What things irreversibly lowered your opinion of the series?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Gohan losing his Ultimate state drastically lowered my opinion of the series. What's even the logic behind that? They've already wanked Goku to the point where he's mastered being a god, so why continue to nerf Gohan?

Prior to all the movies was my favorite, when Gohan was #1 like he should be.

[jcogginsa]

Gohan losing his Ultimate state drastically lowered my opinion of the series. What's even the logic behind that? They've already wanked Goku to the point where he's mastered being a god, so why continue to nerf Gohan?

Prior to all the movies was my favorite, when Gohan was #1 like he should be.

They wanted a clear delineation from when he was holding back to buy time and when he was in "Imma end you NOW" mode. Super Saiyan is more visually distinct than Ultimate.

[Rocketman]

They wanted a clear delineation from when he was holding back to buy time and when he was in "Imma end you NOW" mode. Super Saiyan is more visually distinct than Ultimate.

Also it makes Goku look less special and cool for not needing Super Saiyan if they reminded everybody that Gohan hasn't needed Super Saiyan for years.

Also they'd decided on that fucking retarded Bluper form so somebody had to use the old one.

[dbzfan7]

Gohan losing his Ultimate state drastically lowered my opinion of the series. What's even the logic behind that? They've already wanked Goku to the point where he's mastered being a god, so why continue to nerf Gohan?

Yeah his degradation and misuse is practically unforgivable. How a state that had nothing to do with training up and goes away is beyond me. In universe it's stupid, and out of universe there's really no point to keep taking away from em. Only thing left to regress is lose SSJ, and forget how to fight/start cowering and running away again. Then he'll have gone full circle.

[ABED]

Gohan losing his Ultimate state drastically lowered my opinion of the series. What's even the logic behind that? They've already wanked Goku to the point where he's mastered being a god, so why continue to nerf Gohan?

Yeah his degradation and misuse is practically unforgivable. How a state that had nothing to do with training up and goes away is beyond me. In universe it's stupid, and out of universe there's really no point to keep taking away from em. Only thing left to regress is lose SSJ, and forget how to fight/start cowering and running away again. Then he'll have gone full circle.

I buy it. If you don't train, you lose skill and muscle. The power up could work the same way.

[Rocketman]

I buy it. If you don't train, you lose skill and muscle. The power up could work the same way.

Why would a magic spell need to be trained?

[ABED]

I buy it. If you don't train, you lose skill and muscle. The power up could work the same way.

Why would a magic spell need to be trained?

The magic spell just brought out the power, that power needs to be exercised. And in any case, it's magic, it can be whatever the author wants.

[Singh is King]

"Fan's opinions on Krillin and Yamcha as a whole.
Pretty self explanatory.

Fan's opinions on Strength=Good character.
Likewise.

Fans.
At times."

Bashing GT yet praising BoG.

Bashing the DB and Remastered Z dubs.

Praising Sean Schemmel's King Kai and Chris Sabat's Recoome and bashing Tiffany Vollmer and Stephanie Nadolny's voice overs at the same time.

The entirety of the Season 3 FUNimation English dub of DBZ's script writing: it's almost as bad as James Carter Cathcart's script writing for the TPCi dub of Pokemon, who in my opinion is the worst script writer of any English dub ever made.

[ABED]

Season 3's dub didn't lower my opinion of the series, it just lowered my opinion of the dub.

[Singh is King]

Season 3's dub didn't lower my opinion of the series, it just lowered my opinion of the dub.

It hurt a bit of both in my case.

[ABED]

Season 3's dub didn't lower my opinion of the series, it just lowered my opinion of the dub.

It hurt a bit of both in my case.

Why would a bad adaptation hurt your opinion of the series?

[Singh is King]

Season 3's dub didn't lower my opinion of the series, it just lowered my opinion of the dub.

It hurt a bit of both in my case.

Why would a bad adaptation hurt your opinion of the series?

Made it hard to enjoy said series until I found out about the JAP version, if it makes sense.

[Rocketman]

The magic spell just brought out the power, that power needs to be exercised.

But Gohan had it ten years later in the End of Z.

[dbzfan7]

Gohan losing his Ultimate state drastically lowered my opinion of the series. What's even the logic behind that? They've already wanked Goku to the point where he's mastered being a god, so why continue to nerf Gohan?

Yeah his degradation and misuse is practically unforgivable. How a state that had nothing to do with training up and goes away is beyond me. In universe it's stupid, and out of universe there's really no point to keep taking away from em. Only thing left to regress is lose SSJ, and forget how to fight/start cowering and running away again. Then he'll have gone full circle.

I buy it. If you don't train, you lose skill and muscle. The power up could work the same way.

It's a magic ritual, that was all about sitting on your butt doing nothing. Secondly over 7 years Gohan actually put on muscle when he didn't train. Dude was bulky for a 16 year old who spent the last 7 years not working out.

[NitroEX]

Yeah, this whole "well Gohan didn't train so it makes sense he's weak now" argument is just an after the fact rationalisation. It's basically just fans trying to make a stupid idea not seem so stupid when the truth is you're all just in denial.

[The Desert Bandit]

Because Saiyans are cooler and probably made more $$$ than humans. Similar to why Yamcha was tossed aside in DB. I believe Gaffer on DBD or an interview on here said something about changing cast for money reasons.

Humans don't draw. Saiyans do. Super Saiyan was a hit topic too. So introducing a NEW Ssj, A future Saiyan, And Vegeta-Bulma son.

Toriyama was thinking of big bills. Also Humans was relevant to the Boo arc. Heard of a Earthlings human named Ten or even Krillin. Bulma? Dr. Briefs? All relevant.

Of course those evil green pieces of paper were behind Yamcha's fall. I never liked those dollar bills! ...Unless they're in my wallet, of course.

Also, Tien and Krillin may have played roles, as well as Bulma and Dr. Briefs, but why not in combat like they used to in DB?

[TheGmGoken]

Because Saiyans are cooler and probably made more $$$ than humans. Similar to why Yamcha was tossed aside in DB. I believe Gaffer on DBD or an interview on here said something about changing cast for money reasons.

Humans don't draw. Saiyans do. Super Saiyan was a hit topic too. So introducing a NEW Ssj, A future Saiyan, And Vegeta-Bulma son.

Toriyama was thinking of big bills. Also Humans was relevant to the Boo arc. Heard of a Earthlings human named Ten or even Krillin. Bulma? Dr. Briefs? All relevant.

Of course those evil green pieces of paper were behind Yamcha's fall. I never liked those dollar bills! ...Unless they're in my wallet, of course.

Also, Tenshinhan and Krillin may have played roles, as well as Bulma and Dr. Briefs, but why not in combat like they used to in DB?

Bulma never Combated. Ten does nothing but combat. Attacking Cell and Boo. Krillin had a whole sub plot for himself. Humans always have an important role. More to Db than fighting.

[dbzfan7]

Yeah, this whole "well Gohan didn't train so it makes sense he's weak now" argument is just an after the fact rationalisation. It's basically just fans trying to make a stupid idea not seem so stupid when the truth is you're all just in denial.

Personally from an in and out of universe stand point....what's the point? We've had fans from BOG's release complain about this, so why just go back to SSJ anyways? From a character standpoint...why do this if it's not gonna teach any lesson? All it does is make a character even more irrelevant than they already are. It'd be like having the power Piccolo gained from fusing just suddenly vanish. From a general perspective what does him being an SSJ accomplish? Is it to enforce that the ol yellow is last season? That blue is the new cool? Nothing really changes whether they kept Ultimate or not...so why bother scrapping it?

[The Desert Bandit]

Because Saiyans are cooler and probably made more $$$ than humans. Similar to why Yamcha was tossed aside in DB. I believe Gaffer on DBD or an interview on here said something about changing cast for money reasons.

Humans don't draw. Saiyans do. Super Saiyan was a hit topic too. So introducing a NEW Ssj, A future Saiyan, And Vegeta-Bulma son.

Toriyama was thinking of big bills. Also Humans was relevant to the Boo arc. Heard of a Earthlings human named Ten or even Krillin. Bulma? Dr. Briefs? All relevant.

Of course those evil green pieces of paper were behind Yamcha's fall. I never liked those dollar bills! ...Unless they're in my wallet, of course.

Also, Tenshinhan and Krillin may have played roles, as well as Bulma and Dr. Briefs, but why not in combat like they used to in DB?

Bulma never Combated. Ten does nothing but combat. Attacking Cell and Boo. Krillin had a whole sub plot for himself. Humans always have an important role. More to Db than fighting.

I'm not referring to Bulma in that sense. And compare Krillin and Tien's roles to the Saiyans. Yes they did contribute more than Yamcha and Chaotzu, but not as much as the Saiyans. They were weaker than Goten and Trunks, who were just children that didn't have the years of training the humans put in. Besides, the amount of times the humans fought, as well as the amount of spotlights they got, were at their best in DB as opposed to Z.

[SSJ Human]

So we are obviously all still fans of the franchise in a general sense. But what turns has the series taken where you then started to enjoy it less from that point?

Buu arc. Sudden backtracing from Gohan being the main character combined with mental stagnation & regression of Goku. I still liked a lot of it and was entertained, but it was without a doubt the weakest arc of Z.

I could give you eight things I dislike about the Boo saga:
1. Gohan's role being reduced. It starts off well enough with Gohan's high school days being explored, but when we get to the Majin Vegeta and Goku fight, that's around the time that his character disappears for some time and doesn't show up until some major stuff goes down.
2. Krillin's role being reduced. He was the only human who did not have their time on screen go down with the Saiyans and larger threats coming around. He was big since his introduction in DB and for most of DBZ up until this. It was his role during this saga that foreshadowed what he would become in GT. Why, just why?
3. No use of Android 18. She's obviously stronger than Krillin, yet she never fights Boo at any point? Why?
4. Goku being the one to kill the villain again. I would have liked it to either be Gohan or Goten since it would have again been a passing of the torch, but no.
5.Tenshinhan missing in action. He barely does anything at all and gets killed. That's another role that went down. He might as well have not been in the thing.
6. Chi-Chi's death not making an impact. Though Goten was mad when he saw her get killed, he neither went SSJ2 nor did he get confirmed to have become stronger? There's no indication that her death actually did anything besides pissing him off for about an hour.
7. The final battle. Goku, Vegeta, Mr. Satan and Boo embody DBZ as a whole? No, they do not. The final fight should have been Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Piccolo and Krillin vs Kid Boo. Those five were prominent throughout all of the series so why have only two of them be there for the battle? That makes no sense.
8. The ending. I like the idea of a time skip that shows us how the protagonists have changed, but why would you have it center around Oob, a character nobody cared about since it's all the way at the end and we barely know anything about him? It would have made more sense to have it be able one of those five I suggested earlier for the Kid Boo fight, but that would have made more sense than anything else I suppose.