Would Z have been as successful on US TV if JPN BGM was kept

[sangofe]

The real question is: Would it have been as popular everywhere else had the Funimation track been the original score used from the beginning?

It would've been less popular.

[LuckyCat]

Interesting discussion. I think the success of the music really depended on the ability to place it correctly. Like people have mentioned, they cut out so many scenes and changed dialogue, a bad placement of Kikuchi's tracks could've easily occurred.

I think the franchise would've been fine either way, but Kikuchi's music would be either "remembered fondly" or "horribly used" depending on how FUNimation handled it.

[sangofe]

French Vegeta has really horrible voice.

Oh, really? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gewwo8iLXcY Sorry, I had to reply to that comment.

[Bardo117]

Hell no, plain and simple the American BGM made the show badass as compared to the Original BGM,

[GS7X7]

"THIS is what you think is a piece of music superior to the original? Not the Negaverse theme? Not My Only Love, The Power Of Love, Rainy Day Man or Carry On? Not that any of those songs is better than the original one's but they are the only one's who can even be considered on par with the original score. DiC Tuxedo Mask theme is so crappy, forgettable and generic .It does fit Tuxedo Mask, because he's king of goofy and lame. But the original Tuxedo Mask is so epic and memorable. You are losing more and More of your credibility man."

I actually do have a general preference for the SM dub soundtrack over the J. soundtrack, those are all great songs you mentioned even though my post didn't go into length about each sound from the English score I like better.

I brought up Tuxedo Mask's theme since that one was the most noticeable to me. It plays in virtually every episode and each time I heard it in the J. soundtrack I always felt nostalgic for his English theme. Sailor Moon's the only dub in existence whose English soundtrack I vastly prefer so I brought it up as an example that it's possible to do good dub music.

Dbzoa's message boards had a fair number of Shuki Levy/Faulconer score fans, and even I, the King of Faulconer-bashing, never actually personally attacked anyone (besides Funimation and Faulconer) just for saying they preferred those scores. I disagreed with em but didn't make it all personal. Hell, I even set up the Ocean sub-forum on Dbzoa's boards in acknowledgement of all the Ocean fans we had there and as a tribute to one of my favorite DBZ sites (and Ocean shrine- it was run by the Duncan, the one who also did the Peter Kelamis? shrine at planetnamek.com) when it closed down.

There's a lot I love about the SM dub (music, lot of the voices) and a lot not to love (mainly the censorship and script changes) but, there's no reason to be so hostile just cause you disagree with me about the soundtrack being better.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/c9/c9e1095 ... 2060f1.jpg

[Cure Dragon 255]

True.Sorry for the attack. I didnt realize how nasty my post was until I re-read it just now. I do disagree but it doesnt give me the right to belittle your opinion.

[Tennessaiyan]

I don't see why it wouldn't have been any less popular. I hate the American music anyways, haha (except for some of the movie music.)

[ABED]

Hell no, plain and simple the American BGM made the show badass as compared to the Original BGM,

The action made the show badass.

[GS7X7]

True.Sorry for the attack. I didnt realize how nasty my post was until I re-read it just now. I do disagree but it doesnt give me the right to belittle your opinion.

It's cool, I forgive, no harm done.

[Tatakae!!Ramenman]

I think you might lose a very small number of fans who would think the show was more boring, but it would be such a small amount.

[fogdark]

I can't really speak about the US, since I had already seen all of Dragon Ball in my country by time I lived in NYC for a few years in the early 2000s. But I can give my experience on the Dragon Ball I grew up with.

I should start by saying I became a fan thanks to the Latin American dub. Luckily we got to see the series from it's start, all the way through Z and finally ending with GT. And let me tell you what my young self thought about the music through out that entire run. When the series was right in the middle of the Freeza saga, I spend an entire week, waiting for the show to start to hit the record button on my computer's sound recorder so I could record CHA-LA HEAD CHA-LA. Why you ask? Because I had the great idea of putting that song as the start up sound of Windows. And since I didn't have (the still infant) Internet, I had to make do with what I had. That's just the tip of the iceberg, folks. I LOVED the music, and it was right around 1996 if I remember correctly.
I'd hum the recap music while awaiting for the new episode to start, and I'd find myself thinking of a certain piece of OST if the episode was particularly awesome. But then, the moments when the series got quiet always sent chills down my spine, as I understood the importance, and the tension of the situation.

I find it funny how some people would think the series wouldn't be successful with the Kikuchi score. I understand nostalgia makes us a bit blind when judging, but considering the great popularity Dragon Ball has around the world, and the fact that most of them knew it AND loved it with the Kikuchi score, I really don't understand why the USA would be an exception. I mean, I remember seeing other series, from around the same time period, US "treated" series in fact, and liking them ....and currently not remembering most of that music, except for some intros, here and there.

What I'm saying is, my opinion, and solely my opinion, doesn't really count when saying Dragon Ball would've been fine with the Kikuchi score, since I'm regarding it from a point of view full of nostalgia; But rather, the fact that Dragon Ball, the global phenomenon, became what it is with THAT score.
When I came to the US I was expecting to find drastic differences in what was on TV, and while there were certainly were some in other programs, it was mostly the same in cartoons/anime. Which is what leads me to believe that Dragon Ball would've been fine, or perhaps, it'd have been even more popular with it's original score.

[DBZAOTA482]

I can't really speak about the US, since I had already seen all of Dragon Ball in my country by time I lived in NYC for a few years in the early 2000s. But I can give my experience on the Dragon Ball I grew up with.

I should start by saying I became a fan thanks to the Latin American dub. Luckily we got to see the series from it's start, all the way through Z and finally ending with GT. And let me tell you what my young self thought about the music through out that entire run. When the series was right in the middle of the Freeza saga, I spend an entire week, waiting for the show to start to hit the record button on my computer's sound recorder so I could record CHA-LA HEAD CHA-LA. Why you ask? Because I had the great idea of putting that song as the start up sound of Windows. And since I didn't have (the still infant) Internet, I had to make do with what I had. That's just the tip of the iceberg, folks. I LOVED the music, and it was right around 1996 if I remember correctly.
I'd hum the recap music while awaiting for the new episode to start, and I'd find myself thinking of a certain piece of OST if the episode was particularly awesome. But then, the moments when the series got quiet always sent chills down my spine, as I understood the importance, and the tension of the situation.

I find it funny how some people would think the series wouldn't be successful with the Kikuchi score. I understand nostalgia makes us a bit blind when judging, but considering the great popularity Dragon Ball has around the world, and the fact that most of them knew it AND loved it with the Kikuchi score, I really don't understand why the USA would be an exception. I mean, I remember seeing other series, from around the same time period, US "treated" series in fact, and liking them ....and currently not remembering most of that music, except for some intros, here and there.

What I'm saying is, my opinion, and solely my opinion, doesn't really count when saying Dragon Ball would've been fine with the Kikuchi score, since I'm regarding it from a point of view full of nostalgia; But rather, the fact that Dragon Ball, the global phenomenon, became what it is with THAT score.
When I came to the US I was expecting to find drastic differences in what was on TV, and while there were certainly were some in other programs, it was mostly the same in cartoons/anime. Which is what leads me to believe that Dragon Ball would've been fine, or perhaps, it'd have been even more popular with it's original score.

It should also be noted that the US is not even the country where Dragon Ball Z's popularity is most prevalent. It's most popular in Latin America, where it's even a full-blown pop culture icon.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Didn't Sabat say no matter what they did to the show, it would have always have remained popular? That as straight from the horses mouth as you can get. And honestly I agree, I never watched Z for the music or dialogue but for the action and how cool looking the characters were, if we had a faithful dub and the original BGM from the getgo I would still be here today as I bet most others too.

[GS7X7]

Didn't Sabat say no matter what they did to the show, it would have always have remained popular? That as straight from the horses mouth as you can get. And honestly I agree, I never watched Z for the music or dialogue but for the action and how cool looking the characters were, if we had a faithful dub and the original BGM from the getgo I would still be here today as I bet most others too.

Sabat likely said that. Got an exact quote you could share? However, if Christopher "Vegeta" Sabat did say that then puts him in direct conflict with his ally and VA rival Sean "Goku" Schemmel.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... lit=secret

Sean Schemmel- "I'll talk as loudly as I want now, and I'll be heard. The reason is you're misunderstanding some things about companies and dubbing and how they control our mouths. Just because I was in the original DBZ, doesn't mean I liked it or supported it artistically. We were all frustrated with the old powers that be at Funimation, and for those of you who have never worked in show business professionally, which I would say is, all of you, you may not realize that many companies stance on gag orders is this. "Shut up or be fired." Also, I have a LOT more experience, writing, dubbing, directing and acting in anime than I did when I recorded DBZ the first time. That was my first acting audition. I understand Japanese culture, voice acting, adaptation, the differences between japanese and english significantly more, and, as far as music is concerned I have vast experience in that area, so when I tell you the music will suck, aside from your own subjective experience, I'm pretty qualified to talk about the suckiness of music or not. Of course to each his own at the end of the day. I will be silent about my opinions no longer. We did the best we could with DBZ with some really really crappy decisions that were made by people, who in my opinion, not only had zero artistic talent and experience, were also trying to appease american audiences to make money because perhaps they thought the Pokemon formula would work for DBZ. If America wasn't so uptight about things and parents didn't allow the tv to babysit their children, perhaps more shows would come the U.S. and be uncut. At the end of the day, I am, and have always been a freelance actor, and just because I work for a company doesn't mean I support their decisions.

------- (emphasis mine)
This is the first time I have supported Funi's decisions publicly, and the staff at Funi is now amazing. It's a completely different company.
-------

Have a nice day."

-Sean Schemmel"


That Goku and Vegeta, always two rivals arguing about every issue!

[TheBlackPaladin]

In the interest of keeping the discussion going and playing (and I do mean "playing," because I don't believe this myself) devil's advocate...

The U.S. has, historically, been a little on the xenophobic side when it comes to cinematic imports from other cultures. I don't say that with any degree of pride (rather, I say it with shame), but you don't see a ton of foreign films becoming huge hits over here. Don't get me wrong, those exist, but they're not particularly common. By contrast, almost every country around the world is used to receiving shows imported from other countries...whether it be anime or Hollywood movies. So I think other countries are more used to receiving other TV shows and movies as they are, without the need for "re-versioning."

So, unfortunately, we had a "perfect storm" of bad elements:
-The U.S.'s slight xenophobia with regard to cinematic imports from other cultures.
-The fact that FUNimation was a very small company at first, unable to take a lot of financial risks.
-The fact that the only real property they had was the Dragon Ball franchise.
-The likely scenario that they were fearful that the show wouldn't be a hit in the English-speaking world...fears that were at least partially justified by Dragon Ball's early cancellation and DBZ's not-quite-as-early-but-still-early cancellation.

The idea of doing an alternate score was proposed as a way of both bringing in another revenue stream (through licensing and publishing), and diminishing some of the above risks. They probably saw keeping the original score as too much of a risk. I don't agree with their decision, but my disagreement is aided by 20/20 hindsight. To them, at the time, this whole thing was a giant risk, and they saw an alternate score as a way of minimizing the risk.

[ABED]

I don't think Xenophobia has anything to do with it. As long as the cartoon is dubbed, I don't think many people have a problem with watching anime, even then.

[GS7X7]

Good point. The fact that America had Hollywood, Disney and countless other media companies have spent decades producing mass-shows sent over the world meant we tended to be more of a cultural export than importer.

[EXBadguy]

Hell no, plain and simple the American BGM made the show badass as compared to the Original BGM,

The action made the show badass.

Even though I like all of the other composers eons better than Kikuchi, I agree that the music isn't what made the show badass. Anything can go with DBZ, whether if it's rock, orchestra, techno, etc., and it would still be just as popular. Though I think the "unofficial" rock sountrack made some of the movies badass.

Didn't Sabat say no matter what they did to the show, it would have always have remained popular? That as straight from the horses mouth as you can get. And honestly I agree, I never watched Z for the music or dialogue but for the action and how cool looking the characters were, if we had a faithful dub and the original BGM from the getgo I would still be here today as I bet most others too.

Sabat likely said that. Got an exact quote you could share? However, if Christopher "Vegeta" Sabat did say that then puts him in direct conflict with his ally and VA rival Sean "Goku" Schemmel.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... lit=secret

Sean Schemmel- "I'll talk as loudly as I want now, and I'll be heard. The reason is you're misunderstanding some things about companies and dubbing and how they control our mouths. Just because I was in the original DBZ, doesn't mean I liked it or supported it artistically. We were all frustrated with the old powers that be at Funimation, and for those of you who have never worked in show business professionally, which I would say is, all of you, you may not realize that many companies stance on gag orders is this. "Shut up or be fired." Also, I have a LOT more experience, writing, dubbing, directing and acting in anime than I did when I recorded DBZ the first time. That was my first acting audition. I understand Japanese culture, voice acting, adaptation, the differences between japanese and english significantly more, and, as far as music is concerned I have vast experience in that area, so when I tell you the music will suck, aside from your own subjective experience, I'm pretty qualified to talk about the suckiness of music or not. Of course to each his own at the end of the day. I will be silent about my opinions no longer. We did the best we could with DBZ with some really really crappy decisions that were made by people, who in my opinion, not only had zero artistic talent and experience, were also trying to appease american audiences to make money because perhaps they thought the Pokemon formula would work for DBZ. If America wasn't so uptight about things and parents didn't allow the tv to babysit their children, perhaps more shows would come the U.S. and be uncut. At the end of the day, I am, and have always been a freelance actor, and just because I work for a company doesn't mean I support their decisions.

------- (emphasis mine)
This is the first time I have supported Funi's decisions publicly, and the staff at Funi is now amazing. It's a completely different company.
-------

Have a nice day."

-Sean Schemmel"


That Goku and Vegeta, always two rivals arguing about every issue!

This really does sounds convincing, but I think this is a bunch of lies. I think it was just a random sub purist who pretends to be Schemmel to make that fanpage, and besides, couldn't he get fired for saying that? I'm not saying he should agree with everything Funimation does, but I'm just saying, even if he did feel that way, he should've either quitted Funimation or kept his mouth shut. Seanny-boy should know better. It's like you working for a big company like Apple and when you start talking shit about the company on Facebook, the company finds out about it and the person gets fired.

Geez, man, things like this make me glad that I'm not an anime fan anymore. It's always dub vs sub and shaming people who prefer other scores over the originals. If people find Faulconer or Theifammoto's music catchy, so be it, leave them alone!

[GS7X7]

That's all assuming that someone pretended to be Schemmel and went to the trouble of running a FB fan page and interacting with fans for months for the purpose of defaming him, which I don't think is likely. You're the first one to even suggest that. If there was a pretender then I'm surprised "the real him" has never bothered to sign up on the board and state that was the case. I would certainly welcome Sean Schemmel's arrival here and a full explanation of "the faker" as well as evidence that's not him if we have indeed been hoodwinked.

In any case, I doubt Schemmel will be fired. He does try to temper her complaints by attributing a lot to the "old powers" (most people seem to take that to mean Watson and whoever else left to join Ilumitoon) plus it's not like he said something abnormally specific and vulgar like, "Mr. (insert name of executive here) was a real mother @#R$@#$ @#$#@ @#$ @#$ @#$ @$@! Seriously, @"#@ that guy!" Schemmel may have had to do some minor apologies for what he said though, but he's too entrenched as Goku to simply be kicked out for a rant he made on a DBZ message board that at best one or two thousand people have even read.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I don't think Xenophobia has anything to do with it. As long as the cartoon is dubbed, I don't think many people have a problem with watching anime, even then.

Well, if they actually knew it was anime.

It was the goal of a lot of dubbing companies back then to disguise anime shows as domestic productions. FUNimation did it with Dragon Ball, DiC did it with Sailor Moon, and 4Kids did it with........well, everything they could touch. And, to be honest, speaking purely from personal experience, it worked. Never once as a kid did I have the slightest inkling that perhaps these shows were Japanese in origin. I thought I was watching American cartoons. Only when I saw the Japanese intro to Gundam Wing on the midnight run of Toonami (*que nostalgic sigh here*) did I slowly begin to put the pieces of the puzzle together.

However, I also have to take note that, as I watched more anime shows on Toonami, I actually found that I liked the more Japanese aspects, specifically because of how different it was. So I don't blame FUNimation (on a business level) for not taking the perceived risk of including the original score, but I think if they had, the show might have been even more popular. The show was already popular enough for how different it was, after all.