Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Preach! I just find it strange how fans of a series where a scientist was able to create beings stronger than the legendary Super Saiyan with simple earth technology are suddenly finding so many things to draw the line at. It's symptomatic of a stuck in the mud fanbase resistant to anything that will make them have to rethink elements of the story. It's like, do you guys want an interesting story or a 90 minute, masturbatory squash fest that preserves your lists?
I know the common defense will be that it's the fault of the writers bringing an old villain back in the first place, but judging from the landscape of this thread for the past 100 pages, I think a new villian would draw plenty of complaints too, simply for disrupting the mythology even further by introducing more characters who have been lurking in obscurity that put all of the stuff we've seen in the series to shame. Look at all of the heat Beerus catches for being so much stronger than everybody else before him.
Last edited by jjgp1112 on Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words? Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up! Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes! Cold World (Fanfic) "It ain't never too late to stop bein' a bitch." - Chad Lamont Butler
There's a ship with thousands of alien soldiers attacking Earth, why the fuck did Toriyama not choose all the Z-Warriors that he already created? THIS would really be the time for even the Earthlings to get some wins.
While Tien, Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin and Muten Roshi are fighting against tons of soldiers.. Buu, Android 18, Yamcha, Chaozu, Goten og Trunks are just.. chillin'.
MagicBox wrote: All I hope is that Kuririn and Tenshinhan win. They haven't gotten a real win since the Saibaimen. They deserve it. This movie seems to be giving them *real* fights, which is going to be so much fun to watch if everything is tastefully done. I'm going to be very sad if Yamcha and Chaozu (the ones who REALLY deserve a win) aren't in on the action.
I'm thinking after everyone in the trailer is defeated, the B Team is called in: Android 18, Mr. Buu, Yamcha, Trunks and Goten.
Don't forget the 208 lbs heavy weight world champion and people's Saviour Mr Satan
Preach! I just find it strange how fans of a series where a scientist was able to create beings stronger than the legendary Super Saiyan with simple earth technology are suddenly finding so many things to draw the line at. It's symptomatic of a stuck in the mud fanbase resistant to anything that will make them have to rethink elements of the story. It's like, do you guys want an interesting story or a 90 minute, masturbatory squash fest that preserves your lists?
I know the common defense will be that it's the fault of the writers bringing an old villain back in the first place, but judging from the landscape of this thread for the past 100 pages, I think that would draw plenty of complaints too, simply for disrupting the mythology even further by introducing more characters who have been lurking in obscurity that put all of the stuff we've seen in the series to shame. Look at all of the heat Beerus catches for being so much stronger than everybody else before him.
This, this and more this. People complaining about consistency REALLY need to reread this series. Stuff like the androids, the hyperbolic time chamber, the concept of zenkai in general, and countless other plot holes should be keeping you up all night if consistency is really what you're in this for. Everyone needs to relax and at least wait for the film before getting their panties in a twist. Stuck in the mud indeed.
A movie starring a strong new villain who did nothing to stir the continuity pot would be average at best, even if studio Trigger themselves animated it. It would just be movie 12 all over again; how hard is this to understand?
MagicBox wrote:I have such fond memories of the (mostly) cautious optimism and (mostly) innocent excitement as we discovered more about "Battle Of Gods," in which the only in-universe thing people wouldn't shut up about was Gohan's hair. The relentless cynicism on display here with every new promotional image is unbearable. Having to read assumption after assumption, which leads to complaint after complaint, knowing that we have zero context for how any of this relates to the movie, is beyond taxing. I notice it's coming from (mostly) new members. It's toxic, it's killing the conversation, and I'm astounded that these people aren't self-aware of the destruction they're causing. We know nothing about the grunts, their power, what Sorbet's ring does, etc. There's nothing that says these guys aren't allowed to pose a threat. It's yet another instance of people dismissing a new concept just because the original series didn't have it. Formidable grunts. What a concept! What, did you guys just want to see the side characters effortlessly knocking them aside for 90 minutes? Wouldn't a more challenging fight be more entertaining? If all of this is handled well, then it'll provide an even greater payoff when Kuririn, Tenshinhan, and Piccolo (hopefully) beat them. I'm intrigued by this revelation. Maybe I won't enjoy it once I see the finished film, but I haven't seen the finished film so I can't jump to conclusions yet.
jjgp1112 wrote:I just find it strange how fans of a series where a scientist was able to create beings stronger than the legendary Super Saiyan with simple earth technology are suddenly finding so many things to draw the line at. It's symptomatic of a stuck in the mud fanbase resistant to anything that will make them have to rethink elements of the story. It's like, do you guys want an interesting story or a 90 minute, masturbatory squash fest that preserves your lists?
I know the common defense will be that it's the fault of the writers bringing an old villain back in the first place, but judging from the landscape of this thread for the past 100 pages, I think that would draw plenty of complaints too, simply for disrupting the mythology even further by introducing more characters who have been lurking in obscurity that put all of the stuff we've seen in the series to shame. Look at all of the heat Beerus catches for being so much stronger than everybody else before him.
MagicBox and jjgp1112 just beautifully summed everything wrong with the modern day DB fanbase. Many people want Dragon Ball to change yet at the same time, want it to stay the same.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Freeza's army obviously trained after Freeza, the Ginyu Corps and all the top generals died on Namek. Vegeta destroyed the remnants of the army in anime filler, but not in the manga, so that means a hostile, angry, militaristic Empire was left to itself for twenty years while Goku and co. were doing their stuff on Earth. They didn't vanish just because their leader was killed.
I have absolutely no issue whatsoever with Toriyama making changes. I loved BoG, and the fact Lord Beerus was much stronger than everyone, it made a refreshing change to see Goku defeated.
I'd prefer Vegeta not be the one to defeat Frieza in Fukkatsu no F, but have no problem with Frieza returning, or the soldiers actually giving the Z fighters a run for their money, it's great.
Again, I love the sound of everything I've read and seen so far, the idea of Vegeta defeating Frieza is not something I'd prefer to happen, all I'm saying.
Even in the anime, it's unlikely Vegeta killed literally everybody under Cold's Empire, since a fair amount were shown to still be around at that point.
Jaetinh wrote:There's a ship with thousands of alien soldiers attacking Earth, why the fuck did Toriyama not choose all the Z-Warriors that he already created? THIS would really be the time for even the Earthlings to get some wins.
While Tenshinhan, Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin and Muten Roshi are fighting against tons of soldiers.. Buu, Android 18, Yamcha, Chaozu, Goten og Trunks are just.. chillin'.
I'd say it's rather hasty to assume that none of those other characters fight simply because we haven't seen screenshots of them fighting yet.
It's been said a few times lately, but it probably bears repeating: an awful lot of this thread boils down to people assuming something is true based on little evidence and then complaining about the thing they've assumed is true. This strikes me as a big waste of everybody's time.
At the very least, if you're not happy about how so far there's been no sign of Boo/18/Goten/etc playing a role in the movie, it makes more sense to express that by going "Geez, why haven't Boo/18/Goten/etc appeared in any screenshots yet? Are they not in the movie? That would suck!", rather than "Why did Toriyama choose not to include Boo/18/Goten/etc in the movie?! Why are they not fighting when all those other characters are fighting?!" Let's wait for confirmation of X before complaining about X.
Ummm, is it so hard to understand that maybe they just got stronger soldiers?. I mean the universe is pretty big, and with Majin Buu not being a problem, there should be enough time to train. Besides there are clearly weaker soldiers, some that Krillin and Master Roshi can Defeat. it's not so unreasonable that they got stronger ones, real life army get new recruits every year.
Last edited by Black_Liger on Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There's room for only one snake, and one big boss.
I'm still looking forward to the movie, despite the skepticism. Freeza coming back and kicking ass and taking names like he should be, Beerus and Whis having central roles again, the supporting cast getting in on the action again (Piccolo, Roshi, Tien and Krillin) and best of all so far, Freeza's grunt army actually putting up a fight against the Z-Fighters. Seriously, why did it take so long for Freeza's army in general to actually seem like a genuine threat?
TheGmGoken wrote:
it made a refreshing change to see Goku defeated.
Goku has LOST every single fight since Freeza. It's actually refreshing to see Goku WIN a fight now.
Goku defeated Yakon and Pure Boo.
And if including the movies, he's also defeated Hirudegarn, Android 13 and Broly.
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
I assumed Trunks and Goten not being shown in the trailer was due to their new character designs being a big reveal or something like that. They should be getting noticeably older at this point.
Goku has LOST every single fight since Freeza. It's actually refreshing to see Goku WIN a fight now.
Not if you see the previous movies
Sleeping until the tournament is over.
Spoiler:
Araki wrote:
These days people start throwing the words "filler" and "silce of life" everytime characters aren't punching each other. No matter if something is moving the plot or there's character exposition.
Imagine if DB started these days. It would go like this:
"hey, what's happening in Dragon Ball today?"
"Goku wants Mutenroshi to train him, so he's bringing him some chicks now."
"oh i see, just slice of life filler then. skippable. "
In Brightest Day wrote:I assumed Trunks and Goten not being shown in the trailer was due to their new character designs being a big reveal or something like that. They should be getting noticeably older at this point.
The Japanese media usually LOVE to tease new stuff, like when they teased Super Saiyan God and even showed a silhouette of it before it was revealed (it was actually a silhouette of an existing Goku drawing, but it was labeled as being SSG). Trunks and Goten on the other hand are not only not shown but also not even mentioned at all, so at this point I fully expect them to not appear in the film. But I'd love to be proven wrong.
TheGmGoken wrote:
Movies weren't written by Toriyama and most don't even count the movies unless it's convenient for them.
Right, but still, they are movies, and Goku always wins on them, even though BoG and FnF are Toriyama movies it doesn't take the fact that Goku haven't lost in the movies until now.
Sleeping until the tournament is over.
Spoiler:
Araki wrote:
These days people start throwing the words "filler" and "silce of life" everytime characters aren't punching each other. No matter if something is moving the plot or there's character exposition.
Imagine if DB started these days. It would go like this:
"hey, what's happening in Dragon Ball today?"
"Goku wants Mutenroshi to train him, so he's bringing him some chicks now."
"oh i see, just slice of life filler then. skippable. "
I honestly expect them to appear at the verrry end of the film after Frieza is already defeated. A "what did I miss?" moment. Frieza seeing Trunks after being beaten would make him shit his pants.
Last edited by fadeddreams5 on Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
Would you guys say that more people outside of Japan know of this movies existence compared to when Battle of Gods was 2 months out?
I'd say so, I think Battle of Gods coming out as seen a bit of a revived interest in the series. I don't remember seeing as many videos with as many views related to BoG that this movie has.
