.

[jackjack]

All there is going for Gotenks' power (Pre RoSAT) being comparable to anyone is just small hints

I think it's safe to consider Super Saiyan Gotenks a SSJ3 level fighter, because there are more than enough hints (ranging from Goku being assured they're going to win if they do it right, all the way to Piccolo's comment that they only need to train to fight a much stronger version of Boo) to conclude Gotenks >/= fat Boo, so whatever the daizenshuu implies about Gotenks (</= Vegeta) falls apart if you ask me. Yet, you have people thinking they are nowhere near Goku even after having greatly improved inside the ROSAT by saying "Goku's OMG 50x stronger than fat Boo," or some other bigoted claims like that.

[dbgtFO]

There is a reason I wrote this you know..

(except Super Saiyan Gotenks thinking he could beat Fat Buu with noone contradicting that statement)

[Kaboom]

so whatever the daizenshuu implies about Gotenks (</= Vegeta) falls apart if you ask me.

Isn't this just as bad as anything else that's been accused of others on subjects like this? "My interpretation doesn't jive with the official word, so the official word must be wrong?" Shouldn't we at least TRY to make them work with each other?

Yet, you have people thinking they are nowhere near Goku even after having greatly improved inside the ROSAT by saying "Goku's OMG 50x stronger than fat Boo," or some other bigoted claims like that.

... What? Why is this word being used just because of this?

[cpd12589]

Does anyone know where you can find the original Japanese version online because I've been discussing this topic with someone on another forum and they don't believe that it says Kid Buu is the strongest Buu in the original Japanese version.

I have the original myself and even offered to send it to him but he just didn't want the file and still said that the original doesn't say that.

I mean that's completely unbiased it does say that in the original anime.

[p123]

Seeing how Kaioshin vs Buu Round 1 , would include the four other Kaioshins, and not to mention Buu absorbing two of them, Kaioshin surviving could have happened for any number of reasons. Gotenks surviving a fight with Buu should still be a major feat, it's unlikely for any others to survive in a strictly one on one fashion...

[Piccolo Daimao]

Seeing how Kaioshin vs Buu Round 1 , would include the four other Kaioshins, and not to mention Buu absorbing two of them, Kaioshin surviving could have happened for any number of reasons. Gotenks surviving a fight with Buu should still be a major feat, it's unlikely for any others to survive in a strictly one on one fashion...

Again, we didn't see the whole fight. Gotenks ran away from a dumb guy like Boo, that's not much to go on.

[Fox666]

Seeing how Kaioshin vs Buu Round 1 , would include the four other Kaioshins, and not to mention Buu absorbing two of them, Kaioshin surviving could have happened for any number of reasons. Gotenks surviving a fight with Buu should still be a major feat, it's unlikely for any others to survive in a strictly one on one fashion...

Isn't the same as Yajirobe surviving the attack of #19 and #20...?

[p123]

Isn't the same as Yajirobe surviving the attack of #19 and #20...?

One could say that. But I'm talking about Buu specifically...

Again, we didn't see the whole fight. Gotenks ran away from a dumb guy like Boo, that's not much to go on.

Exactly. We don't know. But Gotenks merely surviving fighting Buu one on one is a major feat that should not be overlooked.

[Nazi Cola]

How did Kaioshin survive both times?

[p123]

We don't know about the first time. Perhaps Buu just knocked Kaioshin out the first time, and the second time he was obviously saved by Majin Vegeta.

Perhaps the absorbtions distracted him or something, or Kaioshin was just out cold and Buu moved on to other people or Buu was distracted by others as well.


In the anime, I think South interferes with East vs Buu, or is it Dai Kaioshin? Well a situation like that is certainly plausible.


The point being, having no distractions, completely one on one with Buu, is going to get you killed majority of the time.

[jackjack]

"My interpretation doesn't jive with the official word, so the official word must be wrong?"

By "my interpretation," you mean the words from Goku and Piccolo, two of the most reliable characters?

Shouldn't we at least TRY to make them work with each other?

Sure, let's give it a shot.

Perhaps let's try to make future cyborgs < present cyborgs work, too, how is that?

[dbgtFO]

"My interpretation doesn't jive with the official word, so the official word must be wrong?"

By "my interpretation," you mean the words from Goku and Piccolo, two of the most reliable characters?

Although Goku states SSJ Gotenks(pre RoSAT) will become stronger than him, it's never actually confirmed, that he was stronger than SSJ 3 Goku let alone his equal. I agree that Goku is a very reliable character, but I can't just take a guess as fact, when noone actually confirmed it once the fusion turned out to be a success.
And Goku didn't sense SSJ Gotenks from Kaioshin Kai anyways*, so that should mean that he isn't SSJ 3 Goku tier, since only SSJ 3 tier characters are felt from the Kaioshin Kai(SSJ 3 Goku, Super Buu, fraction of Ultimate Gohan & Kid Buu).

*Well not so sure about this and that's why I wanted someone to translate for me. http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... 59#p430459

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Didn't Goku comment on not being able to sense the boy's Chi or something before he was told that they were in the rosat along with Super Boo? That would indicate that he felt their Chi at some point when they were Gotenks.

[dbgtFO]

Didn't Goku comment on not being able to sense the boy's Chi or something before he was told that they were in the rosat along with Super Boo? That would indicate that he felt their Chi at some point when they were Gotenks.

That's exactly what I want to be clarified in that translation thread.
I posted a link to it in my post above yours.
If Goku indeed was able to sense SSJ Gotenks then that automatically makes him SSJ 3 Goku tier.

[Kaboom]

Or it just means that Goku was paying attention.

[p123]

Yea one could say that SSJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku plausibly by Goku's statement, and that AT just did a poor job of writing it.


Or one could say Goku was straight up lieing, and that no one was shown to sense SSJ Gotenks on Kaioshin's planet which would mean SSJ3 Goku > SSJ Gotenks. That's not bad, but IMO it's twisting logic.


Piccolo doesn't seem concerned about SSJ Gotenks power. He only asks to see his speed, which IMO would suggest that Gotenks power is just fine .

Piccolo thinks that an all out SSJ3 Goku could beat Fat Buu. One would think that SSJ Gotenks is at least stronger than SSJ3 Goku not going all out...

[dbgtFO]

Or it just means that Goku was paying attention.

IMO only SSJ 3 tier power can be sensed from the lower realm to the Kaioshin Kai, since that's what Kaioshin and Kibito go out of their way to heavily imply.

Or one could say Goku was straight up lieing, and that no one was shown to sense SSJ Gotenks on Kaioshin's planet which would mean SSJ3 Goku > SSJ Gotenks. That's not bad, but IMO it's twisting logic.

Goku was making an educated guess. It wasn't confirmed that his guess was correct, so I don't consider it proof of anything other, than SSJ Gotenks' power should be obscenely large.

Piccolo doesn't seem concerned about SSJ Gotenks power. He only asks to see his speed, which IMO would suggest that Gotenks power is just fine .

True, but if he in fact was stronger than Goku, why didn't we get a statement of that being the case?
I personally just see Gotenks' power as being nothing more than hyped up to those extremes it is. Just like your pov on Dabra & Kaioshin being hyped up.

Piccolo thinks that an all out SSJ3 Goku could beat Fat Buu. One would think that SSJ Gotenks is at least stronger than SSJ3 Goku not going all out...

And again we lack the necessary statements to outright prove SSJ Gotenks was stronger, than Goku other than Goku's guess.
It would be a lot easier, if Piccolo directly stated Gotenks was the strongest, but he didn't.

[Senzu_Bean]

IMO only SSJ 3 tier power can be sensed from the lower realm to the Kaioshin Kai, since that's what Kaioshin and Kibito go out of their way to heavily imply.

Every power can be sensed from the Kaioshin Realm. Goku could have sensed Krillin's ki if he wanted to. After all Kaioshin sensed that everybody on Earth has been killed by Buu. Goku was trying to sense Gotenks' ki and he couldn't. Kaioshin on the contrary wasn't trying to sense anything and he still sensed Super Saiyan 3 Goku's power. Just like Goku sensed a change in Buu's ki even when no looking for him.

Only Super Saiyan 3 Goku, Evil Buu and Gohan powers actually reached the Kaioshin Realm.

[Rostir]

The discussion here is so in depth, with numerous people bringing in good points in a civilized manner.

Reading these types of threads is very enjoyable.

[Kaboom]

Yeah, there's a difference between simply observing a single or multiple Ki, and a Ki being so large that it actually grabs your attention. SSj3 Goku and Super Boo were the in-story examples of the latter.