- Tien and Piccolo have better, more fulfilling redemption arcs than Vegeta, despite the arcs being much shorter, and (per my signature) Tien and Piccolo were both more true rivals for Goku than Vegeta.
Frieza Saga Gohan is the best Gohan.
King Piccolo is a better, more intelligent villain than Frieza
While Goku's core personality is a constant, he has great character development throughout DB/Z, especially from the moment he meets Bulma all the way through the Frieza saga.
Unpopular DB opinions
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
My (most likely) unpopular opinions:
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Following up:
- SSJ2 Cell Saga Gohan and Ultimate Gohan are the least interesting versions of Gohan in Z.
I love Majin Vegeta, but it's ridiculous how he can kill a stadium of people as something of a mid-life crisis, and that it's somehow OK because he then self-destructs to fight Buu, and because the people can be wished back anyway. As far as redemption arcs go, Vegeta really got off easily when he's consistently been a terrible person up to this point.
Yamcha is cool.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Nice joke, but no... Bardock: the Father of Goku had more depth that the man himself could bring for his own series and History of Trunks that was a much better improved version from the lousy attempt from Toriyama to explain a character's backstory.DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:40 pmToei sucks at writing plotlines when it comes to Dragon Ball so stories more character-driven are their specialty.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
When they have a base to work with, they're good but when it comes to writing their own plots, it usually turns out flimsy.Noah wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:26 pmNice joke, but no... Bardock: the Father of Goku had more depth that the man himself could bring for his own series and History of Trunks that was a much better improved version from the lousy attempt from Toriyama to explain a character's backstory.DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:40 pmToei sucks at writing plotlines when it comes to Dragon Ball so stories more character-driven are their specialty.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
It's ridiculous, but Dragon Ball is a ridiculous series.Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:02 pm I love Majin Vegeta, but it's ridiculous how he can kill a stadium of people as something of a mid-life crisis, and that it's somehow OK because he then self-destructs to fight Buu, and because the people can be wished back anyway. As far as redemption arcs go, Vegeta really got off easily when he's consistently been a terrible person up to this point.
Vegeta may or may not have gotten off easy, but ultimately DB is all about getting second chances. So it fits thematically.
I wouldn't say he was consistently terrible. I think he got less terrible with each passing arc. By the start of the Boo saga, I wouldn't even call him a bad person anymore.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
A good person doesn't have a mid-life crisis equivalent of giving in to your evil nature and blowing up people. I used to see it this way too, but I would say Vegeta was still pretty awful by the time of the Buu saga. He just fell into a more domesticated role because Goku wasn't around anymore. Sure, there were slivers of goodness there, but I wouldn't say he was a good person.MyVisionity wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:56 pmIt's ridiculous, but Dragon Ball is a ridiculous series.Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:02 pm I love Majin Vegeta, but it's ridiculous how he can kill a stadium of people as something of a mid-life crisis, and that it's somehow OK because he then self-destructs to fight Buu, and because the people can be wished back anyway. As far as redemption arcs go, Vegeta really got off easily when he's consistently been a terrible person up to this point.
Vegeta may or may not have gotten off easy, but ultimately DB is all about getting second chances. So it fits thematically.
I wouldn't say he was consistently terrible. I think he got less terrible with each passing arc. By the start of the Boo saga, I wouldn't even call him a bad person anymore.
Dragon Ball being a ridiculous series is why I accept it. That, and those were the first episodes I watched of DBZ, so I'm nostalgic for them; I still genuinely enjoy them to this day. And second chances is a common theme as well. That being said, fans consistently make more excuses for Vegeta's bad behavior than just about any other character in the series, simply because of how popular he is.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Porunga thought Vegeta was a great person but would Enma Daio?
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:02 pm SSJ2 Cell Saga Gohan and Ultimate Gohan are the least interesting versions of Gohan in Z.
Agreed 100% on both of those statementsDemon Prince Piccolo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:06 pm King Piccolo is a better, more intelligent villain than Frieza
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Enma probably don't care whether someone is good or bad, just how they lived their lives. The only thing he decides is where your soul goes. Vegeta would have probably gone to Hell under normal circumstances, even if Porunga thought he was ok.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
The reason Emma kept Vegeta is the same way Toriyama kept Vegeta : he was useful. Good or bad, he was Earth's second strongest.
ShadowWolf87 wrote:Freeza beat Goku, beat Vegeta, and destroyed the Earth. Even if no one else knows it, who does? Goku.
Who gets told it's his fault for being so careless? Goku.
Who has to live with that similar to how he wanted to make Freeza live with the fact he'd been beaten by what he considered trash, and have to live with that shame? Goku.
Freeza got the perfect revenge.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Actually, Vegeta went to hell after his sacrifice. It's only after he fought alongside the others against Kid Buu, squashed the beef with Goku, andwished back everyone (except for evil people) that he was considered a good guy.Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:02 pmI love Majin Vegeta, but it's ridiculous how he can kill a stadium of people as something of a mid-life crisis, and that it's somehow OK because he then self-destructs to fight Buu, and because the people can be wished back anyway. As far as redemption arcs go, Vegeta really got off easily when he's consistently been a terrible person up to this point.
Yamcha is cool.
Also, Yamcha is indeed cool.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
You're right on the point about Vegeta going to hell. I guess I notice a lot of Vegeta fans excusing his actions at the 25th Budokai in particular. Glad to see another Yamcha fan, lol.DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:20 amActually, Vegeta went to hell after his sacrifice. It's only after he fought alongside the others against Kid Buu, squashed the beef with Goku, andwished back everyone (except for evil people) that he was considered a good guy.Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:02 pmI love Majin Vegeta, but it's ridiculous how he can kill a stadium of people as something of a mid-life crisis, and that it's somehow OK because he then self-destructs to fight Buu, and because the people can be wished back anyway. As far as redemption arcs go, Vegeta really got off easily when he's consistently been a terrible person up to this point.
Yamcha is cool.
Also, Yamcha is indeed cool.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Did Vegeta actually go to Hell? The last time I checked the manga, King Yenma just kept his soul intact "just in case" and gave him a body (a special privilege for those for certain people in the afterlife). At best, Vegeta was kept in limbo as his soul wasn't cleansed and reincarneted like the rest for... reasons.Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:24 pmYou're right on the point about Vegeta going to hell. I guess I notice a lot of Vegeta fans excusing his actions at the 25th Budokai in particular. Glad to see another Yamcha fan, lol.DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:20 amActually, Vegeta went to hell after his sacrifice. It's only after he fought alongside the others against Kid Buu, squashed the beef with Goku, andwished back everyone (except for evil people) that he was considered a good guy.Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:02 pmI love Majin Vegeta, but it's ridiculous how he can kill a stadium of people as something of a mid-life crisis, and that it's somehow OK because he then self-destructs to fight Buu, and because the people can be wished back anyway. As far as redemption arcs go, Vegeta really got off easily when he's consistently been a terrible person up to this point.
Yamcha is cool.
Also, Yamcha is indeed cool.
Spoiler:
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Yes. Vegeta was just lucky he didn't serve his punishment for long given the circumstances.Lord Beerus wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:33 pmDid Vegeta actually go to Hell?Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:24 pmYou're right on the point about Vegeta going to hell. I guess I notice a lot of Vegeta fans excusing his actions at the 25th Budokai in particular. Glad to see another Yamcha fan, lol.DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:20 am
Actually, Vegeta went to hell after his sacrifice. It's only after he fought alongside the others against Kid Buu, squashed the beef with Goku, andwished back everyone (except for evil people) that he was considered a good guy.
Also, Yamcha is indeed cool.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Just to clarify, Vegeta was considered bad enough to go to Hell when he blew himself up to try and stop Majin Boo, but the implication is that he’s officially a full-fledged good guy by the end of the story, which the DBS era seems to support.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
I don't think they're unpopular at all. I agree with all of those.Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:06 pm My (most likely) unpopular opinions:
- Tien and Piccolo have better, more fulfilling redemption arcs than Vegeta, despite the arcs being much shorter, and (per my signature) Tien and Piccolo were both more true rivals for Goku than Vegeta.
Frieza Saga Gohan is the best Gohan.
King Piccolo is a better, more intelligent villain than Frieza
While Goku's core personality is a constant, he has great character development throughout DB/Z, especially from the moment he meets Bulma all the way through the Frieza saga.
Interesting how you draw comparisons between King Piccolo and Freeza. Never thought of those. To me, Freeza got less interested once he lost his politeness and sanity.
As for Majin Vegeta; from a character standpoint he''s not that interesting but he has a cool look and that's what attracts most people to his character.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Lol well I tend to see people constantly ragging on Frieza Saga Gohan for his hair, and for not winning against a big bad, despite the great character moments he had. Fans seem to automatically default to Cell Saga Gohan, despite him having next-to-no agency; I feel like he's so popular because of his cool look, SSJ2, and him getting the win . King Piccolo/Piccolo Jr. and Frieza are my favorite villains, so I suppose that's what prompted that comparison lol. But I do give the edge to Piccolo because his plan was sound and logical. He had less reason than Frieza (who knew of the SSJ legend) to believe that Goku would ever be a problem to him. And I love that he killed Shenlong. I enjoy the Majin Vegeta character arc (and, as you said, the look especially), but it's essentially Vegeta experiencing a mid-life crisis because he can't slaughter innocent people without regretting it later.Jord wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:20 am I don't think they're unpopular at all. I agree with all of those.
Interesting how you draw comparisons between King Piccolo and Freeza. Never thought of those. To me, Freeza got less interested once he lost his politeness and sanity.
As for Majin Vegeta; from a character standpoint he''s not that interesting but he has a cool look and that's what attracts most people to his character.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Those are some excellent points. Gohan raging when Kuririn seemingly gets killed and overwhelming even Frieza is still one of my favorite moments in the show. You know he won't kill Frieza but there is that little sliver of doubt, especially when you watch it for the first time. Gohan during the Cell saga, character wise, isn't that interesting to me. He fights all the time and then suddenly becomes a pacifist, even when the world is at stake didn't click for me.Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:27 pmLol well I tend to see people constantly ragging on Frieza Saga Gohan for his hair, and for not winning against a big bad, despite the great character moments he had. Fans seem to automatically default to Cell Saga Gohan, despite him having next-to-no agency; I feel like he's so popular because of his cool look, SSJ2, and him getting the win . King Piccolo/Piccolo Jr. and Frieza are my favorite villains, so I suppose that's what prompted that comparison lol. But I do give the edge to Piccolo because his plan was sound and logical. He had less reason than Frieza (who knew of the SSJ legend) to believe that Goku would ever be a problem to him. And I love that he killed Shenlong. I enjoy the Majin Vegeta character arc (and, as you said, the look especially), but it's essentially Vegeta experiencing a mid-life crisis because he can't slaughter innocent people without regretting it later.Jord wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:20 am I don't think they're unpopular at all. I agree with all of those.
Interesting how you draw comparisons between King Piccolo and Freeza. Never thought of those. To me, Freeza got less interested once he lost his politeness and sanity.
As for Majin Vegeta; from a character standpoint he''s not that interesting but he has a cool look and that's what attracts most people to his character.
Piccolo killing Shenron and him and his clan causing the death of Kuririn, Chiaotzu and (essentially) Roshi was already a huge shock since death was new at that point in the series. Add to that King Piccolo killing Shenron (didn't think that was even possible) and it's one of the most dramatic situations in the entire show. I also 'liked' how Piccolo actually ruled the world for a while and how he kept everyone in fear by randomly destroying a city, one at a time.
Sure, enemies got stronger but as the series progressed, deaths became less dramatic due to the larger amount of fighters and the sets of Dragon Balls that could (and would) bail everyone out. It makes death seem way less important. When Kid Buu killed everyone it didn't have a lot of impact since we see the main cast chilling in the after life a few episodes later.
Putting more restrictions on the dragon balls would have made deaths more interesting. The only times they toyed with that was during the Saiyan assault, and every death meant something once Piccolo died.
While GT wasn't perfect, I liked how they used the curse of the Dragon Balls, both with the Black Star as well as the regular Dragon Balls later on.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
YES. 100% on this; this sums up EXACTLY why King Piccolo is my favorite overall Dragon Ball villain. The little glimpse at world domination from him was utterly terrifying. The tone of that arc is dire and hopeless from the get-go, especially following the highs of the end of the 22nd Budokai. As for Piccolo Jr., we didn't get much of outright villainy from him, but the dramatic tension whenever his character enetered the scene, and just seeing his utter tenacity and resourcefulness against Goku during the 23rd, elevates him for me as well. Another issue later on with gathering the Dragon Balls is that it was no longer an adventure or a daunting task, since everyone could fly, or Goku could use Instant Transmission to gather them all up. The consequences of overusing the Dragon Balls in GT is an aspect I love (I like GT in general, which I suppose is another unpopular opinion lol).Jord wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:57 pm Those are some excellent points. Gohan raging when Kuririn seemingly gets killed and overwhelming even Frieza is still one of my favorite moments in the show. You know he won't kill Frieza but there is that little sliver of doubt, especially when you watch it for the first time. Gohan during the Cell saga, character wise, isn't that interesting to me. He fights all the time and then suddenly becomes a pacifist, even when the world is at stake didn't click for me.
Piccolo killing Shenron and him and his clan causing the death of Kuririn, Chiaotzu and (essentially) Roshi was already a huge shock since death was new at that point in the series. Add to that King Piccolo killing Shenron (didn't think that was even possible) and it's one of the most dramatic situations in the entire show. I also 'liked' how Piccolo actually ruled the world for a while and how he kept everyone in fear by randomly destroying a city, one at a time.
Sure, enemies got stronger but as the series progressed, deaths became less dramatic due to the larger amount of fighters and the sets of Dragon Balls that could (and would) bail everyone out. It makes death seem way less important. When Kid Buu killed everyone it didn't have a lot of impact since we see the main cast chilling in the after life a few episodes later.
Putting more restrictions on the dragon balls would have made deaths more interesting. The only times they toyed with that was during the Saiyan assault, and every death meant something once Piccolo died.
While GT wasn't perfect, I liked how they used the curse of the Dragon Balls, both with the Black Star as well as the regular Dragon Balls later on.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.