Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[ahill1]

Shin was never compared to Cell-Games Goku.

He was in a Guidebook called El Manga Legendario, although we only have access to the Spanish version, so we don't know if this was an embellishment from the Spanish producers.

El Manga Legendario is a Spanish-and-French only product. It doesn’t have a Japanese version. It’s official, but if it counts or not that’s an entirely different discussion.

Anyway, I read the text in which he talks about Shin and it’s very clear that the writer made an assumption.

“Judging by the precautions he takes against Dabra, who has a level similar to that of Cell, it can be deduced that he has the same strength that Goku had during the Cell Games”.

It's quite a leap in logic to assume Shin is as strong as CGs Goku based on his cautious demeanor against Dabura, indeed.

[ahill1]

Thoughts?

I assume this God power was deep inside Kid Boo and that he couldn't actually use it. Maybe this will have an implication on Oob as well, possibly futurely mastering it.

Btw, I don't really like the idea. He is the Boo with no influence , without any Kaioshin altering his nature or actions. He wasn't held back by anything (only from killing Satan once since fat was inside him) and is oficially called Pure Boo... He has no influence. Applying God chi to him just seems unnecessary and seems to go against a well established fact and description.

Kid Boo absorbed South Kaioshin, his power was benefited by that... And then the Dai Kaioshin's absorption somewhat tamed him, making him more controllable amd weaker. This absorption apparently trapped most of his powers and made Dai Kaioshin someone dominant in Boo's nature and physiology. This fat Boo was described as having a deceptive chi, which makes sense considering the implications pointing towards the Kaioshin not having a sensible chi. This one should be the Boo consumed by the God chi, like layed down pretty swiftly in the original, not all of a sudden the evil and pure one.

[ahill1]

What are your guys' estimations for the base Saiyajins in the Super, Toyotaro's manga? Current base Saiyajins. I think this is one topic that a lot of people don't see eye to eye on.

[ahill1]

As for the discussion involving base Goku, I'd say that him not fainting while Kaioshin did is an indicative of his base eclipsing Kaioshin. It's already kinda obvious when in the manga's events of the RoF movie base Goku states that for now, his base power is enough to deal with final form Freeza (emphasized in the movie as him holding a sizeable advantage), while Gohan and Piccolo stated both were no match for Freeza even when Freeza was on his first form. Goku and Vegeta have just gotten to a new level in their base states post the training with Whis apparently.

Plus, less than 10% SSJB Vegeta is still aplarently close enough to Hit that this latter's timeskip could make a fool of him, whereas Goku in SSJ was already enough to fight almost on par with this same Hit, only losing due to Hit's ability. So if SSJ Goku is already somewhat close to a tenth of Blue's power while Goku upon achieving the SSJG stated such in an inconceivable power, it's made implicit the lower states somehow got wayyy stronger than during the Boo arc or the introduction of Beerus.

[ahill1]

SSJ Goku is still likely below < 10% Blue Vegeta as Beerus singled out the God state as in surpassing Vegeta's blue state. Still close to one another though.

I think Toriyama stated that by using the SSJ to its Full potential they wouldn't make use of the higher non-god states. It's clear AT hasn't gone this route though as Goku and Vegeta still now and then uses their SSJ2 and SSJ3, the latter on Goku's case.

[ahill1]

Whis said Vegeta was at less than 10%, not close to it. Even SSJ3 is at least 8x SSJ’s power, so we shouldn’t take that so literally.

Yes, but if he were way below 10% I think Whis would be more specific in regards to the amount. "Below 10%" seems like an understament if he were, like, at 1%.

By the way Ahill, how strong do you reckon the forms are, exactly? And what do you make of Piccolo, who was not specified to have trained so hard in the manga, supposedly surpassing the Base Saiyans, who have now surpassed Kaioshin?

Given the logic I sprawled above, I think the lower states are somewhat relevant to the God forms post Whis training. SSJ Goku isn't that below not far from 10% Blue Vegeta and also worth adding up that when Goku saw how Trunks equaled his SSJ3 and stated Black was even more impressive than that, Goku seemed somewhat worried for a minute, which might point out at his God states not being THAT far from his SSJ3.

Going by scaling from the less than 10% Blue Vegeta's performance in conjuntion with Goku's SSJ fight against Hit and considering the statement performed by Goku right after he achieved the God state that this surpasses any imaginable level, I'd say their lower states are reaching the strongest fighters from the Z era, likely surpassing even the strongest one shown with SSJ3 in Goku's case.

[ahill1]

So, a little post revolving around ranks and numbers. Let's play with the numbers a little, assigning them to each fighter as we see fit.

Goku and Cell have a more or less even fight. When Cell decides to show he's too fast even without Shunkan Idou, he crosses around Goku a few times, who's doing everything he possibly can to keep up. Cell described their powers as "close to a certain extent". 1.1x gap seems fitting enough here. That's the kinda advantage we see imo.


Goku 100
Cell 110

Then Gohan comes to play. Gohan admits he wasn't impressed by Goku and Cell and thinks Goku is holding back. Well, while this already shifts our focus to how incredible Gohan may be, he thinking Goku is holding back likely stems from his preconception that his father must be way stronger.

But then Gohan powers up. Cell admits in not so clear terms that Goku has been surpassed. Cell attacks the boy with seemingly the same effort he used against Goku and Gohan avoids those no problem. Gohan leisurely deals with Cell's attacks aimed at him. Cell then see forced to use more speed, but Gohan still comes from his attack unscratched. So assigning Gohan a 12% advantage over the level Cell used against Goku seems fine. More seems unwarranted, as the goal quickly shifts to enraged Gohan. That's what will get the job done. I may assign a power increase to Cell even though he only mentions speed out of convenience. I think it's possible that Gohan holds a slight advantage over Cell as Cell uses his chi blasts as a decoy to get Gohan in a crushing hug. And when Gohan gets swatted away by Cell later on when trying to save his friends, it's possible he was weakened by Cell's earlier assault.

Goku 100
Cell (vs Goku) 110
Cell (real speed) 120
Gohan 125

Then comes my preferences. Cell's power up to FP seems very alike Vegeta's transformation to grade 2. There's a similarity in their aura, in their physics... I think Cell is drawing from the same source Vegeta was when resorting to grade 2. It'd be then nice to keep the boost constant.

As for the grade 2's boost, it really seems the same type of power up, more or less, Freeza achieved when bulking up and going 100%. He was still thin at 70%, but his body started to adapt once he began powering up to 100%. So a 70/100 power up for grade 2 would find backing in the same increase a character achieved when going through a similar process. And it also so happens to sit right in the middle between the 2x multiplier. So, having Cell undergoing a 70/100 power up...

Goku 100
Cell 110
Cell 120
Gohan 125
Cell (full power) 172

That's where Cell would sit, approximately.

Now, there's the SSJ2-type power up he gets when getting that Zenkai. It'd be nice to have it coinciding with the SSJ2's boost, as well. If we pick the one given in the SEG, that would double his "SSJ-like" power (It's worth noting that he seems to be using a SSJ-like power like Goku and Gohan when fighting both, which also finds backing in the aura and bodily structure, only resorting to the grade 2-esque when going FP, so this SSJ-like power is the one that gets multiplied), meaning he'd get up to 240. If we double Gohan's as well, as a result, he'd be getting up to 250, which is the same exact advantage he had before Cell went full power. If we want to accommodate some possible rage boost, we could push Gohan up to 270... But more than that and his advantage over SPC would be too pronounceable.

Goku 100
Cell 110
Cell 120
Gohan 125
Cell (full power) 172
Super Perfect 240
Gohan SSJ2 270

Well, that was more a list experimenting backing on other power ups, with similar auras and nature, and seeing how it'd end up. It doesn't necessarily reflect how I'd like the gaps to be.

[ahill1]

How strong do you have the earthlings at their prime in the manga? Which battle power figure would you assign them when they capped out?

We know that Kuririn is the strongest earthling as late as the Boo saga... and that back in the Freeza's arc, he was considered as an asset against Freeza, whose BP was believed to be 530~600k. He has trained 3 years for the androids and is seen training some more for the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai as he'd be participating.

Tenshinhan and Yamcha have spent a good time around Kaio. Iirc 1 year for the Namekians equals 130 days for Earth, meaning Yamcha spent there 136 days, as he was wished firstly, while Tenshinhan spent 266 days, approximately, more time than Goku spent there. Tenshinhan stated he wouldn't surpass Goku if subjected to the same training and that he'd do some twists here and there and incorporate the teachings to his fighting style iirc. Still, we have no clue about how strong they left Kaio. Yamcha is deemed by himself as the least useful, while Tenshinhan is weaker than Kuririn, but holds a technique that can buy the androids time against Semi Cell.

In the Boo saga Tenshinhan has a badass apparition, nullifying Bootenks' attack aimed at Dende, is complimented by the same Boo as "quite a master", but that's it.

So... estimations?

[ahill1]

I personally find this very good. I mean, you were able to make this list of PLs without making SSJ2 seem like a power-up of tens of times. Many people forget that rage boosts and simple power-ups may increase someone's strength, without affecting the multiplier of a transformation though.

You think that you can expand a little on Vegeta, FTrunks, Piccolo the androids and the lesser forms of Cell? I think that the way you sorted this fight out, it won't be difficult. At least in their max, without taking into account the RoSaT if needed (for Base form power increases)

Thanks, man! I appreciate the input. Sure, will add them.

In regards to Piccolo, we have some tibits of evidence pointing towards him being relevant to the level Goku showcased at Karin and expected Cell (initially, the one who whooped Super Vegeta's ass). Trunks seems surprised when Goku confirms Piccolo's suspiscions, telling him that yeah, green buddy isn't relevant against Cell. Trunks' surprise is very telling imo, as in, he didn't expect Piccolo to be straight garbage for the Cell that until such point, had the level used against him and Vegeta as his theoretical full power. It's after this exchange that Trunks confirms that the rabit hole runs deeper on Cell's power and that the level he expected to be his FP, alongside Goku's showcased level at Karin, is only scratching the surface. Plus, Piccolo's performance against the Cell Juniors, in which the shape he ends at is comparable to Vegeta and Trunks', with Herms also reflecting the Cell's recollection of the fight and mentioning of Vegeta and Trunks statement as a not exclusive one.

Vegeta seems confident when he heads at the CGs. He heads there first, showing that he's anxious (which generally comes accompanied of some sort of confidence) and Goku takes Vegeta rushing as a signal that he must have increased his powers a lot. He's okay with Goku going first, adding that he'll be the one to finish Cell. So he's confident, showing that he has at least surpassed Goku's showcased level at Karin and the level Cell formely used to trounce him.

But still, we gotta take note of something... Vegeta isn't his smug arrogant self. He seems very serious and interested in Kakarrot's power. In fact, when Goku's about to fight, he adds a "show me what you can do, Kakarrot", showing that he ought to have some suspiscions of his own about the extent of Goku's power. Piccolo and Trunks, based on the logic sprawled above, knew Goku and Cell can be way more powerful... Vegeta suspects the same, and while he surpassed the minimum requirements, it doesn't seem to be by enough that he wouldn't be uneasy at the prospect of a Goku that can be more powerful than the one previously sensed.

I like to place Piccolo right at Goku's 50% level, which fits Trunks surprise at his uselesness (if they expected Cell to be a 55 [Goku said Cell "may" be more powerful, so I think they're expecting a somewhat close Goku and Cell], then Piccolo at 50 couldn't be useless... he's basically a Goku. Unless Cell has some deep reserves, which Trunks likely catches on), with this level also working with the Dabura/SSJ teen Gohan >> Kaioshin >>> Piccolo we are given in the Boo saga. I like Vegeta/Trunks sitting at 60%, which also seems fair enough with Vegeta's confidence, but at the same time curiosity and cautiousness. It's also worth noting that Cell has lost quite a lot of power from fighting Goku -- firstly spends a good chunk of his power at regenerating his upper body and then says the damage taken from Goku's spam of chi blasts was "surprisingly large"... and yet Vegeta nor Trunks gave any signal of wanting to tangle with Cell, so the more distant you have Vegeta and Trunks from Goku all while having them still noticeably above 50% Goku, the best.

Piccolo - 50
Vegeta/Trunks - 60
Cell Juniors - 62.5
Goku 100
Cell 110
Gohan 120



... as for the previous powers and forms of Cell...

I like the line of thinking that the Cell who trounced Super Vegeta is about on par with 50% Goku, only slightly stronger, as when Goku powers up to 50%, unbeknownst to everyone, it seems they accept Goku's wording that he likely can't win, questioning Goku's carefree mentality instead. It seems his power up at Karin would fit well with the "I likely can't win" if it's placed below the level used to trounce grade 2 Vegeta, but still close enough to reflect the 'likely' can't win. It's also nice that it allows a 2x power up for both Goku and Cell, compared to what they had shown before.

Goku 50% - 50
Cell (vs Vegeta) - 55

-- Same gap at play in comparison to when they fought at full power (well, Goku only, not Cell).

Scaling Super Vegeta, we know he is way weaker than this Cell. Cell tanking his kick seems more impressive than the tank kid Gohan pulled off against full power Cell, so I'd likely have the gap higher (if the Gohan SSJ2 vs Cell one was a 60%, a 50%-55% would do here).

Vegeta SSJG2 - 30

As for the grade 2's multiplier, refers to the above. I like it as a 70/100, 1.4x boost, making SSJ Vegeta a 21 or so. 

Semi Cell is initially in a respectful range, but Trunks seems surprised at Vegeta promptly transforming, implying he may not have needed that at the beginning. But once Semi Cell goes FP, I think it's safe to say he has surpassed SSJ Vegeta. I feel Vegeta, with his arrogance and dismissive attitude, would comment something like "I don't even need this new state to defeat you" if Semi Cell at full power didn't stand up to even SSJ1. So if Vegeta SSJ is ~ 21 in the scale, Semi Cell at full power would be a 24 or so... still falling short to Vegeta's 30 when in grade 2.

Scaling down, we'd find #16 and Imperfect Cell. Using the tanking feat again to determine the gap, we have initial Semi Cell barely moving his head at #16's punch. Seems also a more impressive tank in comparison to SSJ2 Gohan vs Perfect Cell... and similar to Super Vegeta vs initial Perfect Cell. So we may be looking at the same difference here, given to me above as 55% (#16 is 55% of initial Semi Cell).

With initial Semi Cell being in the range but likely weaker than SSJ Vegeta, who is himself a 21, a 19 would do here, making #16... a 10 or so. Same for Imperfect Cell post earthlings.

As for Imperfect Cell in relation to #17/Piccolo... we are looking at another pretty large gap. I got a nice way to more or less figure out a range for Piccolo before the RoSaT. Cell stated, when battling Kamiccolo for the first time, that if he absorbed Kamiccolo's power, he'd get close to his initial evolution state... and when Cell showed up later on, overflowing from the energies from the humans, he stated he overdid it and absorbed more than needed to be. So Cell (post absorptions) > Cell (1st evolution complete) > Cell (post absorbing Kamiccolo) seems a correlating standard.

I know Cell's absorptions don't seem additive, but assuming it'd be, it'd give us a heck of a solid ground to work on.

Imperfect Cell (initially) - 3.75
Kamiccolo (weighted0 - 4.5
Kamiccolo (no-weights) - 5
Android #17 - 5
Imperfect Cell (+Kamiccolo) - 8.25 (close to first evolution)
Imperfect Cell (first evolution completed) - 9
Imperfect Cell (post earthlings, overdid it) - 10
Android #16 - 10
Semi Cell (initial) - 19
SSJ Vegeta - 21
Semi Cell (FP) - 24
SSJG2 Vegeta - 30
50% Goku - 50
Piccolo - 50
Cell (vs Vegeta) - 55
Vegeta/Trunks - 60
Cell Juniors - 62.5
Goku - 100
Cell - 110
Cell (vs Gohan) - 120
Gohan - 120
Cell (FP) - 172
SPC - 240
SSJ2 Gohan - 270



There! Everything seems all well backed up and justified . If you want me to go more in depth about some other character's number in the scale I've provided, feel free to ask

As we know, Goku and vegeta both surpassed ssj2 cell games gohan only with their ssj2.
Both Goku and vegeta were stated to be stronger than cell games piccolo in the manga, considering that vegeta was sure of winning the tournament in base even if both piccolo and 18 were there.
In the anime instead, gohan said that vegeta was more powerful than ever when vegeta was fighting pui pui, and shin was stated to be as strong as ssj cell games Goku in an anime guide.

Thaks for the comment and praise!

Tens of times seems too much for me. I know that you're trying to rationalize the implications of the base Saiyajins' super strength in the Boo saga, which is admittedly what we might stumble upon if taking feats and statements at face value, but what about using lessened SSJ's multipliers? That might ease a little the CGs gaps. I could work with SSJ in the Boo saga being as low as 2x a boost, if I feel the need to incorporate the base >> Piccolo implications.

As for Kaioshin in comparison to CGs Goku, it's worth noting it was only given in the El Manga Legendario guide, and we don't know if such statement was an embellishment from the Spanish's production, so gotta be wary of that.

[ahill1]

I personally find this very good. I mean, you were able to make this list of PLs without making SSJ2 seem like a power-up of tens of times. Many people forget that rage boosts and simple power-ups may increase someone's strength, without affecting the multiplier of a transformation though.

You think that you can expand a little on Vegeta, FTrunks, Piccolo the androids and the lesser forms of Cell? I think that the way you sorted this fight out, it won't be difficult. At least in their max, without taking into account the RoSaT if needed (for Base form power increases)

Thanks, man! I appreciate the input. Sure, will add them.

In regards to Piccolo, we have some tibits of evidence pointing towards him being relevant to the level Goku showcased at Karin and expected Cell (initially, the one who whooped Super Vegeta's ass). Trunks seems surprised when Goku confirms Piccolo's suspiscions, telling him that yeah, green buddy isn't relevant against Cell. Trunks' surprise is very telling imo, as in, he didn't expect Piccolo to be straight garbage for the Cell that until such point, had the level used against him and Vegeta as his theoretical full power. It's after this exchange that Trunks confirms that the rabit hole runs deeper on Cell's power and that the level he expected to be his FP, alongside Goku's showcased level at Karin, is only scratching the surface. Plus, Piccolo's performance against the Cell Juniors, in which the shape he ends at is comparable to Vegeta and Trunks', with Herms also reflecting the Cell's recollection of the fight and mentioning of Vegeta and Trunks statement as a not exclusive one.

Vegeta seems confident when he heads at the CGs. He heads there first, showing that he's anxious (which generally comes accompanied of some sort of confidence) and Goku takes Vegeta rushing as a signal that he must have increased his powers a lot. He's okay with Goku going first, adding that he'll be the one to finish Cell. So he's confident, showing that he has at least surpassed Goku's showcased level at Karin and the level Cell formely used to trounce him.

But still, we gotta take note of something... Vegeta isn't his smug arrogant self. He seems very serious and interested in Kakarrot's power. In fact, when Goku's about to fight, he adds a "show me what you can do, Kakarrot", showing that he ought to have some suspiscions of his own about the extent of Goku's power. Piccolo and Trunks, based on the logic sprawled above, knew Goku and Cell can be way more powerful... Vegeta suspects the same, and while he surpassed the minimum requirements, it doesn't seem to be by enough that he wouldn't be uneasy at the prospect of a Goku that can be more powerful than the one previously sensed.

I like to place Piccolo right at Goku's 50% level, which fits Trunks surprise at his uselesness (if they expected Cell to be a 55 [Goku said Cell "may" be more powerful, so I think they're expecting a somewhat close Goku and Cell], then Piccolo at 50 couldn't be useless... he's basically a Goku. Unless Cell has some deep reserves, which Trunks likely catches on), with this level also working with the Dabura/SSJ teen Gohan >> Kaioshin >>> Piccolo we are given in the Boo saga. I like Vegeta/Trunks sitting at 60%, which also seems fair enough with Vegeta's confidence, but at the same time curiosity and cautiousness. It's also worth noting that Cell has lost quite a lot of power from fighting Goku -- firstly spends a good chunk of his power at regenerating his upper body and then says the damage taken from Goku's spam of chi blasts was "surprisingly large"... and yet Vegeta nor Trunks gave any signal of wanting to tangle with Cell, so the more distant you have Vegeta and Trunks from Goku all while having them still noticeably above 50% Goku, the best.

Piccolo - 50
Vegeta/Trunks - 60
Cell Juniors - 62.5
Goku 100
Cell 110
Gohan 120

And that's it. If you want me to go more in depth about some other character's number in the scale I've provided, feel free to ask

For now, I am covered. I think that you would do a great favor to the Fandom if you posted a complete Cell Saga tier list. No need to do it now of course. You have provided me with good info. I am currently examining other sagas, so I truly appreciate it when people measure said sagas with great detail themselves. It gives me an idea.

Now 8 will always use these data. They can be easily adjusted to my scale. Thanks a lot! I will tell you if I need something more.

I've edited my previous post and added more characters, until the Piccolo's fight with #17. Tell me what you think. I've provided the reasons behind each gaps as well

[ahill1]

As for the grade 2's boost, it really seems the same type of power up, more or less, Freeza achieved when bulking up and going 100%. He was still thin at 70%, but his body started to adapt once he began powering up to 100%. So a 70/100 power up for grade 2 would find backing in the same increase a character achieved when going through a similar process. And it also so happens to sit right in the middle between the 2x multiplier. So, having Cell undergoing a 70/100 power up...

So many things fell into place when I ventured down this line of thinking... although I took things a little further...

I'm glad someone else is walking a similar path.

That's nice! I feel happy going down the same route you do

Which other things fell into place? You made me curious

[Akumaito Beam]

I'm not big into in-universe discussions so excuse me if this is an ignorant question. Is there a Battle Power guide out there that's generally accepted to be pretty accurate? I know there are guides that only transcribe the BPs from the manga but I'm looking more for a list where the writer makes a rough guess about where the other characters are power wise alongside the official numbers.

Again, sorry if this is a really commonly asked question. I have a feeling this is like wandering into General Franchise Discussion and asking "Who wrote Dragonball!?"

[Alex9196]

here is my list of the whole z series. but let me say first off that i basically overtook an allready existing list that i pretty much agreed on and just changed it up just a bit for things i didnt really agree on. if you want to see the original list i can send u a link.

radditz shows up

piccolo 408
goku 416
gohan 1
gohan angry 1307
radditz 1500

nappa and vegeta show up

gohan 1500
gohan oozaru 15.000
piccolo 2500
krillin 1500
chao zu 1000
yamcha 1300
tenshinhan 1800
yajirobe 250
goku 8100

saibaimen 1200
nappa 4000
vegeta 18000
vegeta oozaru 180.000

namek arrival

vegeta (zenkai from earth) 25.000
kiwi 18.000
dodoria 20.000
zarbon 23.000
zarbon transformed 30.000
vegeta (zenkai from zarbon) 35.000
namekians 3.000
freeza soldiers 500
krillin (guru unlocked) 12.000
gohan (guru unlocked) 15.000

ginyu force shows up

guldo 10.000
jeice 43.000
burta 44.000
rikuum 45.000
ginyu 120.000
ginyu (gokus body) 23.000
vegeta (zenkai from rikuum) 60.000
goku 180.000
gohan (zenkai from rikuum) 20.000
nail 42.000
freeza 1 form 530.000

vs freeza

freeza 2 form 1.060.000
freeza 3 form 2.120.000
freeza final 4.240.000
piccolo 1.400.000
vegeta (zenkai from krillin) 2.000.000

goku (zenkai from ginyu) 3.000.000
goku ssj 150.000.000

freeza 100% 120.000.000

trunks shows up

ssj trunks 170.000.000
ssj goku 200.000.000

mecha freeza 6.000.000 ( if he would have gotten time to go max 170.000.000)
king cold 2 form 1.000.000

androids show up

yamcha 150.000
tenshinhan 300.000
krillin 275.000
piccolo 100.000.000
gohan 2.000.000
ssj vegeta 230.000.000
ssj trunks 220.000.000

dr gero 90.000.000
c19 80.000.000
c18 290.000.000
c17 300.000.000

cell shows up

cell 1 form 270.000.000
piccolo fused 310.000.000
cell (humans absorbed) 390.000.000
c16 380.000.000
cell 2 form 690.000.000
vegeta ssj 600.000.000
trunks ssj 580.000.000
vegeta ussj 850.000.000
trunks ussj 830.000.000
perfect cell 980.000.000
trunks uussj 1.200.000.000

cell games

goku ssj 4.000.000.000
cell max power 4.500.000.000
gohan ssj 4.200.000.000
cell jr. 2.200.000.000
vegeta ssj 2.000.000.000
trunks ssj 1.800.000.000
gohan ssj3 8.400.000.000
cell zenkai boost 9.000.000.000

buu saga

ssj2 gohan 7.000.000.000
dabura 8.000.000.000
ssj2 goku 10.000.000.000
majin vegeta 10.000.000.000
fat buu 23.000.000.000
goku ssj3 30.000.000.000 (max would be 40.000.000.000)
evil buu 29.000.000.000
super buu 52.000.000.000
goten ssj 270.000.000
trunks ssj 285.000.000
gotenks ssj3 54.000.000.000
piccolo 4.000.000.000
buutenks 110.000.000.000
gohan mystic 70.000.000.000
buucolo 56.000.000.000
buuhan 126.000.000.000
ssj vegetto 476.000.000.000
kid buu 29.000.000.000
ssj3 goku 30.000.000.000
ssj2 vegeta 8.500.000.000

[Alex9196]

yeah thats the list, do you also have one dbgtFO?

[Alex9196]

funny i didnt notice that. i dont really read peoples signatures since most of them are random stuff

[Alex9196]

king cold is very hard to guess i think. i mean you never saw what he can do since he was wiped out with ease by trunks. i guessed 1.000.000 because freeza also had around a million in his second form.

about vegeta, yeah its probably a bit to high.

yarirobe seems fine to me. he didnt do a thing against the nappa and he only cut of vegetas tail. rememper puar was able to cut off oozaru gokus tail so you dont have to be strong to do it. and also as he was shown training, he was mainly eating and didnt really care.

and even after a year of preparation i cant imagine that he could beat goku or piccolo when they were up against radditz.

[Alex9196]

if the movie 5 list is true than the "cooler force" would destroy the ginyu force.

also i read your signature noah. i dont agree that you have to be a child or have a childish side in you to enjoy db.
i am sick of people labering it as a kids show. everyone can watch it.

also in my opinion a kids show is a show aimed purely for children and no adult can enjoy it like dora, spongebob and stuff of that sort.

dbz is funny and thats good, but i think everyone understands the humor and can laugh about it. and maybe its not the show with a lot of dark moments but that doesnt have to be in my opinion. not every "adult" series has to be dark.

[Alex9196]

Does anyone has a powerlevel list on the movies?

[Alex9196]

@hOkuten

You have Golden Freeza over Goku And Vegeta? In my opinion Goku was clearly stronger.

[Alex9196]

@hOkuten

You have Golden Freeza over Goku And Vegeta? In my opinion Goku was clearly stronger.

Freeza lost the fight because of the drain from his golden form. Goku even comments he may not win their fight at the rate it was going.

So yeah, Gold Freeza is > SSGSS Goku by a decent margin.

Right, I forgot that. Just saw the movie yesterday. I really thought it would be awesome but after it I was like: What did I just watch?

Is there a thread to discuss about it? Because if I discuss here it will be off-topic and many people will complain about spoilers?