Insights and Questions from the New Special

[Spazicon]

...It would see that way. They did it quicker and I doubt it even has a time limit (Pure speculation).

In an earlier post, I called it “Fusion Vogue” because they just performed a pose and then “Merged”. If Toei had thought of this new fusion earlier it would have made the Super Saiyan 4 fusion a lot easier and a stronger Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta (if that was even possible), during the battle against Yi Xing Long.

I wanna say, that "Fusion" (keeping in mind, they yelled "Merge" when posing, and not Fusion) was something only they, or other beings of their lineage, could perform. And even if it was possible for other races to pull it off, you probably wouldn't get Gogeta out of it, you'd get someone/something else (ala Vegetto via Potara, and Gogeta via Fusion Dance).

EDIT - And about he whole Freeza, and Abo and Cado being as strong as them comment Tarble made. You guys could look at it this way, in spite of Freeza's rambling on about no one seeing this form, once he transformed, there's a period of time where his power level and final form, was seen, and could be sensed, by others. From Transformation, to death, to being repaired, and arriving on Earth, Freeza's last form was no longer hidden/secret.

Also, Tarble knew about Freeza's defeat. He had to have known about Freeza's transformations (as did Vegeta to an extent), and factored that into the equation.

[VegettoEX]

I wanna say, that "Fusion" (keeping in mind, they yelled "Merge" when posing, and not Fusion) was something only they, or other beings of their lineage, could perform. And even if it was possible for other races to pull it off, you probably wouldn't get Gogeta out of it, you'd get someone/something else (ala Vegetto via Potara, and Gogeta via Fusion Dance).

For the Hell of tossing it out there, they yell "gattai" when they merge, which is the same word used to describe #13's "integration" with #14 & #15.

Then again, they split apart (at some point) since we see them individually with the radishes at the end...

[Spazicon]

I wanna say, that "Fusion" (keeping in mind, they yelled "Merge" when posing, and not Fusion) was something only they, or other beings of their lineage, could perform. And even if it was possible for other races to pull it off, you probably wouldn't get Gogeta out of it, you'd get someone/something else (ala Vegetto via Potara, and Gogeta via Fusion Dance).

For the Hell of tossing it out there, they yell "gattai" when they merge, which is the same word used to describe #13's "integration" with #14 & #15.

Then again, they split apart (at some point) since we see them individually with the radishes at the end...

Indeed. Gattai is also used to represent "combine" as well. Just worth noting, the Saiyans never used "gattai" when fusing (to my knowledge at least).

[Yamcha_krillin]

...It would see that way. They did it quicker and I doubt it even has a time limit (Pure speculation).

In an earlier post, I called it “Fusion Vogue” because they just performed a pose and then “Merged”. If Toei had thought of this new fusion earlier it would have made the Super Saiyan 4 fusion a lot easier and a stronger Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta (if that was even possible), during the battle against Yi Xing Long.

I wanna say, that "Fusion" (keeping in mind, they yelled "Merge" when posing, and not Fusion) was something only they, or other beings of their lineage, could perform. And even if it was possible for other races to pull it off, you probably wouldn't get Gogeta out of it, you'd get someone/something else (ala Vegetto via Potara, and Gogeta via Fusion Dance).

EDIT - And about he whole Freeza, and Abo and Cado being as strong as them comment Tarble made. You guys could look at it this way, in spite of Freeza's rambling on about no one seeing this form, once he transformed, there's a period of time where his power level and final form, was seen, and could be sensed, by others. From Transformation, to death, to being repaired, and arriving on Earth, Freeza's last form was no longer hidden/secret.

Also, Tarble knew about Freeza's defeat. He had to have known about Freeza's transformations (as did Vegeta to an extent), and factored that into the equation.

Table can't sense power levels since he used a scouter to measure Goku's power, so he wouldn't be abel to sense Freeza's other transformations.

[Spazicon]

Scouter, word of mouth. There's an abundance of scenarios one could run with.

[Yamcha_krillin]

Table didn't even know that a fighter can raise his battle power. He was like Raditz when he came to earth for the first time, relying on his scouter to do all the work.

[spikemcruffy]

j

[Herms]

For the Hell of tossing it out there, they yell "gattai" when they merge, which is the same word used to describe #13's "integration" with #14 & #15.

Then again, they split apart (at some point) since we see them individually with the radishes at the end...

Indeed. Gattai is also used to represent "combine" as well. Just worth noting, the Saiyans never used "gattai" when fusing (to my knowledge at least).

It's also used to refer to the effect of Fusion dance and the potara (and the two No.17s' fusion in GT, Pilaf and co.'s three robots combining, and lots of other random stuff). Pilaf's robots are the only case I can think of offhand where they yell "Gattai" before merging, though (but it's been pretty long since I've seen GT).

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

Table didn't even know that a fighter can raise his battle power. He was like Raditz when he came to earth for the first time, relying on his scouter to do all the work.

Nappa did three "raising power" moments in the final fight. There really seems to be a different between "controlling Ki" and what Frieza and Nappa do during their respective fights.

[Saiyan-Professor]

I know now watching the end of this special.
That dragonball wil never show again in a serie so sad.

I think if GT had never been made we might stand a better chance. It kind of killed the starting point for Toriyama to work off of. I mean, that's what this special is... a contiuation of his ideas. He would either have to be forced into the concepts thought up in GT (which royaly messed up many things by it's end for it to continue) or just pretend it never existed…

I seriously doubt that because Toriyama does not take all this as serious as most fans with their canon wars. He is about the money and Dragonball GT pulls in money. It may not be as much as the first two parts but it still makes money. If he was to ignore it then his royalty checks will not be as big as it usually would be. I think to appease the fans that dislike GT he participated in the DBO project and created an alternate ending besides getting more money. Any future endeavors concerning the Z-characters in animated form would probably be in the 10-year gap before Uub’s appearance and the 5 years right before GT.

For the Hell of tossing it out there, they yell "gattai" when they merge, which is the same word used to describe #13's "integration" with #14 & #15.

Then again, they split apart (at some point) since we see them individually with the radishes at the end...

Indeed. Gattai is also used to represent "combine" as well. Just worth noting, the Saiyans never used "gattai" when fusing (to my knowledge at least).

It's also used to refer to the effect of Fusion dance and the potara (and the two No.17s' fusion in GT, Pilaf and co.'s three robots combining, and lots of other random stuff). Pilaf's robots are the only case I can think of offhand where they yell "Gattai" before merging, though (but it's been pretty long since I've seen GT).

So what would we call Abo and Cado’s coming together to make it distinct from #13’s Integration, the Metamoran Fusion Dance and the Potara Fusion and so on? The only thing that I can think of is to call it “Merge” or “Merging”.

[Bussani]

The word 'gattai' for combining is used a lot in Super Sentai shows too. I often take it's use in things like this as a reference to that. The posing fits especially well in that case too.

[Yamcha_krillin]

when Avo and Cado “Merge” (their version of dance fusion or should we call theirs “Vogue Fusion” ) into Aka Super Saiyan 1 Gotenks could not finish him off.

Gotenks was probably playing the whole time.

[Yi Xing Long]

The word 'gattai' for combining is used a lot in Super Sentai shows too. I often take it's use in things like this as a reference to that. The posing fits especially well in that case too.

In Shaman King they use "Hyoi Gattai" as a sort of temporary "soul fusion." It is later replaced by the more powerful Oversoul later on though.

[Saiyan-Professor]

when Avo and Cado “Merge” (their version of dance fusion or should we call theirs “Vogue Fusion” ) into Aka Super Saiyan 1 Gotenks could not finish him off.

Gotenks was probably playing the whole time.

Are you sure? The mood suddenly changed after he hit Aka as a Super Saiyan. Everyone wanted to leave but Piccolo, Vegeta and Kakarrot knew that the battle was not over yet. One of Gotenks higher levels could have finished Aka but he did not make and effort to transform.

[Zenkai Power]

when Avo and Cado “Merge” (their version of dance fusion or should we call theirs “Vogue Fusion” ) into Aka Super Saiyan 1 Gotenks could not finish him off.

Gotenks was probably playing the whole time.

Are you sure? The mood suddenly changed after he hit Aka as a Super Saiyan. Everyone wanted to leave but Piccolo, Vegeta and Kakarrot knew that the battle was not over yet. One of Gotenks higher levels could have finished Aka but he did not make and effort to transform.

Well if you wanna get realistic, lol, it's because the special needed to give Goku and Vegeta a chance to act. But I guess you could infer that Goku and Vegeta let Gotenks play until a real threat appeared and then they took control before Gotenks had a chance to do anything so that nothing bad happened.

Afterall, they all knew there was no serious threat as long as they didn't let the bad guys go too far.

[Travis Touchdown]

I don't see how 18 learning how to sense ki is so unbelievable when 17 & 18 both donated ki to the Spirit Bomb in the manga.

Also I wonder why Goku is so put off of the idea of farming with Chi-chi. It's something they can do together as husband and wife and as for training, didn't Goku's real training begin with odd jobs that included farming? He could come up with something to do to improve himself.

[Bussani]

I don't see how 18 learning how to sense ki is so unbelievable when 17 & 18 both donated ki to the Spirit Bomb in the manga.

This is something I've wondered before. 17 and 18 are mostly organic, so it's odd that they don't give off ki. It does seem that they have some kind of life force to give to Genki Dama though. Does that mean they do have ki, they just don't use it, so it's like it's constantly hidden?

[Dayspring]

I don't see how 18 learning how to sense ki is so unbelievable when 17 & 18 both donated ki to the Spirit Bomb in the manga.

This is something I've wondered before. 17 and 18 are mostly organic, so it's odd that they don't give off ki. It does seem that they have some kind of life force to give to Genki Dama though. Does that mean they do have ki, they just don't use it, so it's like it's constantly hidden?

I figure Gero designed it that way so they couldn't be detected by Goku and the others.

[Bussani]

I figure Gero designed it that way so they couldn't be detected by Goku and the others.

Yeah, sounds plausible. They don't use their ki anyway, so why not hide it? If he could invent a way to absorb ki then it wouldn't be surprising if he found a way to suppress it.

[Tsukento]

So where is the ending for the special, wasn't it gonna be "Orange hero" jealkb?

This. I was wondering about that earlier.

Anyone got an explanation for this?