"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[TheSaiyanGod]

Now the manga will be incredible for Black's fans, after all it has become SSJ Rosé. Many criticized why they did not like it, even being more consistent than in the anime

[Lord Beerus]

I'm glad the manga is not rushing the ending but unfortunately the damage has already been done to Goku Black and Zamasu's character for me to even care if the ending is more logical than the anime.

[Grimlock]

Goku Black has Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan Rosé... That demands a new explanation because clearly, in this context, Super Saiyan Rosé is not his version of the Super Saiyan form anymore.

It couldn't be his version of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan because Zamasu is a Kaio, therefore he doesn't have god Ki... What is Super Saiyan Rosé then?

[Abra kadabra]

I have a feeling vegeta is gonna get rekt

[MyNiggaGoku]

Goku Black has Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan Rosé... That demands a new explanation because clearly, in this context, Super Saiyan Rosé is not his version of the Super Saiyan form anymore.

SSR was supposed to Black's equivalent of SSB from the very beginning.He has a normal SS state and his version of SSB which is SSR.He has God Ki since he uses Goku's body,I don't think it's that complicated.

[Grimlock]

SSR was supposed to Black's equivalent of SSB from the very beginning.He has a normal SS state and his version of SSB which is SSR.

It couldn't be his version of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan because Zamasu is a Kaio, therefore he doesn't have god Ki... What is Super Saiyan Rosé then?

[OLKv3]

SSR was supposed to Black's equivalent of SSB from the very beginning.He has a normal SS state and his version of SSB which is SSR.

It couldn't be his version of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan because Zamasu is a Kaio, therefore he doesn't have god Ki... What is Super Saiyan Rosé then?

He doesn't know how to use his normal Ki in Goku's body. When he figures it out, he gets SSR. SSR is his version of SSB, it's pretty much implied last chapter and confirmed this chapter

[MyNiggaGoku]

SSR was supposed to Black's equivalent of SSB from the very beginning.He has a normal SS state and his version of SSB which is SSR.

It couldn't be his version of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan because Zamasu is a Kaio, therefore he doesn't have god Ki... What is Super Saiyan Rosé then?

Yeah my bad because I edited my comment at the last moment and added my explanation...well sort of.Goku's body had access to God Ki thus allowing Zamas to have his own SSB version,SSR.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I'm glad the manga is not rushing the ending but unfortunately the damage has already been done to Goku Black and Zamasu's character for me to even care if the ending is more logical than the anime.

Unfortunately this goes the same for me, but the art will be good!

[The gr]

I'm glad the manga is not rushing the ending but unfortunately the damage has already been done to Goku Black and Zamasu's character for me to even care if the ending is more logical than the anime.

Unfortunately this goes the same for me, but the art will be good!

Thirded they turn goku black into zamasu for Christ sake through there the same person but hey at least zamasu origins make sense and I'm hoping we get to see art/fighting choreography

[MisteryOne]

I'm glad the manga is not rushing the ending but unfortunately the damage has already been done to Goku Black and Zamasu's character for me to even care if the ending is more logical than the anime.

I don't see how Zamasu has been damaged. His development makes him a better stand alone character than the anime version. It's true however that Goku Black has been damaged compared to his awesome anime version. His personality in the manga makes more sense (he's Zamasu after all) but the anime version was more unique.

The ending will definetly be more logical in the manga. The anime version not only had a fucked power scale, but also inconsistency with itself. I doubt Toyotaro will fuck everything as hard as Toei did.

[LightBing]

I can understand preferring Goku Black's anime version than the manga one, I also prefer it except the part where they make him beyond incompetent. But I can't see how just that ruins the whole arc in the manga for some people.
Likewise the same applies in regards to the anime, I don't let the power-scaling and writing problems undermine the good moments it had.

People can't see the forest for the trees.

[Lord Beerus]

I'm glad the manga is not rushing the ending but unfortunately the damage has already been done to Goku Black and Zamasu's character for me to even care if the ending is more logical than the anime.

I don't see how Zamasu has been damaged. His development makes him a better stand alone character than the anime version. It's true however that Goku Black has been damaged compared to his awesome anime version. His personality in the manga makes more sense (he's Zamasu after all) but the anime version was more unique.

The ending will definetly be more logical in the manga. The anime version not only had a fucked power scale, but also inconsistency with itself. I doubt Toyotaro will fuck everything as hard as Toei did.

His development is garbage in the manga. He just gets mad at Goku after watching a few clips of his battle in the Universe 6/Universe 7 arc. There's no confrontation with Goku that help sells the idea that Zamasu hates and distrusts morals or why he resents Goku so much specifically. His motivations are half arsed and superficial as shit. There's no real depth to it.

The treatment of Goku Black is just the worst. First off, he grasps the idiot ball hard when while he was watching over Future Trunks, Supreme Kai, and Kibito battling Babidi and Dabra and he doesn't think to kill Future Trunks after he had finished off Dabra? Seriously, why the hell didn't Goku Black atomise Future Trunks there and then? It would have saved him so much trouble. Then it just got worse with the latest chapter. If Goku Black knows that he can transform into Super Saiyan Rose, then why doesn't he have Zamasu beat him up and Zenkai his way into the form? This makes Black seem incredibly stupid, especially considering that Zamasu can heal him. So he could have done this a long time ago with Zamasu and it would much more safer and efficient. But he didn't. He decided to be a reckless idiot and hope that Vegeta doesn't kill him very quickly or that Zamasu miraculously arrived to save his ass before it was too late. Goku Black fucking sucks in manga.

[OLKv3]

I'm glad the manga is not rushing the ending but unfortunately the damage has already been done to Goku Black and Zamasu's character for me to even care if the ending is more logical than the anime.

I don't see how Zamasu has been damaged. His development makes him a better stand alone character than the anime version. It's true however that Goku Black has been damaged compared to his awesome anime version. His personality in the manga makes more sense (he's Zamasu after all) but the anime version was more unique.

The ending will definetly be more logical in the manga. The anime version not only had a fucked power scale, but also inconsistency with itself. I doubt Toyotaro will fuck everything as hard as Toei did.

His development is garbage in the manga. He just gets mad at Goku after watching a few clips of his battle in the Universe 6/Universe 7 arc. There's no confrontation with Goku that help sells the idea that Zamasu hates and distrusts morals or why he resents Goku so much specifically. His motivations are half arsed and superficial as shit. There's no real depth to it.

The treatment of Goku Black is just the worst. First off, he grasps the idiot ball hard when while he was watching over Future Trunks, Supreme Kai, and Kibito battling Babidi and Dabra and he doesn't think to kill Future Trunks after he had finished off Dabra? Seriously, why the hell didn't Goku Black atomise Future Trunks there and then? It would have saved him so much trouble. Then it just got worse with the latest chapter. If Goku Black knows that he can transform into Super Saiyan Rose, then why doesn't he have Zamasu beat him up and Zenkai his way into the form? This makes Black seem incredibly stupid, especially considering that Zamasu can heal him. So he could have done this a long time ago with Zamasu and it would much more safer and efficient. But he didn't. He decided to be a reckless idiot and hope that Vegeta doesn't kill him very quickly or that Zamasu miraculously arrived to save his ass before it was too late. Goku Black fucking sucks in manga.

He didn't want Future Trunks dead yet. He was using Future Trunks for zenkais. This is shown and explained. He also wasn't strong enough to defeat Trunks at that time. Trunks says he increased his power every time they fought. And wait, you use this to hate manga Black but ignore how somehow Black couldn't wipe out humanity in a year in the anime? The resistance somehow survived Black and Zamasu in the anime, he's just as incompetent there

And don't even get me started on your "why doesn't he have Zamasu hurt him over and over" zenkai complaint, since he's still part Goku and enjoys battle. I can see not liking his personality, but claiming he wasn't just as incompetent in the anime is flat out untrue.

[Gog]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Is that a dwarf?

No. Its true beauty, incarnate, and prehaps the best design that toriyama could ever feasibly make. It also looks Scottish

[Noah]

It couldn't be his version of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan because Zamasu is a Kaio, therefore he doesn't have god Ki... What is Super Saiyan Rosé then?

Nope, Zamasu became a Kaioshin the moment he killed Gowasu and we don't know precisely if Kais possess God Ki or not

I can't see how just that ruins the whole arc in the manga for some people.
Likewise the same applies in regards to the anime, I don't let the power-scaling and writing problems undermine the good moments it had.

People can't see the forest for the trees.

Isn't easy to accept that people don't have the same abstract mind as you?

[MisteryOne]

I can understand preferring Goku Black's anime version than the manga one, I also prefer it except the part where they make him beyond incompetent. But I can't see how just that ruins the whole arc in the manga for some people.
Likewise the same applies in regards to the anime, I don't let the power-scaling and writing problems undermine the good moments it had.

People can't see the forest for the trees.

Well, yeah, excluding the fact that both Zamasus are overwhelmed by smoke granades and they can't kill a group of...like 20 people and two kids.

I am pretty sure the animes had more memorable moments than the manga. Goku Black's first appereance, the «Hakai», the introduction of Rosé, Black telling Goku how he killed him and his family...But the ending was too much for me. And is not just a matter of power scaling, is just common sense. If we have seen Goku Black oneshoting Goku, we can't see Goku overwhelming Merged Zamasu two episodes later. Problems with powerscaling are not a big deal until they hurt the narrative so much as having Black, a SS3-tier, not being able to kill Mai with a Ki blast. The manga has avoided all of that illogical problems showing thag is not something difficult, but at the same time is a bit «meh» regarding memorable moments nd, until this FT arc, it was rushed like hell.Still, the manga vastly outclasses the anime only because of that IMHO. You don't need to make headcanons to explain why Mai survived.

That being said, I am not one of that people who just think one of the versions completely outclash the other. Both of them have extremely big flaws and if you can't see them you have to take your fanboy glasses off. I have seen a hell lot of people who try to somehow explain than the anime surpasses the manga in everything incluying logic (and that's obviously not the case) and viceversea. I have even seen cases where anime fanboys critique the manga without actually reading it, and again, the other way around. It looks like people have thw need to choose one of the two versions above everything like if this was a football or something. I completely agree with you about people not seeing that despite their flaws both versions of Super are enjoyable products, and that the best version would indeed be a combination of the best of both worlds.

(Shit, that was a lot of text. The amount of gramatical mistakes I have made may be over 9000)

I'm glad the manga is not rushing the ending but unfortunately the damage has already been done to Goku Black and Zamasu's character for me to even care if the ending is more logical than the anime.

I don't see how Zamasu has been damaged. His development makes him a better stand alone character than the anime version. It's true however that Goku Black has been damaged compared to his awesome anime version. His personality in the manga makes more sense (he's Zamasu after all) but the anime version was more unique.

The ending will definetly be more logical in the manga. The anime version not only had a fucked power scale, but also inconsistency with itself. I doubt Toyotaro will fuck everything as hard as Toei did.

His development is garbage in the manga. He just gets mad at Goku after watching a few clips of his battle in the Universe 6/Universe 7 arc. There's no confrontation with Goku that help sells the idea that Zamasu hates and distrusts morals or why he resents Goku so much specifically. His motivations are half arsed and superficial as shit. There's no real depth to it.

The treatment of Goku Black is just the worst. First off, he grasps the idiot ball hard when while he was watching over Future Trunks, Supreme Kai, and Kibito battling Babidi and Dabra and he doesn't think to kill Future Trunks after he had finished off Dabra? Seriously, why the hell didn't Goku Black atomise Future Trunks there and then? It would have saved him so much trouble. Then it just got worse with the latest chapter. If Goku Black knows that he can transform into Super Saiyan Rose, then why doesn't he have Zamasu beat him up and Zenkai his way into the form? This makes Black seem incredibly stupid, especially considering that Zamasu can heal him. So he could have done this a long time ago with Zamasu and it would much more safer and efficient. But he didn't. He decided to be a reckless idiot and hope that Vegeta doesn't kill him very quickly or that Zamasu miraculously arrived to save his ass before it was too late. Goku Black fucking sucks in manga.

Seriously, go read the manga again. I am definetly not going to explain again why it makes a hell lot of sense for Zamasu to be mad at Goku, I already did it once in the announcment thread. If you think Zamasu's development is just reduced to seeing random Godtube clips, you have completely ignored
-the Barbari scene which shows that in fact they are not irrationate beings after 1000 years
-the talk that Zamasu had with Gowasu regarding why did he train so hard to become this powerful if he can't do what Hakaishins are only allowed too, which still is done by Goku like if it was normal.
-the whole Majin Boo stuff, which again, leads to the whole «why there are mortals at a level close to the one of Hakaishins, and why are they dealing with stuff that Gods are supposed to?
-as I said, Zamasu is a better stand alone character in the manga. His hatred for Goku is explained in the anime, but at the very same time his hatred for any type of ningen is just pure bullshit which the manga explained. I remind you again, as I already said, that Present Zamasu is NOT Goku Black in the manga. There isn't any nonsensical, imposible paradox here. We still have to see Black's motivations anyway
-neither the anime or tha manga are deep explanations anyway. The manga however showed that Zamasu's hate for mortals is justifiqued, unlike in the anime where he literally just got mad because of Goku surpassing him. Why did all the other ningens had to pay because of Goku's actions? Anime Zamasu was just mad at Goku. Simple as that. But as I said I'm not going to elaborate on evrything again.He xhoosing Goku over Hit made perfect sense.

How on hell would it make sense for Black to archieve Rose by abusing Zenkais? It's a god form, for Zeno's sake. That would be completely bullshit and beyond stupid (just like the anime version, battling a SS2 Goku allows you to become Blue tier in base, and on top of that have a God form. Sure). To become Rosé Black needs to adapt to his body and fight a Super Saiyan Blue. Simple as that. You are completely making up the ability yo archieve Rosé other way.

Have you even read the manga? When he arrived on Earth Black was WAY weaker than Trunks and he even needed to use SS against him. There is nothing suggesting that Black was strong enough to dealt with Trunks back then. Not to mention thet we haVe SEE just TWO chapters ago that Black was letting Trunks alive to become stronger! Seriuosly, why are you ignoring stuff explained in the manga itself? Have you even read it?

It is also interesting that you don't say anything against Black and Zamasu not aniquilating the mankind after defeating Trunks when Goku and Vegeta were away (they were literally drinking tea and talking about a zero ningens plan they could have already done) or the fact that they were surpassed by smoke granades, or that Black was idiot enough to not kill Mai with a ki blast. eriously, how much did he hold against her and why?) yet you are trying to see nonsensical aspects of Goku Black in the manga. Let's not talk about Future Zamasu, who had ZERO development and teamed up with Black without the latter ever explained anything as show in the flashback. He never questionated Black when he killed Gowasu and offered a Pothala. Then again, he didn't kill Present Bulma when he had the chance.

Also, please explain to me how Black is an idiot because of facing Vegeta Blue, but anime Black is not when he travelled to the past, faced Goku ,AND ASKED HIM TO GO FULL POWER. Had Goku gone Blue on that moment, Black would have been destroyed. He was beyond stupid in episode 50.
Man, I really love people double standars. That's why I' m usually around here.

[simtek34]

Kaios have God Ki, How else could North Kaio sense Beerus in Battle of Gods?

[prince212]

I can understand preferring Goku Black's anime version than the manga one, I also prefer it except the part where they make him beyond incompetent. But I can't see how just that ruins the whole arc in the manga for some people.
Likewise the same applies in regards to the anime, I don't let the power-scaling and writing problems undermine the good moments it had.

People can't see the forest for the trees.

Well, yeah, excluding the fact that both Zamasus are overwhelmed by smoke granades and they can't kill a group of...like 20 people and two kids.

I am pretty sure the animes had more memorable moments than the manga. Goku Black's first appereance, the «Hakai», the introduction of Rosé, Black telling Goku how he killed him and his family...But the ending was too much for me. And is not just a matter of power scaling, is just common sense. If we have seen Goku Black oneshoting Goku, we can't see Goku overwhelming Merged Zamasu two episodes later. Problems with powerscaling are not a big deal until they hurt the narrative so much as having Black, a SS3-tier, not being able to kill Mai with a Ki blast. The manga has avoided all of that illogical problems showing thag is not something difficult, but at the same time is a bit «meh» regarding memorable moments nd, until this FT arc, it was rushed like hell.Still, the manga vastly outclasses the anime only because of that IMHO. You don't need to make headcanons to explain why Mai survived.

That being said, I am not one of that people who just think one of the versions completely outclash the other. Both of them have extremely big flaws and if you can't see them you have to take your fanboy glasses off. I have seen a hell lot of people who try to somehow explain than the anime surpasses the manga in everything incluying logic (and that's obviously not the case) and viceversea. I have even seen cases where anime fanboys critique the manga without actually reading it, and again, the other way around. It looks like people have thw need to choose one of the two versions above everything like if this was a football or something. I completely agree with you about people not seeing that despite their flaws both versions of Super are enjoyable products, and that the best version would indeed be a combination of the best of both worlds.

(Shit, that was a lot of text. The amount of gramatical mistakes I have made may be over 9000)

I don't see how Zamasu has been damaged. His development makes him a better stand alone character than the anime version. It's true however that Goku Black has been damaged compared to his awesome anime version. His personality in the manga makes more sense (he's Zamasu after all) but the anime version was more unique.

The ending will definetly be more logical in the manga. The anime version not only had a fucked power scale, but also inconsistency with itself. I doubt Toyotaro will fuck everything as hard as Toei did.

His development is garbage in the manga. He just gets mad at Goku after watching a few clips of his battle in the Universe 6/Universe 7 arc. There's no confrontation with Goku that help sells the idea that Zamasu hates and distrusts morals or why he resents Goku so much specifically. His motivations are half arsed and superficial as shit. There's no real depth to it.

The treatment of Goku Black is just the worst. First off, he grasps the idiot ball hard when while he was watching over Future Trunks, Supreme Kai, and Kibito battling Babidi and Dabra and he doesn't think to kill Future Trunks after he had finished off Dabra? Seriously, why the hell didn't Goku Black atomise Future Trunks there and then? It would have saved him so much trouble. Then it just got worse with the latest chapter. If Goku Black knows that he can transform into Super Saiyan Rose, then why doesn't he have Zamasu beat him up and Zenkai his way into the form? This makes Black seem incredibly stupid, especially considering that Zamasu can heal him. So he could have done this a long time ago with Zamasu and it would much more safer and efficient. But he didn't. He decided to be a reckless idiot and hope that Vegeta doesn't kill him very quickly or that Zamasu miraculously arrived to save his ass before it was too late. Goku Black fucking sucks in manga.

Seriously, go read the manga again. I am definetly not going to explain again why it makes a hell lot of sense for Zamasu to be mad at Goku, I already did it once in the announcment thread. If you think Zamasu's development is just reduced to seeing random Godtube clips, you have completely ignored
-the Barbari scene which shows that in fact they are not irrationate beings after 1000 years
-the talk that Zamasu had with Gowasu regarding why did he train so hard to become this powerful if he can't do what Hakaishins are only allowed too, which still is done by Goku like if it was normal.
-the whole Majin Boo stuff, which again, leads to the whole «why there are mortals at a level close to the one of Hakaishins, and why are they dealing with stuff that Gods are supposed to?
-as I said, Zamasu is a better stand alone character in the manga. His hatred for Goku is explained in the anime, but at the very same time his hatred for any type of ningen is just pure bullshit which the manga explained. I remind you again, as I already said, that Present Zamasu is NOT Goku Black in the manga. There isn't any nonsensical, imposible paradox here. We still have to see Black's motivations anyway
-neither the anime or tha manga are deep explanations anyway. The manga however showed that Zamasu's hate for mortals is justifiqued, unlike in the anime where he literally just got mad because of Goku surpassing him. Why did all the other ningens had to pay because of Goku's actions? Anime Zamasu was just mad at Goku. Simple as that. But as I said I'm not going to elaborate on evrything again.He xhoosing Goku over Hit made perfect sense.

How on hell would it make sense for Black to archieve Rose by abusing Zenkais? It's a god form, for Zeno's sake. That would be completely bullshit and beyond stupid (just like the anime version, battling a SS2 Goku allows you to become Blue tier in base, and on top of that have a God form. Sure). To become Rosé Black needs to adapt to his body and fight a Super Saiyan Blue. Simple as that. You are completely making up the ability yo archieve Rosé other way.

Have you even read the manga? When he arrived on Earth Black was WAY weaker than Trunks and he even needed to use SS against him. There is nothing suggesting that Black was strong enough to dealt with Trunks back then. Not to mention thet we haVe SEE just TWO chapters ago that Black was letting Trunks alive to become stronger! Seriuosly, why are you ignoring stuff explained in the manga itself? Have you even read it?

It is also interesting that you don't say anything against Black and Zamasu not aniquilating the mankind after defeating Trunks when Goku and Vegeta were away (they were literally drinking tea and talking about a zero ningens plan they could have already done) or the fact that they were surpassed by smoke granades, or that Black was idiot enough to not kill Mai with a ki blast. eriously, how much did he hold against her and why?) yet you are trying to see nonsensical aspects of Goku Black in the manga. Let's not talk about Future Zamasu, who had ZERO development and teamed up with Black without the latter ever explained anything as show in the flashback. He never questionated Black when he killed Gowasu and offered a Pothala. Then again, he didn't kill Present Bulma when he had the chance.

Also, please explain to me how Black is an idiot because of facing Vegeta Blue, but anime Black is not when he travelled to the past, faced Goku ,AND ASKED HIM TO GO FULL POWER. Had Goku gone Blue on that moment, Black would have been destroyed. He was beyond stupid in episode 50.
Man, I really love people double standars. That's why I' m usually around here.

men ¡¡ that was well said

[Abra kadabra]

-snip-

Gawwwwwdamn