How come they didn't bring Gohan to fight Kid Buu?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

So personal attacks and condesending remarks are ok with comments like
"Yeah AmuroRay you seriously need to think before posting"
And
"I won't even bother to argue about this with you anymore."

but making a logical argument is not? If you don't feel my sarcasm was acceptable in the context of the statement, so be it, but I don't think it was as rude as the other two.

I wasn't attacking you, it's just the fact that we have already argued about this, and you kept "proving"your point by ignoring the statements that disprove your point, not to mention the fact that your sources are the terrible scanlations, while I use direct translations by Herms, one of the guys who run this site, and even lived in Japan for a period of his life.

[Hitiro]

What of Freeza? He couldn't stop the thing and Goku's stamina was completely used up. Hell Freeza even lived. The idea that Goku needs to put force behind it to kill his opponent is completely contradicted by Freeza. Again Goku likely put his energy into the bomb. Oh please don't bring up the Battle power argument. The Genki Drama was fueled by Gohan's Genki so it's as strong as it needs to be.

Obviously Goku had enough energy to force the Spirit Bomb at that time. Goku was injured but he still had ki reserves left. In the fight against Pure Boo SSJ3 sucked up ALL of his energy. And as for the "Genki Dama was fueled by Gohan's Genki" it just proves that the Genki of every human on on Earth > Gohan's Genki. As from the statement from Goku saying its no where near enough to take out Pure Boo when he only received Genki from Gohan and his friends. Vegeta also seems confident that a Genki Dama formed from the Earthlings would be more than enough so its clear Nobodies battle power in the series is more than the sum of the Earths entire population going on Genki alone.

[Amuro Ray]

"Herms" translation isn't more accurate because you think so - does someone have access to VIZ to confirm? And if you think my post are incorrect/inaccurate in any way, feel free to post "Herms" translation in rebuttal (for the sake of comparison.)

[dbzfan7]

"Herms" translation isn't more accurate because you think so - does someone have access to VIZ to confirm? And if you think my post are incorrect/inaccurate in any way, feel free to post "Herms" translation in rebuttal (for the sake of comparison.)

Your welcome

Here is a comparison he did up to volume 5 of DB.

Herms is one of the sites main translators. Up top he has a thread of massive information he translated from Japanese. He is much more reliable then internet scans. Its also against forum rules to post those terrible scans you use anyways. You can ask anyone here to tell you that he is much more reliable then the VIZ scans, or terrible internet translators seen on manga websites.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

"Herms" translation isn't more accurate because you think so - does someone have access to VIZ to confirm? And if you think my post are incorrect/inaccurate in any way, feel free to post "Herms" translation in rebuttal (for the sake of comparison.)

Herms is a person, and has done a huge work for the fanbase. It's true that I can't confirm myself if his translations are accurate, because I don't know shit about Japanese, but I can compare the translated (by Herms) lines from the manga with the FUNi subs of the anime (which are accurate translations by professionals), so the statements are correct. I've already made a post in this thread. The quotes are lines that Herms translated (more in this guide.

Herms is one of the sites main translators. Up top he has a thread of massive information he translated from Japanese. He is much more reliable then internet scans. Its also against forum rules to post those terrible scans anyways.

Not to mention that it's obvious that the translators of the scanlations obviously aren't that good in Japanese (or whatever language they translated it from), since there are many obviously inaccurate lines, and even untranslated speech bubbles.

[dbzfan7]

Not to mention that it's obvious that the translators of the scanlations obviously aren't that good in Japanese (or whatever language they translated it from), since there are many obviously inaccurate lines, and even untranslated speech bubbles.

Exactly. Many speech bubbles are left empty in the online scans. Herms pretty much created the ultimate guide for in-universe debates.

[Amuro Ray]

"Herms" translation isn't more accurate because you think so - does someone have access to VIZ to confirm? And if you think my post are incorrect/inaccurate in any way, feel free to post "Herms" translation in rebuttal (for the sake of comparison.)

Your welcome

Here is a comparison he did up to volume 5 of DB.

Herms is one of the sites main translators. Up top he has a thread of massive information he translated from Japanese. He is much more reliable then internet scans. Its also against forum rules to post those terrible scans you use anyways. You can ask anyone here to tell you that he is much more reliable then the VIZ scans, or terrible internet translators seen on manga websites.

I asked specifically to what I posted - I'm not doubting there are some inaccuracies, but why do we assume Herms is more accurate (translation on any stage is difficult, so kudos to whoever did the WHOLE manga) or assume that the same person translated the whole manga single handedly.

What I posted (and a few other members here) has yet to be refuted by any translation or Media (anime or manga.) and if you disagree, then it's time to have an arguement on facts, and stop attacking the source.

[dbzfan7]

"Herms" translation isn't more accurate because you think so - does someone have access to VIZ to confirm? And if you think my post are incorrect/inaccurate in any way, feel free to post "Herms" translation in rebuttal (for the sake of comparison.)

Your welcome

Here is a comparison he did up to volume 5 of DB.

Herms is one of the sites main translators. Up top he has a thread of massive information he translated from Japanese. He is much more reliable then internet scans. Its also against forum rules to post those terrible scans you use anyways. You can ask anyone here to tell you that he is much more reliable then the VIZ scans, or terrible internet translators seen on manga websites.

I asked specifically to what I posted - I'm not doubting there are some inaccuracies, but why do we assume Herms is more accurate (translation on any stage is difficult, so kudos to whoever did the WHOLE manga) or assume that the same person translated the whole manga single handedly.

What I posted (and a few other members here) has yet to be refuted by any translation or Media (anime or manga.) and if you disagree, then it's time to have an arguement on facts, and stop attacking the source as he is a member of the forum.

If you really put your trust in online scans where they have notoriously blanked out speech bubbles, Its a safe bet they ain't accurate and your hurting your argument. You can ask herms yourself if you want to hear from the source.

PM him right here and see if you get an answer.

[Bussani]

"Herms" translation isn't more accurate because you think so - does someone have access to VIZ to confirm?

Well, I have all of the Viz manga, but Herms's translations are overall more accurate than those are, so that won't confirm much. Steve Simmons's subtitles for the season sets and Dragon Boxes are closer to Herms's, except that the translations for the Strength Checker were purposely more literal so they could be scrutinized in these discussions.

I suppose the only way for you to be 100% sure of their accuracy is to learn some Japanese for yourself (or maybe to find a native Japanese speaker with good English who could confirm it for you--assuming you could trust them), but you'll at least have to accept that just about everyone else here trusts them and the other translations provided by Kanzenshuu's Japanese speaking staff members.

Yes, Vegeta and Goku would let the whole universe be destroyed rather than have someone who is obviously superior like Gohan (note the sarcasm) would could easily beat Buu.

They also turned down the idea of using Vegetto again because they thought fighting as they were would be better, so it's not like they were doing everything in their power to save the universe.

Edit:

I asked specifically to what I posted

Check the Strength Checker. It contains accurate translations of pretty much every comment on a character's power in the entire manga.

[Amuro Ray]

If you really put your trust in online scans where they have notoriously blanked out speech bubbles, Its a safe bet they ain't accurate and your hurting your argument. You can ask herms yourself if you want to hear from the source.

Once more (and I'm trying to not be rude) I'm worried about the facts and context. I'll conceed that they are inaccurate, but does what they "say" change the substance of my arguement? Can we get back to the discussion?

[Amuro Ray]

"Herms" translation isn't more accurate because you think so - does someone have access to VIZ to confirm?

Well, I have all of the Viz manga, but Herms's translations are overall more accurate than those are, so that won't confirm much. Steve Simmons's subtitles for the season sets and Dragon Boxes are closer to Herms's, except that the translations for the Strength Checker were purposely more literal so they could be scrutinized in these discussions.


I suppose the only way for you to be 100% sure of their accuracy is to learn some Japanese for yourself (or maybe to find a native Japanese speaker with good English who could confirm it for you--assuming you could trust them), but you'll at least have to accept that just about everyone else here trusts them and the other translations provided by Kanzenshuu's Japanese speaking staff members.

Yes, Vegeta and Goku would let the whole universe be destroyed rather than have someone who is obviously superior like Gohan (note the sarcasm) would could easily beat Buu.

They also turned down the idea of using Vegetto again because they thought fighting as they were would be better, so it's not like they were doing everything in their power to save the universe.

Enough.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Jut compare the lines translated by Herms, the lines from the scanlations, and the lines from the English subs from the FUNi products (which are done by professionals). That's a good way to check if Herms' translations are accurate.

[dbzfan7]

If you really put your trust in online scans where they have notoriously blanked out speech bubbles, Its a safe bet they ain't accurate and your hurting your argument. You can ask herms yourself if you want to hear from the source.

Once more (and I'm trying to not be rude) I'm worried about the facts and context. I'll conceed that they are inaccurate, but does what they "say" change the substance of my arguement? Can we get back to the discussion?

Sorry if I mislead you by saying "hurting your argument". I meant to say the inaccurate translations could potentially hurt your argument when compared to the accurate ones as things might be said differently.

They also turned down the idea of using Vegetto again because they thought fighting as they were would be better, so it's not like they were doing everything in their power to save the universe.

Exactly, they wanted to save the universe by fighting like they normally would as they believed they could beat Kid Boo without the Potara.

[Darkprince410]

Once more (and I'm trying to not be rude) I'm worried about the facts and context. I'll conceed that they are inaccurate, but does what they "say" change the substance of my arguement? Can we get back to the discussion?

Well, one of the notable things I can point out that you and I have debated on recently was the manga establishing whether or not the whole "Buff" Buu transformation was a result of Pure Buu absorbing South Kaioushin. You said that there was no evidence of that because the scanslation has Rou Kaioushin asking if absorbing the South Kaioushin was how he became the Fat Buu.

Kibitoshin - The first 2, the Northern and Western Kaioushin were killed outright. But the strongest of us all...the Southern Kaioushin, was absorbed by Buu.
Rou Kaioushin - Is that how he became the fat Buu?
Kibitoshin - No

Whereas in the original manga, as I pointed out, it's clearly indicated that it was because he absorbed South Kaioushin that he attained that form.

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P4.3-4
Context: Kaioshin explains Boo's history
Kaioshin: “…First, two [Kaioshins] were killed…the North Kaioshin and the West Kaioshin….And then the South Kaioshin, the burliest and strongest one, was…somehow absorbed by Boo…..”
Elder Kaioshin: …And he become that huge Boo from before?“
Kaioshin: “…Yes……”

Or Goku talking about why he can't really do anything to Pure Buu while fighting him.

The scanslation

Goku - Damn it! No matter how much I do to him, he never gets any weaker. He just comes back, good as new.

The original translation

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P12.1
Context: after Goku fights pure Boo for awhile
Goku: “…Dammit…! Like I thought, even if I keep doing the same thing, that bastard’s stamina doesn’t fall…! He just returns to being good as new right away…”

The scanslation omits that it's specifically Buu's stamina Goku is having a hard time against. In leaving that out, it's open to interpretation that Goku is physically weaker than him, whereas in reality it's just the stamina that's the issue.

The scanslations have a number of errors like the aforementioned ones that, while they might seem small, really change how events in the manga should be analyzed.

[Bussani]

Enough.

Are you just tired of being told that Herms's translations are more accurate? Okay--I can understand that. You've probably heard it enough times already, and I don't mean to try to beat you over the head with it. But the point I was trying to make is that comparing it to Viz isn't going to confirm anything for anyone since everyone's already got an opinion on the Viz translation as well.

I believe what you've asked for and no one has provided yet is an example of why those scanlations aren't very reliable (Edit: why did I say this? People did provide examples already. Herp). Take the page where they're explaining how Buu absorbed the Kaioshin: in the scanlation, after explaining that South Kaioshin was absorbed, the old Kaioshin asks if that's how Buu became "the fat one", and the younger Kaioshin replies that it isn't. This is contradicted not only by Herms's translations, but Viz's and FUNimations as well: in the original dialogue, the old Kaioshin asks if that's how Buu became the big, muscular form, and the young Kaioshin replies that it was.

Does this change your interpretation of the scene, or make your way of looking at it wrong? Not necessarily. This page doesn't prove that Evil Buu was more powerful than Pure Buu or vice versa. But if we are going to scrutinize these lines of dialogue to the level we are here, and talk about what we think is and isn't implied, then don't you think we should be using translations that don't change whole panels of dialogue for no reason? I mean, if you just look at it on the surface, changing it from "is that how he became the muscular one? yes" to "is that how he became the fat one? no" doesn't make much of a difference, but it's lots of little difference like this that add up and can affect a person's interpretation of the story. I think we've seen a lot of examples of that over the last few pages where someone has pointed out a line of dialogue from one translation that you disagree with (for example, Vegeta saying that Buu intended to undergo another transformation after he'd become the muscular Buu with the large ki).

Edit: I think Darkprince410 put this better than I did.

[Amuro Ray]

Enough.

Are you just tired of being told that Herms's translations are more accurate? Okay--I can understand that. You've probably heard it enough times already, and I don't mean to try to beat you over the head with it. But the point I was trying to make is that comparing it to Viz isn't going to confirm anything for anyone since everyone's already got an opinion on the Viz translation as well.

I believe what you've asked for and no one has provided yet is an example of why those scanlations aren't very reliable. Take the page where they're explaining how Buu absorbed the Kaioshin: in the scanlation, after explaining that South Kaioshin was absorbed, the old Kaioshin asks if that's how Buu became "the fat one", and the younger Kaioshin replies that it isn't. This is contradicted not only by Herms's translations, but Viz's and FUNimations as well: in the original dialogue, the old Kaioshin asks if that's how Buu became the big, muscular form, and the young Kaioshin replies that it was.

Does this change your interpretation of the scene, or make your way of looking at it wrong? Not necessarily. This page doesn't prove that Evil Buu was more powerful than Pure Buu or vice versa. But if we are going to scrutinize these lines of dialogue to the level we are here, and talk about what we think is and isn't implied, then don't you think we should be using translations that don't change whole panels of dialogue for no reason? I mean, if you just look at it on the surface, changing it from "is that how he became the muscular one? yes" to "is that how he became the fat one? no" doesn't make much of a difference, but it's lots of little difference like this that add up and can affect a person's interpretation of the story. I think we've seen a lot of examples of that over the last few pages where someone has pointed out a line of dialogue from one translation that you disagree with (for example, Vegeta saying that Buu intended to undergo another transformation after he'd become the muscular Buu with the large ki).

Edit: I think Darkprince410 put this better than I did.

Fair.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

So... you still believe that Pure Boo is stronger?

[MarcFBR]

Fair.

Post properly or don't post at all. You agreed to the rules which said not to make this type of post.

[Amuro Ray]

Fair.

Post properly or don't post at all. You agreed to the rules which said not to make this type of post.

I'm not sure I understand - I agreed with him, where is the problem?

[Amuro Ray]

So... you still believe that Pure Boo is stronger?

Absolutely, nothing there implies that he is weaker.