So, about the Broly hate...

[rereboy]

Like I was adding to my previous post, the only difference is that I see meaning in those scenes and in those parallels and you don't, choosing to believe that Broly is crazy just because or because he heard crying.

To me that doesn't make any sense, but you are free to believe so... I just find incomprehensible all the fans that believe that and criticize the movie claiming that when, to me, it's pretty clear that the guys that made the movie were going for something much more meaningful and interesting than "Broly crazy because crying", which is, frankly, a much dumbed down take on what I believe they actually were going for.

[Cursed Lemon]

Broly can be crazy for whatever reason you want, because they never elaborate on his craziness.

But you can't just pull something out of thin air and say it makes any more sense than anything else pulled out of thin air.

[rereboy]

Broly can be crazy for whatever reason you want, because they never elaborate on his craziness.

But you can't just pull something out of thin air and say it makes any more sense than anything else pulled out of thin air.

Er... It's called having an opinion about what makes more or most sense. So, yes, I can say that it makes more sense.

The only thing I can't do is tell you that you can't think differently, and I didn't say that, so...

[DemonRin]

Broly went mad because of crying

This is part of the problem here. Rather than actually present an example of a scene in the movie that includes the parallels I'm asking for, you misrepresent my point despite the fact that I've already said this isn't the case. I don't see ANYONE in this thread trying to make the argument that Broli's craziness is entirely caused by Goku's crying, yet that's what you keep saying in an attempt to make our argument look stupid.

Most everyone who actually saw the movie understands that the craziness was caused by him being unable to control his massive power and it driving him mad. That's actually something the movie portrays in the scenes that are shown, tho I would also argue that being mind controlled for a good chunk of his life didn't help his sanity much. Regardless, Nobody is making the argument that Goku's crying CAUSED his insanity, just that the crying is what specifically made him hate Goku and want to kill him. It's probable the craziness is why something as simple as "You made me cry as a baby" makes him hate Goku, but the craziness was not CAUSED by the crying and none of us are saying that.

Every time you act like we are, it tells me you aren't reading what we're saying and/or are trying to make our argument sound stupid. Stop that.

Now, about what "Evidence" you've presented so far to explain your position, you haven't pointed to any scenes or story elements in the movie at all, you just keep insisting his design was meant as a nod to Sun Wukong and that, plus them being born on the same day makes him a dark parallel to Goku and therefore, that somehow equates to Broly's motivation actually being self preservation, IE killing Goku whom he SOMEHOW magically senses is the one person who can beat him even though Goku totally isn't and needed help from his friends to beat him.

Making the villain a dark mirror of the hero as a design choice doesn't immediately inform the character's motivations in the film, for example, Tullece is a character who is VERY OBVIOUSLY meant as a dark mirror of Goku since he's literally got the same Character design, but despite some fan theories and bad foreign dub lines, they have absolutely no relationship beyond "bad guy who happens to look like me wants to destroy my planet, gotta stop him".

And the being born on the same day thing doesn't so much explain a deep meaning as it is a convenient excuse for why the two babies were there together for the crying scene to happen.


At what point in the ACTUAL MOVIE is it stated, implied, or hinted at that Broly knows feels or senses ANYTHING about Goku?! I remember nothing. Honestly, when we first started discussing this yesterday, I got the idea to watch the film again as I haven't in a while and my friend Jessica hasn't seen ANY of the DB movies, so I've been meaning to watch all of them with her.

Tell me what to look out for in my watch then. Legitimately tell me which story elements I'm supposed to be watching for or what scenes are supposed to support this position, and I'll try my best to fairly assess what I'm seeing.

But you're the one making these claims, so some solid info in this way is kinda needed. The burden of proof is on you.

Er... It's called having an opinion about what makes more or most sense. So, yes, I can say that it makes more sense.

The only thing I can't do is tell you that you can't think differently, and I didn't say that, so...

But that's not what you're doing... at several points, you acted like we were somehow dumb for simply not interpreting the movie the same way your did.

[batistabus]

Also, besides the cry scene, you have the fact that Broly and Goku were born in exactly the same day, Broly's special attitude towards Goku which clearly tells us that he thinks of Goku as someone different and Broly's design echoing Sun Wukong. The interpretation that suggests that Broly is mad because he heard crying, besides being ridiculous, implies that we consider all this plus the placement of the scenes, that obviously had an intent, to be random... Also, it ignores the fact that Broly only went crazy when he used his power, which demonstrates that its his power that drives him crazy, due to how extreme it is, which is pretty clear in the scene where he takes his father's eye out.

I agree that there are parallels between Goku and Broli in a similar way that there are parallels between Tullece and Goku, Vegeta and Goku, and Raditz and Goku. I don't agree that Broli's personal motivations for wanting to kill Goku extend any further than the crying.

Giving all credit to Toriyama just cause he DREW Broly is just disrespectful to everyone who worked on that movie and honestly shows a very heavy bias on your part.

Toriyama may have given Broly Appearance but it was Koyama who gave him life, emotions, personality, traits and all that jazz.

I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time respecting someone who wrote 13 Dragon Ball movies (most of them terrible) yet has THIS sort of reaction to a Toriyama work. I genuinely only enjoyed a small handful of Dragon Ball films, and I hope he never touches this series ever again.

Broli's design is basically the only thing I find interesting about him. I think the parallels are cool, but we've seen similar things with just about every Saiyan introduced previously. The concept of a Hulk Saiyan that is born that way for no reason with the most bland base-form personality of all time is not something I ever wanted. The best way I can think about that movie is to imagine Paragus as the main villain, with Broli being a "summoned" creature that he calls upon.

[Dyno]

The best way I can think about that movie is to imagine Paragus as the main villain, with Broli being a "summoned" creature that he calls upon.

You described Movie 8 perfectly, with the Movie 10 without Paragus, just with that stupid thing alone around there. Yet, people managed to find something good/a personality in that summoned creature. It's like saying Yu-Gi-Oh!'s monsters have a story (aside from Dark Magician and Blue-Eyes White Dragon... Actually even all of the monsters had a personality).

[Captain Sauza]

So I found this on Broly's power section of the DBZ Wiki: According to Takao Koyama, the writer for the first thirteen Dragon Ball Z films, Broly is the most powerful of the movie antagonists (thus surpassing even the likes of Janemba and Hirudegarn in power).

Is this supposed to be taken at face value or what? I'd like to just dismiss Koyama's statement because, well the movies show otherwise. How in the heck is Broly even going to stratch Janemba or Hirudegarn?

[jcogginsa]

Well, at face value it's ridiculous, but i can imagine a couple scenarios where it might make sense. All of them would be reaching though

[DemonRin]

Broli's design is basically the only thing I find interesting about him. I think the parallels are cool, but we've seen similar things with just about every Saiyan introduced previously. The concept of a Hulk Saiyan that is born that way for no reason with the most bland base-form personality of all time is not something I ever wanted. The best way I can think about that movie is to imagine Paragus as the main villain, with Broli being a "summoned" creature that he calls upon.

Basically this is my opinion too. I think this is basically a monster movie where the point is that Paragas is the actual villain who has the actual motivation, Broli is just his mindless pawn that is supposed to do his bidding and help get that done, but a combination of factors (His Craziness plus his hate of Goku, which again, are two separate things initially) cause Paragas to lose control and everyone has to deal with this rampaging monster that is unleashed as a result of this.

Honestly, I'm gonna preface this by saying this is just my opinion based on my interpretation of events, and is in no way supposed to be a fact, but I think Movie 8's plot is basically a result of the DB/Z Film series' tendency for its films, at least the majority of them, to just be remixed rehashes of prior arcs. Movies 1-2 are original enough, but 3 is the Saiyan arc again, 4 is the Piccolo Daimao and Jr. Arcs, Movies 5-6 is Freeza, Movie 7 is a more original take on the Cyborgs, and I honestly think Movie 8 is a more straight forward take on the Cyborgs with different window dressing, while movie 9 is obviously the Cell games.

Think about movie 8 real quick. Guy (Paragas/Gero) with a reason to hate a member of the main cast (Vegeta/Goku) tries to sick a pawn that's supposed to be completely under his control (Broli/The Cyborgs) on them. That plan goes awry however when the pawn(s) go rogue, kill the main guy and go on a rampage/killing spree that is, at least at first directed at killing Goku for their own reasons (He made him cry as a Baby/16 is programmed to and can't or won't do anything else until Goku is dead)

I give movies 8 and 9 props for the villains being more original in their designs instead of just being a reskinned version of the villain from the original arc they were from, but the plot points are all basically the same.

So I found this on Broly's power section of the DBZ Wiki: According to Takao Koyama, the writer for the first thirteen Dragon Ball Z films, Broly is the most powerful of the movie antagonists (thus surpassing even the likes of Janemba and Hirudegarn in power).

Is this supposed to be taken at face value or what? I'd like to just dismiss Koyama's statement because, well the movies show otherwise. How in the heck is Broly even going to stratch Janemba or Hirudegarn?

It's possible I guess that he meant for Broly to be, maybe, sort of. But that feels to some extent inconsistent considering Gohan and Goten were able to beat him with a Kamehameha in Movie 10 while it took Super Saiyan 3 Goku to beat Hildegarn...

I mean... maybe? In both of Broli's non-clone appearances, it took outside help to beat him (Goku being given power, Goku being allowed to be involved in the Kamehameha thanks to the Dragonballs etc) so... maybe? This seems like a loose statement considering the movies already kindof ignore canon to varying degrees, so I don't think you can count on them for consistent power scaling.

[rereboy]

This is part of the problem here. Rather than actually present an example of a scene in the movie that includes the parallels I'm asking for, you misrepresent my point despite the fact that I've already said this isn't the case.

I've already written extensively on the subject throughout this topic in several posts, including in response to you. If you really don't see what I mean, then you just won't see it, but here's what I already said in a spoiler:

Spoiler:

The movie goes out of its way to show us that it was his own power that drove him mad, like it's very clear in the scene where he takes out one of the eyes of his father. It really has nothing to do with Goku crying.

As for that crying scene, it exists because Movie 8 goes out of its way to establish a symbolic representation of Goku's and Broly's relationship by having the weakling baby Goku still managing to annoy prodigy baby Broly who had a power level of 10.000 despite their power differences. It has nothing to do with Broly going crazy by hearing a cry when he was a baby, its a representation of their relationship and a metaphor for what happens later in the movie when Goku manages to find a way to beat Broly, which is why a flashback of that scene is played when Goku beats Broly.

As for Broly not liking Goku, that's simply because he instinctively recognizes Goku as his rival and instinctively feels the need to crush him as his rival. That's why in the movie they felt the need to even make Goku be born on the same day as Broly, to really accentuate how they are meant to be rivals, even though they are so very different, and the crying scene accentuates this even further.

He wants to murder him because he, instinctively, recognizes that he is somehow different. That he somehow poses a threat to him. Hence, he recognizes him as a challenger, a rival. And the movie goes out of its way to show us clues to this, and it culminates the action by proving that Broly was absolutely right to have that instinct since Goku manages to find a way to beat him, despite being weaker, just like he managed to find a way to annoy him when they were babies despite Goku being way weaker.

Because Broly haters are just as bad as Broly fanboys .

But yeah, I didn't realize the Sun Wukong influence in his design. It's pretty neat. If we add that to the things I commented on previously about movie 8, we realize that it's indeed a pretty great movie, with its main flaw being not having more interesting action choreography.

If you want to believe that the carefully placed scenes of their interaction together as children (especially when Goku defeats him) and all the coincidences and parallels between the two of them are completely random, including the elements in his design that eco parts of the Sun Wukong mythology that Goku is also based on, and that Broly is mad because he simply heard crying as a baby, you are free to do so. To me, that's completely ridiculous and shows a lack of ability to grasp subtle parallels in storytelling, which aren't even that subtle, they are just subtle for DB's standards.

As for the problems you mentioned:

1. That's the whole point. Broly IS more powerful than Goku, just like he was when they were babies. However, despite that, Goku STILL finds a way to make that not matter. As a kid, he still managed to make Broly cry with his own crying despite being massively weaker, and, as an adult, with the help of his allies (something that Broly doesn't have and something that only Goku could achieve, since most of the gang are former enemies), he once again finds a way to overcome the difference between them despite being clearly weaker.

2. Broly never met Vegeta before or King Vegeta. And Broly instinctively recognizes Goku as his rival, as his counterpart. This goes beyond being powerful or being a SSJ or what they did to him in the past. He realizes that Goku has the ability to overcome the difference in their powers and ultimately overcome him. He feels it on instinct, so he recognizes him as his personal rival. And he is proven correct since, what do you know, Goku manages to do just that, overcome the difference between them and defeat him. Vegeta might be powerful and a SSJ but he was never meant to be Broly's rival and he doesn't posses Goku's ability to overcome the difference between them. The story goes out of its way to show us that the relationship, the rivalry and confrontation between Goku and Broly is meant to be and fated to happen.

3. I've already explained to you why he reacts to Goku that way. As for Goten, that's played for laughs, but in-universe its either because Goten is so similar to Goku that he confuses him or because he realizes that he is obviously related to Goku.

Broly was designed under the directions for what they intended for him in the movie. That's why Toriyama's design includes his headband that is an essential plot point.

Also, besides the cry scene, you have the fact that Broly and Goku were born in exactly the same day, Broly's special attitude towards Goku which clearly tells us that he thinks of Goku as someone different and Broly's design echoing Sun Wukong. The interpretation that suggests that Broly is mad because he heard crying, besides being ridiculous, implies that we consider all this plus the placement of the scenes, that obviously had an intent, to be random... Also, it ignores the fact that Broly only went crazy when he used his power, which demonstrates that its his power that drives him crazy, due to how extreme it is, which is pretty clear in the scene where he takes his father's eye out.

You will notice that I do mention various scenes, including the scene where Goku makes Broly cry when they are babies as soldiers are commenting on their power levels and while being mentioned that they were born on the same day, fully establishing the parallel between the two; the scenes where Broly is growing up and goes crazy with his power and takes the eye of his father out; the scenes where is obvious that Broly reacts to Goku differently from everybody else; and the scene where Broly is defeated which goes out of its way to show us the flashback of Goku making Broly crying, reminding us of the parallel established in that scene between the two of them and how Goku managed to overcome the difference in power between them to disturb Broly, just like he did as an adult to defeat him.

The Sun Wukong influence in Broly's design wasn't even mentioned by me first in this topic but I do agree with it.

I don't see ANYONE in this thread trying to make the argument that Broli's craziness is entirely caused by Goku's crying, yet that's what you keep saying in an attempt to make our argument look stupid.

I'm sorry, what? Here's what YOU wrote earlier:

1: His motivation was absolutely stupid. Goku made him cry while they were babies, whaaaa, Gonna kill Kakarott now. That's literally it. The movie doesn't really do anything to show you "Hey, there's a deeper meaning here", it's just "You made me cry when we were 1 day old, I'mma kill you".They didn't even try to say it had something to do with the mind control or anything. I mean, a very plausible theory would be that Paragas had Broli enslaved from infancy, so Broli still has the mind of an infant now that he's free which is why he attacks Goku or something, but no, that's not explored or even hinted at. He remembered that Goku made him cry, so Goku gotsta die.

2: This might be caused by the first thing, but he has absolutely no personality as a result. He's a mindless beast whose job in the story is to punch people as hard as he can.

You are literally saying that there's nothing more to Broly and what he does than him hearing Goku cry, and that's the reason for his obsession towards Goku, which is a great deal of his craziness.... You even go as far as saying that his mindless state is caused or might be caused by the fact that Goku made him cry... And yet you are saying that nobody argued this? Ok...

Now, about what "Evidence" you've presented so far to explain your position, you haven't pointed to any scenes or story elements in the movie at all, you just keep insisting his design was meant as a nod to Sun Wukong and that, plus them being born on the same day makes him a dark parallel to Goku and therefore, that somehow equates to Broly's motivation actually being self preservation, IE killing Goku whom he SOMEHOW magically senses is the one person who can beat him even though Goku totally isn't and needed help from his friends to beat him.

Read what I wrote for your first quote instead of stating inaccurate things. I wasn't even the one to first mention the Sun Wukong influence in his design.

At what point in the ACTUAL MOVIE is it stated, implied, or hinted at that Broly knows feels or senses ANYTHING about Goku?! I remember nothing.

Er... Its implied by the fact that he has a very obvious and visceral response to Goku's presence which even causes him to start to break his mind control, making it clear that he considers Goku different from everyone else? Even you admitted this earlier but you justified it with Broly simply hating Goku because he made him cry as a baby which I don't agree. Like I said, IMO, there's a meaning to this and it's not simply him being mad because he cried which really doesn't make much sense.

Tell me what to look out for in my watch then. Legitimately tell me which story elements I'm supposed to be watching for or what scenes are supposed to support this position, and I'll try my best to fairly assess what I'm seeing.

Read what I wrote regarding your first quote and what I had already written in this topic. Pay attention to the scenes I mentioned and ask yourself "what exactly were the guys that did this movie going for in these scenes in relation to the rest of the movie? Is there a meaning to it and if there is, what is it?". That's all you can do. You will either see what I see and agree with me or you won't.

But that's not what you're doing... at several points, you acted like we were somehow dumb for simply not interpreting the movie the same way your did.

You can have whatever interpretation of the movie you like but I'm not forced to agree with that interpretation or even think you have a great interpretation or anything like that. I'm free to have whatever opinion I like regarding your interpretation, as long as I'm not disrespectful when I'm addressing you. And that's what is in my posts, namely that, IMO, the opinion that Broly is crazy just because he is or because Goku cried as a baby and that that's is his motivation, and that there's no meaning to the scenes and parallels I mentioned, is very off the mark regarding what I believe the creators were going for and thus constitutes a "dumbing down" of what is presented in the movie, IMO.

[DemonRin]

I don't see ANYONE in this thread trying to make the argument that Broli's craziness is entirely caused by Goku's crying, yet that's what you keep saying in an attempt to make our argument look stupid.

I'm sorry, what? Here's what YOU wrote earlier:

1: His motivation was absolutely stupid. Goku made him cry while they were babies, whaaaa, Gonna kill Kakarott now. That's literally it. The movie doesn't really do anything to show you "Hey, there's a deeper meaning here", it's just "You made me cry when we were 1 day old, I'mma kill you".They didn't even try to say it had something to do with the mind control or anything. I mean, a very plausible theory would be that Paragas had Broli enslaved from infancy, so Broli still has the mind of an infant now that he's free which is why he attacks Goku or something, but no, that's not explored or even hinted at. He remembered that Goku made him cry, so Goku gotsta die.

You are literally saying that there's nothing more to Broly and what he does than him hearing Goku cry, and that's the reason for his obsession towards Goku, which is a great deal of his craziness.... You even go as far as saying that his mindless state is caused or might be caused by the fact that Goku made him cry... And yet you are saying that nobody argued this? Ok...

Ok, see, here's the issue. You're greatly misunderstanding or misrepresenting my point.

You're either making this mistake on your own, or you're assuming that I'm making the mistake of conflating a character trait (The Craziness) and the character's Motivation. (The Crying making him want to kill Goku)

Those are two separate things that are not necessarily interconnecting in any way shape or form.

Broly is crazy because his overwhelming power drove him mad. We do not in any way shape or form disagree on this at all, not in the least bit.

But JUST Because the character is Crazy, doesn't mean that other aspects of his origin MUST have contributed to the Craziness. I do NOT in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM Believe that Goku crying made Broly crazy or contributed to his craziness IN ANY WAY.

What I'm saying the Crying caused was his MOTIVATION TO WANT TO KILL GOKU.

You seem to have no problem acknowledging that these are separate things when articulating your OWN theory about the character.
That being, if I'm understanding correctly:

Craziness = Caused by his overwhelming power driving him mad.
Motivation = Caused by sensing that Goku is a strong rival capable of beating him and wanting to kill him as a result

You acknowledge and treat these things as separate elements when talking about your OWN interpretation of the film, but when I post MY interpretation, which is as follows

Craziness = Caused by his overwhelming power driving him mad.
Motivation = Caused by remembering that Goku was that kid that made him cry and wanting revenge.

You somehow ignore that I've said repeatedly this is my interpretation and instead believe I've been saying this:

Craziness = Caused by Goku crying driving him mad.
Motivation = Now that he's been driven mad by Goku crying, he wants to kill him.

Which is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NOT WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING AT ALL.

As long as you refuse to make this distinction, I don't feel you're understanding what I'm saying and therefore we're gonna go around in circles.

Er... Its implied by the fact that he has a very obvious and visceral response to Goku's presence which even causes him to start to break his mind control, making it clear that he considers Goku different from everyone else?

This explains THAT he sees Goku as different and wants to kill him as a result, but it doesn't explain WHY he sees him as different and wants to kill him.

The "He sees Goku as different because he remembers that Goku was the baby that made him cry and wants to kill him as a result" story ALSO explains why he has a visceral response to Goku that causes him to break his mind control.

Character design alone doesn't explain anything. Tullece again, for example, was also designed specifically to be a Dark Parallel to Goku, not exactly in the same way, but it's the same intent, and that in-and-of itself doesn't inform upon his motivation, only the design and what it's intended to mean from a thematic thing. Broly can be a dark parallel of Goku easily, but nothing about that says his motivation has to be "He somehow senses something different about Goku that makes him sense Goku as a threat".

Again, this all reeks of you personally interpteting the crying scene as being deeper than it's presented at face value. That's fine, you're allowed to interpret the film any way you want to, but since nothing of this is outright STATED in the film, it doesn't make any other interpretation, including outright taking what the movie presents at face value, in any way wrong, dumb, or bad, which is how you seem to respond whenever anyone says that their assessment of the film doesn't agree with yours. Examples:

...and he went crazy because of Goku's crying.

Not this again... Why does this notion even exist? It doesn't make an ounce of sense!

1: His motivation was absolutely stupid. Goku made him cry while they were babies, whaaaa, Gonna kill Kakarott now. That's literally it. The movie doesn't really do anything to show you "Hey, there's a deeper meaning here", it's just "You made me cry when we were 1 day old, I'mma kill you".

No, clearly that's not it, as it's been already explained in this topic.

Outright saying that "Clearly" I'm wrong.

The movie itself is not that smart, but I seriously don't get the fans who insist in dumbing it down more than it actually is. Broly going mad because he heard crying as a baby is probably the most ridiculous and dumbed down interpretation of a movie that I've ever heard.

Re-reading the entire thread to get these examples, I'm now convinced even more that your negative reaction to others not liking Broli comes ENTIRELY from your inability to understand that nobody is actually trying to say the Crying caused the Craziness, that the crying instead caused his hate of Goku, and that the two are entirely separate things that nobody is trying to argue are supposed to overlap.

[voltlunok]

Giving all credit to Toriyama just cause he DREW Broly is just disrespectful to everyone who worked on that movie and honestly shows a very heavy bias on your part.

Toriyama may have given Broly Appearance but it was Koyama who gave him life, emotions, personality, traits and all that jazz.

I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time respecting someone who wrote 13 Dragon Ball movies (most of them terrible) yet has THIS sort of reaction to a Toriyama work. I genuinely only enjoyed a small handful of Dragon Ball films, and I hope he never touches this series ever again.

Broli's design is basically the only thing I find interesting about him. I think the parallels are cool, but we've seen similar things with just about every Saiyan introduced previously. The concept of a Hulk Saiyan that is born that way for no reason with the most bland base-form personality of all time is not something I ever wanted. The best way I can think about that movie is to imagine Paragus as the main villain, with Broli being a "summoned" creature that he calls upon.

Hulk Saiyan born that way? D-did you watch movie 8? Cause from that statement it sure doesn't feel like you did. It feels like you read a synopsis. Broly was merely born with a high power level. It was a series of tragic, horrible events that lead him to LSSJ, he wasn't born with it. Broly's parallels to Goku go much deeper but others have explained them to death in this thread so I won't repeat or parrot them again.

Broly's base form is possibly the least bulked out we've ever seen a saiyan until SSJG Goku.

Spoiler:

_{How is that at all Hulkish?}

So because you don't like Koyama or his work, you think all credit he deserves for work he did and making movies that plenty of people actually do like (Cause taste is a personal and subjective thing ya know?) should go to Toriyama? Again that's disrespectful to a lot of people but I won't go any further then that because then I'd just be acting like a dick and that's something I don't really like doin.

I get you don't like Broly and that's fine, you are entitled to your opinion but at least have an INFORMED opinion and not just random hate thrown about cause you feel like hating on Broly and Koyama. Again it just feels like you have an incredibly heavy bias here...so, have fun with that.

[batistabus]

Broly was merely born with a high power level. It was a series of tragic, horrible events that lead him to LSSJ, he wasn't born with it.

So because you don't like Koyama or his work, you think all credit he deserves for work he did and making movies that plenty of people actually do like (Cause taste is a personal and subjective thing ya know?) should go to Toriyama? Again that's disrespectful to a lot of people but I won't go any further then that because then I'd just be acting like a dick and that's something I don't really like doin.

That is not true and literally nothing in the film implies that. He was born a prodigy - the Saiyan of Legend. He was made insane by his overwhelming power and Paragus' abuse, but he had the power inside of him all along. Hell, even as an infant he uses the power to prevent himself getting stabbed...his eyes turn white and everything. Similar abuse on another Saiyan would not have resulted in that transformation. He wasn't born in the LSS form, but Jesus wasn't born walking on water....

Yes. Like I said, I think most of the movies are terrible and hardly even worth watching. For the most part, the only thing I look back on and think of fondly is the character designs, and most of them were done by Toriyama. I don't have to "respect" the creative decisions of people that worked on these films anymore than anyone needs to respect the creative decisions that went into making Dragon Ball GT.

[supercat]

Well personally, I always felt that the fan speculation on his character and power tended to be quite exaggerated. I've heard everything from Broly wielding a power that was comparable to Kid Buu all the way to being able to rival Omega Shenron. Pointing out the good attributes of a character as a fan is one thing, but inflating battle powers to levels that are probably far off from what they likely are seems a bit excessive.

The other reason seems to be somewhat related to lot of fans assuming Broly will be making another return. I respect the opinions of other fans, and to each their own in regards to what they feel will happen, but I think after all the times Broly was brought back, it seems pretty unlikely for him to suddenly make a canon appearance. I know we can't determine when a particular character will make an appearance, but whenever we hear of something new, I feel like Broly gets mentioned as a possible candidate for making another appearance way more frequently than most other characters.

Lastly, I never really found much amusement in his overall story. I'm pretty big on characters with a lot of depth in their background and/or relationships with other characters, and I just didn't see that in Broly. However, these are all just my own thoughts and opinions on the question being asked, so no hate to Broly fans or anything like that.

[soulnova]

Broly's base form is possibly the least bulked out we've ever seen a saiyan until SSJG Goku.

Spoiler:

I loved Base Broly's design. Then it was just "NOPE".