Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 17 - Official Discussion Thread

[Lord Beerus]

A pretty dull first half of the episode that was saved with some sprinkling of characterisation for Arinsu.

The second half of the episode is really what Daima should have consistently been from the get-go: great animation, good narrative progression, humour that doesn't feel jarringly out of place or cringe and lore that enriches the context of the plot.

With 3 episodes left, I'm not confident of them sticking the landing of this show. But I'm certain we're getting Kid Vegetto in the climax.

[Hellspawn28]

Gomah's transformation is lame. Even Garlic Jr's transformation looks better because at least it looks different. Gomah with the third eye feels like if Gomah just got bigger and bulky.

[Mr Baggins]

Just looking at Daima's fight pacing throughout... I really can't see the Gomah fight going till 20.

Agreed. Between the fights generally not extending past an episode's worth of runtime and the group often visiting two, sometimes three locations per episode, Daima's adventure pacing really has been breakneck from the start.

Unless there are additional twists in store for Gomah, I foresee another conflict happening altogether by the 19th episode, perhaps starting as early as the next one. As long as there's satisfying closure to the stuff with Arinsu and Glorio, I'm happy.

[YamiGoku]

With 3 episodes left, I'm not confident of them sticking the landing of this show. But I'm certain we're getting Kid Vegetto in the climax.

I dont know if you know about the leaks (if you dont want to know ignore me) but

Spoiler:

there is a supposed new Goku form, would they do that plus a fusion cramed in the last 3 episodes?

[Lord Beerus]

With 3 episodes left, I'm not confident of them sticking the landing of this show. But I'm certain we're getting Kid Vegetto in the climax.

I dont know if you know about the leaks (if you dont want to know ignore me) but

Spoiler:

there is a supposed new Goku form, would they do that plus a fusion cramed in the last 3 episodes?

Yeah, I wouldn't bee surprised if that all happened in the last 3 episodes. Gotta sell those Super Dragon Ball Heroes cards somehow.

[TechExpert2021]

Gotta sell those Super Dragon Ball Heroes cards somehow.

And new Dragon Ball Super Divers cards.

[Ronin]

Right before Arinsu told Kuu and Duu to join the fight, I was half expecting her to tell them to get the other 2 dragon balls instead. I mean, all 3 are right there for the taking with all the strong fighters distracted by Gomah. Of course Panzy, Supreme Kai, maybe Neva (dunno about Glorio) would try to do something but fail. She wouldn't be able to use them, but maybe that's where Kuu comes in. What if he has some secret ability where he can read minds or other means that extracts information from Neva? What would happen if he absorbed Neva? Would he still obey Arinsu? Would he turn good or march to the beat of his own drum instead?

[JulieYBM]

Arinsu's smart enough to know that taking out Gomah is the bigger immediate benefit to her. What is Gokuu going to do, take over ruling the Demon Realm and provide a roadblock to her goals—as wel know them—in that case?

[Ronin]

Arinsu's smart enough to know that taking out Gomah is the bigger immediate benefit to her. What is Gokuu going to do, take over ruling the Demon Realm and provide a roadblock to her goals—as wel know them—in that case?

Maybe her wish would change to something else instead like switching possession of the Evil Third Eye to her or something. It could give her a bigger power up too. Or she could wish for a second, even more powerful Third Eye which could also indirectly grant her original wish too.

[goku the krump dancer]

Nah, man. Gomah is very likely it. These are the same people that revealed Zamasu was indeed the bad guy. They're not gonna throw any curveballs with only 3 episodes left. lol. Awakening probably refers to the inevitable fusion that the episode will end with.

Just looking at Daima's fight pacing throughout... I really can't see the Gomah fight going till 20. The only major fights we've had actually even go past a single episode would be the simultaneous fights of Vegeta VS Tamagami 2 and Doo VS Tamagami 3. Other than that, every fight the show has done before this has been fairly briskly paced. And as it stands, with this Gomah fight... Everyone's already chipped in, and Goku has already assumed his most powerful form. I just don't see this specific fight still having three episodes' worth of material left in it. It feels like it's already played most of its cards. Plus I still feel like Arinsu and the Majins need some sort of payoff because as it stands, their actual villainy amounts to temporarily distracting Goku & Co for half an episode, in a fight that did not even get to conclude. Even taking into account how incredibly nothing Degesu turned out to be, I refuse to believe this is all we're getting out of a character with as much buildup as Arinsu. Oh, and we also need payoff on the "Glorio secretly working for her" thing.

I predict SSJ3 Goku failing to win because of the energy depleting, ala Baby fight.

I don’t see that happening simply because Vegeta showed that he could use SS3 quite comfortably in his kid body without any accelerated stamina drain. His fight with Tami-2 lasted way longer than Goku’s first fight with Baby. Goku could barely sustain SS3 for 30 seconds in GT when he first transformed on Earth.

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

I think this forum, the people overall in this discussion for Daima just might be the most toxic, ungrateful and unsatiable people I ever saw on any forum discussion ever.

You people are not happy with ANYTHING, the episode is slow -I HATE IT, the episode has action - I DIDN'T LIKE IT, the episode has no depth - IT HAD NOTHING DEEP, the episode is deep and has lore - I DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR THING

Holy smokes, I swear to god I never ever saw something like that.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but based on such unreasonable hate and comments that I am reading it seems like some people are not happy WITH ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING.

From some of the comments here it would appear as if OG Dragonball, Dragonball Z, Dragonball GT and Dragonball Super are absolute masterpieces in every shape and form with a flawless story, animation, character design, character development, fight coreography, everything is flawless and perfect, meanwhile in Daima everything is absolute trash, horrible, bad, disgusting.

Newsflash, all of the Dragonball series have some MAJOR flaws and some MAJOR issues in case everyone here forgot already, its not like they are amazing and perfect and Daima is 10 times bellow that level and trash.

I don't see Daima as the worst in the franchise neither the best, but certainly its not an outliner like everyone here is making it out to be.

Even Dragonball Z which is probably the most solid and complete from the franchise has a TON of quite major flaws and problems.

But seems like all of that is irrelevant for everyone here since that is the past and it seems like it has some sort of protection now as a treasure of dragonball meanwhile daima is new and its trash and crap.

Its just funny honestly. Completely delusional to be honest.

Every show has flaws. Except for Big Bad Beetleborgs, but that's a whole different subject.
Ultimately I can look past flaws as long as the show entertains me in general.

This is just me, but Cowboy Bebop is as close to perfect as any TV anime has gotten. But, I don't want to derail the topic so I'll stop here.

[Hugo Boss]

The character interactions were a major highlight this week. I liked how Bulma nudged Arinsu into sending Kuu and Duu to help against Gomah. Gomah himself was another standout; despite his massive power-up, he’s still the same guy at heart, worrying about his palace getting wrecked mid-fight. It’s honestly kind of funny seeing he go from a fretting underling to an overconfident powerhouse.

The action was solid, especially in the second half of the episode. Seeing Goku finally pull out Super Saiyan 3 was satisfying, especially since he seemed to be deliberately holding it back for as long as possible. The callback to the Buu arc is obvious, and it makes me wish we got an extended fight between Goku and Duu. Given Goku’s experience against Buu, it would have been interesting to see how that knowledge played into his approach against Duu. Instead, the fight was cut short in favor of the current battle, which, while exciting, feels like it’s missing a more in-depth 1v1.

On the story side, I agree that Glorio’s arc feels like it’s floundering. He’s had buildup, but the show just isn’t following through. It’s weird that he came face-to-face with Arinsu, and yet… nothing happened? It’s one of the few aspects of the climax that feels off. Hopefully, the next episodes address it.

One last thing. Goku’s magical staff seemed to have a special highlight during his transformation. That moment stood out, and I wonder if it foreshadows something important. Could it be tied to the fight’s resolution, or does it hint at a new ability? Definitely something to keep an eye on.

Looking forward to next week!

[Xeogran]

You seriously thought Goku was not going to use SS3 at all in Daima? Forget basic narrative structure to hype up the villain, it's such an easy fanservice thing to do. This is literally Goku using his strongest transformation and this is Dragonball. There is no timeline where it would have not happened.

I thought this series would leave it up to Vegeta to hype up SSJ3 while Goku uses SSJ2 and the eventual fusion, but I guess he had to go at his current strongest against the final boss, while Vegeta is now holding back for.. reasons.

[Mister_Popo]

In the first half of Super, there were a few episodes with such poor animation that they damaged the franchise's reputation. Fortunately, modern Dragon Ball has learned from that and made animation one of its greatest strengths. This was especially evident in this episode. The animation was simply stellar. The first part of Goku vs. Duu felt a bit stiff, but after that, it was all about dynamic camerawork, wide shots, and impactful frames.

Watching this spectacular action unfold, I can't help but feel a bit conflicted. Yes, it’s great that we’re getting such a visually stunning finale, but it would be even better if the story were on the same level. Where’s the real payoff when it comes to tying up loose ends and providing satisfaction in character arcs and involvement?

One recurring theme in Daima is characters switching sides. For example, Glorio’s betrayal of his comrades goes completely unnoticed, and Gomah doesn’t even seem slightly surprised when Neva suddenly starts helping the Z-Fighters. We’ll likely never find out Dr. Arinsu’s true master plan either. Her connection to Shin could have made her a more interesting final villain than Gomah. Instead, the Shin-Arinsu confrontation (and last week’s Shin-Degesu one) lacked tension and depth because Arinsu and Degesu were immediately swept aside to make way for Gomah. And when Gomah is finally defeated and Arinsu chooses the “good” side, Duu and Kuu—who embody Majin Buu’s essence of evil—suddenly become “good” as well, with no real explanation?
Perhaps they’ll address things like Glorio’s betrayal in the final episode, maybe even as a joke or a throwaway line. But by then, it’ll be too little, too late.

New characters like Glorio and Panzy had little impact on the story. They lacked strong motivations (no flashbacks, minimal character development), and even in the final battle, they were quickly sidelined in favor of the Goku (-Vegeta?) show. Throughout Daima, they felt more like filler than meaningful additions. Even characters like Merus and Granolah in Super had more backbone and more meaningful roles than Glorio and Panzy here. That’s a missed opportunity.
Then there are the relatable characters who have had almost no role at all. Krillin, Master Roshi, and others have been key figures throughout Dragon Ball's 40-year history. It would have been fun to see how a rejuvenated version of them fared on Earth from time to time. Is Roshi after the girls now? What is Krillin doing? Since the wish to make everyone younger happens in the Demon Realm, by the time the Z-Fighters return to Earth, everyone there would have already been de-aged as well. So, we’ll probably never get to see Krillin and Roshi in their younger forms again. Piccolo did join Goku and Vegeta in the Demon Realm, but he barely had any impact or weight in the story. So that, too, feels like a missed opportunity.

Making Gomah the final villain of the series is a straightforward choice but also very typical of Toriyama. He sometimes throws in twists—like Goku Black ultimately turning out to be Zamasu—but more often than not, the main antagonist remains the primary threat until the arc’s conclusion. Gomah was the mastermind behind the drastic de-aging of the characters, so it was expected that he’d be the final opponent, in true Toriyama fashion. Some fans speculate that another final villain might emerge, but with only three episodes left (and the final episode probably won’t consist mostly of fighting), that seems highly unlikely.
As for Gomah’s design resembling Jiren, I see it as an intentional Easter egg. Gomah started off as weak as a ragdoll, but after unlocking his Third Eye, he suddenly became an immovable tank—just like Jiren. It's an attempt to give his character a somewhat fitting parodic effect.

And there’s no doubt that Gomah is a tank now. He’s only just discovered his powers and is still holding back while toying with the Z-Fighters. Since SSJ3 Goku has already been introduced in the final battle, it won't be enough to stop Gomah. We’ll likely see either a fusion or a new transformation in the next episode. The bugs have been hinted at and will probably come into play. Next week’s episode is titled "Awakening", which could very well refer to Goku unlocking a new form. Awakenings usually happen within a single character, and Goku has been Dragon Ball’s central figure for 40 years. Perhaps they’ll attempt a fusion, but it might fail, leading Neva to use his magic to grant Goku a temporary power boost—allowing him to achieve a one-time-only SSJ4-like form to defeat Gomah and restore peace to the Demon Realm.

The real question is: how logical would such a transformation be within this story? In Dragon Ball Super, the God forms and MUI had a clear logic behind them, helping Goku become a better martial artist within the context of the newly introduced divine hierarchy. But in the Demon Realm—where magic has played a relatively minor role so far (and where Gomah is essentially just an overpowered brute)—a sudden new "magic" form would feel like fanservice just for the sake of it. Still, don’t be too shocked into a heart attack if it happens...

[Supersaiyan69]

Daima is the best thing to happen in the DB universe since the cell saga,
From animation , to storyline to fight scenes, it’s everything a true dragon ball fan would want.
Kinda sucks to read all these negative comments.

[AliTheZombie13]

Daima is the best thing to happen in the DB universe since the cell saga,
From animation , to storyline to fight scenes, it’s everything a true dragon ball fan would want.
Kinda sucks to read all these negative comments.

Do tell us, what exactly is a True Dragon Ball Fan™? Is it someone who loves Dragon Ball unconditionally?
If so, it saddens me to see a True Dragon Ball Fan™ like you exclude Boo, GT, Super and Heroes from your definition.

[shadowfox87]

I hate villains who acquire power through an item or wish or external means. I don't see Gomah as a real threat but just a temporary annoyance. For people to compare him to Jiren, is an insult to Jiren's hard work and determination.

Even if Daima ends with Gomah's defeat, I hope in the future we'll have someone later that's more intelligent and stronger like Mechikabura or Demigra or even the unknown demon that killed Jiren's parents.

[Mister_Popo]

I hate villains who acquire power through an item or wish or external means. I don't see Gomah as a real threat but just a temporary annoyance. For people to compare him to Jiren, is an insult to Jiren's hard work and determination.

Even if Daima ends with Gomah's defeat, I hope in the future we'll have someone later that's more intelligent and stronger like Mechikabura or Demigra or even the unknown demon that killed Jiren's parents.

I agree, but for the villain to truly feel like a real threat, the story needs to have that grim undertone from the very beginning. Daima didn’t have that dark atmosphere from the start, which you can create in a story centered around demons. I think this is partly due to the choice to bring back an old-school Dragon Ball feel (from the original manga) for the franchise’s 40th anniversary. And I believe that at some point during production, they decided to stick to that approach, which then makes a "gag villain" feel like the most "logical" choice in the end. He has that Jiren-like strength and presence, which is needed for a pre BOG villain that supposed to be stronger than Majin Buu, but at the same time, he’s also like Pilaf on steroids in terms of his characterization. It’s like they blended an over-the-top, almost comedic villain with someone who’s supposed to be a real powerhouse, which creates a bit of a disconnect.

The Zamasu arc in Super had a much darker tone than Daima, but that element was consistently present from the start of the arc. Maybe they can bring the Demon Realm back into Super later on, with a darker tone and a villain who exudes menace right from the beginning.

[Hugo Boss]

Personally, I prefer Gomah over Jiren or Zamasu. The fact that he’s an obvious nod to Pilaf is actually one of the things I love about his character. I don’t think a villain necessarily needs a dark or grim tone to feel like a real threat. It’s a trope that’s been done so many times that, to me, it feels generic and even a bit boring.

What I like about Toriyama’s approach is that he often takes inspiration from real-life people to shape his characters. That makes them feel more unique and, in some cases, even more relatable. Gomah having this over-the-top, comedic side while also being a powerhouse just feels very Toriyama-esque to me, and I think that’s what makes him stand out.

That said, I wouldn’t be against the Demon Realm getting explored in Super later on, but I’d prefer it to have its own distinct flavor rather than just relying on a darker tone for the sake of it.

[Zona_Saiyan]

I hate villains who acquire power through an item or wish or external means. I don't see Gomah as a real threat but just a temporary annoyance. For people to compare him to Jiren, is an insult to Jiren's hard work and determination.

Even if Daima ends with Gomah's defeat, I hope in the future we'll have someone later that's more intelligent and stronger like Mechikabura or Demigra or even the unknown demon that killed Jiren's parents.

I still hope that Arinsu will be the final villain they must defeat or at least we can see her in a future saga where she has more involvement, as she is the only antagonist that could be taken seriously and has proven to have an ambitious evil plan.