Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Dyno]

A pamphlet for RoF said it takes place two years after BoG

What and where is this pamphlet?

[Retan]

1

I probably need to re-watch the special, but I don't think they're described as actually leading anybody. They just seem to be doing everything on their own. And like you said, they're presumably out of the picture following the events of the special either way.

On the other hand, I did totally forget that Sorbet is described as leading Freeza's forces following Freeza's death. But while I'm sure he has excellent administrative skills, his leadership probably doesn't rally the troops quite as much as having the most powerful being in the universe calling the shots.

They didn't describe them as the leaders, but I imagined they took over once news of Freeza demise became known. I mean why not? They are the only people strong enough to take the position and at Freeza level no one could challenge them so i just assume they ran things until the ran into Tarble and the rest is history. That's why I'm curious Sorbet and Tagoma didn't seek those two out since the biggest problem was they didn't have the man power to attack planets that were too strong forcing them to retreat. That's were Abo and Cado come in, they got the power level to lead the organization to victory. Tagoma was hesitant about reviving Freeza while Abo and Cado seemed like some pretty cool guys compared to Freeza's tyrant ways so it wasn't like Freeza was well liked by everyone.

I will never understand why a villain being able to return and get insanely strong is so hard to imagine when our heroes do it all the time, sometimes multiple times in one story arc.

Villains usually don't do that, nor do the have the tools and benefits that our heroes do.

And? Honestly that's always been one of the series' faults really, is when it started to go into this route of 'only Saiyans matter' anyway. Anything that can shake that scenario up can not be 100% a bad thing.

That's because only Saiyajins did matter, even Vegeta said this during the Cell arc. Toiryama was the one that wrote them being this invincible race, too late to backtrack now.

Trunks was a 12 years old kid in BoG, and now he will be around 13-15 (depending on how much time has passed since BoG), meaning he's gonna be a teenager in FnF. And we know that Trunks' growth isn't like that of the full-blooded Saiyans, since we've seen 14 year old Trunks in the future. So, Goten & Trunks should change in this movie, if it's more than a year after BoG.

A pamphlet for RoF said it takes place two years after BoGs, so Trunks should be 14 and look like he did during History of Trunks special meaning Goten should equally look like that so the dynamic between them doesn't change.

1. I believe Herms is correct, and no your just making stuff up and assuming.

2. Freeza the ruler of the universe, doesn't have the benefits, or tools of Goku of Earth?

3. Freeza isn't a part of a race, it's him and his father, and there Mutants. Also Toriyama, not you, can do whatever he wants with the series and characters.

[lord turbo]

A pamphlet for RoF said it takes place two years after BoG

What and where is this pamphlet?

Way earlier in this thread someone posted screenshots of it.

[Sedorna]

They didn't describe them as the leaders, but I imagined they took over once news of Freeza demise became known. I mean why not? They are the only people strong enough to take the position and at Freeza level no one could challenge them so i just assume they ran things until the ran into Tarble and the rest is history.

Being strong does necessarily correlate to being in charge. After all, Taio Pai Pai was way stronger than Commander Red, yet it was Commander Red who was in charge of the Red Ribbon Army. Taio Pai Pai's strength lay in assassinations, and not leading an army.

[Saiga]

Well, it should be pretty clear. He's claiming that minimal training will be enough to outstrip all of the training and power ups that the heroes did over the course of two major story arcs.

The heroes had a long established history of doing that kind of thing. Freeza doesn't, any explanations given are provided entirely by the new material, and he'd be outdoing the ones known for their incredible increases.

That's just it though - he's claiming. There's no proof as of yet that his claims are actually true. Maybe he trains for four months and realizes it's not enough, and something else happens. We don't know yet.

The more I think about it, the more true I find an earlier statement someone made about the real problem a lot of people have is their head-canon is being threatened after all of these years of no new material.

And there's not much point in pointing out that's his claim. I'm talking about if that ends up being true, which is completely fair when the story has put that idea forward. Although even him claiming it has problems, if it is wrong, as people have already pointed out with him never training when he seems to believe it'd solve basically all of his problems. But that's a separate thing.

I'm talking about why that would be bad, if true. That's different from just complaining about him mentioning it at all.

I find that statement pretty unfair. Calling it something like head canon is just dismissing how people interpreted the series. And let's be real here, the new material outright contradicts and changes old material, Toriyama outright says so at times.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Thanks for the image Dyno, but it's not linking right. Besides, best not to push your luck with posting pages and such anyway, ya know? I did find my own copy however...and have accordingly made a new avatar from it.

I will never understand why a villain being able to return and get insanely strong is so hard to imagine when our heroes do it all the time, sometimes multiple times in one story arc.

Villains usually don't do that, nor do the have the tools and benefits that our heroes do.

And that's exactly why it happening now is something 'unexpected', and if there's one thing Toriyama does well, it's the unexpected. The man is a master at keeping us on our toes.

And? Honestly that's always been one of the series' faults really, is when it started to go into this route of 'only Saiyans matter' anyway. Anything that can shake that scenario up can not be 100% a bad thing.

That's because only Saiyajins did matter, even Vegeta said this during the Cell arc. Toiryama was the one that wrote them being this invincible race, too late to backtrack now.

Well, for one thing, Vegeta makes it a habit to toot his own horn, so why take his words seriously there? And again, because the series has always done this, it's all the more reason for them to finally buck the trend again.

Though really, even this story seems to adhere to the 'only Saiyans matter' thing a little bit, since none of our other heroes will likely be catching up in power anytime soon. The only hope for a little bit of non-Saiyan glory in a fight is gonna be from Beerus and Whis.

[Herms]

A pamphlet for RoF said it takes place two years after BoG

What and where is this pamphlet?

Way earlier in this thread someone posted screenshots of it.

That pamphlet was merely describing the fact that RoF is being made and released roughly two years after BoG, here in the real world. It had nothing to do with when the movie is set in regards to the chronology of the DB universe.

(Of course, the movie could turn out to actually be set about two years after the events of BoG as well. It's a fairly plausible time frame, given the details we know so far. There's just not been any official word so far.)

Being strong does necessarily correlate to being in charge. After all, Tao Pai Pai was way stronger than Commander Red, yet it was Commander Red who was in charge of the Red Ribbon Army. Tao Pai Pai's strength lay in assassinations, and not leading an army.

Also, to be really nitpicky, Tao Pai Pai wasn't actually a member of the Red Ribbon Army. He was just a hired gun Red only brought in at the very end, after every actual member of the army had proved unable to handle Goku.

[Dyno]

That pamphlet was merely describing the fact that RoF is being made and released roughly two years after BoG, here in the real world. It had nothing to do with when the movie is set in regards to the chronology of the DB universe.

As I thought... Thank you, Herms.

[Gyt Kaliba]

And there's not much point in pointing out that's his claim. I'm talking about if that ends up being true, which is completely fair when the story has put that idea forward. Although even him claiming it has problems, if it is wrong, as people have already pointed out with him never training when he seems to believe it'd solve basically all of his problems. But that's a separate thing.

I'm talking about why that would be bad, if true. That's different from just complaining about him mentioning it at all.

I find that statement pretty unfair. Calling it something like head canon is just dismissing how people interpreted the series. And let's be real here, the new material outright contradicts and changes old material, Toriyama outright says so at times.

I point out that it's only his claim because it keep sounding like people are already taking it as an absolute fact. If we were to take everything any character has ever said about their own strength/potential as fact, then...I don't even have a way to finish this statement because the mind boggles at how insane it would be. Vegeta alone would cause the universe to crumble if his ego from earlier one really was deserved.

I'm not remembering any contradictions so huge that they can't be worked around, but I admit, my memory is pretty shoddy. Regardless though, I don't see why new material making passing changes to old material is a bad thing in-of-itself so long as it ends up working out and expands things. The original story, as awesome as it is, isn't some holy writ that should never be tinkered with, especially not when we're talking about by the original author. Besides - things like the Androids showing up and being super strong, far stronger than Freeza, was a change to the previously stated material that Freeza was the strongest villain in the galaxy. As was Freeza's very existence being a major change to Vegeta's previous boasts about how he was the strongest in the universe. Are these things just exempt because they're from the story as told twenty plus years ago, because other than that I'm not seeing much difference.

[lord turbo]

1. I believe Herms is correct, and no your just making stuff up and assuming.

2. Freeza the ruler of the universe, doesn't have the benefits, or tools of Goku of Earth?

3. Freeza isn't a part of a race, it's him and his father, and there Mutants. Also Toriyama, not you, can do whatever he wants with the series and characters.

1. The Abo and Cado? That was mistake since its been a while since I watched that special. That's why in my last post after rewatching those scenes I said I'm assuming.
2. Freeza doesn't have what Goku had nor his benefits exclusive to him...
3. I wasn't talking about Freeza, I was talking about the Saiyajins when I said invincible race. The rest of what you said just came off rather defensive. Am I not allowed to constructively criticized Toriyama's choice just because he's the creator?

Being strong does necessarily correlate to being in charge. After all, Taio Pai Pai was way stronger than Commander Red, yet it was Commander Red who was in charge of the Red Ribbon Army. Taio Pai Pai's strength lay in assassinations, and not leading an army.

Tao Pai Pai had no interest in the Red Ribbon Army, he was literally a thug for hired. Abo and Cado were listed in Freeza's army and became strong enough to rival him later on. There's a void left in seizing the throne since Freeza's demise and the organization needs the man power to function better, why not these two who seem capable from what we saw in the Tarble Special?

And that's exactly why it happening now is something 'unexpected', and if there's one thing Toriyama does well, it's the unexpected. The man is a master at keeping us on our toes.

I did mention usually, don't forget Piccolo has already done this.

Well, for one thing, Vegeta makes it a habit to toot his own horn, so why take his words seriously there? And again, because the series has always done this, it's all the more reason for them to finally buck the trend again.

This is true, but he's not wrong in the least bit here. No one who wasn't Saiyajin has ever mattered since Radiz showed up. That's why only Saiyajin related characters are important in these movies while everyone else get grunt work duty, though there is hope for Whis and Beerus doing something, but something about them says they may very well just sit on the sidelines and observe the events unfold for whatever reason and not do much if anything at all. Just the kind of vibe I get from them.

That pamphlet was merely describing the fact that RoF is being made and released roughly two years after BoG, here in the real world. It had nothing to do with when the movie is set in regards to the chronology of the DB universe.

So another mistranslation thing again?

[RandomGuy96]

Freeza is a mutant that is so insanely strong since birth & has never trained in his entire life

The manga says no.

[Saiga]

I point out that it's only his claim because it keep sounding like people are already taking it as an absolute fact. If we were to take everything any character has ever said about their own strength/potential as fact, then...I don't even have a way to finish this statement because the mind boggles at how insane it would be. Vegeta alone would cause the universe to crumble if his ego from earlier one really was deserved.

I'm aware, but it's a rather meaningless thing to point out. If it ends up being wrong, fine. That still means people can not like the sound of it, or think it'd make for a bad idea if it's actually used that way.

I also feel it's disingenuous to compare it to something like Vegeta boasting. This movie is about Freeza becoming strong enough to be a threat, I feel it's quite likely to assume his boasts can be taken as fact since that is setting up him being stronger. It seems way too specific to be some random boast.

But, either way, it doesn't really matter that so far we don't know if it will be true or not. That's not what I'm focused on.

I'm not remembering any contradictions so huge that they can't be worked around, but I admit, my memory is pretty shoddy. Regardless though, I don't see why new material making passing changes to old material is a bad thing in-of-itself so long as it ends up working out and expands things. The original story, as awesome as it is, isn't some holy writ that should never be tinkered with, especially not when we're talking about by the original author. Besides - things like the Androids showing up and being super strong, far stronger than Freeza, was a change to the previously stated material that Freeza was the strongest villain in the galaxy. As was Freeza's very existence being a major change to Vegeta's previous boasts about how he was the strongest in the universe. Are these things just exempt because they're from the story as told twenty plus years ago, because other than that I'm not seeing much difference.

Yeah, but the issue I have is that I find the new material worse than the older material it is replacing. It's really hard to justify any retcons that make things worse.

I am not content with "well, you can come up with your own explanations". I could come up with an explanation for even the largest plot holes, that doesn't make them right. It bothers me that a lot of these changes could easily be avoided, but no-one seems to care enough to make it so.

[Avenged]

A pamphlet for RoF said it takes place two years after BoG

What and where is this pamphlet?

This

Two years seems bout right, actually figured sooner.

[Dyno]

It would actually contradict Bulma's statement, taking place two years (780) they will pass four years without seeing each other instead of five.

But as Herms already said:

"That pamphlet was merely describing the fact that RoF is being made and released roughly two years after BoG, here in the real world. It had nothing to do with when the movie is set in regards to the chronology of the DB universe."

[Retan]

Speaking of Herms, looks like the Blog has been updated, I'm sure Herms, and Vegetto EX are on top of it already.

[Sedorna]

I also feel it's disingenuous to compare it to something like Vegeta boasting. This movie is about Freeza becoming strong enough to be a threat, I feel it's quite likely to assume his boasts can be taken as fact since that is setting up him being stronger. It seems way too specific to be some random boast.

But Vegeta had some very specific boasts as well. On Namek, after Dende had healed the hole that Kuririn had blasted in his chest, Vegeta straight up told Freeza that he, Vegeta, was now an honest to goodness for realsies Super Saiyan. Spoiler: he wasn't.

Also, for such a specific statement, it was rather vague. His training is supposed to be four months, which I'm assuming are Earth months, but an evil galactic overlord does not have to use the timekeeping mechanisms of a silly, backwater planet. Also, what, precisely does his training involve? Push-ups, sit-ups, and plenty of juice? His own version of the ROSAT? A magical training doohickey that allows him yo increase his power immensely ? Watching episodes of Jem and the Holograms and writing a lengthy dissertation about how the Misfits were clearly the superior band? We don't know.

Incidentally, I feel that the Freeza starts to train would have gone over better if he mentioned that while in hell he discovered that a magical training doohickey existed and he was going to train with that. That way, it wouldn't be o much that he had never trained, but rather that he had never trained with that specific method before.

[sintzu]

What kind of antagonist was everyone hoping to see? I wanted a reality-warper.

After Toriyama said he wanted Vegeta to be the hero I wanted someone from his past and who we got was way more then I was expecting which shows that Toriyama still knows how to write Db.

Speaking of Herms, looks like the Blog has been updated.

Who's on it today ?

[Retan]

What kind of antagonist was everyone hoping to see? I wanted a reality-warper.

After Toriyama said he wanted Vegeta to be the hero I wanted someone from his past and who we got was way more then I was expecting which shows that Toriyama still knows how to write Db.

Speaking of Herms, looks like the Blog has been updated.

Who's on it today ?

.... Doesn't look like anyone but Bulma commentary, does sound like there done with the voice actors though, but I'm probably wrong on that.

[sintzu]

Does sound like there done with the voice actors though, but I'm probably wrong on that.

I don't think they did Vegeta,Krillin,Beerus and Whis's voices yet.

[Retan]

I meant for the movie not the blog.