So has GT been forgiven yet?

[Kanassa]

GT has left a bad mark on the series for a long time. I think it will be like the Star Wars prequels where it has it's fans, but most people still dislike it. I do think Super is doing a better job than GT has done. The new characters are better in my opinion and I think the story is more interesting. The best saga in GT was the Shadow Dragon arc and even that could have been better in my opinion.

I really hope that Super tries to do the Shadow Dragon Arc in some way, the mere concept of the Dragonballs themselves being the villains is way to good!

[Baggie_Saiyan]

GT has left a bad mark on the series for a long time. I think it will be like the Star Wars prequels where it has it's fans, but most people still dislike it. I do think Super is doing a better job than GT has done. The new characters are better in my opinion and I think the story is more interesting. The best saga in GT was the Shadow Dragon arc and even that could have been better in my opinion.

I really hope that Super tries to do the Shadow Dragon Arc in some way, the mere concept of the Dragonballs themselves being the villains is way to good!

Indeed. GT has been well known to have some good ideas but lacked the execution. Now with Super they have Toriyama on board, they gave him the idea of Trunks arc and he delivered, and I think Toriyama's work is better when he's nudged into it, BoG movie now this Trunks arc. So yeah wouldn't mind if they tried something similar down the road.

[sintzu]

GT has left a bad mark on the series for a long time. I think it will be like the Star Wars prequels where it has it's fans, but most people still dislike it. I do think Super is doing a better job than GT has done. The new characters are better in my opinion and I think the story is more interesting. The best saga in GT was the Shadow Dragon arc and even that could have been better in my opinion.

I really hope that Super tries to do the Shadow Dragon Arc in some way, the mere concept of the Dragonballs themselves being the villains is way to good!

Indeed. GT has been well known to have some good ideas but lacked the execution. Now with Super they have Toriyama on board, they gave him the idea of Trunks arc and he delivered, and I think Toriyama's work is better when he's nudged into it, BoG movie now this Trunks arc. So yeah wouldn't mind if they tried something similar down the road.

I think Toriyama doing a shadow dragon type story would be better than GT's but it might end up like the tournament where instead of letting everyone fight, it would be limited to Goku and Vegeta.

[Kanassa]

GT has left a bad mark on the series for a long time. I think it will be like the Star Wars prequels where it has it's fans, but most people still dislike it. I do think Super is doing a better job than GT has done. The new characters are better in my opinion and I think the story is more interesting. The best saga in GT was the Shadow Dragon arc and even that could have been better in my opinion.

I really hope that Super tries to do the Shadow Dragon Arc in some way, the mere concept of the Dragonballs themselves being the villains is way to good!

Indeed. GT has been well known to have some good ideas but lacked the execution. Now with Super they have Toriyama on board, they gave him the idea of Trunks arc and he delivered, and I think Toriyama's work is better when he's nudged into it, BoG movie now this Trunks arc. So yeah wouldn't mind if they tried something similar down the road.

I think that's why I always hated GT so much, it's one thing to be dissappointing, but it's an entirley worst beast to be dissapoiting while clearly having so many long glimpses of great potential.

Going back to the roots of Dragonball, but with the twist of a space adventure? Hell yeah!
The actions of the Saiyan race comming back to bite them in the ass in the form of a powerful villain? Brilliant!
New Super transformation implimenting the original Great Ape transformation? Very interesting.
The titular items that the heroes constantly rely on to avoid concequences beccoming the enemy? That is genius!

Also, on the death scenes for Piccolo and Krillin in GT? As a fan of both characters, I almost felt insulted by just how badly those were handled.

[Hellspawn28]

Piccolo's death in GT was better than his death in Super, but too bad there was no build up to his death in GT. Still having Piccolo to be use as a plot device in Hell is still really stupid in my opinion. Why didn't Goku just go SSj4 and teleported out or ask Kaioshin to get him out. I still wish Piccolo would have been on the Grand Kai planet with the other Other World Fighters in GT. We could have gotten the Piccolo and Pikkon team up that fans wanted for a while.

[sintzu]

Going back to the roots of Dragonball, but with the twist of a space adventure? Hell yeah!

The actions of the Saiyan race comming back to bite them in the ass in the form of a powerful villain? Brilliant!

New Super transformation implimenting the original Great Ape transformation? Very interesting.

The titular items that the heroes constantly rely on to avoid concequences beccoming the enemy? That is genius!

Also, on the death scenes for Piccolo and Krillin in GT? As a fan of both characters, I almost felt insulted by just how badly those were handled.

Probably the worst thing ever produced for this franchise.

It was flawed but overall I think it was handled pretty good, especially compared to what came before and after it.

I wish they explained the magic pants and I think Goku should've stayed as an adult after reaching it but the design itself was great and the way it's reached was unique.

I still can't believe they messed that up.

Krillin shouldn't have died and although I think Piccolo sacrificing himself for the planet was a good idea, I didn't like how it came out of nowhere and how Piccolo was treated up to that point.

[ryou766]

There's one thing I don't understand, they mentioned they turned Goku into a child because as an adult he was too strong. Then why make SS4 into an adult form? SS4 wasn't even that much of a problem compared to his enemies.

[SSJ Human]

Krillin shouldn't have died and although I think Piccolo sacrificing himself for the planet was a good idea, I didn't like how it came out of nowhere and how Piccolo was treated up to that point.

His death made no sense and I could say the same for Piccolo, though this would probably come from my view that when you kill a character off you should give them the appropriate focus that would make that death matter. They did this expecting us to care since they were major in the past two series but someone watching just GT wouldn't have cared. I didn't feel an attachment to anyone in the series apart from Goku.

[Cetra]

...someone watching just GT wouldn't have cared...

Someone watching a sequel to something or playing it cannot really be expected to understand or feel exactly like someone who "knows" the series. And you should never be forced to write every single moment like everyone and their grandmother does not know about it.

[Kanassa]

Probably the worst thing ever produced for this franchise.

It was flawed but overall I think it was handled pretty good, especially compared to what came before and after it.

I wish they explained the magic pants and I think Goku should've stayed as an adult after reaching it but the design itself was great and the way it's reached was unique.

I still can't believe they messed that up.

Krillin shouldn't have died and although I think Piccolo sacrificing himself for the planet was a good idea, I didn't like how it came out of nowhere and how Piccolo was treated up to that point.

I think it would of been so much better if they didn't include Goku in the way they did, like instead of having Goku become a Kid and go with Trunks and Pan into space. Goku should have stayed on earth, while Trunks, Pan, Bra and Goten went into space as the lead characters.

Meh, I enjoyed Baby, but there was jsut a point where he got more annoying then menacing.

Agreed.

It had a good start, but they kind of ruin the idea when most of the Shadow Dragons are mostly gag-esc villains until we got to the final few (Though Omega Shenron's design was beyond badass). Also, I'd like to highlight the fact that the only 'good' dragon, and the one that ends of saving Goku's life, is the four star one. THat was pretty neat.

I'm okay with Krillin dying, and even Piccolo, it's just the fact that the two had next to nothing to do with what was happening and had barley even appeared before being killed off. Personally, I think that in any story, when you're killing off a main character in the middle or towards the end of the story, they should have been prevelent leading up to their demise.

[TheGreatness25]

I think that Kuririn's and Piccolo's death was no worse than the Earth just blowing up in the Boo arc, which killed everyone... including Gohan, the kids, etc. Their deaths really meant nothing at that point. "Lookie here, we've got Dragon Balls! Don't you worry about them!" I give GT for at least eliciting some emotion from the characters over death. Goku's entire family and friends were killed and he was like, "Well, derp, we'll wish them back. Tra-la-la!"

[SSJ Human]

...someone watching just GT wouldn't have cared...

Someone watching a sequel to something or playing it cannot really be expected to understand or feel exactly like someone who "knows" the series. And you should never be forced to write every single moment like everyone and their grandmother does not know about it.

Which is why if anyone had to die it should have Pan, Goku or the villain of the arc since those are the only three that mattered most of the time. You don't just give somebody two episodes of focus and then kill them off and expect me to care? Piccolo was in that for what? eight episodes? He might as well have not even showed up if they were going to have him die for no reason like Krillin.

[Cetra]

...someone watching just GT wouldn't have cared...

Someone watching a sequel to something or playing it cannot really be expected to understand or feel exactly like someone who "knows" the series. And you should never be forced to write every single moment like everyone and their grandmother does not know about it.

Which is why if anyone had to die it should have Pan, Goku or the villain of the arc since those are the only three that mattered most of the time. You don't just give somebody two episodes of focus and then kill them off and expect me to care? Piccolo was in that for what? eight episodes? He might as well have not even showed up if they were going to have him die for no reason like Krillin.

But that is exactly the thing: He was there all the time in Dragon ball before. And really the only argument against it is "but people who only know GT" and as said, you should never right for "just people who only know one part of the series". I would say the build up for Piccolo was not necessary because the entire show did show him often enough. And about that I indeed do care. The "only GT" viewers or what is equivalent in other shows or games (or "only Z viewers", whatever, pick what you want) should not be reason enough to limit yoursef. That is also why people who write a story never should be too neurotical about consistency because that also can backfire in so extremely limiting your writing that you end up writing a show or game that you have no fun with anymore (consistency is good in many aspects of course but there is a reason why not everyone cares and just writes and it is not always just "forgetting").

[sintzu]

It had a good start, but they kind of ruin the idea when most of the Shadow Dragons are mostly gag-esc villains until we got to the final few (Though Omega Shenron's design was beyond badass).

They also had a great opportunity to have a tag team battle between Goku & Vegeta against Nova & Ice Shenron

If there's one thing they got right in that arc it was Omega's design, it just screams final villain.

I think if Toei waited a year or more before starting with GT it would've turned out better cause they could've talked to more writers and maybe even bring Toriyama on board as a supervisor.

[TheGreatness25]

I feel like the idea of Dragon Ball GT is great. Like if you're playing a video game of it or if you read summaries, it's actually a very good show. Then you watch it and it just never really worked. If someone never saw GT (and didn't know anyone who hated it), upon reading the summaries, that person would probably get really excited to see it.

[Esfír Dedragón]

In hindsight, concepts such as the Black Star Dragon Balls, Goku being little, Super Saiyan 4 (the appearance that we got), and the Super 17 arc were the biggest flaws of the show.

There were some minor things, too.

Example: I still can't get over the fact that Vegeta cut his hair.

One more thing... Ever since Toriyama introduced time-travel, I've always judged concepts after the Cell arc with a general question: How would it have been different in the alternate timeline(s)?

I'm okay with the idea of Baby coming to Earth and creating it in his own image for the only reason that Goku and friends were travelling in space and were being followed when Baby realized that they were Saiyans. Otherwise, Baby would have never had any reason to go to Earth .

[Hellspawn28]

I don't know why Goku is still a kid after Bebi. I still think they should have made him a adult again for the Super 17 saga and Shadow Dragon arc.

[SSJ Human]

Someone watching a sequel to something or playing it cannot really be expected to understand or feel exactly like someone who "knows" the series. And you should never be forced to write every single moment like everyone and their grandmother does not know about it.

Which is why if anyone had to die it should have Pan, Goku or the villain of the arc since those are the only three that mattered most of the time. You don't just give somebody two episodes of focus and then kill them off and expect me to care? Piccolo was in that for what? eight episodes? He might as well have not even showed up if they were going to have him die for no reason like Krillin.

But that is exactly the thing: He was there all the time in Dragon ball before. And really the only argument against it is "but people who only know GT" and as said, you should never right for "just people who only know one part of the series". I would say the build up for Piccolo was not necessary because the entire show did show him often enough. And about that I indeed do care. The "only GT" viewers or what is equivalent in other shows or games (or "only Z viewers", whatever, pick what you want) should not be reason enough to limit yoursef. That is also why people who write a story never should be too neurotical about consistency because that also can backfire in so extremely limiting your writing that you end up writing a show or game that you have no fun with anymore (consistency is good in many aspects of course but there is a reason why not everyone cares and just writes and it is not always just "forgetting").

It was still stupid anyway. You don't kill of someone that doesn't get any focus whatsoever in the entire show beforehand as was the case with Piccolo and Krillin.

[DBZAOTA482]

No, GT is still the blacksheep of the original series and Super proves Toei shouldn't write Dragon Ball material on their own.

[ABED]

That is also why people who write a story never should be too neurotical about consistency because that also can backfire in so extremely limiting your writing that you end up writing a show or game that you have no fun with anymore

For instance?

I agree that if you kill off Kuririn or Piccolo, they should've gotten more screen time.