Kaioshin

[dbgtFO]

Even though he never tries to hold it or release it, I think that should be enough proof.

If Gohan can hold it in his base then for sure Kaioshin can spin it like nothing.

You're right about that
He didn't think he could release it though and that's what I go by.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Even though he never tries to hold it or release it, I think that should be enough proof.

If Gohan can hold it in his base then for sure Kaioshin can spin it like nothing.

Well, that's certainly one point of view, but I think he'd have just as much trouble lifting it as Kibito.

[p123]

Kaioshin shouldn't have a problem holding the sword. Although he shouldn't be strong enough to pull it out of the mountain.

On Goku's comment about Dabura there are two ways you can take it...


Dabura >= SSJ Gohan > Perfect Cell >> SSJ Kid Gohan


which doesn't make sense since we know Kid > Teen


or Goku was talking about a suppression of Cell. Probably talking about the version of Cell who fought USSJ Vegeta/USSJ2 Trunks and presumably 50% Goku. Then Goku says he is stronger than he thought, which would be that level of cell. Which would look like this..



Pc Powered Up = SSJ Kid Gohan
SSJ Goku ( Cell Games )
Dabura ~ SSJ Teen Gohan
50% Goku = Perfect Cell Suppressed = Goku's first estimation on Dabura



We know SSJ Teen Gohan, the point of the fight IMO is that Kaioshin should be somewhere in SSJ range, although weaker, he shouldn't be by ridicolous measures, similar with the comparison of Kibito and Base Gohan. Base Gohan is stronger, but not by ridicolous measures.

[Senzu_Bean]

Dabura is stronger than Cell. Unless you want to put every character comparable to each other Goku is talking about the maximum of Cell's power. And Kaioshin cannot be weaker than the Super Saiyans, since everything shows he is stronger than them.

[p123]

Well then SSJ Gohan is stronger than Cell as well.

[Senzu_Bean]

Well then SSJ Gohan is stronger than Cell as well.

No, he isn't. Unless you think Super Saiyan Gohan is comparable to Super Saiyan 2 Gohan he surely isn't.

[p123]

I guess he has to be by your logic. If Dabura is stronger than Perfect Cell, then SSJ Gohan is right there with Dabura. Seems like you have a bit of a contradiction with your logic there...


SSJ Teen Gohan~Dabura> Perfect Cell > SSJ Kid Gohan > SSJ Teen Gohan


Hmmm... Seems a bit odd don't you think?

[Senzu_Bean]

No, if you think Gohan is a Super Saiyan 2 against Dabura, Buu, etc.

Why Am I repeating this same shit again?

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Aaaah, the never-ending Super Saiyan Gohan debate... Around and around we go!

[p123]

Gohan is drawn as a SSJ though, nothing in the art suggests he is SSJ2.


It's a pick your poison ...


You either think that Gohan is a SSJ2 which would go against several manga statements, and obviously the art as well.


Or you think that Goku is talking about a suppression of Cell, which some manga statements do back up, although it is a poorly worded statement from Cell.


Pick your poison boys..

[Senzu_Bean]

Don't try make the subject into pick the right or wrong side cause there is more to it.

[uzuni]

Let's just assume Toriyama forgot to include lightning in his aura, and he was in fact SSJ2 during the Dabra/Boo fights. His hair seems SSJ2.

[Kaboom]

I see nothing in the Goku's very loose statement, "about as strong as Cell" which points to any specific form or level of power.

Imperfect Cell when he beat Piccolo and absorbed 17 is "Cell."
Semiperfect Cell when he got pwned by Vegeta is "Cell."
Perfect Cell when he was holding back a lot of his power and testing his new form against Vegeta is "Cell."
Perfect Cell when he fought Super Saiyan Goku is "Cell."
Perfect Cell when he displayed his full power against Gohan is "Cell."
Semiperfect Cell when he reverted and self-destructed is "Cell."
Cell when he came back and was comparable to SSj2 Gohan is "Cell."

[Senzu_Bean]

Thus every character is comparable to each other cause every character can be comparable to a part of that character power.

Bulma is comparable to Goku; Yamcha is comparable to Freeza, Etc.

[dbgtFO]

Don't try make the subject into pick the right or wrong side cause there is more to it.

He said "pick your poison" meaning, that neither options is better, than the other one.

[Senzu_Bean]

Don't try make the subject into pick the right or wrong side cause there is more to it.

He said "pick your poison" meaning, that neither options is better, than the other one.

Like his post actually says such thing.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Let's just assume Toriyama forgot to include lightning in his aura, and he was in fact SSJ2 during the Dabra/Boo fights. His hair seems SSJ2.

That's completely out of the question. Goku and Vegeta have lightning in their auras in the same chapters that Gohan doesn't. As for the hair, Toriyama started drawing Gohan's hair exactly the same, in both Super Saiyan forms, back at the Tenkaichi-Budokai.

That's why this debate will never have a conclusion! All of the evidence has been debated to death, and there's always something to contradict the other side's argument.

[Senzu_Bean]

That is why is better go with an official statement than make pointless debates.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

There are legitimate errors in the Daizenshuu, so that doesn't exactly help.

[Kaboom]

Thus every character is comparable to each other cause every character can be comparable to a part of that character power.

Bulma is comparable to Goku; Yamcha is comparable to Freeza, Etc.

That's a disgustingly-strawman'd exaggeration and you know it. I was merely making a general point about the non-specificness of the comparison in question.