Stronger or weaker after absorbing South Kaioushin?

[Mr.Piccolo]

As promised:
Seeing how this thread has fallen apart already, how about I put some statements down and you simply agree to disagree with what I put? I think the easiest way to put this is to explain one of the more complex characters of one of the least complex arcs: The Buu Arc. So I’ll start off with Majin Buu. (Will dub/Viz/fanboy terms. I’m typing this on campus so I’m not going to reference anything so bear with me. Viewers discretion advised. And for the hell of it, spoiler alert). God, this is a long read so.. hopefully this will shed light and end this thread..finally!
With that being said, Majin Buu!!!

Majin (Chibi) Buu is made and causes all sorts of terror. He fights the Kaioshin, killing two and absorbing one. Which one you might ask? The southern Kai, the strongest and “burly” Kai. Now, I’m going to say this and answer erik’s initial question: Buu got stronger after absorbing that Kaio (Now known as “Buff” Buu). Now, we see this new Buu battle the Kaioshin we first see (Prince) and he’s getting destroyed. It seems like Buu is going to deliver the final blow when the highest Kaio, Dai Kaio (?) saves him. He then unleashes a massive attack on Buu that cuts him into spam cubes. However! Buu covers himself over him and absorbs him becoming what we know as “Fat Buu”. That Buu is sealed for sometime until fanboys wanted more Goku .

So we fast-forward to Gohan, the last Kaioshin (supposedly), Babidi and Dabura. Vegeta and Goku are both fighting at SSj2 which allows Buu to go to “Full Power” and he is released from his seal. Now it gets interesting… Buu is insulted by Dabura, a character that is said to be at Cell’s level (“Perfect”, but I won’t get into that). Dabura is swatted away which leaves Gohan in shock seeing how in all fairness, he was fairly even with Dabura. Now, Gohan and Kaioshin are easily beaten and Vegeta arrives. This is where I’ll point out Buu’s current strength and the confusion of his power increase and/or decrease.Buu got stronger after absorbing the southern Kaio. As for the other one he absorbed, I’m going to say first off that the Southern one might have been stronger than him, if not even. I feel, again IMO, he wasn’t necessarily weakened by the other Kai, but his “kind influence”, didn’t give him a need to fight the way he did before. Doesn’t make much sense written out but yeah.

I’m going to leave it with (Fat) Buu, at the moment, is at least stronger than Chibi Buu, mm ‘kay. Let’s see, Vegeta comes and self-destructs, which is a futile effort. Goku fights that same Buu later as SSj3 and IMHO, is stronger than him. I think Goku wanted to fight him because 1) He’s Goku and likes to fight. 2) Had to stall for Trunks. Okay, Goku teaches the boys fusion, Goku leaves. Now..! Majin Buu splits in two: His evil and good form. He expels all of his anger and it forms an evil Buu that is stronger than him. He tries to turn the Evil Buu to chocolate but he is the one that is turned into chocolate and this causes another transformation (which is odd because the other times Buu turned people into candy, they just died).

Anyway, Buu becomes “Super Buu” and is now Stronger then either “Evil” or “Good/Fat/Mr.” individually, but IMO he’s weaker than the “Buff” Buu. Let’s see, Buu fights Gotenks, makes short work of him, is caught off guard by a few attacks and later fights Gotenks at SSj3. At this point, SSj3 Gotenks has surpassed SSj3 Goku at the very least BY FAR (Yes, Goku isn’t the strongest get over it).

At this point, Gotenks is on level with Buu, if not stronger. But unfortunately, his time runs out due to negligence and SSj3 draining time. It seems all is lost until, a super-duper powered up Mystic Gohan appears (That’s right, Mystic. No quotations because that’s the best way to call him so there)! Mystic Gohan beats the crap out of Buu; he’s clearly stronger than SSj3 Gotenks (despite Trunks’ side comments). So at this point we know that Gohan is stronger than Gotenks, who is stronger than Goku, who is then stronger than Vegeta in their highest respective forms. Now, Buu absorbs Gotenks and Piccolo and is stronger than Gohan. Goku comes back to Earth and Gohan is later absorbed creating the strongest Majin Buu in the entire series. One more time, this is the Southern Kai, Dai Kaio, Mystic Gohan, Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks. Shut your mouth; it’s the strongest Buu.

So yeah, Vegeta arrives and Goku fuses to make, sigh, Vegetto the strongest character in the Z universe (you win, Rocketman). Even though Vegetto (perhaps SSj2), makes short work of Buu, Buu is still levels above the rest. As we know, Vegetto is absorbed on purpose and Goku and Vegeta split in two. They find the pods where their allies are held only to be confronted by a mini-“Super” Buu (At this point everyone has been detached except the “Fat” Buu). Now, Goku tells Vegeta that he should’ve kept the earring. Why? Because they couldn’t face a “Super” Buu, let alone a “Super” Buu inside of a “Super” Buu! It would never work! So Goku calls Buu’s bluff only to see that it is hopeless. Vegeta detaches the “Fat Buu” and this leads to the ultimate confusion.

Taking all of their friends out and leaving the “Fat” Buu, the saiyans leave Buu’s body. Now, I believe we “Fat” is made up of the Southern and Dai Kaio, by removing those two, we are left with the initial Majin Buu (Chibi). What we do see, however, is Buu slowly changing back. For some reason, we see the “Buff” form but technically, that shouldn’t be. Was that to make the transformation more dramatic? Hell, the anime made good work of that, believe me!

This is the first time Vegeta and Goku see Chibi Buu and their reaction was basically judging a book by its cover. Wrong. Buu destroys the planet and Goku only has time to save Hercule and Dende (and Bee). Buu follows them and the final battle for the fate of the universe (again) is underway! Goku wins a game of rock-paper-scissors against Vegeta and gets to fight Buu first, obviously denying the chance to use the portara which would’ve made short work of this Buu. Goku goes SSj3 and IMO is on Chibi Buu’s level.

However, Buu’s level of stamina and the fact that he can regenerate gives Buu a slight edge. Goku explains the whole power drainage with SSj3 and how it’s different in the afterlife. He says he can go “Full Power” (ugh, Movie 13 FTL) and defeat Buu. Vegeta tries to buy time as SSj2 and Buu easily outclasses him. I mean, come on! He was beaten by the “Fat” Buu earlier and Toriyama didn’t bring Goku back just for Vegeta to save the day.. So anyway, Hercule gets Buu’s attention and Buu is troubled.

He spits out the “Fat” Buu( ZOMG, no Mr.) and is ready to fight. He goes after Hercule and is stopped by Mr. Buu! The two Buu’s battle and Goku can’t get to full power. In short, Chibi Buu is stronger, Goku makes a spirit bomb, and Buu dies. I would add more, but I’ve typed way, way too much and I feel so nerdy right now.. I’ll add more later but for now, use this for the basis of your “debates”. And please don't be foolish enough to quote this whole thing.. @_@
-Rick

[Acid_Reign]

My doubts aren`t founded ? You can`t prove anything you say , yet you just expect me to agree with you just because ?
Absorption and trying to revive Boo are the same thing since both represent giving Buu energy . Use your brain so I don`t really have to explain everything to you .
And just because his father created him means what ? You think Babidi said that they can`t use Kaioshin energy just because he felt like it ?

Let's see you prove that when Babidi said that he meant Kaioshin energy IN ANY FORM. The problem is you can't, because he never did. Chances are you can't even properly explain the concept behind "energy," because otherwise you would know that what I'm saying makes legitimate sense.

But whatever, have fun desperately picking apart Piccolo's post.

[Magneto]

Majin (Chibi) Buu is made and causes all sorts of terror. He fights the Kaioshin, killing two and absorbing one. Which one you might ask? The southern Kai, the strongest and “burly” Kai. Now, I’m going to say this and answer erik’s initial question: Buu got stronger after absorbing that Kaio (Now known as “Buff” Buu). Now, we see this new Buu battle the Kaioshin we first see (Prince) and he’s getting destroyed. It seems like Buu is going to deliver the final blow when the highest Kaio, Dai Kaio (?) saves him. He then unleashes a massive attack on Buu that cuts him into spam cubes. However! Buu covers himself over him and absorbs him becoming what we know as “Fat Buu”.

1.It is not stated that South Kaioshin made him stronger
2.He couldn`t have made him stronger due to the fact that Kaioshin energy can`t make Buu stronger .
3.Most of what you just said there are fillers , so you must be basing this on the anime in which case I might just ignore everything since we are discussing events that happened in the manga .

So we fast-forward to Gohan, the last Kaioshin (supposedly), Babidi and Dabura. Vegeta and Goku are both fighting at SSj2 which allows Buu to go to “Full Power” and he is released from his seal. Now it gets interesting… Buu is insulted by Dabura, a character that is said to be at Cell’s level (“Perfect”, but I won’t get into that). Dabura is swatted away which leaves Gohan in shock seeing how in all fairness, he was fairly even with Dabura. Now, Gohan and Kaioshin are easily beaten and Vegeta arrives. This is where I’ll point out Buu’s current strength and the confusion of his power increase and/or decrease.Buu got stronger after absorbing the southern Kaio. As for the other one he absorbed, I’m going to say first off that the Southern one might have been stronger than him, if not even. I feel, again IMO, he wasn’t necessarily weakened by the other Kai, but his “kind influence”, didn’t give him a need to fight the way he did before. Doesn’t make much sense written out but yeah.

As I said Southern Kaioshin didn`t/couldn`t have made Buu stronger . And what exactly in this post proves otherwise?

I’m going to leave it with (Fat) Buu, at the moment, is at least stronger than Chibi Buu, mm ‘kay. Let’s see, Vegeta comes and self-destructs, which is a futile effort. Goku fights that same Buu later as SSj3 and IMHO, is stronger than him. I think Goku wanted to fight him because 1) He’s Goku and likes to fight. 2) Had to stall for Trunks. Okay, Goku teaches the boys fusion, Goku leaves. Now..! Majin Buu splits in two: His evil and good form. He expels all of his anger and it forms an evil Buu that is stronger than him. He tries to turn the Evil Buu to chocolate but he is the one that is turned into chocolate and this causes another transformation (which is odd because the other times Buu turned people into candy, they just died).

Fat Buu being at least stronger than Kid Buu ? That sounded pretty stupid . And what exactly are you basing that on ?
And Super Buu later explained that Good Buu was the only one that got special treatement .

Anyway, Buu becomes “Super Buu” and is now Stronger then either “Evil” or “Good/Fat/Mr.” individually, but IMO he’s weaker than the “Buff” Buu. Let’s see, Buu fights Gotenks, makes short work of him, is caught off guard by a few attacks and later fights Gotenks at SSj3. At this point, SSj3 Gotenks has surpassed SSj3 Goku at the very least BY FAR (Yes, Goku isn’t the strongest get over it).

Super Buu being in your opinion weaker than Buff Buu ? It`s not an opinion about this , it`s stated he is stronger .
And no , Gotenks didn`t surpass Goku , and again , nothing in your post says otherwise .

At this point, Gotenks is on level with Buu, if not stronger. But unfortunately, his time runs out due to negligence and SSj3 draining time. It seems all is lost until, a super-duper powered up Mystic Gohan appears (That’s right, Mystic. No quotations because that’s the best way to call him so there)! Mystic Gohan beats the crap out of Buu; he’s clearly stronger than SSj3 Gotenks (despite Trunks’ side comments). So at this point we know that Gohan is stronger than Gotenks, who is stronger than Goku, who is then stronger than Vegeta in their highest respective forms. Now, Buu absorbs Gotenks and Piccolo and is stronger than Gohan. Goku comes back to Earth and Gohan is later absorbed creating the strongest Majin Buu in the entire series. One more time, this is the Southern Kai, Dai Kaio, Mystic Gohan, Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks. Shut your mouth; it’s the strongest Buu.

Gohan is stronger than Gotenks , but he is weaker than both Goku & Kid Buu . You haven`t proved that Gotenks > Goku so don`t jump to conculsions .

So yeah, Vegeta arrives and Goku fuses to make, sigh, Vegetto the strongest character in the Z universe (you win, Rocketman). Even though Vegetto (perhaps SSj2), makes short work of Buu, Buu is still levels above the rest. As we know, Vegetto is absorbed on purpose and Goku and Vegeta split in two. They find the pods where their allies are held only to be confronted by a mini-“Super” Buu (At this point everyone has been detached except the “Fat” Buu). Now, Goku tells Vegeta that he should’ve kept the earring. Why? Because they couldn’t face a “Super” Buu, let alone a “Super” Buu inside of a “Super” Buu! It would never work! So Goku calls Buu’s bluff only to see that it is hopeless. Vegeta detaches the “Fat Buu” and this leads to the ultimate confusion.

As a matter of fact the earings wouldn`t have worked inside of Buu , so Goku said it because once outside they would be able to beat him , not inside . Goku calls Buu`s bluff ? What bluff ?

Taking all of their friends out and leaving the “Fat” Buu, the saiyans leave Buu’s body. Now, I believe we “Fat” is made up of the Southern and Dai Kaio, by removing those two, we are left with the initial Majin Buu (Chibi). What we do see, however, is Buu slowly changing back. For some reason, we see the “Buff” form but technically, that shouldn’t be. Was that to make the transformation more dramatic? Hell, the anime made good work of that, believe me!

While reading through your post , another thing supporting my claims came to my mind .
Since Southern Kaioshin wasn`t connected to Buu anymore , Buu couldn`t have gotten the power to transform into Buff Buu , it means it was Kid Buu`s power all along . So it means that Kid Buu`s power was enough for transforming into Buff Buu , so Buff Buu couldn`t have been stronger than Kid Buu . Which yet again shows South Kaioshin couldn`t have made Buu stronger .

This is the first time Vegeta and Goku see Chibi Buu and their reaction was basically judging a book by its cover. Wrong. Buu destroys the planet and Goku only has time to save Mr. Satan and Dende (and Bee). Buu follows them and the final battle for the fate of the universe (again) is underway! Goku wins a game of rock-paper-scissors against Vegeta and gets to fight Buu first, obviously denying the chance to use the portara which would’ve made short work of this Buu. Goku goes SSj3 and IMO is on Chibi Buu’s level.

Everything`s right in there except the fact that Goku at full power SSJ3 is stated to be stronger than Kid Buu .

However, Buu’s level of stamina and the fact that he can regenerate gives Buu a slight edge. Goku explains the whole power drainage with SSj3 and how it’s different in the afterlife. He says he can go “Full Power” (ugh, Movie 13 FTL) and defeat Buu. Vegeta tries to buy time as SSj2 and Buu easily outclasses him. I mean, come on! He was beaten by the “Fat” Buu earlier and Toriyama didn’t bring Goku back just for Vegeta to save the day..Rolling Eyes So anyway, Mr. Satan gets Buu’s attention and Buu is troubled.

He spits out the “Fat” Buu( ZOMG, no Mr.) and is ready to fight. He goes after Mr. Satan and is stopped by Mr. Buu! The two Buu’s battle and Goku can’t get to full power. In short, Chibi Buu is stronger, Goku makes a spirit bomb, and Buu dies. I would add more, but I’ve typed way, way too much and I feel so nerdy right now.. I’ll add more later but for now, use this for the basis of your “debates”. And please don't be foolish enough to quote this whole thing.. @_@

And nothing new in here neither ..


To be onest all you typed was just a waste of time , and contribued with nothing with the discussion except bringing me another point as to why Southern Kaioshin couldn`t have made Kid Buu stronger .

[Magneto]

Let's see you prove that when Babidi said that he meant Kaioshin energy IN ANY FORM. The problem is you can't, because he never did. Chances are you can't even properly explain the concept behind "energy," because otherwise you would know that what I'm saying makes legitimate sense.

But whatever, have fun desperately picking apart Piccolo's post.

Why would I need to do that ? He said he can`t use Kaioshin energy on Buu , making Kaioshin energy not being able to powerup Buu period . That simple

[Mr.Piccolo]

First off, ' not `As for your responses:

1.It is not stated that South Kaioshin made him stronger

Why wouldn't it? Everything doesn't have to be spelled out in a series. If that was the case, there wouldn't be "discussions" like this.

2.He couldn`t have made him stronger due to the fact that Kaioshin energy can`t make Buu stronger.

When was that said? Babidi knew the saiyans would provide a decent amount of energy to bringing Buu to full power, if that's what you are confusing it with.

3.Most of what you just said there are fillers , so you must be basing this on the anime in which case I might just ignore everything since we are discussing events that happened in the manga.

Most of what I said if filler and should be ignored.. Oh, but you replied.. . Well, when you say "most of what I said", I don't understand. Everything so far has either happened in the manga or has been explained by someone. Examples would help too.

As I said Southern Kaioshin didn`t/couldn`t have made Buu stronger . And what exactly in this post proves otherwise?

Why wouldn't he get stronger. Buu absorbs strong people. Buu get's stronger. I'll quote that just to make sure we're on the same page.

Buu absorbs strong people. Buu get's stronger.

Fat Buu being at least stronger than Kid Buu ? That sounded pretty stupid . And what exactly are you basing that on ?
And Super Buu later explained that Good Buu was the only one that got special treatement .

Well this will be one place that we'd obviously disagree on because you don't think Kai's make Buu gain power. But for the Fat buu to have the two Kai's added to his (Chibi) Buu's power, there would have to be a change. And at this point, I'm speaking of that Fat Buu before he split between good and evil.

Super Buu being in your opinion weaker than Buff Buu ? It`s not an opinion about this , it`s stated he is stronger .
And no , Gotenks didn`t surpass Goku , and again , nothing in your post says otherwise .

Again, your arguement is has a lot to do with the Southern Kaio. If apparently he's a character that you dislike =p. What, in your opinion, shows that Goku is stronger than Gotenks? Proof if you don't mind, either.

Gohan is stronger than Gotenks , but he is weaker than both Goku & Kid Buu . You haven`t proved that Gotenks > Goku so don`t jump to conculsions.

What? Gohan is stronger than Chibi Buu and SSj3 Goku. The fact that you said "Kid" contradicts with what you say about using manga as the base of the discussion because the term "kid" isn't even used in the manga.. With that put aside, Goku was outclassed by Super Buu. He said so in the manga, in Buu's body, remember.

As a matter of fact the earings wouldn`t have worked inside of Buu , so Goku said it because once outside they would be able to beat him , not inside . Goku calls Buu`s bluff ? What bluff ?

Well, Goku did mention using the earrings outside, which is right. But, he also mentioned fusion (as in the dance) to beat Buu and he said that it was the only way to win at that point. Why? Because Super Buu is stronger than Goku and Vegeta regardless of fact that they were in Buu and all of that...The Bluff? Buu says you can't win and Goku does the blast only to find that Buu was right. Maybe "bluff" wasn't a good word to use...oh well.

While reading through your post , another thing supporting my claims came to my mind . Since Southern Kaioshin wasn`t connected to Buu anymore , Buu couldn`t have gotten the power to transform into Buff Buu , it means it was Kid Buu`s power all along . So it means that Kid Buu`s power was enough for transforming into Buff Buu , so Buff Buu couldn`t have been stronger than Kid Buu . Which yet again shows South Kaioshin couldn`t have made Buu stronger .

So to your claim, when Buu absorbs people, better yet the infamous Southern Kai, he only changes in appearance and nothing else?

Everything`s right in there except the fact that Goku at full power SSJ3 is stated to be stronger than Kid Buu.

Stated by Goku probably? He also thought that Vegeta could hold Buu off long enough, he also thought Gotenks would kill Buu, he also thought Gohan could catch an earring. Miscaluclation? Better ending? I'll PM Toriyama.

To be onest all you typed was just a waste of time , and contribued with nothing with the discussion except bringing me another point as to why Southern Kaioshin couldn`t have made Kid Buu stronger .

Well, I kind of saw that too. The only thing that I hoped to accomplish is finding out how and why you figure the Southern Kaio wouldn't effect Buu's power, how you figure that Goku is stronger than Gohan, and how to use an apostrophe. I guarantee none of this will sink in "onestly". (Crap, this is going to be one of those long quote posts.. Damn it all..

Is this "conversation" still happening?

*breaks beer bottle* You want some too..! No but really I don't know, this thread kind of self-destructed a while back, so I wanted to do a general summary of the Buu Arc. So if people can provide actual proof to what they are saying, then I guess it can be a discussion.. again...hopefully.
-Rick

[Kaboom]

Is this "conversation" still happening?

[Acid_Reign]

Why would I need to do that ? He said he can`t use Kaioshin energy on Buu , making Kaioshin energy not being able to powerup Buu period . That simple

You obviously have no perception of "context." Babidi very easily could have left a hundred things out; he never explicitly defined what Boo is and is not capable of. If you know anything about dialogue you know that not everything a character says can simply be accepted at face value.

Is this "conversation" still happening?

Unfortunately, yes.

[Daizensushi-x]

Is this "conversation" still happening?

Yeah, I was gonna say that. Sheesh...

[Virgil]

While I do not agree that Kid Boo is stronger than Super Boo, Magneto is right about him being more powerful than Fat Boo. Gokou claimed he could have defeated Fat Boo, but wanted to pass the torch on, so the children could protect the Earth while he was gone. He certainly said the same thing about Kid Boo, but AT made it clear that both were just as equally powerful.

Gokou never said he had to be at "Full Power" Super Saiya-jin 3 to defeat Kid Boo. That's a mistranslation from the Dra Scans. He was going to accumulate all of his energy into a single blast, and kill Kid Boo.

[Magneto]

Why wouldn't it? Everything doesn't have to be spelled out in a series. If that was the case, there wouldn't be "discussions" like this.

I`ve already shown numerous reasons in this thread why he couldn`t/didn`t make Buu stronger .

When was that said? Babidi knew the saiyans would provide a decent amount of energy to bringing Buu to full power, if that's what you are confusing it with.

I`m talking about Babidi stating that Kaioshin energy can`t be used to make Buu stronger .

Most of what I said if filler and should be ignored.. Oh, but you replied.. Rolling Eyes. Well, when you say "most of what I said", I don't understand. Everything so far has either happened in the manga or has been explained by someone. Examples would help too.

Examples ? "Now, we see this new Buu battle the Kaioshin we first see (Prince) and he’s getting destroyed. It seems like Buu is going to deliver the final blow when the highest Kaio, Dai Kaio (?) saves him. He then unleashes a massive attack on Buu that cuts him into spam cubes. However! Buu covers himself over him and absorbs him

Why wouldn't he get stronger. Buu absorbs strong people. Buu get's stronger. I'll quote that just to make sure we're on the same page.

I already explained why

Well this will be one place that we'd obviously disagree on because you don't think Kai's make Buu gain power. But for the Fat buu to have the two Kai's added to his (Chibi) Buu's power, there would have to be a change. And at this point, I'm speaking of that Fat Buu before he split between good and evil.

It doesn`t matter that you don`t agree with me when it`s shown that neither of the Kais made him stronger .

Again, your arguement is has a lot to do with the Southern Kaio. If apparently he's a character that you dislike =p. What, in your opinion, shows that Goku is stronger than Gotenks? Proof if you don't mind, either.

Me disliking South Kaioshin ? Why would I , since we`ve only seen him in a panel in the entire manga ?

What makes me think Goku is stronger than Gotenks ? Many reasons .
First of all , the obvious , that being the fact that Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu because neither of the Kaioshins could have made him stronger .
Then the fact that it`s stated that Gohan`s energy isn enough to beat Buu .
The fact that Goku , when talking about bringing Gohan & Gotenks , said to bring both of them to help them fight against Kid Buu , which suggests that neither of them was strong enough to take Buu one on one .
The fact that Vegeta mentioned that Goku is the only one who can fight Kid Buu , when they already had the Dragonballs and they could have revived Gohan and the others , the literal translation from the Japanese manga being Those who can fight him are only you
The fact that Vegeta said that Goku`s fight will be the fight that will determine the fate of the universe , the last fight , meaning that he doesn`t think Gohan nor Gotenks can stop Buu if Goku loses . The translation from the Japanese manga is : So it finally starts ? A fight that will determine the fate of the entire universe/outer space ! The last fight .. !
The fact that the Old Kai , the one who powered up Gohan to the level he was at , doubted that the Spirit Bomb is strong enough to beat Buu even with Gohan`s energy .

And many , many more but I`m not gonna type them all .

What? Gohan is stronger than Chibi Buu and SSj3 Goku. The fact that you said "Kid" contradicts with what you say about using manga as the base of the discussion because the term "kid" isn't even used in the manga..Rolling Eyes With that put aside, Goku was outclassed by Super Buu. He said so in the manga, in Buu's body, remember.

The terms "fat" , "evil" , "super" , "buff" , "kid" are used in order to distinguise the forms that Buu attained . Hard to understand ?
As for what Goku said inside Super Buu , I`ve already showed why he said it and I`m not going to repeat myself . Search in the other pages .

Well, Goku did mention using the earrings outside, which is right. But, he also mentioned fusion (as in the dance) to beat Buu and he said that it was the only way to win at that point. Why? Because Super Buu is stronger than Goku and Vegeta regardless of fact that they were in Buu and all of that...The Bluff? Buu says you can't win and Goku does the blast only to find that Buu was right. Maybe "bluff" wasn't a good word to use...oh well.

He mentioned using the fusion dance because they no longer had the potara , and fusion was the only way to beat Buu outside in their condition (smaller than a flea) . Buu doesn`t say "you can`t win" before Goku does the blast . Get your facts straight . And learn what a bluff actually means before saying something is a bluff .

So to your claim, when Buu absorbs people, better yet the infamous Southern Kai, he only changes in appearance and nothing else?

In Southern Kaioshin`s case he didn`t recive any power , and possibly even dropped in some . So since he didn`t recive anything , Kid Buu`s power was enough to attain the Buff Buu form .

Stated by Goku probably? He also thought that Vegeta could hold Buu off long enough, he also thought Gotenks would kill Buu, he also thought Gohan could catch an earring. Miscaluclation? Better ending? I'll PM Toriyama.

I could own you using the same tehnique , and nullify the statements that Goku made showing that he is not the strongest . But , it seems yet again you don`t even know facts .It wasn`t Goku who stated it , it was Vegeta , and Goku didn`t contradict him .
If Buu really wanted Vegeta couldn`t have hold him more than 1 second , and he could have finished him off instantly . He thought Gotenks would kill Buu ? Well he was close to doing it , but the fusion expired . A fusion which Goku didn`t know how much it had left since he wasn`t in the time chamber when it was formed . And it`s not his fault Gohan is stupid and didn`t catch the earring . Besides , it was just a plot induced error , do you really think that people like Mystic Gohan who could move at the speed of light couldn`t catch the earring , when Raditz in the beginning of Dragonball Z caught a bullet point blank range ?
Not to mention this examples doesn`t have to do with anything , since sensing somebody`s powerlevel and saying he can beat another guy is a different thing .

As I said , your whole post was a waste of time ..

You obviously have no perception of "context." Babidi very easily could have left a hundred things out; he never explicitly defined what Boo is and is not capable of. If you know anything about dialogue you know that not everything a character says can simply be accepted at face value.

What context are you talking about ? He was stating that Kaioshin energy can`t be used , thus not being able to make Buu stronger . What part don`t you understand exactly ?

Goku never said he had to be at "Full Power" Super Saiya-jin 3 to defeat Kid Boo. That's a mistranslation from the Dra Scans. He was going to accumulate all of his energy into a single blast, and kill Kid Boo.

Yes he said it . During the time Vegeta was fighting Kid Buu , Goku was collecting enought energy to reach full power , and then , use an attack to destroy Kid Buu . In order to do a blast enough to kill Kid Buu he first had to get full power .

[Acid_Reign]

You obviously have no perception of "context." Babidi very easily could have left a hundred things out; he never explicitly defined what Boo is and is not capable of. If you know anything about dialogue you know that not everything a character says can simply be accepted at face value.

What context are you talking about ? He was stating that Kaioshin energy can`t be used , thus not being able to make Buu stronger . What part don`t you understand exactly ?

I understand perfectly fine. It's you who doesn't seem to understand. Babidi was not being specific. He did not say, "Kaioshin energy can not be used in any form and even if Boo were to absorb them there would be no consequence whatsoever." You are taking his words to mean more than they should. Are you really that stupid? If I say, "I don't want a chocolate bar," does that mean that I don't want one for the rest of my life? Of course not; it means I don't want one at this moment, under these present circumstances. Your point isn't any more a fact than it is you just making stuff up based on what you (and only you) have inferred from a line of dialogue.

[Magneto]

I understand perfectly fine. It's you who doesn't seem to understand. Babidi was not being specific. He did not say, "Kaioshin energy can not be used in any form and even if Boo were to absorb them there would be no consequence whatsoever." You are taking his words to mean more than they should. Are you really that stupid? If I say, "I don't want a chocolate bar," does that mean that I don't want one for the rest of my life? Of course not; it means I don't want one at this moment, under these present circumstances. Your point isn't any more a fact than it is you just making stuff up based on what you (and only you) have inferred from a line of dialogue.

You`re on top 5 the most stupid persons I`ve seen on the internet . But don`t be sad , with a few other posts like this you`ll get in top 3 in no time . Why would he say that in cannot be used in any form ? And you`re example just proves your stupidity .

[Kaboom]

"...and if you look to your left, ladies and gentlemen, you'll see a once-intelligent and meaningful thread having just started its rapid descent into Hell! And on our right, a bunny...."

[Magneto]

He`s the idiot who started insulting , can`t backup his claims and doesn`t know what he`s talking about .

[mAcChaos]

Use ', not `. It's starting to annoy me.

[Acid_Reign]

He`s the idiot who started insulting , can`t backup his claims and doesn`t know what he`s talking about .

More like you're backed into a corner and can't possibly defend your arbitrary claims any longer.

Why would he say that in cannot be used in any form

You don't quite "get" sarcasm, do you? Let me put this in words you can understand: He never did say that, so you're wrong.

And you`re example just proves your stupidity .

I'm the stupid one, yet you can't even get "your" and "you're" right? Which is being generous, because I don't think I've ever actually seen you use an apostrophe.


Hey Magneto am I on your "Top 3 Stupid List" yet or do I have to work a little harder to achieve such notoriety?

[Magneto]

More like you're backed into a corner and can't possibly defend your arbitrary claims any longer.

Funny

Backed in a corner with what ? What exactly have you proved ? Or better yet , what exactly have you tried to prove , because it seems you didn`t even know that ?

You don't quite "get" sarcasm, do you? Let me put this in words you can understand: He never did say that, so you're wrong.

As a matter of fact he said it can`t be used , period . So it can`t make Buu stronger .
Why would he need to say that it can`t be used in any form , since the energy was only in one form and you can`t prove that they could transform it into another , in which case they could have transformed it into another Babidi wouldn`t have made the statement ?

I'm the stupid one, yet you can't even get "your" and "you're" right? Which is being generous, because I don't think I've ever actually seen you use an apostrophe.

You do know that grammar corrections are a sign of somebody being desperate , right ?

Hey Magneto am I on your "Top 3 Stupid List" yet or do I have to work a little harder to achieve such notoriety?

Nah , you`re pretty far from it . Those 3 people are not easily passed lol

[Acid_Reign]

Backed in a corner with what ? What exactly have you proved ? Or better yet , what exactly have you tried to prove , because it seems you didn`t even know that ?

Not everything can be proven based solely on the comic books. Obviously, if it could, we wouldn't be having this discussion. As anyone who follows the series carefully can tell you, there are parts left out of both the manga and the animé. So, the best anyone can do to make sense of these apparent plot holes (without asking the author directly) is to speculate on what the case could have been. You aren't exempt from this. Everybody here is doing it.

The difference between us is that I have been doing so giving real-world examples, yet you on the other hand are claiming to know exactly what a character meant by words you didn't write. If you are so bent on proof, where is your proof that what Babidi said was all-inclusive? Tell me the exact page number and speech bubble that specifically states, "Kaioshin energy is useless regardless of what form it is in."

As a matter of fact he said it can`t be used , period . So it can`t make Buu stronger .
Why would he need to say that it can`t be used in any form , since the energy was only in one form and you can`t prove that they could transform it into another , in which case they could have transformed it into another Babidi wouldn`t have made the statement ?

Except the energy wasn't only in one form. Why do you think they needed people to fight just to revive him? If it's just the energy that the Z Fighters already have, what's stopping them from draining it from them remotely? Obviously, if they could, they would have, so the only other logical explanation is that they needed to have some sort of physical contact with them. That very fact, that tiny little piece of information, directly IMPLIES the transformation of energy. You can not use up the energy you have stored in your body to fight without first transforming it into kinetic energy, which is (without going into a Physical definition) the energy of movement. When you go to punch someone, you have to move, which means you have to use kinetic energy. When the opponents face meets your fist, they absorb some of that kinetic energy. That's what was powering Boo.

Absorption is clearly a different story, since as we can plainly see inside Boo's body, everybody is wrapped up in goo. Not only that, but they were completely unconscious. You know what that means? They weren't moving. And if they weren't moving, then they weren't using kinetic energy, so unless you're telling me that with each absorption Boo's outfit changed while his power remained exactly the same, it has to be a different type of energy, by definition.

You do know that grammar corrections are a sign of somebody being desperate , right ?

I'm hardly desperate, I'm just toying with your blatant hypocrisy.

[Magneto]

Not everything can be proven based solely on the comic books. Obviously, if it could, we wouldn't be having this discussion. As anyone who follows the series carefully can tell you, there are parts left out of both the manga and the animé. So, the best anyone can do to make sense of these apparent plot holes (without asking the author directly) is to speculate on what the case could have been. You aren't exempt from this. Everybody here is doing it.

The difference between us is that I have been doing so giving real-world examples, yet you on the other hand are claiming to know exactly what a character meant by words you didn't write. If you are so bent on proof, where is your proof that what Babidi said was all-inclusive? Tell me the exact page number and speech bubble that specifically states, "Kaioshin energy is useless regardless of what form it is in."

Not everything can be proven because sometimes you actually have to use your brain and apparently you have difficulties in doing so .
You haven`t been giving any good example , and nothing you said was backed up using the manga . I explained why that character meant what he did , you didn`t come up with any logical counter arguments and yet you continue to post . And I already explained why the Kaioshin energy is useless . It doesn`t matter what form it is in , because there is only one form given and you don`t have any proof that they can transform it into a form suitable for Buu to use .

Except the energy wasn't only in one form. Why do you think they needed people to fight just to revive him? If it's just the energy that the Z Fighters already have, what's stopping them from draining it from them remotely? Obviously, if they could, they would have, so the only other logical explanation is that they needed to have some sort of physical contact with them. That very fact, that tiny little piece of information, directly IMPLIES the transformation of energy. You can not use up the energy you have stored in your body to fight without first transforming it into kinetic energy, which is (without going into a Physical definition) the energy of movement. When you go to punch someone, you have to move, which means you have to use kinetic energy. When the opponents face meets your fist, they absorb some of that kinetic energy. That's what was powering Boo.

Absorption is clearly a different story, since as we can plainly see inside Boo's body, everybody is wrapped up in goo. Not only that, but they were completely unconscious. You know what that means? They weren't moving. And if they aren't moving, then they aren't using kinetic energy, so unless you're telling me that with each absorption Boo's outfit changed while his power remained exactly the same, it has to be a different type of energy, by definition.

As a matter of fact they did drain the energy from them remotley , Gohan being the example .But they couldn`t do it to all the fighters , because they couldn`t keep them from moving and doing it , like Kaioshin did in Gohan`s case . All the damage done by one of Babidi`s fighters to the other was being sent to make Buu stronger . That doesn`t imply any transformation , because the energy is being directly sent to Majin Boo once the damage is done . And no , it`s not the kinetic energy that Buu was absorbing , it was the person`s direct energy , their body energy , proving it again using Gohan`s case .
And as matter of fact absorption is the same thing since it uses the person`s direct energy , making Buu stronger from it . Kinetic energy has nothing to do with this case . Don`t use the kinetic example because it seems you have no ideea what it means lol
And it seems you don`t understand why Boo`s outfit changed . It changed because the person absorbed had that outfit not because of the person absorbed`s energy .

You`re closing on that top 3 fast lol

[Virgil]

Yes he said it . During the time Vegeta was fighting Kid Buu , Goku was collecting enought energy to reach full power , and then , use an attack to destroy Kid Buu . In order to do a blast enough to kill Kid Buu he first had to get full power .

You missed my point.

I'm not saying that Gokou didn't need all of his power to kill Kid Boo. A much better term would be restoring his chi. I now know you didn't mean to say he was gathering chi to become a "Full Power" Super Saiya-jin 3, but refrain from using it in the future, as it can be confused with the fan term of "Full Power", the state that Gokou attained as a Super Saiya-jin during the Cell Arc. They are essentially different in this context.