Stronger or weaker after absorbing South Kaioushin?

[Magneto]

Yeah , well I didn`t reffer to the same type of form that they achieved in the Cell Games .. so yeah that`s why it might`ve been confusing . I use Mastered SSJ for the Cell Games and Full power SSJ3 for the Kid Buu fight .

[Acid_Reign]

Not everything can be proven because sometimes you
actually have to use your brain and apparently you have
difficulties in doing so .
You haven`t been giving any good example , and nothing you said was
backed up using the manga . I explained why that character meant what he did , you didn`t come up with any logical counter arguments and
yet you continue to post . And I already explained why the Kaioshin
energy is useless . It doesn`t matter what form it is in , because there
is only one form given and you don`t have any proof that they can
transform it into a form suitable for Buu to use .

Are you fucking daft? I've had nothing but logical arguments; you just refuse to accept any of them. But hey, if you don't like what I have to say, then that's your problem, not mine.

And for the record, I haven't "used the manga," (which apparently is a requirement in debating now ) because it doesn't say anything about DBZ's psychics. But when a fictional world so closely resembles our own (and even calls their home planet "Earth") it's pretty much taken for granted that it follows the same basic rules as ours, with a few exceptions such as the ability to fly.

As a matter of fact they did drain the energy from them
remotley , Gohan being the example .But they couldn`t do it to all the
fighters , because they couldn`t keep them from moving and doing it ,
like Kaioshin did in Gohan`s case . All the damage done by one of
Babidi`s fighters to the other was being sent to make Buu stronger .
That doesn`t imply any transformation , because the energy is being
directly sent to Majin Boo once the damage is done . And no ,
it`s not the kinetic energy that Buu was absorbing , it was the person`s
direct energy , their body energy , proving it again using Gohan`s case

The energy is kinetic long before it ever reaches the Majin fighters. Just by the [quite literal] process of lifting a finger, you are generating kinetic energy. If the latter half of the revival process is really the same as what Spopovich did to Gohan, wouldn't the fighters have gotten tired from all of their Ki being, as you put it: directly absorbed?

And as matter of fact absorption is the same thing since it uses the
person`s direct energy , making Buu stronger from it . Kinetic energy
has nothing to do with this case . Don`t use the kinetic example because
it seems you have no ideea what it means lol

Kid, don't make me laugh. I don't know what kinetic energy is, huh? Perhaps you could explain it to me then. Seriously, tell me what it is, because apparently I don't know and you do. Go ahead. Bestow your knowledge down upon me. Or maybe, you have no fucking clue what it means and my explanation flew over your head so you decided to try and tell me that I didn't know in attempt to hide your own ignorance? No but seriously, tell me how it works, professor. I'm all ears.

And it seems you don`t understand why Boo`s outfit changed . It changed because the person absorbed had that outfit not because of the person absorbed`s energy .

Only a toddler would fail so hard at comprehending what I wrote. I can't even use proper rhetoric on you because you have such poor a grasp on the English language. I shouldn't even have to explain myself.

Of-fucking-course I know that you dipshit; I was demonstrating a point. Let me highlight the key phrase in my post for you that you obviously missed entirely because you don't know how to read:

so unless you're telling me that with each absorption Boo's outfit changed while his power remained exactly the same, it has to be a different type of energy

Do I really need to define the word "unless" for you?

You`re closing on that top 3 fast lol

It's funny how cool you think you're being when the reality is that no one here actually likes you.

EDIT: This will be my last post in this thread. I honestly don't care what Magneto has to say in response.

[gohanku]

As a matter of fact he said it can`t be used , period . So it can`t make Buu stronger .
Why would he need to say that it can`t be used in any form , since the energy was only in one form and you can`t prove that they could transform it into another , in which case they could have transformed it into another Babidi wouldn`t have made the statement ?

So, when running water goes through a dem, the dem use the running water to fuel cars and light houses right? *sarcasm* Energy never disapear, it transform into a different form for usage. Lets says the M on Majin-controlled people are the so-called gate way to Majin Buu, the energy get turns into kinetic energy and goes into the M, after, it turns back into the useable energy for Majin Buu. And people you said who did not gave you evidence(like me) gave you real-live facts to use.

[Magneto]

Are you fucking daft? I've had nothing but logical arguments; you just refuse to accept any of them. But hey, if you don't like what I have to say, then that's your problem, not mine.

And for the record, I haven't "used the manga," (which apparently is a requirement in debating now Rolling Eyes) because it doesn't say anything about DBZ's psychics. But when a fictional world so closely resembles our own (and even calls their home planet "Earth") it's pretty much taken for granted that it follows the same basic rules as ours, with a few exceptions such as the ability to fly.

You`ve had logical arguments ? Maybe to a kid of your inferior intelligence it seemed logical .
And yes , the manga is a requierment in debates .

The energy is kinetic long before it ever reaches the Majin fighters. Just by the [quite literal] process of lifting a finger, you are generating kinetic energy. If the latter half of the revival process is really the same as what Spopovich did to Gohan, wouldn't the fighters have gotten tired from all of their Ki being, as you put it: directly absorbed?

Kid, don't make me laugh. I don't know what kinetic energy is, huh? Perhaps you could explain it to me then. Seriously, tell me what it is, because apparently I don't know and you do. Go ahead. Bestow your knowledge down upon me. Or maybe, you have no fucking clue what it means and my explanation flew over your head so you decided to try and tell me that I didn't know in attempt to hide your own ignorance? No but seriously, tell me how it works, professor. I'm all ears.

This has nothing to do with kinetic absorption since it wasn`t the energy absorbed by Buu . And I`m just gonna own you through some statements :

*before Vegeta fights PuiPui*

Babidi : Good ! PuiPui will take their energy

*Vegeta`s comment twoards PuiPui*

Vegeta : So if you cannot touch us you cannot take our energy

*after Babidi comments about the fact that Yamu and Spoppovitch gathered a lot of energy*

Dabura : Don`t be concerned , with the energy of our three friends it will be filled

*after Yakon is defeated and Dabura gets ready to fight*

Dabura : I alone will complete to fill the cocoon with Boo with their energy

*before Goku fights Majin Vegeta*

Kaioshin : It will be better than him being awoke after all your energy will be absorbed

*Dabura`s comment after Vegeta refuses to take Babidi`s orders*

Dabura : He will end up recovering the energy of his adversary

*Kaioshin`s comment*

Kaioshin : In this same moment the energy of Son Goku is absorbed by the cocoon

Those statements obviously prove that it`s the person`s energy that is absorbed by Buu and not the kinetic energy .

Frankly , I wanted to own you yesterday but I was really busy and didn`t have time to post all this lines . See ya kid

Only a toddler would fail so hard at comprehending what I wrote. I can't even use proper rhetoric on you because you have such poor a grasp on the English language. I shouldn't even have to explain myself.

Of-fucking-course I know that you dipshit; I was demonstrating a point. Let me highlight the key phrase in my post for you that you obviously missed entirely because you don't know how to read:

Only a toddler would fail so hard at comprehending what I wrote. I can't even use proper rhetoric on you because you have such poor a grasp on the English language. I shouldn't even have to explain myself.

Of-fucking-course I know that you dipshit; I was demonstrating a point. Let me highlight the key phrase in my post for you that you obviously missed entirely because you don't know how to read:
Quote:
so unless you're telling me that with each absorption Boo's outfit changed while his power remained exactly the same, it has to be a different type of energy

Do I really need to define the word "unless" for you?

So you`re insulting ? Honestly , I`m not really in the mood to lower myself at your level , so I`m just gonna ignore that . Besides , I don`t really wanna get banned for arguing with a retard .

It's funny how cool you think you're being when the reality is that no one here actually likes you.

I`m here to prove my points , not to be liked

EDIT: This will be my last post in this thread. I honestly don't care what Magneto has to say in response.

Well , there isn`t much here for you to do since you already got beaten .

[Magneto]

So, when running water goes through a dem, the dem use the running water to fuel cars and light houses right? *sarcasm* Energy never disapear, it transform into a different form for usage. Lets says the M on Majin-controlled people are the so-called gate way to Majin Buu, the energy get turns into kinetic energy and goes into the M, after, it turns back into the useable energy for Majin Buu. And people you said who did not gave you evidence(like me) gave you real-live facts to use.

Not really . Who says the energy needs to transform into anything in order to reach Boo`s body ? It doesn`t get turned into anything , the energy that Goku has is directly sent to make Boo stronger , no transformation involved .

[Mystic Jack]

Maybe this is just me, but I think this question has been answered many fold in here, so far it's just a pointless argument.

[Magneto]

Well , the answer is that it didn`t make him stronger and it is most likely that it made him weaker .

[SS2 Vegeto]

Heh. This is great. I haven't debated about this subject in a while, and this has really gotten my old blood boiling. I wanna take a shot at this head on now, Magneto.

If you don't mind, may we start from square one? Goku and Vegeta's evident fear of Shin Buu, in contrast to their reactions to Chibi Buu? I prefer to start with a counter-argument, so go ahead and open if you wish.

[Magneto]

Okay

So do you prefer to post your arguments and me to counter them or I`ll start using my arguments ?

[SS2 Vegeto]

We could start with your view of the situation, or what you find poses the largest problems for that argument. I think that would be both a good opening for you and an easy starting point for me.

[Magneto]

I changed my mind regarding how much time they underestimated Kid Buu . Well , I`m gonna start exposing my views from when Super Buu transformed into Kid Buu , to where the fight between Goku & Kid Buu ended .

When Good Buu was ripped from Super Buu`s body , the connection between him and Boo was ripped , thus South Kaioshin also was disconnected . Since South Kaioshin was no longer connected to Boo`s body , Kid Buu couldn`t have gotten the energy for his transformation into Buff Buu from anywhere except using his own energy which yet again proves my point about the fact that South Kaioshin couldn`t have made him stronger, and that Kid Buu`s energy was sufficient to transform into Buff Buu , and that it`s debatable if it actually made him weaker .
When Kid Buu first appears , they underestimate him , thus the comments about his size . But when Boo reveals what he truly is capable of , they panic . This also leads to the comment that Goku made about them making a plan until Kid Buu comes to the Kaioshin world to fight them , and also the comments about the fact that he doesn`t think they can do anything about him and that he has to go all out to have a chance . The fact that he played rock , papper , scissors with Vegeta made me think that he thought Vegeta would actually stand a chance against him , but eventually I realized that since he said that they should try and see if they can do anything against him , it wouldn`t matter who would go first , and him letting Vegeta wouldn`t be because he underestimated Boo . Then , follow the comments that Vegeta made , that Goku is the only one who can fight him , and if he were to fight he would be beaten instantly . Anyway , my point is that the comments they first made regarding Boo , when they first saw him , are nullified because it`s obvious they underestimated him .

[Black Mist]

Not trying to go off topic but... What is your deal Magneto it seems like 98% of your posts are in this topic claiming that you are the only true person who knows the answer to this question!

[Magneto]

Not trying to go off topic but... What is your deal Magneto it seems like 98% of your posts are in this topic claiming that you are the only true person who knows the answer to this question!

Mostly because my answer is the correct one , and nobody seems to be able to give me counter arguments or prove their points right .

[SS2 Vegeto]

I changed my mind regarding how much time they underestimated Kid Buu . Well , I`m gonna start exposing my views from when Super Buu transformed into Kid Buu , to where the fight between Goku & Kid Buu ended .

When Good Buu was ripped from Super Buu`s body , the connection between him and Boo was ripped , thus South Kaioshin also was disconnected . Since South Kaioshin was no longer connected to Boo`s body , Kid Buu couldn`t have gotten the energy for his transformation into Buff Buu from anywhere except using his own energy which yet again proves my point about the fact that South Kaioshin couldn`t have made him stronger, and that Kid Buu`s energy was sufficient to transform into Buff Buu , and that it`s debatable if it actually made him weaker .
When Kid Buu first appears , they underestimate him , thus the comments about his size . But when Boo reveals what he truly is capable of , they panic . This also leads to the comment that Goku made about them making a plan until Kid Buu comes to the Kaioshin world to fight them , and also the comments about the fact that he doesn`t think they can do anything about him and that he has to go all out to have a chance . The fact that he played rock , papper , scissors with Vegeta made me think that he thought Vegeta would actually stand a chance against him , but eventually I realized that since he said that they should try and see if they can do anything against him , it wouldn`t matter who would go first , and him letting Vegeta wouldn`t be because he underestimated Boo . Then , follow the comments that Vegeta made , that Goku is the only one who can fight him , and if he were to fight he would be beaten instantly . Anyway , my point is that the comments they first made regarding Boo , when they first saw him , are nullified because it`s obvious they underestimated him .

The brief appearance of the Buff Buu can also be viewed as a rapid degression, degeneration, not necessarily in power or related to power, but with the absence of the Good Buu, a collapse back to all that there was at the very start. The Buu that was removed was already a watered down incarnation, comprised of a pure innocence, in essence not the same being that appeared post absorbing both South and Dai Kaioshin. Already having been infused with this energy for day, a straight degression through this form to Chibi Buu is not farfetched.

After Goku's statement that he had better go all out, he also makes it a point that Vegeta might not get his turn if he moves right into super saiya-jin 3. Later, Goku basically agrees that he could deal away with Chibi Buu handily should he reach full power. On Goku being the only one who could beat him, he and Vegeta were the only ones alive in the first place. But recognizing that he would need to go full throttle in the first place shows that he, unlike Vegeta, hadn't entirely underestimated Buu's abilities. Furthermore, upon Majin Buu's hatching, it was also Goku of the two who had sensed something "infinitely deeper" within the creature, and I believe after such a display of the original Buu's nature that Goku could get quite a handle on it in this situation as well, as it seems he very well did. Yet, Goku was so adamant about the fact that he and Vegeta would stand no chance against Shin Buu that he wasn't even willing to try and fight him, and tried instead to talk Vegeta into fusing with him once again, despite Vegeta's insistence that he'd never fuse with him again. If Goku was willing to try and fight Chibi Buu on his own, yet would rather fuse with Vegeta (and permanently, since he mentioned using the potaras again) than try to fight Shin Buu on his own power, I think atleast, that the most obvious reason would be that Shin Buu is a form superior to Chibi Buu.

[Tyro]

After Goku's statement that he had better go all out, he also makes it a point that Vegeta might not get his turn if he moves right into super saiya-jin 3.

Just to add to what you said, Goku mentioned he'd better use full power to start out with, otherwise the entire universe would be doomed if he and Vegeta happened to lose. And to me that shows Goku not meaning "I'll have to use full power otherwise I'll lose entirely from the start" (because it is clear he was on an even level with Chibi Boo even when not at full power) but rather "I better try to actual finish him quickly because if I die along with Vegeta, there's nothing else we can do to stop him here."

[Magneto]

The brief appearance of the Buff Buu can also be viewed as a rapid degression, degeneration, not necessarily in power or related to power, but with the absence of the Good Buu, a collapse back to all that there was at the very start. The Buu that was removed was already a watered down incarnation, comprised of a pure innocence, in essence not the same being that appeared post absorbing both South and Dai Kaioshin. Already having been infused with this energy for day, a straight degression through this form to Chibi Buu is not farfetched.

After Goku's statement that he had better go all out, he also makes it a point that Vegeta might not get his turn if he moves right into super saiya-jin 3. Later, Goku basically agrees that he could deal away with Chibi Buu handily should he reach full power. On Goku being the only one who could beat him, he and Vegeta were the only ones alive in the first place. But recognizing that he would need to go full throttle in the first place shows that he, unlike Vegeta, hadn't entirely underestimated Buu's abilities. Furthermore, upon Majin Buu's hatching, it was also Goku of the two who had sensed something "infinitely deeper" within the creature, and I believe after such a display of the original Buu's nature that Goku could get quite a handle on it in this situation as well, as it seems he very well did. Yet, Goku was so adamant about the fact that he and Vegeta would stand no chance against Shin Buu that he wasn't even willing to try and fight him, and tried instead to talk Vegeta into fusing with him once again, despite Vegeta's insistence that he'd never fuse with him again. If Goku was willing to try and fight Chibi Buu on his own, yet would rather fuse with Vegeta (and permanently, since he mentioned using the potaras again) than try to fight Shin Buu on his own power, I think atleast, that the most obvious reason would be that Shin Buu is a form superior to Chibi Buu.

It doesn`t really matter how you view the degression from Super Buu to Kid Buu with Buff Buu appearing . The point is that Boo recived more power despite the fact that there was no source from where he could have gotten it besides Kid Boo , which means that he is stronger than Super Buu , and also the fact that South Kaioshin couldn`t have made him stronger due to the fact that Kid Buu`s energy level only was enough to obtain the Buff Buu transformation .
And yes , SSJ3 Goku at full power is stated to be able to defeat Kid Buu , that`s not really my point , since I also think SSJ3 Goku is stronger than Boo . The point is that when they first saw him , they underestimated him , thus their comments are nullified.
About the fact that Vegeta said Goku was the only one who can fight him and that nobody was alive at the moment , well as a matter of fact just moments sooner they mentioned the Dragonballs , with which they could have revived and brought both Gohan and Gotenks to fight Kid Buu .
This was also later suggested when everybody was alive. And this one brings another argument to my side since Goku said to bring both Gohan and Gotenks to help them fight against Kid Buu . And since he said to bring both of them , it means that individually they couldn`t beat him , and the fact that he says to help them it also accentuates the fact that even if they are both , they aren`t sure of winning.
Goku wanted to fuse with Vegeta because at that size , they couldn`t have possibly beaten Super Buu , thus the need for them . When Boo was at the same size with them Goku insinuated that they can beat him and find an exit . And why he broke the potara against Kid Buu ? Well , the answer is quite simple . First of all because he wasn`t in the same condition he was against Super Buu , meaning smaller than a flea , and second of all because he thought they had time to come up with a plan until Kid Buu came , because he didn`t know he learned instant transmission .

Just to add to what you said, Goku mentioned he'd better use full power to start out with, otherwise the entire universe would be doomed if he and Vegeta happened to lose. And to me that shows Goku not meaning "I'll have to use full power otherwise I'll lose entirely from the start" (because it is clear he was on an even level with Chibi Boo even when not at full power) but rather "I better try to actual finish him quickly because if I die along with Vegeta, there's nothing else we can do to stop him here."

You do know that by saying that , you`ve beat yourself ? They already mentioned the Dragonballs , so they could have brought Gohan and Gotenks anytime , yet he said that if they lose nothing else can stop Kid Buu ? And by Vegeta saying : "It finally starts ! A battle that will decide the fate of the entire universe/outer space ! The last fight ... !!" it just proves my point .

[SS2 Vegeto]

I don't view it as an issue of power at all. When the Buu of pure Innocence was removed, it triggered a rapid degression back to his original state. It did not need to have anything to do with Chibi Buu's ability, because Chibi Buu had not appeared yet, and the Good Buu had been charging him with that energy the entire day. Upon his removal, he simply passed through that form to arrive back at the very start of his being.

Vegeta first mentions the dragonballs (during the course of that fight) 36 pages after he first refers to Goku as the only one who can beat Buu. In that time, he never makes this statement again. In fact...I just checked. I don't see him ever making that statement again. Goku was alive, Vegeta was alive, and anyone else who was alive was completely useless in the fight...Vegeta serves only to buy time, and Goku can match Buu, and apparantly "obliterate him", should he reach full power. Only Goku can kill Buu.
Original japanese manga had Goku saying that he thought Vegeta revived everyone on Earth so that Gohan or the boys could come up to fight Buu (and believe me, he said OR, meaning that in his mind either one of them could do the job). Besides, Vegeta was risking a lot with having Goku use the Genki Dama because both other times it had been used it failed. He gave his reasons as to why, and none of those reasons included Gohan and/or Gotenks not being strong enough to beat Chibi Buu.
Them shrinking down as much as they did wouldn't have caused them to lose power in any way, since Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo were all shrunk down to the same size yet they were still supplying Buu with their full ki. To add to that, Vegetto makes a point of stating that he'd "kept his strength" upon being turned into candy. Do you suppose that he would be any weaker, should he be of the same size without any changes or alterations to his body? I wouldn't think so. I'd say he'd be just as strong as ever. Further, Goku seems anything but confident, come face to face with Shin Buu in his own body. Whereas he has no desire to attempt any sort of fusion against Chibi Buu, he panicks and and continues to stress the issue to Vegeta, who is completely decided on the fact that he will never be one with Goku again, in Shin Buu's case.

Vegeta: Now this looks like...it could be trouble...!
Goku: I told you to keep the potara on!! This would've been easy if we could combine!!
Shin Buu: ! (continued) ...So...You can't combine anymore...
Goku: RK?!
Vegeta: Idiot!! You couldn't keep your mouth shut?!!
Shin Buu: Hee hee hee...That's nice.
Goku and Vegeta: UH...!!
Goku: Try it -- and we'll blow a hole in your body!!

I'm really picking up a hint of desperation, here. They were practically wetting themselves. Looking it over, I don't see any signs of confidence in either of them, when faced with the problem of having to fight him. They continually try to find another way out. So why such a panick over someone they can just obliterate and solve the problem? When I look at this, I see two individuals just as worried about the problem staring them in the face as they had been when it was first brought up. To add even more to this, Majin Buu (Gotenks Prime) had already encountered Goku in super saiya-jin 3 state, and Shin Buu can both sense ki, and retains the memories of his previous forms. Yet upon Goku's inquiry of the necessity of defeating him to escape, Shin Buu states plainly: "You can't do it. You're gonna die."

On the "plan" point, it's true that they didn't believe that Chibi Buu could come there, but I have serious doubts that a permanent fusion would even be considered when it wasn't absolutely necessary.

[lets go swimming]

It doesn`t really matter how you view the degression from Super Buu to Kid Buu with Buff Buu appearing . The point is that Boo recived more power despite the fact that there was no source from where he could have gotten it besides Kid Boo , which means that he is stronger than Super Buu , and also the fact that South Kaioshin couldn`t have made him stronger due to the fact that Kid Buu`s energy level only was enough to obtain the Buff Buu transformation .

No matter how you want to rationalise it, it was a regression from the various absorptions back to the original buu. Its even explained in the manga.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j52/M ... w/buu3.jpg

All the kaioshins got ripped out at once when vegeta removed the good buu from super buu. Buu then reverts through the transformations back to his original form.

And yes , SSJ3 Goku at full power is stated to be able to defeat Kid Buu , that`s not really my point , since I also think SSJ3 Goku is stronger than Boo . The point is that when they first saw him , they underestimated him , thus their comments are nullified.

They didn't underestimate him that much, because they say that they can take him at first, and by your own admission, SSJ3 goku is stronger than buu.

About the fact that Vegeta said Goku was the only one who can fight him and that nobody was alive at the moment , well as a matter of fact just moments sooner they mentioned the Dragonballs , with which they could have revived and brought both Gohan and Gotenks to fight Kid Buu .
This was also later suggested when everybody was alive. And this one brings another argument to my side since Goku said to bring both Gohan and Gotenks to help them fight against Kid Buu . And since he said to bring both of them , it means that individually they couldn`t beat him , and the fact that he says to help them it also accentuates the fact that even if they are both , they aren`t sure of winning.

You've already said that SSJ3 goku is stronger than buu, but that gohan and gotenks aren't? Jesus

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j52/M ... w/buu1.jpg

Now obviously you think that by "like this" he's talking about being small, even though he references not being fused in the same panel. Or in the very next chapter goku and vegeta are completely unaware of how powerless they are inside of buu's body. That was a pretty common troll argument six years ago, but it just doesn't work anymore.

They're talking about their chances against the actuall super buu, which gohan manhandled and gotenks fought evenly against. Gohan > Gotenks > Goku.

Goku wanted to fuse with Vegeta because at that size , they couldn`t have possibly beaten Super Buu , thus the need for them . When Boo was at the same size with them Goku insinuated that they can beat him and find an exit . And why he broke the potara against Kid Buu ? Well , the answer is quite simple . First of all because he wasn`t in the same condition he was against Super Buu , meaning smaller than a flea , and second of all because he thought they had time to come up with a plan until Kid Buu came , because he didn`t know he learned instant transmission .

Actually, when buu appears inside his own body, vegeta comments that it could be trouble, and both vegeta and goku are sweating. Goku still sweating mind you says in as a question that they have to beat buu first. Then vegeta rips out the other buu.

He broke the potora because he Likes to rely on his own abilities, and they were both confident in SSJ3 beating buu. Which you apparently agree.

[Tyro]

You do know that by saying that , you`ve beat yourself ? They already mentioned the Dragonballs , so they could have brought Gohan and Gotenks anytime , yet he said that if they lose nothing else can stop Kid Buu ? And by Vegeta saying : "It finally starts ! A battle that will decide the fate of the entire universe/outer space ! The last fight ... !!" it just proves my point .

I love how you just declare yourself the winner of every topic. And feel the need to space in-between periods, and other punctuation. And as far as Goku knew, Gohan and the others were still passed out, and even after mentioning to have them come fight, Vegeta rejected the idea.

[Magneto]

I don't view it as an issue of power at all. When the Buu of pure Innocence was removed, it triggered a rapid degression back to his original state. It did not need to have anything to do with Chibi Buu's ability, because Chibi Buu had not appeared yet, and the Good Buu had been charging him with that energy the entire day. Upon his removal, he simply passed through that form to arrive back at the very start of his being.

It doesn`t really matter Kid Boo hadn`t appeared yet , the point is that nobody was connected to him anymore , thus the power that appeared was him all along . It doesn`t really matter Good Buu charged him up all day , because he was already disconnected when Buff Buu appeared , using Kid Buu`s power .

Vegeta first mentions the dragonballs (during the course of that fight) 36 pages after he first refers to Goku as the only one who can beat Buu. In that time, he never makes this statement again. In fact...I just checked. I don't see him ever making that statement again. Goku was alive, Vegeta was alive, and anyone else who was alive was completely useless in the fight...Vegeta serves only to buy time, and Goku can match Buu, and apparantly "obliterate him", should he reach full power. Only Goku can kill Buu.

I`m not talking about the fact that he made the statement after the fight , I`m talking about the fact that the Dragonballs were already mentioned before the fight with Kid Boo , so Vegeta knew that they could revive Gohan & Gotenks anytime , yet he said Goku is the only one who can fight him .

Original japanese manga had Goku saying that he thought Vegeta revived everyone on Earth so that Gohan or the boys could come up to fight Buu (and believe me, he said OR, meaning that in his mind either one of them could do the job). Besides, Vegeta was risking a lot with having Goku use the Genki Dama because both other times it had been used it failed. He gave his reasons as to why, and none of those reasons included Gohan and/or Gotenks not being strong enough to beat Chibi Buu.

You know , this is the 2nd time somebody says to me that Vegeta said OR when he said AND . So either you told him about this , he told you about this , or both of you have been told wrong .

Original Japanese Manga : http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=149qn5.jpg

The text from where Goku says to bring Gohan and Gotenks :
なんだわかつたぞ!ごはんやゴテシクスをいきかえらせてたたかつてもらおうつてんだ

The literal translation (I`m too lazy to get it right ) :

The [wa] which is what and it is!Boiled rice and [goteshikusu] it goes and the gill [se] [te] it is the connection which connection probably will receive high it is it is

In japanese Gohan means rice . So yeah , he says bring Gohan and Gotenks .

So stop using arguments you`ve heard/seen at somebody else , without checking it out yourself . I know a guy who used to do the same thing, using the arguments from the mfg forum , and when counter arguments came he blocked .

Them shrinking down as much as they did wouldn't have caused them to lose power in any way, since Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo were all shrunk down to the same size yet they were still supplying Buu with their full ki. To add to that, Vegetto makes a point of stating that he'd "kept his strength" upon being turned into candy. Do you suppose that he would be any weaker, should he be of the same size without any changes or alterations to his body? I wouldn't think so. I'd say he'd be just as strong as ever. Further, Goku seems anything but confident, come face to face with Shin Buu in his own body. Whereas he has no desire to attempt any sort of fusion against Chibi Buu, he panicks and and continues to stress the issue to Vegeta, who is completely decided on the fact that he will never be one with Goku again, in Shin Buu's case.

Vegeta: Now this looks like...it could be trouble...!
Goku: I told you to keep the potara on!! This would've been easy if we could combine!!
Shin Buu: ! (continued) ...So...You can't combine anymore...
Goku: RK?!
Vegeta: Idiot!! You couldn't keep your mouth shut?!!
Shin Buu: Hee hee hee...That's nice.
Goku and Vegeta: UH...!!
Goku: Try it -- and we'll blow a hole in your body!!

I'm really picking up a hint of desperation, here. They were practically wetting themselves. Looking it over, I don't see any signs of confidence in either of them, when faced with the problem of having to fight him. They continually try to find another way out. So why such a panick over someone they can just obliterate and solve the problem? When I look at this, I see two individuals just as worried about the problem staring them in the face as they had been when it was first brought up. To add even more to this, Majin Buu (Gotenks Prime) had already encountered Goku in super saiya-jin 3 state, and Shin Buu can both sense ki, and retains the memories of his previous forms. Yet upon Goku's inquiry of the necessity of defeating him to escape, Shin Buu states plainly: "You can't do it. You're gonna die."

On the "plan" point, it's true that they didn't believe that Chibi Buu could come there, but I have serious doubts that a permanent fusion would even be considered when it wasn't absolutely necessary.

Who said anything about losing power ? I said that at that size they couldn`t have beaten Buu , nothing reffering to their powerlevel . By that comments , Goku said that it would be easier if they fused outside with the potara (since potara couldn`t be used inside Boo`s body) than fighting Boo inside his own body . I see nothing wrong with that . As for Super Buu saying that , well Goku also insinuated that they can beat him and find an exit . Besides , why wouldn`t Boo be confident since he was fighting inside his own body ?
And when you are smaller than a flea, as they were against Super Boo , potara was absolutley necessary .

No matter how you want to rationalise it, it was a regression from the various absorptions back to the original buu. Its even explained in the manga.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j52/M ... w/buu3.jpg

All the kaioshins got ripped out at once when vegeta removed the good buu from super buu. Buu then reverts through the transformations back to his original form.

Read my posts before writing the same thing . Good Boo was already disconected from Boo`s body , and all that remained was Kid Boo`s body , and despite that he transformed into Buff Buu . Which means , that Kid Boo`s power was enough to transform into Buff Boo , thus South Kaioshin couldn`t have made him stronger and Kid Boo > Super Boo .

They didn't underestimate him that much, because they say that they can take him at first, and by your own admission, SSJ3 goku is stronger than buu.

As a matter of fact they did , proven by later statements , which i`m not about to repeat .

You've already said that SSJ3 goku is stronger than buu, but that gohan and gotenks aren't? Jesus

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j52/M ... w/buu1.jpg

Now obviously you think that by "like this" he's talking about being small, even though he references not being fused in the same panel. Or in the very next chapter goku and vegeta are completely unaware of how powerless they are inside of buu's body. That was a pretty common troll argument six years ago, but it just doesn't work anymore.

They're talking about their chances against the actuall super buu, which gohan manhandled and gotenks fought evenly against. Gohan > Gotenks > Goku.

Without being fused , at that size they couldn`t have won , thus the comment Goku made about Vegeta breaking the potara . And the rest you wrote is pretty much useless , so yeah .. Goku > Kid Buu > Gohan > Gotenks .

Actually, when buu appears inside his own body, vegeta comments that it could be trouble, and both vegeta and goku are sweating. Goku still sweating mind you says in as a question that they have to beat buu first. Then vegeta rips out the other buu.

He broke the potora because he Likes to rely on his own abilities, and they were both confident in SSJ3 beating buu. Which you apparently agree.

Goku suggests that they can beat him and find an exit , so this doesn`t really sound like "desperation" . And I already replied to everything you wrote there in SS2 Vegeto`s post , I`m not going to repeat myself .

I love how you just declare yourself the winner of every topic. And feel the need to space in-between periods, and other punctuation. And as far as Goku knew, Gohan and the others were still passed out, and even after mentioning to have them come fight, Vegeta rejected the idea.

That`s because I am . And grammar remarks are signs of desperation . And Goku mentioned bringing both of them to Vegeta , thus individually neither one of them were strong enough to beat him .