Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
GokuRules987 wrote:I am curious if were going to see galaxy, universe busting attacks from Goku or Freeza because we all know that the amount of power that both characters would have at that point.
Why? I don't get why fans want to see this stuff? Is it because they can be like "OMG Goku blew up a galaxy with 1% of his power. He can finally beat Superman!!!!". I never got into why fans really want this stuff to happen. DBZ is already strong enough already.
No it's not. It needs to get stronger.
Does anyone remember when you were in school you thought DBZ was the strongest anime there was, and then you grew up and found out they were a mid high tire anime.
Anyone if Cell was to comeback it would make more sense that Dr. Gero had a computer set to collected DNA if Cell was ever defeated. Then they could have Kid Gohan and the CG level Z warriors DNA and just lie and say Goku's wasn't pick up till he and Frieza fight in ROF.
They don't even have to do that if Cell's power came from the saiyan saga Z warriors just getting their CG Dna and then Goku's from when he fights Fat Buu would make Cell scary.
You could say that it did since no new DB series came out after 1997. GT ended with Goku Jr. fighting Vegeta Jr. which could have done a series with a new generation of Z fighters.
I wouldn't say it did. People still to this day want GT content. A franchise killer is something that's so bad, the entire franchise is looked down upon because of it. GT was not even close to that bad.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
I think FnF will be a golden opportunity to explore Freeza's empire. I mean his Freeza's empire effectively create the plot for the movie. I'd love to see how it all began and on top of that, show how Freeza grew up during the empire's rise to prominence. I mean FnF is pretty much Freeza's movie.
That episode was pretty lame, Vegeta brow hair and odd outfit lol and that was after Raditz's death... I'm mean something like the filler that shows they being mocked by Zarbon and Dodoria.
I hope something like that in FnF, not a whole flashback movie for sure... But something that could be very interesting about Freeza's Empire
That's your own personal opinion. GT didn't do so hot compare to DBZ at the time. GT was market as the next big thing in the series since it came out right after DBZ ended and came out on the 10th anniversary of the original DB anime. I think everyone had high hopes for it and it end up being a failure instead.
That's your own personal opinion. GT didn't do so hot compare to DBZ at the time. GT was market as the next big thing in the series since it came out right after DBZ ended and came out on the 10th anniversary of the original DB anime. I think everyone had high hopes for it and it end up being a failure instead.
Like I said a franchise killer is something that pretty much makes the entire series look bad. Something like Sonic 06 was a franchise killer as since then, no one can take that series seriously compared to the 90's. If GT was such a franchise killer, why are we still getting more GT content? Why do people want more GT around if it's such a stain on the franchise. I understand it didn't do as well, but it didn't suddenly make Dragon Ball into such a bad series, that everyone looks down on it because of GT. Did GT lower the quality and outlook of the casual and hardcore fandom of the series? I don't think it did. Did Dragon Ball suddenly become a product of massive ridicule because of GT? I don't think it did. That's what Sonic 06 caused once it bombed. I don't think GT did anything like that. It disappointed at the time, but to this day GT is still wanted to be around. GT if it were so bad and franchise killing, would be swept under the carpet, and hardly ever recognized or acknowledged if it were what you say it is. Yet fan demand seems to want GT around to this day.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Something like Sonic 06 was a franchise killer as since then, no one can take that series seriously compared to the 90's.
Nobody has been able to take that series seriously since SEGA became a third-party company, and the quality and consistency of the main games went to shit. >.>
But yeah, GT isn't a franchise killer. It's its own thing, and it did poorly. But it never impacted the sales or popularity of other DBZ related stuff.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
dbzfan7 wrote:Like I said a franchise killer is something that pretty much makes the entire series look bad. Something like Sonic 06 was...
I agree about GT be far from a franchise killer but Sonic 06 was a pretty good game and I didn't give up playing Sonic after that, I don't get your point by using this game was an argument
Something like Sonic 06 was a franchise killer as since then, no one can take that series seriously compared to the 90's.
Nobody has been able to take that series seriously since SEGA became a third-party company, and the quality and consistency of the main games went to shit. >.>
But yeah, GT isn't a franchise killer. It's its own thing, and it did poorly. But it never impacted the sales or popularity of other DBZ related stuff.
Well 06 was the franchise killer (Not the set up, but death). Hence the guy used to be compared to Super Mario...but now that mere thought is laughed at and for good reason.
I agree. It didn't suddenly make a huge chunk of people laugh off the series and make Dragon Ball a joke of a franchise...which is essentially what blue boy is now a days, a franchise with huge potential, but really shitty results.
Kakarot9001 wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:Like I said a franchise killer is something that pretty much makes the entire series look bad. Something like Sonic 06 was...
I agree about GT be far from a franchise killer but Sonic 06 was a pretty good game and I didn't give up playing Sonic after that, I don't get your point by using this game was an argument
Because no one takes that series seriously anymore since. The credibility of the franchise whether you like it or not, died cause of that game. I like my share of bland or shitty games, but 06 unlike GT here, made the series laughable. I consider myself a fan to a degree, but even I know it's in a horrible state. It went from on the same tier as Super Mario, Mr. Video Game himself, to Bubsy level of mocking.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:why are we still getting more GT content?
For Bandai to milk more toys and cards to be made. GT has it's fans but it's still view as the least popular show in the series and most people still dislike it since the late 90's.
After 1997 and before 2008, the series had no new shows and movies after GT. The DB series lived off of merchandise for a whole decade until we started to get new stuff like Kai and Battle of Gods. With Sonic, Sonic had a few games came out and some of them were good (Colors and Generations). Not to mention Sonic has a new TV series on CN which seems to be popular with younger kids. Franchise killer to me is when they kill a series for good or for a long time. GT fits the bill for a franchise killer if you ask me. The newer DBZ movies seem to slowly retcon GT as well since Toriyama said that Goku won't be going beyond SSj anytime soon and Freeza is much stronger then he was in ROF while still being weak as he was on Namek in GT.
fadeddreams5 wrote:But yeah, GT isn't a franchise killer. It's its own thing, and it did poorly. But it never impacted the sales or popularity of other DBZ related stuff.
It kinda was considering how inactive the franchise was for quite some time (about 5 years). It wasn't 'till DBZ blew up in NA and the release of the first Budokai game in 2002/2003 when the franchise was back on track.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
dbzfan7 wrote:why are we still getting more GT content?
For Bandai to milk more toys and cards to be made. GT has it's fans but it's still view as the least popular show in the series and most people still dislike it since the late 90's.
After 1997 and before 2008, the series had no new shows and movies after GT. The DB series lived off of merchandise for a whole decade until we started to get new stuff like Kai and Battle of Gods. With Sonic, Sonic had a few games came out and some of them were good (Colors and Generations). Not to mention Sonic has a new TV series on CN which seems to be popular with younger kids. Franchise killer to me is when they kill a series for good or for a long time. GT fits the bill for a franchise killer if you ask me. The newer DBZ movies seem to slowly retcon GT as well since Toriyama said that Goku won't be going beyond SSj anytime soon and Freeza is much stronger then he was in ROF while still being weak as he was on Namek in GT.
I kinda see what you mean. I just don't quite see eye to eye since the series itself wasn't tarnished and then suddenly the laughing stock of the anime/manga world. Even during that drought period, Dragon Ball itself didn't become less iconic. It still standed as a pioneer and iconic series through and through. Sonic on the other hand as a series, has fallen passed its glory, and is literally far less than what it once was. From Super Mario Tier to just managing to not quite fall into shovel ware (Even if the new series is practically shovel ware and does nothing interesting at all). GT is still wanted which to me, is odd if the series was such a franchise killer, it'd be swept under the carpet. Perhaps interest in GT perked up sometime later.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
VegettoEX wrote:If you're not talking about the movie, you're in the wrong topic!
Thank you...!
Sorry. I'll cut it out.
Anyways do you think we'll get an explanation for how things of changed? I'd like to know why Krillin became a police officer. I don't want it just to be "Because he did" as then the role doesn't really feel anything special. Especially since if that were the case, he could be a doctor, or wrestler, or tavern owner the next second.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
VegettoEX wrote:If you're not talking about the movie, you're in the wrong topic!
Thank you...!
Sorry. I'll cut it out.
Anyways do you think we'll get an explanation for how things of changed? I'd like to know why Krillin became a police officer. I don't want it just to be "Because he did" as then the role doesn't really feel anything special. Especially since if that were the case, he could be a doctor, or wrestler, or tavern owner the next second.
VegettoEX wrote:If you're not talking about the movie, you're in the wrong topic!
Thank you...!
Sorry. I'll cut it out.
Anyways do you think we'll get an explanation for how things of changed? I'd like to know why Krillin became a police officer. I don't want it just to be "Because he did" as then the role doesn't really feel anything special. Especially since if that were the case, he could be a doctor, or wrestler, or tavern owner the next second.
Why the f*ck he shaved his head again?
In the character bios it's said that 18 shaves his head because he wants to take fighting seriously again.
You could say that it did since no new DB series came out after 1997. GT ended with Goku Jr. fighting Vegeta Jr. which could have done a series with a new generation of Z fighters.
It "killed" the anime franchise for the little while (15 years?) but the franchise did not die to to other stuff like games, toys, commercials, cameos, and worldwide popularity.
At least in Japan, it killed the entire franchise.
GokuRules987 wrote:
I WANT TO SEE SOMETHING NEW THAT WE NEVER GOT TO SEE BEFORE IN DRAGON BALL.
A villain training to beat the good guy - its new, not only to the series but to shounen genre overall.
Vegeta training under a master and have Goku as classmate - New.
Both Goku and Vegeta have new outfits - First time that happens in a movie too.
You already have three so far.
If Vegeta beats the main villain, it will be another new thing. But your wish has already been granted.
*Shenlong leaves*
Ofcourse I know about that but its not what I mean. I am talking about the fighting in which the only time it seriously evolved was after 22nd budokai goku match and all the way up too Frieza saga where characters started mixing martial arts with ki blasts and later even transformations like frieza transformation, super saiyan transformations etc.
After Frieza saga everything was about fist fighting, ki blasts, transformations and most important having more ki. I have no problem with that only if it remained consistent. I was really upset after seeing how nerfed characters in there were, super saiyans should be cosmic level beings, their casual blasts should be able to destroy planets and yet they couldn't beat android 17, 18 because for some reason none of their attacks were powerful enough to atleast level entire continent if not entire planet?
Thats why i didnt like the future Gohan/Trunks saga not because of the storyline but because the fights overal just felt very weak. Why would Gohan hold back so much of his power where he could just blow up the planet with the androids, and then if he lives or dies goes to king kai and tells him to send a message to those other Namekians that live on the other planet and so that they could wish earth back and revive Dende so that he could wish the earthling back.
I am just tired of seeing characters constantly getting their ass kicked while holding back all the manga feats that prove mathematically that they should be able to do more than that like being able to destroy solar systems at this point and not just make small craters on earth. And In this new dragon ball fukatsu no F movie, I want Goku to go all out on Frieza and no more holding back, during their fight i want them too atleast destroy a galaxy at some point of the movie. I just really hope Toriyama is reading this or atleast someone who can tell him this please!!!
