"Dragon Ball Super" Animation Staff Discussion

[Basaku]

More does not necessarily mean better, less does not necessarily mean better. Saying the movies are useless is like saying apples are useless because you now have grapes instead.

No. Super version of the story will be the apple tree, not grapes. The full vision. More doesn't automatically mean better but it very often does turn out to be the case.

[Birusu16]

There actually was.

Spoiler:

Both of those shots are pretty much directly taken from BoGs, especially the top one. That happens during their fight in space where Beerus elbows Goku in the back. The other one looks eerily similar to the shot where Beerus elbows Goku in the face during their fight in the cave right after Goku loses his SSJG form in BoGs.

We were talking about the storyboards from episode #2. Those ones (which were not posted here before) don't specify whether they belong in Super. Note how they're not even complete storyboards, just individual pictures, unlike the ones seen from #2. So you can't actually claim they're using that, even less exactly like that.

The poster you replied to was talking about the totality of Super, not just episode 2 and of course they belong in Super (they're from the Super Start Guide). At this point you're massively reaching because you don't want to admit you're wrong.

[Araki]

The poster you replied to was talking about the totality of Super, not just episode 2 and of course they belong in Super (they're from the Super Start Guide). At this point you're massively reaching because you don't want to admit you're wrong.

You're the one ignoring my point for the apparent lack of a comeback, so let's go again.

This is a Super storyboard, sequential shots complete with instructions and everything:

Spoiler:

Also, we know it's from episode 2.

Spoiler:

Now these are two individual pictures. See the difference, got it now? There's nothing saying that's a Super storyboard, they could be using the movie one as a reference only.

By your logic the series will actually reuse footage from the movie and DBZ, since the guide has pictures from them. We simply can't prove they're from an episode, schedule doesn't seem to allow that either, as the book probably had to be printed a good while before their fight for the tv version was getting done.

[Birusu16]

The poster you replied to was talking about the totality of Super, not just episode 2 and of course they belong in Super (they're from the Super Start Guide). At this point you're massively reaching because you don't want to admit you're wrong.

You're the one ignoring my point for the apparent lack of a comeback, so let's go again.

This is a Super storyboard, sequential shots complete with instructions and everything:

Spoiler:

Also, we know it's from episode 2.

Spoiler:

Now these are two individual pictures. See the obvious difference? There's nothing saying that's a Super storyboard, they could be using the movie one as a reference only.

By your logic the series will actually reuse footage from the movie and DBZ, since the guide has pictures from them.

No, my logic was that those two scenes merely looked identical to two scenes in the movie. You're the one twisting it into more than that.

And if they were using the movie scenes as references then the bottom pic wouldn't look different. Beerus does not punch Goku in the face in that scene (if it's truly the scene in the cave in BoGs), he elbows him.

Either way, at this point we don't know. If you don't like us speculating on why they might look the same or eerily similar then ignore our posts and get off our case. Don't come in here and start acting like a smart aleck thinking you know it all.

[Araki]

No, my logic was that those two scenes merely looked identical to two scenes in the movie. You're the one twisting it into more than that.

And if they were using the movie scenes as references then the bottom pic wouldn't look different. Beerus does not punch Goku in the face in that scene (if it's truly the scene in the cave in BoGs), he elbows him.

Oh, so they look identical, were "directly taken" from the movie but then...are also different? Way to backpedal and contradict yourself so quickly.

Don't come in here and start acting like a smart aleck thinking you know it all. You don't.

He says, after arrogantly calling me "wrong" and 'know it all", even though i just had said there was no proof of "copypasta" and you just agreed with me now, basically. After attacking me for no reason.
Now that sounds like you're confronting me for the sake of it.

[VegettoEX]

You're all completely out of line, and if you want to continue discussing anything anywhere within this community, you'll knock off the attitude immediately. Account strikes come next, which add up to temporary/permanent bans. These bans revoke access to the entirety of the website.

You don't want this. I don't want this. No-one wants this. Don't make this an issue.

[Birusu16]

No, my logic was that those two scenes merely looked identical to two scenes in the movie. You're the one twisting it into more than that.

And if they were using the movie scenes as references then the bottom pic wouldn't look different. Beerus does not punch Goku in the face in that scene (if it's truly the scene in the cave in BoGs), he elbows him.

Oh, so they look identical, were "directly taken" from the movie but then...are also different? Way to backpedal and contradict yourself so quickly.

Don't come in here and start acting like a smart aleck thinking you know it all. You don't.

He says, after arrogantly calling me "wrong" and 'know it all", even though i just had said there was no proof of "copypasta" and you just agreed with me, basically.
Now that sounds like you're confronting me for the sake of it.

1. Perhaps you should read as I said the top pic looks the same while the bottom one looks eerily similar. I never said both were identical. And those shots were directly taken from BoGs. Whether they're used in Super or not is unknown. Once again, twisting words.

2. Just like you've been arrogant and condescending to both of us from the jump without much of a reason for it despite the fact that neither of us took it as a full on fact, but no, you felt the need to jump in and try and prove once again how much of a know it all you claim to be. And no, I don't in anyway I agree with you as there's more evidence that points to those shots being for Super than not IMO. Hard concrete evidence? Perhaps not.

Either way, I'm dropping this conversation before I get into trouble. Not going to get a ban over something as trivial as this arguing with someone like you.

Edit: Sorry Vegetto. Didn't see you post before I submitted my post. Like I said above, I've no desire to continue this and will gladly drop it.

[Araki]

1. Perhaps you should read as I said the top pic looks the same while the bottom one looks eerily similar. I never said both were identical. And those shots were directly taken from BoGs. Whether they're used in Super or not is unknown. Once again, twisting words.

2. Just like you've been arrogant and condescending to both of us from the jump without much of a reason for it despite the fact that neither of us took it as a full on fact, but no, you felt the need to jump in and try and prove once again how much of a know it all you claim to be. And no, I don't in anyway I agree with you as there's more evidence that points to those shots being for Super than not IMO. Hard concrete evidence? Perhaps not.

Either way, I'm dropping this conversation before I get into trouble. Not going to get a ban over something as trivial as this arguing with someone like you.

Edit: Sorry Vegetto. Didn't see you post before I submitted my post. Like I said above, I've no desire to continue this and will gladly drop it.

They're either "directly taken" or "just similar". That's still contradictory, no?
And now you admited there's no concrete evidence either way, when if you pay attention, i've just been saying there was no proof of your claims, that we don't know if they'll use that (as you just agreed once again now), contrary to your 'what i say is the fact" attitude when you jumped in to attack me, and that you finally dropped.

But it's not cool how you continue to be insulting, then pretend you didn't see his post and willl "gladly drop it", but doesn't edit one word from your offensive comments. I won't fall for that, and i apologize to VegettoEX if i caused any trouble earlier, sorry.

[VegettoEX]

You can't just acknowledge the warning, and then continue the same conversation while apologizing for continuing the conversation you've acknowledge you've been asked to stop.

Account strikes are being issued. This is not how to conduct yourself within this community.

[JulieYBM]

For the record, I wasn't being a smart-aleck. The word 'storyboard' was thrown around, of course I'm going to think of storyboards and not those photographs of genga (key animation drawings).

Guys. Guys. We have a Production Guide on the website. Read it. Heath busted his balls putting it together. It'll teach you a think or two about these things and what is what. So will these two blog posts.

[TripleRach]

Those sketches of Beerus and Gokuu fighting are part of the character models section of the Super Start Guide. This blurb in particular is about auras and action effects as part of the animation process. It's simply labeled "Dragon Ball" and isn't attributed to Super at all. It's just general behind-the-scenes insight for DB franchise animation.

Similar blurbs in the character section are about showing the differences between SSJ1, 2, and 3 (which I'm pretty sure has been posted here), and some height charts.

[bleed0range]

The sketches everyone keeps talking about, of Beerus and Goku, look to me like genga sheets. That's not a storyboard but literally a drawing done by key animators used as reference for the douga... Which is the drawing used in actual animation (what cels are made from). You can see this because they have frames of animation labeled A1 and C4 with circles over them indicating they are important key frames.

From these sheets the actual clean drawing will be made with the various layers for animation. This is basically a step of animation that's further along then storyboards and it could in fact be from a Super episode.

[JulieYBM]

While douga (in-between animation drawings) do connect the genga (original picture/key animation drawings) the latter are still very important in establishing the animation. The genga are what our eyes see most prominently when in motion and the key animator decides the timing and overall shape of the finished cut. It's also possible for the key animator to merely draw enough key animation drawings that a movement requires no in-between animation drawings, although I don't believe anything Dragon Ball related has been in such a position for a long time.

[bleed0range]

While douga (in-between animation drawings) do connect the genga (original picture/key animation drawings) the latter are still very important in establishing the animation. The genga are what our eyes see most prominently when in motion and the key animator decides the timing and overall shape of the finished cut. It's also possible for the key animator to merely draw enough key animation drawings that a movement requires no in-between animation drawings, although I don't believe anything Dragon Ball related has been in such a position for a long time.

Douga can include both in between shots and not in between. The genga is the key drawing before douga is made... The douga is the drawing the actual animation is from. For example, the genga here shows multiple layers but the douga would be each individual layer used for animation and it would be cleaner then those drawings. Usually yellow correction sheets are placed over the genga to clean up the drawings for the douga. When you buy a cel, whether it is a key frame or not, it comes with a douga.

[FortuneSSJ]

Episode 4 with that Pilaf gang title, will probably be the weakest so far.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Maybe if you don't like Pilaf. I loved their antics in Battle of Gods and I'm curious to see how things change on the boat. I mean, is Bluma actually transporting like a whole freaking castle in a bingo prize room on the ship? xD

[Chuquita]

I do enjoy Shigeru Chiba's voice acting; I think I'll probably somewhat enjoy the Pilaf Gang episode. Will wait and see.

This Saturday's Vegeta episode is the one I'm most excited about right now.

[Doctor.]

I do enjoy Shigeru Chiba's voice acting; I think I'll probably somewhat enjoy the Pilaf Gang episode. Will wait and see.

This Saturday's Vegeta episode is the one I'm most excited about right now.

Thought it'd be the episode where you get to see SSG Goku at last

[Chuquita]

I do enjoy Shigeru Chiba's voice acting; I think I'll probably somewhat enjoy the Pilaf Gang episode. Will wait and see.

This Saturday's Vegeta episode is the one I'm most excited about right now.

Thought it'd be the episode where you get to see SSG Goku at last

Well, of the episodes that I know the titles of and summaries about so far it's the Vegeta episode. I should've been more specific. ^^;
Overall though, I am most excited to see the temporary return of ssjg Gokû. Because how often do we get to backtrack like that for old power-ups? We don't. It'd be like wishing for kaio-ken knowing there's no way I'll see it again (I also really like and miss kaio-ken.)

Oh I'm gonna have a field day when ssjg Gokû shows up. I'm doing screenshot sets for each Dragon Ball Super ep on tumblr; that week's getting a regular screenshot set and then a 2nd screenshot set just for him.
( ´ ▽ ` ).｡ｏ♡

Or if not a screenshot set, and Gokû makes some cute reaction moments; I'll do animated gifs instead.

[Hujio]

Episode 4 with that Pilaf gang title, will probably be the weakest so far.

Or the best thing ever! I don't care what anyone says, I will love the hell out of this episode. If I could bottle Shigeru Chiba's voice...

While douga (in-between animation drawings) do connect the genga (original picture/key animation drawings) the latter are still very important in establishing the animation. The genga are what our eyes see most prominently when in motion and the key animator decides the timing and overall shape of the finished cut. It's also possible for the key animator to merely draw enough key animation drawings that a movement requires no in-between animation drawings, although I don't believe anything Dragon Ball related has been in such a position for a long time.

Douga can include both in between shots and not in between. The genga is the key drawing before douga is made... The douga is the drawing the actual animation is from. For example, the genga here shows multiple layers but the douga would be each individual layer used for animation and it would be cleaner then those drawings. Usually yellow correction sheets are placed over the genga to clean up the drawings for the douga. When you buy a cel, whether it is a key frame or not, it comes with a douga.

"Technically" speaking, bleed0range is right in this case. The in-between animators (dōga) would trace the genga and then create all of the in-between frames themselves based on those traced cels. The key animators don't actually create any cels themselves, that's the job of the in-between animators. However, as JulieYBM said, it is the key animators that establish all of the main elements of motion in a scene. The in-between animator's job is to literally trace and match the key artwork, while the key animator sets up all the timing and key points within the motion. So while the final animation is created by the in-between animators, they have very little influence on the final result. Take episodes supervised by Yukio Ebisawa (Studio Live) as an example (see screen shot below). Yukio Ebisawa provided the majority of the key artwork and timing for those episodes, yet the the fluidity of the motion in his episodes was never terrible, but the artwork sure was. The in-between animators had to just copy his artwork and use the timing he provided them. They had no real influence on how things turned out. That all falls back on the key animators and the animation supervisor.