What do you think would have been the best ending point?

Li'l Lemmy · Post by **Li'l Lemmy** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:42 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Daimo-Rukiri wrote:That would have made the best ending, the hero dies and the earth lives on.
I agree, the Freeza Saga was the best ending.

Really, that's exactly what we should have gotten-- a mere glimpse of the Super Saiyan power, just a glimpse. This shit we're given instead where we've got a seven-year-old talking about how he doesn't even remember his initial trigger for a legendary transformation . . . no. Just no.

I love Goten to pieces, though. So at odds with myself . . .

~Da Lemmy

SHINOBI-03 · Post by **SHINOBI-03** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:55 pm

Am I the only one here who sees the end of the 23rd TenkaIchi Budokai a better ending for the series?!

Li'l Lemmy · Post by **Li'l Lemmy** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:01 pm

I don't see that as the best ending personally, no, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't.

I think that you'd just lose too much without at least Freeza in the picture. He, or rather the unintentional impact his actions have on Goku and earth, gives the protagonist a destiny and the series an epic purpose.

~Da Lemmy

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:09 pm

SHINOBI-03 wrote:Am I the only one here who sees the end of the 23rd TenkaIchi Budokai a better ending for the series?!

It could have been.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:27 pm

SHINOBI-03 wrote:Am I the only one here who sees the end of the 23rd TenkaIchi Budokai a better ending for the series?!

Did you read my opening post...?

SHINOBI-03 · Post by **SHINOBI-03** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:32 pm

Amigo Ten wrote:
SHINOBI-03 wrote:Am I the only one here who sees the end of the 23rd TenkaIchi Budokai a better ending for the series?!
Did you read my opening post...?

I have a cold... my mind is 15% less functional than usuall... must've skipped that... need to get some sleep

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:37 pm

I think the 23rd Budokai is the second-best ending.

Freeza just wraps it all up so well. It's because of Freeza that Goku was sent to Earth in the first place. Goku discovers his past, learns to accept it, and fulfills the greatest legend of his race. Vegeta dies a broken man, a prince pleading with a peasant. Piccolo discovers his past and bravely fights the exterminator of his people. The Dragonballs are destroyed forever, ending the old order. And Gohan, his hidden powers unlocked by Guru, is now the strongest being in the universe.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:46 pm

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:50 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:and really did feel like that was what the Saiya-jin and Freeza storylines were leading up to.

Not to mention that old rumor that Toriyama wanted to end it after Freeza...

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:51 pm

The thing with Freeza is it only wraps things up that were introduced after the 23rd tournament anyway. Goku's origin was never some huge mystery or anything. He was monkey-boy because he just was, it never needed an explanation.

And even then all that could have been wrapped up in the Saiyan saga, since Freeza is never mentioned or even implied to exist until the fight with Vegeta is over. Goku's origins are revealed, and he defeats the Prince of his race to prove the Saiyan class system wrong, separate himself from his biological heritage and show once and for all that he's and Earthling.

Piccolo's heritage is a little wasted without a trip to Namek, but it could have been done without Freeza. Have it a much shorter epilogue type thing, with Gohan and Krillin just having a fun romp across Namek searching for Dragonballs. Would have been a nice recall to the earlier series.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:59 pm

Amigo Ten wrote:The thing with Freeza is it only wraps things up that were introduced after the 23rd tournament anyway.

The difference is, the 23rd Budokai isn't an ending-ending. It's like the Uub "ending", in that nothing is resolved, the author just slams the book closed and goes "Ok, I'm done, figure the rest out for yourselves".

I hate that.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:05 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Amigo Ten wrote:The thing with Freeza is it only wraps things up that were introduced after the 23rd tournament anyway.
The difference is, the 23rd Budokai isn't an ending-ending. It's like the Uub "ending", in that nothing is resolved, the author just slams the book closed and goes "Ok, I'm done, figure the rest out for yourselves".

I hate that.

Really? I don't see how it's less of an ending than Freeza, unless Goku is left dead afterwords.

But I think that type of ending that implies the adventure isn't over is better for Dragonball.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:12 pm

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:22 pm

Like I said before, that type of ending is a VERY un-Toriyama-like ending. It's too negative, and Dragon Ball isn't some big, complex tragedy.

I dunno...I never got that type of feeling with the Frieza saga, like "THIS IS IT" or that, "this is the guy who is responsible for the entire series happening." I mean, sure in technical terms, he is the reason that Goku is on earth, but the story really doesn't do anything to make it a big deal or seem all that important, or even mention that fact. That's just something that the fans themselves would have to notice. And like Amigo Ten said, Frieza isn't even mentioned until after the fight with Vegeta, and the story doesn't do much to build a real connection between Goku and Frieza other than Frieza saying that he has a feeling that another Saiyan will be his opponent in the near future. And even then, he seems to forget that Goku exists because he assumes that Gohan is Raditz's son and thought that Gohan and Vegeta were the last Saiyans left.

Maybe it's because I didn't start watching DBZ until the Cell Saga, but even then, it wasn't until years later where I realized that that particular saga was the perfect ending.

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:35 pm

Amigo Ten wrote:But I think that type of ending that implies the adventure isn't over is better for Dragonball.

Not really. Four words: Fanfic writing yaoi fangirls.

Senzu_Bean · Post by **Senzu_Bean** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:40 pm

Amigo Ten wrote:But I think that type of ending that implies the adventure isn't over is better for Dragonball.

I agree!

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:56 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:Maybe it's because I didn't start watching DBZ until the Cell Saga, but even then, it wasn't until years later where I realized that that particular saga was the perfect ending.

Why? What does the Cell Saga ending have that the Freeza Saga ending doesn't?

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:00 pm

SparkyPantsMcGee · Post by **SparkyPantsMcGee** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:04 pm

Rocketman wrote:I think the 23rd Budokai is the second-best ending.

Freeza just wraps it all up so well. It's because of Freeza that Goku was sent to Earth in the first place. Goku discovers his past, learns to accept it, and fulfills the greatest legend of his race. Vegeta dies a broken man, a prince pleading with a peasant. Piccolo discovers his past and bravely fights the exterminator of his people. The Dragonballs are destroyed forever, ending the old order. And Gohan, his hidden powers unlocked by Guru, is now the strongest being in the universe.

I see your point and its a valid one but I always felt the freeza saga to be the climax of the series. Goku has this new found power, he is enlightened by his past(as piccolo was too) and Gohan has this untapped power released and now has all this fighting potential that has yet to be discovered by training.

On top of that nothing was resolved character development wise. Here you have two rivals, Vegeta and Goku and if you leave it at Freeza they are both just dead, no one comes to terms with one another theres no drive to be better than each other, nothing...they just die. On top of that, all of the other fighters are dead too, Tien, Yamcha, Krillin, everyone is gone. What kind of ending is that? Everyone is gone but Gohan and Piccolo(who by the way is still evil)

Whats to stop him from going back to earth and still becoming the ruler? He wasn't Pure until his merging with Kami. Gohan wouldn't be able to stop him, Piccolo taught him everything he knew.

There was no real closer at the end of the Freeza saga, in my opinion the cell saga could have been the closing point. Goku and Vegeta's powers are almost equal Its just Goku knows how to handle it. Goku dies and passes the tourch on to Gohan the new hero of earth(with his hidden powers finally mastered). Piccolo is at peace, and everyone is alive and well. It just seemed like the perfect ending.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:08 pm

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:On top of that nothing was resolved character development wise. Here you have two rivals, Vegeta and Goku and if you leave it at Freeza they are both just dead, no one comes to terms with one another theres no drive to be better than each other, nothing...they just die.

So? Vegeta's not Goku's rival in the Freeza Saga, he's a bad guy.

On top of that, all of the other fighters are dead too, Tenshinhan, Yamcha, Krillin, everyone is gone. What kind of ending is that? Everyone is gone but Gohan and Piccolo(who by the way is still evil)

Piccolo is killed by Freeza's attack, that's why the Dragonballs are gone.