Herms watches the show (update: DB 29)

[Herms]

That's "itadakiranchi" instead of "itadakimasu", the phrase that you say before you eat (which I always liked as "I humbly accept!"). I mean, she's saying a food pun that early on in the franchise... I'd say it's probably supposed to be "lunch" for a name.

That's really not a food pun though. She just says it because she's a thief who takes stuff.

Anyway, I've been busy with work and stuff and whatnot and...OK OK, I admit it, I've been marathoning Corner Gas and kinda fell behind on DB, but I will continue this project. I'll probably have a big update this weekend.

[Herms]

...Alright...I swear I didn't mean to let this lag for so long. But now that I've finished the incredibly important things that were keeping me from getting around to continuing with this (OK, mostly it was my marathon of Corner Gas), I'll try to keep updating at a regular pace.

Episode 16
Training--The Stone Hunt

--Last episode recaps still aren’t a regular feature at this point. This episode starts off without one, but does flash back to Lunch shooting the gang full of lead at the end of the last episode.

--“Good” Lunch’s voice sounds really baby-ish. Much more than I really remember, or than I imagine when reading the manga. Anyway, she’s of course voiced by Mami Koyama, who also voices Arale, star of a certain other series (God I’m shameless).

--In this episode Kuririn reveals that he comes from “Oorin Temple”, which of course is a homage to the famous Shaolin Temple in China and the school of martial arts associated with it (shao=”few” in Chinese and oo=”many” in Japanese, while lin/rin=forest). Kuririn’s shaved head and the clothes he wears when he first shows up are taken straight from the classic image of Shaolin martial artist monks, as are the incense burns on his forehead. On that note…those are incense burns on his forehead (Toriyama notes this in the tankoubon 6 Q&A).

--Also: Kuririn says he spent 8 years training at the Oorin Temple before giving up and legging it over to Kame-sennin’s island. 8 years! And he’s only 13, as he’ll mention at the tournament (technically, he’s 13 at the TB and 12 going on 13 in this episode, going by the official timeline). That means he started training at the age of 5…in order to become popular with girls, as he mentioned when he first showed up. What an early bloomer.

--During the 100 meter sprinting scene, Kuririn brags that he’s an Olympic-level sprinter, one of a few references to specific real world things that turn up in early DB, before Toriyama seemed to really run with the idea that this was a completely different fictional world. Kuririn’s (claimed) best time for the 100 meter sprint is 10.1 seconds, and here he runs it in 10.4. I gotta admit…I’ve never, ever bothered to look up if those are really Olympic-level run times. At any rate, that’s about...*intense concentration*….about a 22 mph pace for 10 seconds. Which is pretty darn good.

--Before doing his sprint, in the anime Kame-sennin says that he hasn’t had enough exercise lately. So factor that into any strength debates, I guess. Speaking of which, during his big speech about surpassing human limits, the anime replaces the somewhat odd phrase “this wall called ‘human’” with the more straightforward “the human level”.

--When “Bad” Lunch chases Kuririn around, the anime adds in the detail that she throws her kitchen knife within inches of his crotch. Also, Kame-sennin measures Kuririn as running the 100 meters in just 8.8 seconds during the chase (and Lunch was right behind him…more fun for strength debates).

--The anime adds a running gag where Kame-sennin keeps trying to do dirty stuff with Lunch but Kuririn keeps bursting in at the last moment.

--Despite having earlier been afraid to take on two armed policemen, Kuririn takes out a sabertooth tiger in one blow when push comes to shove. I’ve always interpreted this as Kuririn not knowing his own strength and lacking confidence, but thinking about it I guess taking out a tiger doesn’t necessarily mean you’d do well against two armed men. Either way, right after that Kuririn hides in fear from a triceratops, so clearly triceratops > Kuririn > sabertooth tiger. Of course, he also runs from Lunch rather than knocking her out, despite her presumably not being as dangerous as a sabertooth tiger. OK…maybe Bad Lunch is worse than a sabertooth tiger. She certainly seemed to be more than a match for those two policemen…

--Unlike the manga, in the anime Kuririn actually brags about beating that tiger in one blow before throwing down with Goku. He still gets his ass kicked. This fight is pretty short in the manga (it’s mainly depicted as cartoony dust cloud with arms and legs sticking out), but it’s a bit longer in the anime. I can’t decide if Kuririn gets beaten easier than Yamcha did during his rematch with Goku, or if they’re about the same. Which I guess places the pecking order at roughly: Goku > triceratops > Bad Lunch > armed policemen > Yamcha/Kuririn (maybe) > sabertooth tiger > Olympic sprinters. QED.

--Backing up a bit to when Kuririn’s coxing Goku to hand over the turtle-mark stone by saying it might not be the real one. In the dub, when Goku protests that the stone has Master Roshi’s name on it, Kuririn says that lots of stuff around here has his name on it, because “he owns this jungle”. Obviously this is intended to be a ridiculous lie, but I really do love the idea that owning a jungle means you’d have your name written on random stuff inside it. Of course, Kame-sennin does have “Kame House” written on his house, so I guess it’s not too bizarre by DB standards.

--Speaking of Dr. Slump (we were, weren’t we?), Arale is visible on Kame-sennin’s TV for a brief instant during one of the filler scenes with him and Lunch back at the house. She replaces the aerobics instructors he usually watches.

--When everyone except Goku gets sick from eating Lunch’s improperly prepared blowfish meal, in the manga the narrator says that this puts them out of commission for 3 days, and it’s only then that training starts. This details gets left out of the anime, so I imagine most people watching just assume next episode just picks up on the next day.

[dbgtFO]

Looks like having to deal with all those strength debates and requests have finally got to you Herms.
Now you can't mention obscure trivia without turning it into a strength debate

[IAmTheMilkMan]

--When everyone except Goku gets sick from eating Lunch’s improperly prepared blowfish meal, in the manga the narrator says that this puts them out of commission for 3 days, and it’s only then that training starts. This details gets left out of the anime, so I imagine most people watching just assume next episode just picks up on the next day.

I think that the narrator mentions something about three days at the beginning of the next episode, though I could be wrong.

I really enjoy these posts, by the way, and I look forward to reading your analyses of the later episodes where they start laying the filler on thick. I'm of the belief that this series includes a lot more filler than people tend to say it does, particularly once the Red Ribbon Army saga kicks in. No one here seems to agree with me, though, or rather they're not vocal about it, so I'm curious as to what you will think.

[medama_oyaji]

Goku > triceratops > Bad Lunch > armed policemen > Yamcha/Kuririn (maybe) > sabertooth tiger > Olympic sprinters

You're doing some important work here, Herms.

[Rocketman]

The current world record for the 100-meter dash is Usain Bolt's 9.58 seconds. :eng101:

[Herms]

Episode 17
With Life at Stake! Milk Delivery

--To pick up from last episode, unlike in the manga the narrator here doesn’t mention Kame-sennin and co. being out of commission for three days due to Lunch’s puffer fish. Instead he makes it sound like this is the next day after the end of last episode (meaning the gang are ill for just one day). Does it matter? No, not really, but as a timeline nut I have to note these things.

--The anime has Good Lunch tuck Goku in and kiss him good night (awwww), after which she wonders to herself just why it is that her personality changes whenever she sneezes. She’s never shown having those kinds of thoughts in the manga…or having any other sort of internal monologue, for that matter. Of course, this means even she doesn’t know the reason for her weird little problem. I don’t think the manga ever quite rules out the possibility that she might know something about it, though she really doesn’t seem too well-informed (“Apparently my personality changes whenever I sneeze”).

--Bad Lunch’s response to finding Goku in bed with her is to shoot her bed full of holes. Good one.

--Kame-sennin has some interesting pictures on his walls in the anime. No, not those kind of pictures…apparently he’s a car buff. One picture is of a 1931 Alfa Romeo, and another is of a Phantom II.

--Before the training kicks off, Kame-sennin gives quite a speech on his martial arts philosophy. In his view, one doesn’t learn martial arts to win fights or impress chicks (Kuririn nods thoughtfully at this point), but rather to hone your own natural talents so that you can live life to the fullest. And, if a bad guy is threatening you or innocent people with “undeserved power”, you kick their ass. This last bit’s interesting in regards to discussions about just how good Goku is. A lot of fans (including me) have tried to push back against the generic do-gooder image of Goku that comes across in the old Funi dub and some parts of the anime…but it’s easy to go too far with this and make it sound like Goku has no concern for doing good. This philosophy here is from Kame-sennin, but I think it’s safe to say Kame-sennin has a big impact on Goku’s thinking. So stopping bad guys is a part of the point of learning martial arts, though not the main point. Most interesting for me is the idea that winning isn’t the point either. Obviously this is important for the tournament later on, but it also seems pretty relevant in light of BoG.

--In Japanese, the goat guy who runs the milk delivery service has a regular person voice. In the Funi dub, he has a cartoon goat voice, and has a heck of a time with the word “helicopter”. On that note…it seems milk delivery on this island is routinely done via helicopter. I guess it makes sense with that monk living up on top of the mountain only accessible by an endlessly long stone staircase, though there doesn’t really seem to be room for a helicopter to land up there.

--Goku starts off greeting the mountaintop monk guy with a friendly “heya!”, but Kame-sennin smacks him on the head and tells him to be more respectful. This is almost the same as Goku’s first meeting with Beerus in BoG, though there half the joke is that he’s a grown man who really should know better by now.

--During Kuririn’s explanation about the Tenkaichi Budokai, the anime adds in a few brief scenes demonstrating what the tournament is like. Among the contestants shown is a monster guy who’s basically just a darker version of Giran. What’s more, there’s a Bruce Lee-lookalike who beats somebody only to immediately be defeated by a fire-breathing kaiju-lookalike. This sequence is extremely similar to a scene from the “Strongest in the World” Tournament in Dr. Slump, where Arale’s friend Tsun Tsukutsun (who looks a bit like Bruce Lee) defeats someone only to be immediately taken down by a fire-breathing Godzilla-knockoff. Coincidence? The kaiju-knockoff in this episode doesn’t look too much like Godzilla, but the design still seems familiar. Can any kaiju expert tell me what, if any, classic kaiju they’re ripping off here?

--After the Tenkaichi Budokai explanation, there’s a fairly extended filler scene with Yamcha, Bulma, and co. back in West City. Yamcha’s taking on a whole dojo full of guys as training for the Tenkaichi Budokai, which he sure hopes Goku will enter too (this man must be psychic). Nobody gives him too much trouble, though he does use the Roga-FuFu-Ken to take down the requisite Big Guy Voiced by Daisuke Gori. Meanwhile, Bulma watches from outside and practically drools.

--The notable thing here that may slip by you: this is the very first mention (and first glimpse) of “West City” in the anime. I think. In the manga, the name actually doesn’t turn up until the end of the Muscle Tower storyline, shortly before Goku heads there himself to track Bulma down. However, Bulma had earlier mentioned being from “the city” and “the west”. What’s more, South City (site of the Tenakichi Budokai) makes its debut in this storyline, and in the manga that’s really what first sets up the idea of DB Earth having these various major cities named for cardinal directions. In the anime though, thanks to this filler scene West City beats it to the punch.

--Even Goku seems genuinely scared of the T-Rex that chases them while they deliver milk. Kame-sennin warns them that they have to run at full speed or else they’ll be devoured. Can T-Rexs run as fast as Olympic sprinters?

--The episode ends with Kame-sennin telling Goku and Kuririn that they’re early morning training is finished, and now they have to move on to their morning training. This is one of my favorite jokes in the whole series.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

What’s more, East City (site of the Tenakichi Budokai) makes its debut in this storyline, and in the manga that’s really what first sets up the idea of DB Earth having these various major cities named for cardinal directions.

Oro? But the tournament is held on Papaya Island, near South City?

[Herms]

What’s more, East City (site of the Tenakichi Budokai) makes its debut in this storyline, and in the manga that’s really what first sets up the idea of DB Earth having these various major cities named for cardinal directions.

Oro? But the tournament is held on Papaya Island, near South City?

Rats, that was a typo for "South City". Fixed now. Anyway, for the 21st tournament I just think it's said to be held in South City, and Papaya Island isn't mentioned until the 22nd tournament. Offhand I don't know if there's any more clarification on this in the series, but Daizenshuu 7 calls South City the capital of Papaya Island and the location of the temple where the Tenkaichi Budokai is held.

The current world record for the 100-meter dash is Usain Bolt's 9.58 seconds. :eng101:

Thanks, that's good to know.

[Rocketman]

Can T-Rexs run as fast as Olympic sprinters?

Ehhh, there's a lot of debate on that, mostly because it's all theoretical. 45 mph is the maximum anybody's ever suggested, but that's considerly overly generous.

[ABED]

Episode 17 and 18 of DB are two of my favorite out of all 3 series.

... but rather to hone your own natural talents so that you can live life to the fullest.

This is a point that I absolutely love and one that I think Goku took to heart.

[Gyt Kaliba]

The kaiju-knockoff in this episode doesn’t look too much like Godzilla, but the design still seems familiar. Can any kaiju expert tell me what, if any, classic kaiju they’re ripping off here?

I'm not an expert, but I've seen my fair share of kaiju movies - I'll see if I can't pop this DVD in later to give it a look and figure it out if possible. I thought I could kind of remember what the scene looked like in my head, but thinking on it more, I might be remembering the scene where Bulma is drooling over the romance movie on the TV and Goku changes the channel instead...so a refresher is probably needed.

[Kamiccolo9]

The kaiju-knockoff in this episode doesn’t look too much like Godzilla, but the design still seems familiar. Can any kaiju expert tell me what, if any, classic kaiju they’re ripping off here?

I'm not an expert, but I've seen my fair share of kaiju movies - I'll see if I can't pop this DVD in later to give it a look and figure it out if possible. I thought I could kind of remember what the scene looked like in my head, but thinking on it more, I might be remembering the scene where Bulma is drooling over the romance movie on the TV and Goku changes the channel instead...so a refresher is probably needed.

It's Baragon.

[Gyt Kaliba]

And Kamiccolo saves the day! Wasn't able to get to my DVD's in time, but yeah, that's definitly Baragon. For what it's worth, here's the part I was thinking of.

Spoiler:

That one I'm going to assume is a really generic Godzilla look-alike. So between that and the Baragon (isn't there another Baragon in Dr. Briefs' garden later, actually?), and the baby Gamera, were those the only kaiju cameos? For some reason I want to say I remember there being a Rodan somewhere...

Anyway, more on topic -

--Before the training kicks off, Kame-sennin gives quite a speech on his martial arts philosophy. In his view, one doesn’t learn martial arts to win fights or impress chicks (Kuririn nods thoughtfully at this point), but rather to hone your own natural talents so that you can live life to the fullest. And, if a bad guy is threatening you or innocent people with “undeserved power”, you kick their ass. This last bit’s interesting in regards to discussions about just how good Goku is. A lot of fans (including me) have tried to push back against the generic do-gooder image of Goku that comes across in the old Funi dub and some parts of the anime…but it’s easy to go too far with this and make it sound like Goku has no concern for doing good. This philosophy here is from Kame-sennin, but I think it’s safe to say Kame-sennin has a big impact on Goku’s thinking. So stopping bad guys is a part of the point of learning martial arts, though not the main point. Most interesting for me is the idea that winning isn’t the point either. Obviously this is important for the tournament later on, but it also seems pretty relevant in light of BoG.

I agree completely, and it's something that honestly both sides have pushed a little too hard on, just like with the 'is Goku a good or bad father' debate. Goku is a good guy, he doesn't like to see good people pushed around by bad guys. He's not exactly going to go around crusading for justice, fighting crime on the streets, or anything - but he'd probably try to stop someone from getting hurt if he saw there was a problem happening and he just happened to be there. I realize it's a movie, but right away the early part of movie 7 comes to mind for me, where he makes it a point to get all of the people in the restaurant they were eating at out of the way of the Androids assault, and then lures them away to...some iceberg, somewhere, or whatever. If Goku was completely uncaring, like Vegeta would have been at this point, he'd have just fought them right there in the city.

In the light of his "superhero" speeches in the old dub, I can understand why people don't want to view Goku as a hero per say, but in a way, he kinda is. He just also kinda isn't. It's complicated.

[dbgtFO]

I realize it's a movie, but right away the early part of movie 7 comes to mind for me, where he makes it a point to get all of the people in the restaurant they were eating at out of the way of the Androids assault, and then lures them away to...some iceberg, somewhere, or whatever. If Goku was completely uncaring, like Vegeta would have been at this point, he'd have just fought them right there in the city.

You don't even need to reference movie 7, because that part of the movie is pretty much how it went in the manga, when Dr. Gero started destroying that Island and Goku stepped in and took them to a desolate battlefield.

[SaiyaJedi]

--The notable thing here that may slip by you: this is the very first mention (and first glimpse) of “West City” in the anime. I think. In the manga, the name actually doesn’t turn up until the end of the Muscle Tower storyline, shortly before Goku heads there himself to track Bulma down. However, Bulma had earlier mentioned being from “the city” and “the west”. What’s more, South City (site of the Tenakichi Budokai) makes its debut in this storyline, and in the manga that’s really what first sets up the idea of DB Earth having these various major cities named for cardinal directions. In the anime though, thanks to this filler scene West City beats it to the punch.

Nice catch! This episode aired just a few months after Goku first visits West City in the manga (I believe the first mention is in chapter 67, which was published on 25 March that year).

[medama_oyaji]

Sorry if this was already answered and I forgot, but are you watching each episode once in Japanese and then once in English? Or are you just spot-checking the Eng dub?

[Retan]

Herms your hilarious as you point out things, keep it up!!!

[Herms]

Sorry if this was already answered and I forgot, but are you watching each episode once in Japanese and then once in English? Or are you just spot-checking the Eng dub?

I'm just spot-checking. I'll be lucky enough to get through the entire series just going episode by episode; watching each episode twice is off the table.

Episode 18
Kame-sennin’s Method of Inte~nse Training

--As another step on the road to a standardized last episode recap, this episode opens with a recap of Goku and Kuririn’s training regime from last episode…consisting entirely of new animation. It begins with a great shot of a rooster standing on Kame-sennin’s head.

--This episode’s Requisite Big Guy Voiced by Daisuke Gori (RBGVBDG): an enormous woodsman who trains for the Tenkaichi Budokai by cutting down trees. He’s part of a filler sequence showing various other people throughout the world who are all training for the tournament, which is a really neat idea. We also see a dojo full of guys punching in unison (is that effective training?) and a guy who manages 131 single-handed push-ups before collapsing (his trainer says he won’t even pass the preliminaries like that).

--Part of Kame-sennin’s morning training regime involves having Goku and Kuririn plow a huge section of field bare-handed. He tells them that tomorrow they’ll have to plow an even bigger area. The two are supposed to keep this up for eight months, so that means they’ll plow a total area over 240 times what we see them do this episode. I feel like they should definitely run out of ground to plow long before then, but I guess we don’t really know how big that island is. Or would they have to re-plow the same area multiple times over the course of eight months? I also wonder if anybody would plausibly need that much ground plowed.

--In the manga, after plowing the field the gang eats breakfast at some restaurant. In the anime, they instead first go back to Kame House to have a great-looking meal Lunch has prepared for them. But Lunch sneezes, pulls out her trusty gun and opens fire on them all, destroying the meal in the process. After this they go to the same restaurant from the manga. Goku sneezes in the middle of the meal, causing Kame-sennin and Kuririn to instinctively run and hide in the corner out of fear.

--As follow-up to the worldwide training scene from before, while Goku and co. take an afternoon nap we see the woodsman, the push-up guy, and the dojo people are likewise getting some shuteye.

--During the construction work scene, in the anime Kuririn has a flashback to his seniors at Oorin Temple bullying him. The memory causes him to swing his plow so hard it breaks. It helps build those seniors up a bit more so that it’s more satisfying when Kuririn gets his revenge, since in the manga we don’t see or hear about them at all until the tournament preliminaries.

--Goku and Kuririn want to be taught proper martial arts moves, not just this milk-delivery/fieldwork nonsense. Kame-sennin angrily tells them he’ll teach them that stuff once they can push this huge boulder. He pushes it a bit to demonstrate (this involves much straining on his part). Goku goes up to an equally big boulder and pushes it much further than Kame-sennin. Laughing, Kame-sennin says he meant this rock, and points to a ginourmous boulder…which he pointedly refrains from pushing himself as a demonstration. Flash forward seven months, and Goku and Kuririn both manage to push this boulder a little, astounding Kame-sennin (he had just been kidding the whole time). If you tried to analyze that in terms of character “feats” and whatnot you’d probably tie yourself in knots trying to work out exactly where Kame-sennin is in relation to Goku and Kuririn. Toriyama’s a lot looser with these things, especially at this point.

--When Goku and Kuririn go for their swim in the shark-infested lake, the anime has some long, long shots of full-frontal underage boy nudity. In the manga, there’s just one panel of the two of them from behind, and then they’re in the water, so we really don’t see much.

--In the same scene, when the (inexplicably freshwater) shark first turns up the soundtrack features a clear parody of the Jaws theme.

--Still in the shark scene, the anime adds in a bit where Goku and Kuririn escape to dry land, only to be chased back into the lake by the same T-Rex from last episode. So, despite being pretty fearless around tigers, giant sword-wielding bears, armed men and whatnot, Goku at this point is still afraid of sharks and T-Rexes. Oh, and I’m calling this thing a “T-Rex” despite it having a big horn.

[Adamant]

--Before doing his sprint, in the anime Kame-sennin says that he hasn’t had enough exercise lately. So factor that into any strength debates, I guess.

Adding to that, after Goku defeats Red Ribbon, Kame-Sennin says Goku has definitely surpassed him and shortly after learns that it's due to Karin's training... which Kame-Sennin himself passed in his youth. So he's definitely not at his prime at this point.