And I'm unsure how to interpret that. It seems pretty vague considering it doesn't mention who the "others" includes, and doesn't make clear what forms it was talking about either. How do you guys interpret this statement?The two entered the Room of Spirit and Time, and hurriedly trained as Gotenks. As a result, Gotenks leveled up so much that his strength surpassed Vegeta and the others.
Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
I recently learned that Gotenks' character bio in Daizenshuu 7 contains the following quote:
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Re: Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
That line suggests that Gotenks wasn't as strong as Vegeta (and Gohan or Goku?) yet.
Of course I never recommend to append for every summary in the Daizenshuu, so I really wouldn't take it too serious.
Of course I never recommend to append for every summary in the Daizenshuu, so I really wouldn't take it too serious.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
The "others" should be Goku & Gohan, since Piccolo, Kuririn, etc. are already outclassed. It's strange though that they name Vegeta instead of Goku & Gohan, the main protagonists. Either way, it's very clear that Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks is stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku, unless you follow the baseless logic that Pure Boo > Evil Boo.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Piccolo Daimao
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Re: Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
It basically means that, after Gotenks reached Super Saiyan 3, he surpassed even Gokuu, Gohan and Vegeta at Super Saiyan 2. Which presumably implies that he was weaker than them beforehand, which doesn't contradict anything.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.
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VegettoEX
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Re: Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
I guess I fail to see how there's any concern whatsoever about that little paragraph. Gotenks trained really hard, and he's all strong and stuff. OK... and? Where's the issue that I'm clearly blind to? It's not stating anything outlandish at all. What is it that's difficult to reconcile about it?
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Re: Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
I'd say it's talking about every one else. Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo and so on...
Saying it like that could just be another one of the Daizenshuu's funny ways of wording things. It is strange how they would say it that way, only mentioning Vegeta, but it probably meant Gotenks is the strongest now, and that before the rosat training he may have not surpassed Ssj3 Goku.
Saying it like that could just be another one of the Daizenshuu's funny ways of wording things. It is strange how they would say it that way, only mentioning Vegeta, but it probably meant Gotenks is the strongest now, and that before the rosat training he may have not surpassed Ssj3 Goku.
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Piccolo Daimao
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Re: Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
Because, alongside Gokuu, Vegeta's the most significant character? I don't really see how it's that strange.dprez wrote:It is strange how they would say it that way, only mentioning Vegeta
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.
Re: Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
They must've not put much thought into writing that part, as it's just a quick little, "Gotenks is now stronger than Vegeta and the others." Moving on...
I guess they left it semi-vague on purpose, instead of out right stating "Gotenks is now stronger than Ssj3 Goku", who was previously the strongest protagonist. We learn all we need to know from the story anyway, as it's clear Gotenks was the strongest warrior, until Gohan showed up of course.
I guess they left it semi-vague on purpose, instead of out right stating "Gotenks is now stronger than Ssj3 Goku", who was previously the strongest protagonist. We learn all we need to know from the story anyway, as it's clear Gotenks was the strongest warrior, until Gohan showed up of course.
Re: Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
I think what Saiga is trying to say is Gotenks, according to Daizenshuu 7, got stronger than those characters but he was already supposed to be not far from SSJ3 Goku pre-ROSAT anyway because he was supposed to be able to beat Fat Buu in SSJ, so why is it saying he has only now passed Vegeta and the others after ROSAT?
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Super Vegetto
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Re: Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
Well it could mean his base got stronger that he surpassed Vegeta and others ( not Goku ).
Goku SSJ3 is supressed against Fat boo. Even Piccolo stated that Goku didnt go all out, which could mean Goku SSJ3 > Base Gotenks ( Post ).
Goku SSJ3 is supressed against Fat boo. Even Piccolo stated that Goku didnt go all out, which could mean Goku SSJ3 > Base Gotenks ( Post ).
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
It seems to me that according to this, SSJ Gotenks pre-RoSaT wasn't stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Super Vegetto
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Re: Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
Can you explain what makes SSJ Gotenks pre-RoSaT stronger than SSJ2 Majin Vegeta ?DBZGTKOSDH wrote:It seems to me that according to this, SSJ Gotenks pre-RoSaT wasn't stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta.
Re: Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
Goku's assumption that a super saiyan fusion between the boys would make a warrior strong enough to kill Fat Boo.
I actually believe Ssj Gotenks pre-rosat was stronger than Ssj2 Majin Vegeta, much stronger.
I actually believe Ssj Gotenks pre-rosat was stronger than Ssj2 Majin Vegeta, much stronger.
Last edited by dprez on Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
I never said that. Others believe this though. From what I'm hearing, they believe he is supposed to be stronger than Innocent Boo because Goku believed so before they merge. Which doesn't work as a proof to me.Super Vegetto wrote:Can you explain what makes SSJ Gotenks pre-RoSaT stronger than SSJ2 Majin Vegeta ?
EDIT: Wait a minute, Goten & Trunks weren't very far in terms of power from Goku, Vegeta or Gohan (without counting SSJ2 & SSJ3). They are weaker, but not by much. Base Gotenks was said to be several times stronger than Base Goten/Trunks. So, if SSJ Vegeta x2 = SSJ2 Vegeta, and SSJ Gotenks/Trunks x(more than 2 times) = SSJ Gotenks, then, SSJ Gotenks > SSJ2 Vegeta.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
The guide "Son Goku Densetsu" says Gotenks is "several times" stronger than Trunks and Goten. It has been used as an argument that Gotenks is actually hundreds of times stronger than them because his picture is that of his regular form. Personally I don't take it that way, since Son Goku Densetsu uses miscellaneous images all around.
That "several times" stuff at least means that the metamorian fusion is not just the sum of the powers.
That "several times" stuff at least means that the metamorian fusion is not just the sum of the powers.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
The "several times" could even be 3 times. Since they used several times, it's more than 2 (IMO). But 100 times? That's more than several, isn't it?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
Well, since it used a picture of Trunks and Goten as Super Saiyans while Gotenks was in his regular form, the argument was that Gotenks would be several times multiplied by fifty.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
Didn't the Daizenshuu say that base Gotenks = base Goten/Trunks x(several times)?Fox666 wrote:Well, since it used a picture of Trunks and Goten as Super Saiyans while Gotenks was in his regular form, the argument was that Gotenks would be several times multiplied by fifty.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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VegettoEX
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Re: Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
I'm still not convinced you're all not looking for correlations and contradictions where none are intended. All it says is that "Gotenks is strong!", only with slightly more words, because if it literally just said something stupid like "Gotenks is strong!", you'd be complaining for different reasons.
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Re: Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others
It's probably reasonable to assume its a multiplier of 3 after their powerlevels are summed. If we break it down then it would be something like this:DBZGTKOSDH wrote:The "several times" could even be 3 times. Since they used several times, it's more than 2 (IMO). But 100 times? That's more than several, isn't it?
Goku(Base): 30
Goku(SSJ3): 30*150(Assuming SSJ3 is a multiplier of 150)= 4,500
Goten(Base): 15
Trunks(Base): 15
Gotenks(Pre-ROSAT Base): (15+15)*3 = 90
Gotenks(Pre-ROSAT SSJ): 90*50 = 4,500