Funi names: a review (update: Namek)
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Re: Funi names: a review
Good work. I hope all of Herms work here is archived somewhere as a reference in the future, maybe put on the site somewhere.
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Re: Funi names: a review
All this Chinese to Japanese to English stuff is a real headache, so let’s switch over to some good old-fashioned attack names.
Kamehameha
Well, they left it as-is. They do say “Kamehameha Wave” a bunch, which is technically redundant (波/ha=wave), but in a world of ATM machines and PIN numbers, it’s probably nothing we can’t handle. The issue of what, if anything, “Kamehameha” as a whole is supposed to mean is complex. Obviously it’s a reference to the Hawaiian king (whose name in Hawaiian means “the Lonely One”), but what’s the name supposed to mean in the context of the DB universe? Well, kame in Japanese means “turtle”, so there’s the intended connection to the attack’s inventor, Kame-sennin/the Turtle Hermit. And ha means “wave”, as mentioned above. So that leaves hame…to be honest, there’s no clear answer. It’s commonly claimed among English speaking fandom that it’s supposed to be short for hametsu/”destruction”, but there are certain problems with this idea, not least of which is that it’s never been officially stated anywhere and seems unknown among Japanese fans. But none of that really has to do with how Funi handled the name. Again, they left it as-is, and that’s probably for the best since the name is so iconic and each syllable is tied directly into how it’s performed. Of course, the connection between the Kamehameha’s name and the name of its inventor is lost, but I guess that’s more of a problem with how they chose to adapt Kame-sennin. More on that later.
Oh yeah, there is the whole pronunciation issue…actually, I’ve seen people claim that the Funi dub’s pronunciation of “Kamehameha” is closer to the original Hawaiian pronunciation of the king’s name, but near as I can tell, this is not actually true. It’s simply that mainland US English speakers are inclined to mispronounce the Hawaiian king’s name in precisely the same way they’re inclined to mispronounce the DB attack’s name.
Special Beam Cannon
The Japanese name: Makankosappo, meaning approximately “Demon Piercing Light Kill Cannon”. Or “Demon’s Deadly Cannon of Piercing Light”. Or, you know, other things of that nature. Long kanji-based attack names like this are relatively rare in DB, but are a staple of other Shonen series. See for instance Yu Yu Hakusho, which gives us Hiei’s Jao-Ensatsu Koku-Ryu-Ha (aka Dragon of the Darkness Flames). And who could forget Yomi’s Makoi-Ryu Renpa-Hansho-Heki (aka…something, I’m sure)? I’m told that in the Naruto dub they typically just leave these names in Japanese and dub fans eat it up, but I suppose it helps if you’re a ninja-themed show.
Anyway, at heart the name “Makankosappo” is simply the word “cannon” modified by four preceding words (“demon”, “piercing”, “light”, and “kill”). In that sense, “Special Beam Cannon” retains the basic form of the original name, while only retaining one of the original modifiers (if we count “beam” as a liberal translation of “light”). Viewed in this way, it seems like “Special” must clearly be a PC replacement for “Demon”. Funi’s dub of the original DB eventually gave us “Evil Containment Wave” in place of Mafuuba/”Demon Containment Wave”, so in that sense perhaps “Evil Beam Cannon” would have been a better choice? “Special” just seems a bit toothless to me. Notably, Viz’s “Light of Death” is not really much of an improvement on “Special Beam Cannon”. Both are far-removed from the original name, and “Light of Death” doesn’t even maintain the structure of the original name the way “Special Beam Cannon” does. But at least “Death” sounds scarier than “Special”.
Personally, I quite like “Devil Drill Cannon” as an alternative to “Special Beam Cannon”, as far as loose translations go. If we’re picking which of the four modifiers to keep, I think the “Piercing” part is a key aspect of the attack (since it goes straight through two characters in a crucial scene), and if you play around with that a bit you get “Drill”. Likewise, Ma/Demon/Devil is important because it’s how Piccolo brands things during this part of the series (more on this shortly). Of course, to be honest I think the Funi dub could totally have gotten away with leaving the name in Japanese if they had tried. Why bother? Well, in DB half the attack names are in English already, so there’s an argument for leaving the ones in Japanese as-is. Toriyama’s even said he takes characterization into account when deciding on attack names: he explains that Vegeta’s the kind of guy to name his attacks in English, while Piccolo’s a “classy” guy who would therefore use kanji. Anyway, Funi did indeed leave some attack names totally untranslated, such as…
Masenko
Admittedly, it’s catchier than “Makankosappo”. It means “Demon Flash”. Without getting into any more theological debates, a big part of Piccolo’s character early on is that he considers himself a Demon King and labels everything with the kanji 魔/ma, “demon”. Whether or not Piccolo actually count as a demon is irrelevant (and I’ve got a whole thread on that), the point is that he thinks he is. It’s his brand, and he labels his stuff accordingly. That’s why he slaps a big 魔 on the outfit he gives Gohan, and that’s why his attacks tend to start with “Ma”. It’s a subtle but distinct thread: DBZ starts off with Piccolo using an attack beginning with “Ma” to kill some Saiyans, then he trains Gohan, who goes on to use an attack beginning with “Ma” against more Saiyans. The entire point behind the name “Masenko” is that it shows Gohan learned this technique from Piccolo. But the Funi dub turns “Makankosappo” into “Special Beam Cannon” while leaving Masenko as-is, so the connection is lost. If nothing else, you’d think they could have called it “Special Flash”. No? Well, suit yourself.
Spirit Ball
In Japanese this is Genki-Dama. Now, 元気/genki can mean several related things, including health, energy, and vitality. “Spirit” falls into that ballpark, but notably it’s “spirit” in the sense of energy/mood. “Being in high spirits”, “spirited”, that sort of thing. It’s unrelated to “spirit” in the sense of ghosts or anything otherworldly like that. Instead, that would be 霊/rei, which is the word translated as “spirit” in Funi’s Yu Yu Hakusho dub. Meanwhile, “dama” comes from 玉/tama, meaning a ball or jewel, or also sometimes a bullet (though in that case it’s usually written with the kanji 弾 instead). Hence Viz translating it as “Energy Sphere”. Since the Genki-Dama is a ball that explodes, calling it a “bomb” is not a huge leap, so I’ll count “Spirit Bomb” as a loose but essentially fine translation.
Tri Beam
Has 100% zilch to do with the original name, something relatively rare, as we’ve seen. In Japanese this is 気功砲/Kikou-hou. The 砲/hou means “cannon”, while 気功/Kikou is Japanese for Qigong, “Life Energy Cultivation”. In the real world, this pretty much just means breathing exercises, but in funky kung-fu stories like DB it means channeling your ki so that you can use fancy attacks. With that in mind, the English release of the Budokai games also refers to this attack as “Chi Blast Cannon”, which is a much better localization. This might all seem a bit academic, but the point behind the attack is that it uses up so much ki/chi/qi/”life force” that people who use it run the risk of dying (if you use up your life force, you use up your life). So keeping ki/chi/qi/”life force” in the name seems smart in that regard. Meanwhile, with “Tri Beam” I guess they just hooked onto the fact that he forms a triangle with his hands when firing it.
Destructo Disc
Alright, so Kienzan: ki=ki, en=circle, zan=cut. With that in mind, “Disc” works as an adaptation of en/”circle”, while…I guess “Destructo” substitutes for zan/”cut”? All else aside, “destruction” is simply the wrong word to invoke when naming an attack whose distinguishing characteristic is that it neatly slices through things. Virtually every other signature attack in the series could have “Destructo” tacked on there (could, not should), but this is one of the attacks where it’s least appropriate.
Gallick Gun
Japanese: ギャリック砲/Gyarikku-hou, with砲/hou once again meaning “cannon”…although “gun” is a potential meaning too (in the sense of a ship’s guns, rather than a handgun or anything tiny like that). Meanwhile, “Gallick” is a valid romanisation of ギャリック/Gyarikku (which could be a pun on “garlic”, though we don’t know for sure). Pretty much fine, I’d say.
To be continued…
Kamehameha
Well, they left it as-is. They do say “Kamehameha Wave” a bunch, which is technically redundant (波/ha=wave), but in a world of ATM machines and PIN numbers, it’s probably nothing we can’t handle. The issue of what, if anything, “Kamehameha” as a whole is supposed to mean is complex. Obviously it’s a reference to the Hawaiian king (whose name in Hawaiian means “the Lonely One”), but what’s the name supposed to mean in the context of the DB universe? Well, kame in Japanese means “turtle”, so there’s the intended connection to the attack’s inventor, Kame-sennin/the Turtle Hermit. And ha means “wave”, as mentioned above. So that leaves hame…to be honest, there’s no clear answer. It’s commonly claimed among English speaking fandom that it’s supposed to be short for hametsu/”destruction”, but there are certain problems with this idea, not least of which is that it’s never been officially stated anywhere and seems unknown among Japanese fans. But none of that really has to do with how Funi handled the name. Again, they left it as-is, and that’s probably for the best since the name is so iconic and each syllable is tied directly into how it’s performed. Of course, the connection between the Kamehameha’s name and the name of its inventor is lost, but I guess that’s more of a problem with how they chose to adapt Kame-sennin. More on that later.
Oh yeah, there is the whole pronunciation issue…actually, I’ve seen people claim that the Funi dub’s pronunciation of “Kamehameha” is closer to the original Hawaiian pronunciation of the king’s name, but near as I can tell, this is not actually true. It’s simply that mainland US English speakers are inclined to mispronounce the Hawaiian king’s name in precisely the same way they’re inclined to mispronounce the DB attack’s name.
Special Beam Cannon
The Japanese name: Makankosappo, meaning approximately “Demon Piercing Light Kill Cannon”. Or “Demon’s Deadly Cannon of Piercing Light”. Or, you know, other things of that nature. Long kanji-based attack names like this are relatively rare in DB, but are a staple of other Shonen series. See for instance Yu Yu Hakusho, which gives us Hiei’s Jao-Ensatsu Koku-Ryu-Ha (aka Dragon of the Darkness Flames). And who could forget Yomi’s Makoi-Ryu Renpa-Hansho-Heki (aka…something, I’m sure)? I’m told that in the Naruto dub they typically just leave these names in Japanese and dub fans eat it up, but I suppose it helps if you’re a ninja-themed show.
Anyway, at heart the name “Makankosappo” is simply the word “cannon” modified by four preceding words (“demon”, “piercing”, “light”, and “kill”). In that sense, “Special Beam Cannon” retains the basic form of the original name, while only retaining one of the original modifiers (if we count “beam” as a liberal translation of “light”). Viewed in this way, it seems like “Special” must clearly be a PC replacement for “Demon”. Funi’s dub of the original DB eventually gave us “Evil Containment Wave” in place of Mafuuba/”Demon Containment Wave”, so in that sense perhaps “Evil Beam Cannon” would have been a better choice? “Special” just seems a bit toothless to me. Notably, Viz’s “Light of Death” is not really much of an improvement on “Special Beam Cannon”. Both are far-removed from the original name, and “Light of Death” doesn’t even maintain the structure of the original name the way “Special Beam Cannon” does. But at least “Death” sounds scarier than “Special”.
Personally, I quite like “Devil Drill Cannon” as an alternative to “Special Beam Cannon”, as far as loose translations go. If we’re picking which of the four modifiers to keep, I think the “Piercing” part is a key aspect of the attack (since it goes straight through two characters in a crucial scene), and if you play around with that a bit you get “Drill”. Likewise, Ma/Demon/Devil is important because it’s how Piccolo brands things during this part of the series (more on this shortly). Of course, to be honest I think the Funi dub could totally have gotten away with leaving the name in Japanese if they had tried. Why bother? Well, in DB half the attack names are in English already, so there’s an argument for leaving the ones in Japanese as-is. Toriyama’s even said he takes characterization into account when deciding on attack names: he explains that Vegeta’s the kind of guy to name his attacks in English, while Piccolo’s a “classy” guy who would therefore use kanji. Anyway, Funi did indeed leave some attack names totally untranslated, such as…
Masenko
Admittedly, it’s catchier than “Makankosappo”. It means “Demon Flash”. Without getting into any more theological debates, a big part of Piccolo’s character early on is that he considers himself a Demon King and labels everything with the kanji 魔/ma, “demon”. Whether or not Piccolo actually count as a demon is irrelevant (and I’ve got a whole thread on that), the point is that he thinks he is. It’s his brand, and he labels his stuff accordingly. That’s why he slaps a big 魔 on the outfit he gives Gohan, and that’s why his attacks tend to start with “Ma”. It’s a subtle but distinct thread: DBZ starts off with Piccolo using an attack beginning with “Ma” to kill some Saiyans, then he trains Gohan, who goes on to use an attack beginning with “Ma” against more Saiyans. The entire point behind the name “Masenko” is that it shows Gohan learned this technique from Piccolo. But the Funi dub turns “Makankosappo” into “Special Beam Cannon” while leaving Masenko as-is, so the connection is lost. If nothing else, you’d think they could have called it “Special Flash”. No? Well, suit yourself.
Spirit Ball
In Japanese this is Genki-Dama. Now, 元気/genki can mean several related things, including health, energy, and vitality. “Spirit” falls into that ballpark, but notably it’s “spirit” in the sense of energy/mood. “Being in high spirits”, “spirited”, that sort of thing. It’s unrelated to “spirit” in the sense of ghosts or anything otherworldly like that. Instead, that would be 霊/rei, which is the word translated as “spirit” in Funi’s Yu Yu Hakusho dub. Meanwhile, “dama” comes from 玉/tama, meaning a ball or jewel, or also sometimes a bullet (though in that case it’s usually written with the kanji 弾 instead). Hence Viz translating it as “Energy Sphere”. Since the Genki-Dama is a ball that explodes, calling it a “bomb” is not a huge leap, so I’ll count “Spirit Bomb” as a loose but essentially fine translation.
Tri Beam
Has 100% zilch to do with the original name, something relatively rare, as we’ve seen. In Japanese this is 気功砲/Kikou-hou. The 砲/hou means “cannon”, while 気功/Kikou is Japanese for Qigong, “Life Energy Cultivation”. In the real world, this pretty much just means breathing exercises, but in funky kung-fu stories like DB it means channeling your ki so that you can use fancy attacks. With that in mind, the English release of the Budokai games also refers to this attack as “Chi Blast Cannon”, which is a much better localization. This might all seem a bit academic, but the point behind the attack is that it uses up so much ki/chi/qi/”life force” that people who use it run the risk of dying (if you use up your life force, you use up your life). So keeping ki/chi/qi/”life force” in the name seems smart in that regard. Meanwhile, with “Tri Beam” I guess they just hooked onto the fact that he forms a triangle with his hands when firing it.
Destructo Disc
Alright, so Kienzan: ki=ki, en=circle, zan=cut. With that in mind, “Disc” works as an adaptation of en/”circle”, while…I guess “Destructo” substitutes for zan/”cut”? All else aside, “destruction” is simply the wrong word to invoke when naming an attack whose distinguishing characteristic is that it neatly slices through things. Virtually every other signature attack in the series could have “Destructo” tacked on there (could, not should), but this is one of the attacks where it’s least appropriate.
Gallick Gun
Japanese: ギャリック砲/Gyarikku-hou, with砲/hou once again meaning “cannon”…although “gun” is a potential meaning too (in the sense of a ship’s guns, rather than a handgun or anything tiny like that). Meanwhile, “Gallick” is a valid romanisation of ギャリック/Gyarikku (which could be a pun on “garlic”, though we don’t know for sure). Pretty much fine, I’d say.
To be continued…
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Re: Funi names: a review
I saw an episode of Hawaii 5 O, where they pronounce it exactly like the US dub's pronunciation. It led me to believe, that the US dub of DBZ was responsible of King Kamehameha being pronounced like that, but hard to tell, when you don't know what they pronounced it as before DBZ hit US shores.Herms wrote:All this Chinese to Japanese to English stuff is a real headache, so let’s switch over to some good old-fashioned attack names.
Kamehameha
Oh yeah, there is the whole pronunciation issue…actually, I’ve seen people claim that the Funi dub’s pronunciation of “Kamehameha” is closer to the original Hawaiian pronunciation of the king’s name, but near as I can tell, this is not actually true. It’s simply that mainland US English speakers are inclined to mispronounce the Hawaiian king’s name in precisely the same way they’re inclined to mispronounce the DB attack’s name.
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Re: Funi names: a review (update: attack names pt.1)
I hear it both ways over here, but the "Japanese" pronunciation seems far more common from official channels, making me assume it's correct...although I haven't investigated the matter anywhere near as throughly as I probably should have. I'm also worried my brain is simply trained to hear it the "Japanese" way regardless of what's actually said.
There's also the Kamehameha Highway, typically called "Kam Highway", pronounced like "camera". Because.
There's also the Kamehameha Highway, typically called "Kam Highway", pronounced like "camera". Because.
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Re: Funi names: a review (update: attack names pt.1)
Good stuff.
Just a note: you've written "Spirit Ball" instead of "Spirit Bomb" in your dub heading.
Just a note: you've written "Spirit Ball" instead of "Spirit Bomb" in your dub heading.
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ShadowBardock89
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Re: Funi names: a review
Try looking for sources that make a reference to the king, but are older than Dragon Ball. You'll find your answer there.dbgtFO wrote:I saw an episode of Hawaii 5 O, where they pronounce it exactly like the US dub's pronunciation. It led me to believe, that the US dub of DBZ was responsible of King Kamehameha being pronounced like that, but hard to tell, when you don't know what they pronounced it as before DBZ hit US shores.Herms wrote:All this Chinese to Japanese to English stuff is a real headache, so let’s switch over to some good old-fashioned attack names.
Kamehameha
Oh yeah, there is the whole pronunciation issue…actually, I’ve seen people claim that the Funi dub’s pronunciation of “Kamehameha” is closer to the original Hawaiian pronunciation of the king’s name, but near as I can tell, this is not actually true. It’s simply that mainland US English speakers are inclined to mispronounce the Hawaiian king’s name in precisely the same way they’re inclined to mispronounce the DB attack’s name.
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Re: Funi names: a review (update: attack names pt.1)
I take it there must be some new Hawaii Five-O show because I keep reading these going, "What? That predates Dragon Ball by, like, fifteen years!"
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Re: Funi names: a review (update: attack names pt.1)
Gaffer Tape wrote:I take it there must be some new Hawaii Five-O show because I keep reading these going, "What? That predates Dragon Ball by, like, fifteen years!"
Yeah a new version of the show has been on the air since 2010: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Five-0
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Re: Funi names: a review (update: attack names pt.1)
That, and "Destructo Disc" just sounds stupid.All else aside, “destruction” is simply the wrong word to invoke when naming an attack whose distinguishing characteristic is that it neatly slices through things.
And even that isn't quite accurate. In earlier uses of the technique, the shape his hands form is more like a diamond or a rhombus, hence the square-shaped hole it forms.Meanwhile, with “Tri Beam” I guess they just hooked onto the fact that he forms a triangle with his hands when firing it.
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TheGreatness25
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Re: Funi names: a review (update: attack names pt.1)
He has three eyes; Tri-Beam.
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Re: Funi names: a review (update: attack names pt.1)
Except his eye count has nothing to do with the nature of the attack. Would you translate the makankosappo as "twin antenna terror"?TheGreatness25 wrote:He has three eyes; Tri-Beam.
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Re: Funi names: a review (update: attack names pt.1)
I think the tri part has to do with the beam part looks like a triangle. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong or its shape isn't consistent.
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Re: Funi names: a review (update: attack names pt.1)
Yeah, to add to this, Spirit Ball is actually the English name to Yamcha's signature move that made its debut at the 23rd World Martial Arts Tournament.Ajay wrote:Good stuff.
Just a note: you've written "Spirit Ball" instead of "Spirit Bomb" in your dub heading.
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Re: Funi names: a review (update: attack names pt.1)
It's always been a square.ABED wrote:I think the tri part has to do with the beam part looks like a triangle. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong or its shape isn't consistent.
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Re: Funi names: a review (update: attack names pt.1)
From this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdX0qfntlwg it looks as though there's no set shape. The impact crater looks square, but it doesn't match the shape of his hands which can be triangular to more like a rhombus.
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Re: Funi names: a review (update: attack names pt.1)
Even a rhombus has four sides. So FUNimation failed geometry or what?ABED wrote:From this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdX0qfntlwg it looks as though there's no set shape. The impact crater looks square, but it doesn't match the shape of his hands which can be triangular to more like a rhombus.
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Re: Funi names: a review (update: attack names pt.1)
I guarantee you hat they named it "Tri-Beam" because he has three eyes. I know it has nothing to do with the attack, but I'm just saying that it probably sounds like them. "Hey, he has three eyes! He must be obsessed with threes! Tri-Beam!"
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Re: Funi names: a review (update: attack names pt.1)
It's most definitely because his hands form a triangle shape when he uses it.TheGreatness25 wrote:I guarantee you hat they named it "Tri-Beam" because he has three eyes. I know it has nothing to do with the attack, but I'm just saying that it probably sounds like them. "Hey, he has three eyes! He must be obsessed with threes! Tri-Beam!"
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Re: Funi names: a review (update: attack names pt.1)
Its a triangle.
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Re: Funi names: a review (update: attack names pt.1)
Hey we can play that game too:Metalwario64 wrote:It's most definitely because his hands form a triangle shape when he uses it.TheGreatness25 wrote:I guarantee you hat they named it "Tri-Beam" because he has three eyes. I know it has nothing to do with the attack, but I'm just saying that it probably sounds like them. "Hey, he has three eyes! He must be obsessed with threes! Tri-Beam!"
Looks pretty close to a square to me. Not to mention that the impact crater is always square-shaped even from that scene you're using above.
TheGreatness25 wrote:I guarantee you hat they named it "Tri-Beam" because he has three eyes. I know it has nothing to do with the attack, but I'm just saying that it probably sounds like them. "Hey, he has three eyes! He must be obsessed with threes! Tri-Beam!"
My money is on this explanation. FUNimation probably wanted to push Tenshinhan's "Three Theme" by flavoring his attacks in the same manner as his most prominent feature.