Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others

[Saiga]

I bolded this part because this is just ridiculous. Gohan could've killed him from the very start of Chap. 498. If not then, then definitely when fighting in 497.

And Kid Buu fighting Goku later in Other World is also an in-universe fact. I'm not trying to be facetious, sorry if I'm coming across that way. This happened because that happened. And why did such things happen? Because that was what Toriyama wrote.

Boo can regenerate. Even if Gohan unloaded all his power from the start, it may not have even done the trick. And Gohan was so confident in his vastly superior strength that he didn't try to immediately end it right away. Both of those are in-universe reasons.

There is not one in-universe reason for Goku to be stronger than Evil Boo and yet still want to fuse with Vegeta.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

No way

The fight was still even. Boo's stamina just made it hard for Goku to get around. Super Saiyan 3 was more of a problem for Goku in that battle than Boo.

No, Goku himself said that whatever he did Buu came back as new. He was making no progress

The same could be said about Boo. His Kame-Hame-Ha did no damage to Goku, as well as his other attacks. He even tried to turn him into candy during the fight but wasn't fast enough. If Goku wasn't able to do much damage to Kid Boo and vice versa, that pretty much implies they were in the same realm of power. Kid Boo's stamina was just....better.

[SaiyanZ]

I bolded this part because this is just ridiculous. Gohan could've killed him from the very start of Chap. 498. If not then, then definitely when fighting in 497.

And Kid Buu fighting Goku later in Other World is also an in-universe fact. I'm not trying to be facetious, sorry if I'm coming across that way. This happened because that happened. And why did such things happen? Because that was what Toriyama wrote.

Boo can regenerate. Even if Gohan unloaded all his power from the start, it may not have even done the trick . And Gohan was so confident in his vastly superior strength that he didn't try to immediately end it right away. Both of those are in-universe reasons.

There is not one in-universe reason for Goku to be stronger than Evil Boo and yet still want to fuse with Vegeta.

Bolded part - What? So I'm guessing Vegito couldn't annihilate Gohan-Buu from the start in a no-barred fight (minus trying to rescue Z-Fighters)?

There is. Goku's fighting on Earth. According to "in-universe" facts, Kai ki and Majin ki don't mix as shown by those 3 reasons I gave earlier. There is no reason for South Supreme Kai to be some anomaly or exception. Kid Buu > Buff Buu > Super Buu according to those 3 panels, making Goku > Super Buu.

[Fox666]

Bolded part - What? So I'm guessing Vegito couldn't annihilate Gohan-Buu from the start in a no-barred fight (minus trying to rescue Z-Fighters)?

The difference beetween Evil Boo and Vegetto was much greater than it was against Gohan. Saiga made a reasonable explanation, Boo can regenerate to the point it is extremely hard to kill him, even more if someone like Gohan is playing with him.

There is. Goku's fighting on Earth. According to "in-universe" facts, Kai ki and Majin ki don't mix as shown by those 3 reasons I gave earlier. There is no reason for South Supreme Kai to be some anomaly or exception.

That's not a "fact", it is a fan theory you created.

Besides it goes directly against the statements of the manga which clearly estabilished that Boo increased his power after absorbing South Kaioshin. No matter how many hypothesis you have to explain why that's not actually the case.

[Saiga]

Bolded part - What? So I'm guessing Vegito couldn't annihilate Gohan-Buu from the start in a no-barred fight (minus trying to rescue Z-Fighters)?

Maybe he could? That's a completely different comparison.

There is. Goku's fighting on Earth. According to "in-universe" facts, Kai ki and Majin ki don't mix as shown by those 3 reasons I gave earlier. There is no reason for South Supreme Kai to be some anomaly or exception. Kid Buu > Buff Buu > Super Buu according to those 3 panels, making Goku > Super Buu.

It's never shown that "Kai" ki and Majin ki don't mix. It was Dai Kaioshin's heart that caused Boo to become the weaker, playful Fat Boo, as stated by Kibitoshin. So it is in fact Dai Kaioshin who is treated as the exception.

[SaiyanZ]

No way

The fight was still even. Boo's stamina just made it hard for Goku to get around. Super Saiyan 3 was more of a problem for Goku in that battle than Boo.

No, Goku himself said that whatever he did Buu came back as new. He was making no progress

The same could be said about Boo. His Kame-Hame-Ha did no damage to Goku, as well as his other attacks. He even tried to turn him into candy during the fight but wasn't fast enough. If Goku wasn't able to do much damage to Kid Boo and vice versa, that pretty much implies they were in the same realm of power. Kid Boo's stamina was just....better.

The fact that Buu was toying with him, plus Goku being unable to gather ki for a final blow after the fight means it was one-sided all along. If you don't agree with his wriggling around, the whole biting part and him smiling through out is clear enough.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Goku was biting on Boo, too. There were a few pages where he smiled and a few pages where he looked a bit pissed. You also have Goku smiling at Boo's imitation of his move as he blasts him away with it. Goku not being able to gather enough energy means his Super Saiyan 3 wasn't stable enough to reach full-power. His power was slowly diminishing through out his power-up. The Chi-drain just sucks for Goku. Kid Boo had no problems putting down Vegeta and Mr. Boo, so if he was actually stronger than Goku, he should've had no issues doing the same to him, either.

[Fox666]

Goku fought evenly with Pure Boo, and tought if he gathered Ki for a while he would be able to finish him. However his Super Saiyan 3 form has a limit of time he wasn't aware of.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

SaiyanZ, About Goku's Super Saiyan 3 limits: When he had his dead body on Earth, he couldn't use Super Saiyan 3 in the Living World because it was draining his time on Earth, so he shouldn't have such a problem in the AfterLife. When he was in his living body, there isn't any difference if he is using it in the Living World or in the AfterLife, the only problem was that his living body wasn't used to Super Saiyan 3, causing his ki to rapidly decrease. And by the way, the Kaioshin Realm isn't in AfterLife, nor in the Living World.

[FNF]

When are delusional people just going to admit that Evil Boo is stronger than Pure Boo? I have argued this topic too damn much for idiots to keep on bringing up the same old shit which has already been countered after I have had a month away from this.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

When are delusional people just going to admit that Evil Boo is stronger than Pure Boo? I have argued this topic too damn much for idiots to keep on bringing up the same old shit which has already been countered after I have had a month away from this.

I think they want it this way because Pure Boo is the final Boo, and because they want Goku as the strongest because he is the main character.

[VegettoEX]

Temporary ban issued.

I'd like to remind all of our members that such incredible rudeness toward your peers is not tolerated. This is a welcoming, accepting, and fun community to discuss the franchise. If you are not willing to act that way, we are not willing to have you be a part of the conversation.

I really hate to lock yet another strength-based discussion, but it seems to be heading that way. Can someone salvage this, or is it over? The current discussion does not seem to even be about Gotenks and "the others" anymore. Is there anything left to add? Something new to bring to the table?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The current discussion does not seem to even be about Gotenks and "the others" anymore. Is there anything left to add? Something new to bring to the table?

It still is for Gotenks, in a way. Since we are talking about Pure Boo & Evil Boo difference in power, the result concludes into Gotenks & Goku difference.

[Saiga]

I really hate to lock yet another strength-based discussion, but it seems to be heading that way. Can someone salvage this, or is it over? The current discussion does not seem to even be about Gotenks and "the others" anymore. Is there anything left to add? Something new to bring to the table?

Well, the discussion on Gotenks' bio seemed to only last for the first two pages.

So I guess there isn't anything worth adding. I was wondering if anyone had some theories as to the significance of the wording rather than "the Daizenshuu is just being weird again", but it seems that's the simplest explanation.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

How about moving the discussion in it's proper topic?

[Bussani]

If that were the case, he wouldn't have been so surprised when he said "What's going on?" when trying to muster up ki to finish Kid Buu. The fact that he said that, means that he didn't know what type of body he had had any effect on him sustaining a SSJ3. When talking with Piccolo, he clearly says "in this world where time exists". So right there, we know he's talking about location instead of alive/deceased status.

Well, that's why I said that they were different (but probably related) issues. It was a location issue, but one that only applied because he was dead.

I don't want to drag this discussion out further, but I am curious about something: do you think Goku's ki would have been used up even faster if he'd fought Kid Buu on Earth than it would have been if he'd fought him in the afterlife?

[SaiyanZ]

Too many replies, they're starting to overwhelm me lol. But in a nutshell, at least towards Saiga, I don't think I got your whole in-universe thing, but I'll save it for now. Don't want to spoil the whole reason of this topic

P.S. I'm not delusional, I have way more spine than that.

If that were the case, he wouldn't have been so surprised when he said "What's going on?" when trying to muster up ki to finish Kid Buu. The fact that he said that, means that he didn't know what type of body he had had any effect on him sustaining a SSJ3. When talking with Piccolo, he clearly says "in this world where time exists". So right there, we know he's talking about location instead of alive/deceased status.

Well, that's why I said that they were different (but probably related) issues. It was a location issue, but one that only applied because he was dead.

I don't want to drag this discussion out further, but I am curious about something: do you think Goku's ki would have been used up even faster if he'd fought Kid Buu on Earth than it would have been if he'd fought him in the afterlife?

I don't know about faster, but most likely a greater quantity would've been used.

[Fox666]

Probably when Goku says "in the afterlife time don't exist" it is just a way of saying "when you are dead your body will never be fatigued".

[OWmyDragonBallz]

When are delusional people just going to admit that Evil Boo is stronger than Pure Boo? I have argued this topic too damn much for idiots to keep on bringing up the same old shit which has already been countered after I have had a month away from this.

When are people going to admit that this is a children's series and realize that they over think things. It's stated that Boo's power was increasing when Good boo was torn out, this power is never stated to go down (why would it? There was nobody inside Boo anymore to give him power) and Kaioshin's story explains why it increased by saying the heart he gained that "lowered his power" has "changed back" to what it once was. Goku's reaction to this playful Pure boo is that he isn't strong enough to stop the blast from destroying earth. If he was, he could just instantly go ssj3 and deflect it.

Goku states that Gohan's power in the Super genki dama isn't enough and Vegeta said "we will gather ki from them right to their limits" as also shown with Kaioshin : I can't teleport to heal Goku, I am drained of my energy". The only thing powerful enough to truly stop him was the super genki dama or Vegetto. Goku never said that Gohan can beat Pure boo, he asks Vegeta if he wants them to come help in the fight which is very different then saying "bring either Gohan/or Gotenks, their power alone is more than enough to stop this Boo". He thinks both should help yet thinks Gohan alone can handle Evil boo?

After Boo is defeated we have Goku and Vegeta hesitating when they wonder who would stop that Boo if he were to return. Gohan and Gotenks are clearly not on their mind, Goku admits he has to train. That is because Goku > Gohan as stated by Vegeta when he said that only Goku is capable of fighting him and that he was #1. Before you tell me "#1 doesn't mean strongest" think again. Piccolo clearly states that Gohan was #1 in the Cell games and the Kaio asked if Son Goku's power is the "#1 or #2" power in his quadrant. Also Kaioshin says that Dabura was #1 in his realm while one of them in their realm is #1.

In conclusion, here is a backup quote from the Daizenshuu : Goku always seeks out the strongest, and waited for Boo's reincarnation above all else". Why wait for him if Gohan or Gotenks were far stronger? You honestly think a child could think of conspiracy theories. That quote clearly tells us why Gohan and Gotenks were not on their mind.

All this evidence and yet there is not one statement that Evil boo > Pure boo. Also Goku > Evil boo since Boo said : you guys are even tinier than a flea, you can't beat me now".

[Bussani]

When are people going to admit that this is a children's series and realize that they over think things.

[...]

You honestly think a child could think of conspiracy theories.

After reading your five paragraphs of explanations and interpretations, I think you're over-thinking things as much as anyone else is. Honestly, there's no difference between you and the people you're accusing--everyone just interprets things differently and comes to their own conclusions.