad someone agrees that the "i" in Freeza's dub name is stupid .

[Pokewhiz7]

It's worth pointing out that "Frieza" is not an incorrect spelling, just an unusual one. In English, the "ie" sound can be pronounced as "ee".

[Thedoctor2016]

[/s]

It's worth pointing out that "Frieza" is not an incorrect spelling, just an unusual one. In English, the "ie" sound can be pronounced as "ee".

True but his whole family is a pun on ice and cold as his name is based of a Freezer so the shorter and logical spelling is Freeza FRIEZA may be correct but to me its not a logical spelling

[Sandubadear]

Caterpy's name is oddly changed to "Oruga" in the Mexican and the Brazilian dub. Chaozu's name is changed to "Chaos" (spoken "Kaos") in Brazil, but I think that would fall under the reason of being "easier to pronounce".

[TheBlackPaladin]

From what I've gathered, very, very few dubs used the name "Kuririn." I believe the Brazilian Portuguese dub kept "Kuririn," but that's the only one I can think of off the top of my head (there may be others). One of the first threads I started at Kanzenshuu was asking whether his name was "Kuririn" or "Krillin." I was confused because Japanese doesn't naturally have the "L" sound in its language, and attempts to pronounce it often have the "L" sound sounding like "R" instead, so the thought occurred to me that perhaps his name is "Krillin," and that "Kuririn" is simply "Krillin" as pronounced with a Japanese accent. Complicating the matter even further is that when he lands on Namek, he's wearing a hat that says "Kulilin."

The two biggest takeaways from the thread where I asked about that were this:

The "kuri", when pronounced more natively than most folks (myself included), comes out with the "u" being short enough that it may as well just be "kri" (almost the same way that the "sasu" in "Sasuke" loses the "u"). That's not entirely an accurate way of describing it, but it's not as if it's "Kuuririn".

Swap the L/R dealie with the end (from "rin" to "lin"), and you've got "Krillin".

It may seem like it's a little bit of mental-and-romanization-gymnastics to get there, but it's not so far-fetched.

I always thought this example from DBZ episode 95 sounded very "Krillin"-esque.

Well, those are all technically valid ways of transliterating his name. But to get into why people hold to “Kuririn”, perhaps it’s best to explain where the character's name comes from, and what better way to do that than to quote my Name Pun Round-up? (I know, I have no shame)

Kuririn
There are a few things going on with Kuririn’s name, though Toriyama doesn’t really explain any of it (see below). First, kuri-kuri bouzu means a clean-shaven head, which certainly fits him. Second, 栗/kuri is Japanese for “chestnut”, which besides tying back into his “smooth head” image, is carried over into the name of his daughter (and in the anime, his early girlfriend). One of the title pages also shows Kuririn riding an air bike with the 栗/kuri kanji on the front. Finally, the “rin” on the end of his name may be a reference to the Shaolin monks (少林/Shourin in Japanese), a staple of martial arts films. “Shaolin” more or less translates to “little forest”, and the temple where Kuririn trained prior to become Kame-sennin’s pupil was called the Oorin Temple (多林寺/Oorin-ji), “big forest temple”, an obvious play on the name Shaolin. The Oorin uniform worn by Kuririn and his formal seniors at Oorin Temple are also clearly based on the Shaolin uniform.
Toriyama Explanation: “This is a name that I decided completely based on just the ambience from the character’s image. At that point, I didn’t think this was going to be a character that would continue to appear for a long time afterwards, so I used this half-baked naming.” [DBF]
Source Spelling:: くりくり/kuri-kuri 栗/kuri, 少林/Shourin
Name Spelling: クリリン/Kuririn

So, the gist of it is, they're both valid ways of saying his name. So, if I'm writing and have time to think about it, I'll write "Kuririn," but in casual conversation when I'm left to what I reflexively think of, I still call him "Krillin"...and unlike some dub pronounciations that I feel guilty for sticking to ("Say-in" for Saiyan instead of the correct pronunciation, "Sigh-in"), I don't feel bad about that one because it's a valid way of romanizing his name.

Perhaps the most complicated aspect of deciding what romanizations to go with is Toriyama's love of pun-based character names, and how the names relate to other characters. For example, apparently "Kakarot" is the correct way to pronounce Goku's Saiyan name, but with a Japanese accent, it's pronounced "Kakarotto," and the "tto" at the end is what the "tto" at the end of "Vegetto" (when Goku and Vegeta fuse) is attributable to. So "Kakarot" is the correct way to say it, but since the Japanese-accented pronunciation is where the name "Vegetto" comes from, either are acceptable.

[B]

I don't know if you've been through the first DB series yet, but a change I found the most unsavory was Crane Hermit/Tsuru Sennin becoming "Master Shen", and then when an actual character named Shen pops up, he gets his name changed to "Hero". There's no immediately obvious reason why those two names are picked for those characters. The dub doesn't shy away from using "Crane Hermit" or "Turtle Hermit", so I'm not sure why he needed a proper name in the the same vein that "Roshi" functions in their dub. Ten and Chaozu could've simply left it at "master," while everyone else could just say "Crane Hermit".

[Dbzfan94]

As VegettoEX said, "Buu" is correct as is "Boo." The others are kinda strange though, but I don't think there's a single dub that didn't change at least 1 name one way or another

[Sandubadear]

Also, Kamesen'nin is "Mestre Kame" and Tsurusen'nin is "Mestre Tsuru" in the Brazilian dub.

[Quebaz]

Also, Kamesen'nin is "Mestre Kame" and Tsurusen'nin is "Mestre Tsuru" in the Brazilian dub.

Funniest thing is that the Brazillian text for Xenoverse uses the Euro-Portuguese term, "Tartaruga Genial" (Genius Turtle) for Roshi inseatd of their own like everything else, how did they slip that up?

[fadeddreams5]

Is it me or are the dub name changes (and spelling changes) stupid? Why couldn't Kururin be called that in the Dub as well as that is his name. As a person who is a new DB fan and just watched it all subbed and then playing XV and realising they changed Freeza's spelling to Freeza isn the JP way the natural way of spelling it? The changes just baffle me and how people don't like me calling Boo like that and not Buu annoys me.

It annoys you because, I assume, the sub is the first version you watched? Most English speakers watched the dub first, so seeing another English speaker using names not used in the version most were exposed to can annoy them and make you seem like a purist or something, which is silly. The fandom for this series is divided because the original English dub wasn't a faithful adaptation of the original Japanese anime. =P

That said, I personally prefer most of the names in the dub. Kuririn is such a weird name to me. Tenshinhan makes sense for the pun, but Tien (Shinhan) is just more concise. Frieza looks cooler than Freeza. Hercule makes sense as a first name for Mr. Satan since Mark's meaning is lost here (and a common, boring name). I'm also in favor of techniques like Genki Dama and Kikoho being changed to Spirit Bomb and Tri-Beam. What I don't support is Kienzan being changed to Destructo Disc or Makankosappo being changed to Special Beam Cannon. The former sounds silly and contains more syllables. The latter also sounds goofy and just makes no sense (I'd settle for Piercing Murder/Demon Gun or something...).

[Super Sonic]

I don't know if you've been through the first DB series yet, but a change I found the most unsavory was Crane Hermit/Tsuru Sennin becoming "Master Shen", and then when an actual character named Shen pops up, he gets his name changed to "Hero". There's no immediately obvious reason why those two names are picked for those characters. The dub doesn't shy away from using "Crane Hermit" or "Turtle Hermit", so I'm not sure why he needed a proper name in the the same vein that "Roshi" functions in their dub. Ten and Chaozu could've simply left it at "master," while everyone else could just say "Crane Hermit".

Funny thing is they called him Crane Hermit more than Master Shen.

With spelling, I don't have an issue and if it's pronounced the same, I don't think of it as a change. For example, in the old Sailor Moon dub, Sailor Mars was the only inner Sailor Scout whose first name wasn't changed. Though the spelling was, most folks don't see it as one as it was pronounced the same, and when talking with people, due to that, she is only referred to by one name as it was the same. (For those not familiar with the old Sailor Moon dub, in merch and episode titles, etc. they anglicized the spelling to "Raye".)

[TheBlackPaladin]

The fandom for this series is divided because the original English dub wasn't a faithful adaptation of the original Japanese anime. =P

Well, it's my belief that that divide would have existed even if the English dub was faithful from the get-go. The Latino Spanish dub of the three original Dragon Ball anime shows is generally considered to be the best and most faithful dub that the shows ever got, but from what I've heard, even that fanbase largely refuses to watch the original Japanese version because, "Goku sounds like a woman." That complaint sounds rather familiar.

With that said, I of course agree that the unfaithfulness of the dub made the divide far, far worse than it was going to be. I'm simply saying that I believe it was still going to happen, even if it didn't end up being as bad as it currently is. Every anime ever released has a dub/sub divide among fandom. That's just the nature of the beast.

The former sounds silly and contains more syllables. The latter also sounds goofy and just makes no sense (I'd settle for Piercing Murder/Demon Gun or something...).

I agree, "Special Beam Cannon" always struck me as weird name...I don't know why, but for some odd reason that name always sounded more like it should be a low-level Limit Break in a Final Fantasy game (oddly specific, I know, but that's what it reminds me of). They should have kept "Makankosappo." Even among dubs that changed attack names, I've heard better examples. The German dub came up with the name "Hölle-Spiral" ("Hell-Spiral"), which I thought was badass-sounding and vaguely fitting since Piccolo is a member of the Demon Clan.

[Thedoctor2016]

The point of this topic wasn't me ti say I'm a purist i believe both have equal value, I just don't understand WHY these changes had to happen did FUNi want to pretend that DBZ wasn't from Japan, theres no real logical reason why the names or spellings had to change especially if they are used in the manga ( except Mr Satan which i hope is changing in Viz's fully uncut 3in1 sets)

[TheBlackPaladin]

The point of this topic wasn't me ti say I'm a purist i believe both have equal value, I just don't understand WHY these changes had to happen did FUNi want to pretend that DBZ wasn't from Japan, theres no real logical reason why the names or spellings had to change especially if they are used in the manga ( except Mr Satan which i hope is changing in Viz's fully uncut 3in1 sets)

Well, FUNimation certainly was making efforts to "re-version" DBZ in the early days and make the younger viewers think it was a cartoon of American origin. However, we were simply pointing out that in some cases, it wasn't a case of "changing" the names so much as it was different romanization choices, many of which are still completely valid (note the examples pointed out earlier with "Kuririn/Krillin," "Kakarot/Kakarotto," etc.).

Some names were just flat-out changed, though, with "Mr. Satan/Hercule" being a good example. As for why they were changed? *Shrug.* It varies on a case-by-case basis, I suppose. "Hercule" was probably a case of the TV networks saying that the word "Satan" will anger too many parents.