The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

[Kid Buu]

Well a few people have been voicing their opinion on the arc so I guess I will too:

My main problem with this arc is the lack of tension. With Nappa & Vegeta, it was there were these dangerous threats coming to Earth and lived up to that hype when half the cast was massacred by the end of the battle. With Freeza, there was a high sense of danger around him. We saw how evil of a threat when the entire Namekian village sans Dende was killed. Then we get to the Androids annnnnnnnnnnnnd then what? They just want to kill Goku. Well even the threat there seems migrated by how the Androids are just purposely dragged out their quest to find him. I never really bought into the idea that they would attack innocent civilians either with peacemaker #16 around them too.

When Cell shows up it gets a lot better, he was a pro-active villain and it brought a lot of tension on how the heroes had to capture him. The problem is, that unlike Vegeta and Freeza, Cell actually accomplishes his main goal. So when's complete he feels deprived of any of his original character, and therefore the appeal is gone. Granted, most villains in DBZ are just evil for the sake of being evil, but with Cell it just sticks out like a sore thumb.

So from Imperfect Cell's debut to Perfect Cell's debut it's great, and the rest is just watchable. Just my two cents.

[penguintruth]

Well, the Cell/Artificial Human arc is my favorite arc in Dragon Ball for several reasons.

First of all, I love how it starts. Freeza returns and is completely undone by Trunks, who himself reveals that not only is Freeza not relevant at all anymore, but the next villains are way stronger than he is, too.

The time travel element. I usually pooh-pooh time travel unless it's used a certain way, and I enjoy how DB uses it. Trunks can't really change his own time period, because otherwise it would have already changed after giving Goku the medicine, at least slightly. You can't prevent something from having happened or else it would have already not happened. So it creates a split timeline which Trunks takes advantage of to see if the Artificial Humans have any weaknesses or if he can train hard enough to beat the ones in his timeline. It's complicated further by the appearance of the time-travelling Cell. But it never gets confusing, never taxes logic too much. It's easy enough for children to understand and yet is smarter than the usual time travel route.

Third, Piccolo becomes relevant again. Sure, it isn't for a huge stretch of time, but combining with Kami, confronting Cell, fighting No. 17, his standing up to Goku about his lack of transparency in planning at the Cell Games, it's all pretty solid material.

Fourth, there really is a sense of dread when Cell first shows up. He's this awful, terrifying monster that absorbs an entire town of people. The news reporters have no idea what they're walking into when they try to see what's happening. He's lurking around Gingertown after Gohan, Trunks, and Bulma find his time machine and his shell. Kami is shuddering at his palace and only agrees to fuse with Piccolo because of Cell. It's a horror show. Then we have him absorbing 17 and it's a big rush to stop him before he absorbs 18. Then after Cell is Perfect, it seems all is lost, but Cell decides to test his Perfect body and makes sport of it, ever confident. Again, Cell wants to spread terror throughout the world. I love that.

The Room of Spirit and Time. I just love that concept, of this bizarre, other worldly dimension trapped in a room, an infinite void. And you can train a year in there in what only passes a day outside. That's a really interesting element, and what's even better is that when you think about it, it's clearly born out of pure laziness. Characters enter a chamber and come out strong enough to fight the main villain in a short space! An endless white void meaning less work for the artist! And yet, it's still compelling to see, they took something that essentially meant doing less work and made it work for the plot. It's nothing less than a stroke of genius. I can see Toriyama, cross legged on the floor, hovering over a blank white page and thinking, "Hey, can I get away with just endless whiteness as a background?" It was the idea that launched a million Kubos.

And of course, there's the Cell Games themselves. A tournament with the fate of the world in the balance, the comic relief character that throws into sharp relief the abilities of the characters compared to everyone else in that world, Goku's excellent fight with Cell, and Gohan's shining moment in the narrative, passing of the torch (for a while, anyway).

Yeah, Cell is not as compelling as Freeza. Despite being much more powerful than Freeza, he doesn't exude the kind of threatening aura of an intergalactic tyrant, the kind of intergalactic threat Freeza was. We're told that Cell could destroy the Earth on a few occasions, but when you look at him, it just doesn't click as much as with Freeza, who we know for a fact has destroyed a planet before, probably several. Cell hasn't done so, for the very fact that he is being so sporting, allowing the Cell Games. He doesn't have a reputation that's built in as a character, just as a concept, as he's made of the cells of other characters. I get it.

But Cell is still pretty interesting. He has a taste for the fight the way that our main hero does. He starts off with the same basic desire that Goku does, to become stronger, to reach greater heights, and to test his strength. Whereas Freeza assumes from the very beginning that he's already unsurpassable, and the pleasure comes from seeing him proven wrong, with Cell, we see him crave more and more power, and watch him obtain it, and when he is defeated it's by the character who doesn't really desire power at all.

It also helps that Norio Wakamoto plays him in the animated version.

I like the Super Saiyan 2 design, with the sharper hair and the lightning. I like the brutal destruction of the Cell Juniors. The Kamehameha showdown. Mr. Satan's slow realization that he's in over his head. Vegeta wanting to avenge his son. Goku's decision to stay dead in a rare moment of clarity.

And, though it's perhaps become immensely cliche to mention it, this would have been a fine note to end the story of Dragon Ball on, with Gohan coming into his own and Goku continuing his adventures in the afterlife while the Earth is at peace. The next generation begins to take over. Vegeta realizes he cares about other people (at least one). Trunks restores peace in his own timeline. Tranquility sets in for a time.

That isn't to say I don't appreciate aspects of the Buu arc, mind you, but the Cell/Artificial Human arc is the peak of the DB experience in my opinion.

[SSJ3_Zack]

Son Gohan (and everyone else) was not out of character in the Cell saga. He fights only if he has to. Most of the time he was forced to fight. One thing I really liked about the Cell Saga was how Perfect from Cell was basically an evil parallel to Son Goku. So in an essence Gohan had to fight his father.

I also find the Cell Saga to be a fitting conclusion to DragonBall. Goku's story was finished being told the moment he attained the legendary Super Saiya-Jin form and defeated Freeza (The catalyst for all of the events in the franchise). The main villain Cell is a combination of all the previous villains and the Z-fighters (Ability and personality wise). From the start of "Z" Gohan was being groomed to become the next protagonist and in the Cell saga this comes to fruition. Goku becomes Gohan's mentor and #16's speech makes him understand why he has to fight. Gohan surpasses his father in strength and becomes similar to other Saiya-Jin (The bloodlust and rage). His actions causes his father to die. Cell returns and one last battle happens and finally Gohan avenges his father's death and takes his place as protector of the world.

Vegeta also gets a conclusion to his character arc. His selfish actions cost him his pride and the life of his son. By the end it's shown that he actually has a heart and learns the error of his ways. Not to mention his rivalry with Goku is over. The other Z-Fighters get a conclusion to their stories. On the lookout (And in the anime during the Kamehameha Battle) They all reminisce on how Goku helped them to become better people.

So no, I don't think the Cell saga is the worst saga in DragonBall. Far from it, in fact I find it to be one of the best written arcs. It has a lot of subtleness and there's a sense of finality that the arc gives off that I really enjoy.

[thatdbzguy]

Well, the Cell/Artificial Human arc is my favorite arc in Dragon Ball for several reasons.

First of all, I love how it starts. Freeza returns and is completely undone by Trunks, who himself reveals that not only is Freeza not relevant at all anymore, but the next villains are way stronger than he is, too.

The time travel element. I usually pooh-pooh time travel unless it's used a certain way, and I enjoy how DB uses it. Trunks can't really change his own time period, because otherwise it would have already changed after giving Goku the medicine, at least slightly. You can't prevent something from having happened or else it would have already not happened. So it creates a split timeline which Trunks takes advantage of to see if the Artificial Humans have any weaknesses or if he can train hard enough to beat the ones in his timeline. It's complicated further by the appearance of the time-travelling Cell. But it never gets confusing, never taxes logic too much. It's easy enough for children to understand and yet is smarter than the usual time travel route.

Third, Piccolo becomes relevant again. Sure, it isn't for a huge stretch of time, but combining with Kami, confronting Cell, fighting No. 17, his standing up to Goku about his lack of transparency in planning at the Cell Games, it's all pretty solid material.

Fourth, there really is a sense of dread when Cell first shows up. He's this awful, terrifying monster that absorbs an entire town of people. The news reporters have no idea what they're walking into when they try to see what's happening. He's lurking around Gingertown after Gohan, Trunks, and Bulma find his time machine and his shell. Kami is shuddering at his palace and only agrees to fuse with Piccolo because of Cell. It's a horror show. Then we have him absorbing 17 and it's a big rush to stop him before he absorbs 18. Then after Cell is Perfect, it seems all is lost, but Cell decides to test his Perfect body and makes sport of it, ever confident. Again, Cell wants to spread terror throughout the world. I love that.

The Room of Spirit and Time. I just love that concept, of this bizarre, other worldly dimension trapped in a room, an infinite void. And you can train a year in there in what only passes a day outside. That's a really interesting element, and what's even better is that when you think about it, it's clearly born out of pure laziness. Characters enter a chamber and come out strong enough to fight the main villain in a short space! An endless white void meaning less work for the artist! And yet, it's still compelling to see, they took something that essentially meant doing less work and made it work for the plot. It's nothing less than a stroke of genius. I can see Toriyama, cross legged on the floor, hovering over a blank white page and thinking, "Hey, can I get away with just endless whiteness as a background?" It was the idea that launched a million Kubos.

And of course, there's the Cell Games themselves. A tournament with the fate of the world in the balance, the comic relief character that throws into sharp relief the abilities of the characters compared to everyone else in that world, Goku's excellent fight with Cell, and Gohan's shining moment in the narrative, passing of the torch (for a while, anyway).

Yeah, Cell is not as compelling as Freeza. Despite being much more powerful than Freeza, he doesn't exude the kind of threatening aura of an intergalactic tyrant, the kind of intergalactic threat Freeza was. We're told that Cell could destroy the Earth on a few occasions, but when you look at him, it just doesn't click as much as with Freeza, who we know for a fact has destroyed a planet before, probably several. Cell hasn't done so, for the very fact that he is being so sporting, allowing the Cell Games. He doesn't have a reputation that's built in as a character, just as a concept, as he's made of the cells of other characters. I get it.

But Cell is still pretty interesting. He has a taste for the fight the way that our main hero does. He starts off with the same basic desire that Goku does, to become stronger, to reach greater heights, and to test his strength. Whereas Freeza assumes from the very beginning that he's already unsurpassable, and the pleasure comes from seeing him proven wrong, with Cell, we see him crave more and more power, and watch him obtain it, and when he is defeated it's by the character who doesn't really desire power at all.

It also helps that Norio Wakamoto plays him in the animated version.

I like the Super Saiyan 2 design, with the sharper hair and the lightning. I like the brutal destruction of the Cell Juniors. The Kamehameha showdown. Mr. Satan's slow realization that he's in over his head. Vegeta wanting to avenge his son. Goku's decision to stay dead in a rare moment of clarity.

And, though it's perhaps become immensely cliche to mention it, this would have been a fine note to end the story of Dragon Ball on, with Gohan coming into his own and Goku continuing his adventures in the afterlife while the Earth is at peace. The next generation begins to take over. Vegeta realizes he cares about other people (at least one). Trunks restores peace in his own timeline. Tranquility sets in for a time.

That isn't to say I don't appreciate aspects of the Buu arc, mind you, but the Cell/Artificial Human arc is the peak of the DB experience in my opinion.

Except there is absolutely no consequences to anything that happens in the Cell arc, nor do the villains ever inflict any sort of mental trauma in any of the heroes.

[Patrick]

Except there is absolutely no consequences to anything that happens in the Cell arc, nor do the villains ever inflict any sort of mental trauma in any of the heroes.

Can you think of any other DBZ arc where they inflict severe mental trauma on the characters? You could argue Freeza killing Krillin via explosion was pretty traumatic for Goku(since he thought Krillin was dead for good), but that trauma would have been gone as soon as Goku returns to Earth and realizes he's not dead.

[Gonstead]

Android 16. A fully synthesized life form who, under completely unknown circumstances and built for the sole purpose of killing Goku, cherishes life and nature around him. He even smiles, something most likely he was never programmed to do.

He even tried sacrificing himself to save the heroes, even Goku, who earlier in the day he reminded that he was intended to kill him. Even after this fails and he is blown into pieces, he still pulls through and gets to Gohan, who he knows will be the one to save them all. He's the one missing puzzle piece that finally gets through into Gohan's head that some people just cannot be reasoned with and that it will be okay to let it all go.

Cue Cell's big yellow foot stepping him into oblivion. We even see the brain chip, who's light fades into darkness, never to be reactivated again.

And even before being killed, he died with a smile on his face, most likely knowing that Gohan and the others will be capable of defending what he had come to love.

He was the final trigger for Gohan to snap. He, somebody who was built to kill his Father but in the end went against his programming and even helped the son of said man.

He cannot be revived. He is a machine, not a living organism. He will never end up at Yemma's domain to be judged for his actions. He will never ascend to Heaven to spend the rest of his days, something he most likely would have probably enjoyed. He will never be reincarnated into another person to experience life once again.

He will never exist again in any form whatsoever.

[goku the krump dancer]

Except there is absolutely no consequences to anything that happens in the Cell arc, nor do the villains ever inflict any sort of mental trauma in any of the heroes.

Have you not seen the History of Trunks? Trunks reacts to the androids the same way Kaioshin reacts to Bobidi's and his goons. The same way Vegeta reacts to the Ginyu force and Freeza himself to a point.

[B]

Except there is absolutely no consequences to anything that happens in the Cell arc, nor do the villains ever inflict any sort of mental trauma in any of the heroes.

What are the consequences of every other arc? I don't even get what you're looking for here. A bittersweet ending where no one gets exactly what they want? I'd say Goku staying dead is one, and as Penguintruth put it, Trunks ultimately having no way to repair his own History; only helping another one and stamping out Cell in his own. You're being vague about what a "consequence" is.

And I don't see how "mental trauma" is an automatic positive. Gohan and Vegeta become much more palatable as a characters by the end of it going into the Buu arc. I'd even argue the first appearance of Super Saiyan 2 is born out of emotional manipulation on Cell's part to Gohan. Then there's Cell killing Trunks, sparking the first actual piece of emotional resonance with Vegeta. Again, what are you asking for? A dark, brooding character that never recovers from what they've seen?

[Tanooki Kuribo]

Except there is absolutely no consequences to anything that happens in the Cell arc, nor do the villains ever inflict any sort of mental trauma in any of the heroes.

I think you're just grabbing at straws here. Penguintruth is just saying why he enjoys the Cell arc. Do you really believe consequences and mental trauma is what makes a story arc good? Is that what you're saying? It just seems when someone writes something positive you try to brush it aside with a confusing comment.

[goku the krump dancer]

^

Exactly.. One thing I noticed is that he eggs on a debate and when someone puts out a well thought out response to him with an opposing opinion he either responds very vague and confusingly or he waits until someone who feels similar to him a responds with their wall of text and he proceeds to be a cheerleader for them.

[coola]

I readed Cell Saga again, and i actually loved, how Goku admitted at the end, that he was wrong, and even decide to sacrifice himself (Small error, it was Kaio, who told him, that he is "magnet for all evil" not Bulma) it really could be final saga, all demons from past are beaten, and every character had moment of shine (Even Yamcha, when he helped take care of sick Goku).
Yes, i never had problems with Kuririn not turning #18 off, they didn`t do anything wrong, and even spared Z-Warriors, despite fact, it was them, who started fight. I even don`t really mind fact, that they didn`t asked Shenron for Dr.Gero localisiation, so they could finish him off, like Kuririn said, over half of cast, were/still are, blood-thirsty murderers, that get along together only because, there was stronger threat around corner.

[garnetjester]

I think OP is in the wrong place by expecting and wanting Dragon Ball to be dark and gritty. In fact, the Cell arc has a lot more emotional content than the Buu arc, where even the Earth is blown up and everyone is all "it's ok, we have the dragon balls". Goku's decision of staying dead is probably his most complex moment as a character. We even get to see Gohan being completely wrecked emotionally when Perfect Cell comes back and kills trunks and he's completely powerless to defeat him, and now even his father's death was in vain... But he manages to overcome those feelings, believe in his own power and defeat Cell. I mean, it's probably as emotional as Dragon Ball ever gets in its whole run.

I love how the other characters helped in defeating a main villain too. We don't get a lot of those instances in dragon ball.

[Olympian]

Yamcha suddenly becoming a cheater is OOC.

You know, this is something that stems from the fact Toriyama doesn't dwell on the details of these guys' everyday lives, and I think that's a good thing. It leaves a little mystery. The interesting thing about Yamcha is that he's the type of pretty boy character who, in any other story, would be the heroic lead and get the girl and blah blah blah(A bit of meta to this is Tohru Furuya's role as Saint Seiya's titular character). But this is Dragon Ball, where first appearances and expectations be damned, and Yamcha is actually a bit of a loser. But if you stop and think about the ordeal of getting over his fear of women, a guy as conventionally attractive as Yamcha, combined with Bulma's shrillness, might be tempted to make up for lost time. I don't think there's anything "sudden" about it, when you consider the gaps in time DB has. Bulma and Yamcha are dating on and off for around thirteen years.

Power levels argument aside, how would a guy like Yamcha, who was a famous bandit turned famous martial artist with a fanclub, turned famous baseball player who dated famous corporation Head, be a loser? Is there a definition of the word I am largely missing here?

The reason it can be considered OCC, I think, is fairly simple. A single arc behind, Yamucha is rather giggly at the idea of Bulma getting pregnant. Next, he`s a cheater. Toryama of course decided the moment he created Trunks, who the parents were, and there weren`t many choices around, but still, little to no progression to that point.

[Kid Buu]

Power levels argument aside, how would a guy like Yamcha, who was a famous bandit turned famous martial artist with a fanclub, turned famous baseball player who dated famous corporation Head, be a loser? Is there a definition of the word I am largely missing here?

The reason it can be considered OCC, I think, is fairly simple. A single arc behind, Yamucha is rather giggly at the idea of Bulma getting pregnant. Next, he`s a cheater. Toryama of course decided the moment he created Trunks, who the parents were, and there weren`t many choices around, but still, little to no progression to that point.

Because power levels mean all and Broly is the greatest thing to ever happen to DBZ.

[RandomGuy96]

He fails completely as a martial artist, is constantly used for comic relief relating to his failures, always loses, loses his girlfriend to a murderous maniac who killed him and his fiends and tried to blow up Earth, has to resort to competing with normal assholes, gets killed by a goddamned MOOK, and is mocked openly by Toriyama himself. That's why he gets classified as a loser.

[Kid Buu]

He's a loser by a DB-perspective, but not really one by real life-perspective. Similar to Adult Gohan who fails even with the biggest asspull but at least got the career he wanted and a famiy.

has to resort to competing with normal assholes

What does this even mean?

[Kamiccolo9]

has to resort to competing with normal assholes

What does this even mean?

He plays baseball with normal Earthlings.

[Kid Buu]

So does Gohan.

Adult Gohan really is the true successor of Yamcha.

[garnetjester]

Even as a Gohan fan, I have to admit that I lol'd when Yamucha was wearing an outfit almost exactly the same as the one he wore during the 10 days break during the Cell Games. What's up with Toriyama drawing so many similarities between the 2 of them?

ETA: I meant Yamucha in Battle of Gods. Even in recent stuff they are still so alike

[Kid Buu]