Xenophobia: How does it impact the DragonBall fanbase?

[Wojak]

The funny thing is that the Streetfighter games, that like all Nintendo games in Sweden are distributed by Bergsala AB, didn't have any name changes as far as I know.
M. Bison and Vega have the same names. I guess that it's the same for all the European versions, since they usually make a collective European release.

I'm pretty sure we had the "rotated" names, in France...

Well, I'm not that surprised. In my visits to France, Spain and Portugal they had some differences. In Spain they even had many of their games in Spanish.
Oh, and do I have to mention that they use no subtitles there (at least not frequently)?
I think we are seeing a trend here!

[Majin Buu]

If it's a live action foreign film, I will prefer to watch it in its original language because having to watch badly dubbed Godzilla movies for years has enlightened me the downside of dubbing live action foreign films. And even if the dubbing is decent, it's just harder for me to ignore that the characters are not really speaking English in a live action movie than it is in an anime. So I prefer to watch live action foreign movies subbed for authenticity.

If its an anime, I can watch it in English if it's a decent dub, but often times I will switch to the Japanese version to hear how a line sounds in Japanese, and sometimes this will snowball into exclusively listening to the Japanese version if I like how things generally sound more. Oftentimes a line or a scream will just sound cooler in Japanese than it does in English.

[JulieYBM]

I don't mean to go off track, but in the dub of Gash Bell they change Tio's name to Tia. I understand the reason for changing Gash (hopefully I don't have to explain it to anyone else), but Tio/Tia seems so unnecessary. Still, fans of the English version get pissy if you call her Tio, which makes me facepalm.

Isn't Gash Bell the series where the English dub changed mamono (magical/demonic beings) to "Mamodo", rather then translate it or anything? Now that I don't understand at all.

Yeah, pretty much. Then again, the show was run by Jeff Nimoy, the very man who did many of the Digimon dubs.

[Olivier Hague]

newsflash, by the way: yes, you can dub live action movies without it looking like shit. It's been done. Again, and again and again.

Prove it.

French dubs of live-action movies tend to be pretty good on the lipsynch front. Check around on Youtube, I don't know (I would if my damn computer didn't crash after five seconds of video).

As for Power Rangers. If dubbing live action did not look so shitty. Someone would of brought that over here before Haim Saban got a chance to.

I got it the first time around. And it's still both utterly wrong and hilarious.

[laserkid]

Basically, this. If I understood Japanese, I would watch it in that if I felt like it. But it's just hard to keep up with things when having to read a subtitle track and watch the show at the same time.

I hate to keep challenging things (who am I kidding... no I don't!), but that's another one I've never bought even for a second.

We read the dialogue in subtitles faster than they speak it, unless you're (1) illiterate, or (2) reading subs in a language that is not your native one. You read it, your brain processes it, and you're back to paying attention to the pretty animation far quicker than they've even delivered the dialogue. Hell, in some respects, that's a one-up over the original Japanese audience who have to WAIT for the dialogue to be SPOKEN!

Specifically with older shows like DBZ, there's hardly any animation to even speak of in the first place (it's animated at 12 fps and doubled to film, right? something like that?), so reading that dialogue is barely making a dent in your "missing" stuff.

I seriously think people just make up excuses as to why they don't want to watch a series in its native language, anime or not, DBZ or not. Is it a defense mechanism?

The problem isn't that it can't be done. Hell, I do it all the time when I watch DBZ. But television is more of a RADIO medium we do more listening then we do watching. Being forced to watch the screen is more effort then what someone would normally do. Hell I'm sitting here watching Torchwood and my eye isnt on the screen 100% of the time. It's just how the medium works.

[Victator Supreme]

newsflash, by the way: yes, you can dub live action movies without it looking like shit. It's been done. Again, and again and again.

Prove it.

French dubs of live-action movies tend to be pretty good on the lipsynch front. Check around on Youtube, I don't know (I would if my damn computer didn't crash after five seconds of video).

As for Power Rangers. If dubbing live action did not look so shitty. Someone would of brought that over here before Haim Saban got a chance to.

I got it the first time around. And it's still both utterly wrong and hilarious.

You are saying if they could not of done a proper dub they would not of brought this to America at the height of the toy boom. Thats ridiculous.

[Metalwario64]

Basically, this. If I understood Japanese, I would watch it in that if I felt like it. But it's just hard to keep up with things when having to read a subtitle track and watch the show at the same time.

I hate to keep challenging things (who am I kidding... no I don't!), but that's another one I've never bought even for a second.

We read the dialogue in subtitles faster than they speak it, unless you're (1) illiterate, or (2) reading subs in a language that is not your native one. You read it, your brain processes it, and you're back to paying attention to the pretty animation far quicker than they've even delivered the dialogue. Hell, in some respects, that's a one-up over the original Japanese audience who have to WAIT for the dialogue to be SPOKEN!

Specifically with older shows like DBZ, there's hardly any animation to even speak of in the first place (it's animated at 12 fps and doubled to film, right? something like that?), so reading that dialogue is barely making a dent in your "missing" stuff.

I seriously think people just make up excuses as to why they don't want to watch a series in its native language, anime or not, DBZ or not. Is it a defense mechanism?

The problem isn't that it can't be done. Hell, I do it all the time when I watch DBZ. But television is more of a RADIO medium we do more listening then we do watching. Being forced to watch the screen is more effort then what someone would normally do. Hell I'm sitting here watching Torchwood and my eye isnt on the screen 100% of the time. It's just how the medium works.

100% this^

Seriously, it is annoying when you have to keep you eyes glued to the screen at all times and not to be able to look away to do something else or to talk to someone.

[laserkid]

Like I said its certainly not impossible, and it can be gotten used to (I got used to doing it with DBZ after all).

But its not the natural way we watch television. Television was originally reffered to as "Radio with pictures". This is how the medium is designed to work. Yes, even with anime.

It's fundementally set up differently then say a movie is, which is far more likely to have exclusively visual cues. Not wanting to watch something subtitled can easily be put into the fact that you don't want to read your radio, you just want to listen to it.

[Olivier Hague]

television is more of a RADIO medium we do more listening then we do watching.

... What?

You are saying if they could not of done a proper dub they would not of brought this to America at the height of the toy boom. Thats ridiculous.

Holy shit, man. English. Use it.

And what I'm saying is... what I've said already.

[Bussani]

I don't mean to go off track, but in the dub of Gash Bell they change Tio's name to Tia. I understand the reason for changing Gash (hopefully I don't have to explain it to anyone else), but Tio/Tia seems so unnecessary. Still, fans of the English version get pissy if you call her Tio, which makes me facepalm.

Isn't Gash Bell the series where the English dub changed mamono (magical/demonic beings) to "Mamodo", rather then translate it or anything? Now that I don't understand at all.

Indeed it is, as YBM already beat me to saying. I guess they didn't want to call them demons or anything else mamono could be considered, but to just change one letter to make a meaningless name is pretty weird.

A lot of people who have only seen part of the show think that a 'Mamodo' is a type of doll, because of Gash's unusual facial features. I think they did explain that they were 'magical creatures from another world' in one early episode, but if you missed that then you're on your own.

[laserkid]

television is more of a RADIO medium we do more listening then we do watching.

... What?

I meant what I said. When television was brand new and programes were being created for it the conventions were to be used as an audio medium. Meaning every time something happens it isn't going to be exclusively visual, it is going to always, always have an audio cue to it. This is how teleplays are designed, and because of this you take more in from an audio of a television show then you do visually. There ARE visuals mind you but they're more scenery.

Conversly movies which have their roots in the theater are a more visual medium and thus will have far less audio cues to action and more visually exclusive cues.

This isn't because one is bigger or smaller, a movie being shown on your television is still going to require more visual attention, and a television show put on a theatre screen is still going to require less. This has to do with the methodology of making a television show Vs. a movie.

If you don't believe me do the film research yourself.

[Adamant]

Oh you are one of those word for word types. Missing the forrest for the trees. It does not matter if its word for word. As long as it gets the exact same meaning across. Certainly closer to creator intent than sub titles.

No, but it's obvious that when your translation has to take up an exact amount of time, you need to make sacrifices and alterations you otherwise wouldn't have.

The problem isn't that it can't be done. Hell, I do it all the time when I watch DBZ. But television is more of a RADIO medium we do more listening then we do watching. Being forced to watch the screen is more effort then what someone would normally do. Hell I'm sitting here watching Torchwood and my eye isnt on the screen 100% of the time. It's just how the medium works.

There are tons of countries out there where no one has any problems with subtitles. If it was considered "too much effort", it wouldn't be the norm.

[Rory]

I have nothing to contribute, other than I really want BlazBlue.

[laserkid]

There are tons of countries out there where no one has any problems with subtitles. If it was considered "too much effort", it wouldn't be the norm.

I never ever ever ever ever ever ever said it was "too much effort" to read subtitles. I have repeatedly stated I myself watch Dragon Ball Z, and other shows, subtitled.

I have merely been pointing out that it IS an effort. Some people are just lazy. Doesn't make them biggoted or xenophobic, just lazy. May I point out that American culture is by far exremely lazy to add to this point?

I'm not saying watching something subtitled is wrong, I am merely stating that saying the opposite, that watching something dubbed ISN'T wrong, and when people say they don't want to put forth the effort to watch something subbed they aren't being disingenuous.

[B]

I don't mean to go off track, but in the dub of Gash Bell they change Tio's name to Tia. I understand the reason for changing Gash (hopefully I don't have to explain it to anyone else), but Tio/Tia seems so unnecessary. Still, fans of the English version get pissy if you call her Tio, which makes me facepalm.

Isn't Gash Bell the series where the English dub changed mamono (magical/demonic beings) to "Mamodo", rather then translate it or anything? Now that I don't understand at all.

Yeah, pretty much. Then again, the show was run by Jeff Nimoy, the very man who did many of the Digimon dubs.

What?! Nimoy messed up another show I love?! ;____________;

------------------FAN-CRYING CUT-OFF POINT--------------------------

Not wanting to watch subtitles because you are lazy is your own problem, by the way. And yet, that also doesn't mean you can't enjoy a dub.

[Olivier Hague]

If you don't believe me

I just think that's a ridiculous argument to make.
"Hey, don't forget that TV was basically radio with image, at first!"
... Yeah, so?
And as you said yourself, cinema had a different origin... which doesn't quite matter anymore either.

If your point is that cinema requires less attention because your options are somewhat more limited when in the theater... well... uh.... yeah?
And if you're generally watching television while doing the laundry, i.e. without actually watching, I can see how subs could become an issue, sure...
But I believe we went there early on in the topic when we talked about the difference between casual viewers and amateurs.

[laserkid]

Like I said previously it has to do with how television shows are made, not the screen itself. The reason its important to remember that television was originally radio with pictures at first is the conventions used at that time formed the medium as it is today, and was in the 1980s and 1990s when Dragon Ball was being made. These are conventions that are still used, and its how most people are used to watching television. Between the conventions that make them like that, and that people are used to it that way, most people have a hard time if they have to read the screen all the time. Certainly not impossible, or an unduly difficult time, but as I also said previously, we americans are a lazy lot and its a whole lot easier to go into the menu and hit "english dubbed" then it is to watch a subtitled form.

Please keep in mind my point ISN'T that subs are terrible - I don't think that at all. I'm merely, for the third time, pointing out that its more laziness then anything else that makes people preffer dubs usually.

This isn't even about me so much, I find dubs and subs equally enjoyable for different reasons each. I just find it silly to say "What?! Dub watchers! Those xenophobic scum!"

As I said originally, sure in some cases it may well be xenophobia, but it isn't the only reason, and I hate seeing an entire group of people labeled.

[Olivier Hague]

The reason its important to remember that television was originally radio with pictures at first is the conventions used at that time formed the medium as it is today, and was in the 1980s and 1990s when Dragon Ball was being made.

Yeah, we barely had color, back then.
Come on, man...

I'm merely, for the third time, pointing out that its more laziness then anything else that makes people preffer dubs usually.

Sure, we agree about that. I just don't think your historical explanation of that laziness makes much sense, sorry...

[MCDaveG]

Here in CZ, the xenophobia towards foreign shows is like this: Everything animated or drawn is for kids (comic books included) and everything drawn and japanese are Pokemon. You are watching Dragon Ball and some guy will came and: ''Hey, you are watcing Pokemon?'' And you'll say: ''No, Dragon Ball, it's about ''blah blah blah''. Can you watch it with me?'' And he replies: ''No, thanks, I'm really not interested!''
And it's working like tis with everything anime related, because there was a big campaign about Pokemon in 90's first commercially adopted show in czech television, so there was fully loaded toy stores with this stuff and game stores, with every game on every Nintendo console that Pokemon was made on. So since these days, everyone only knows Pokemon as anime and aren't interested in it more deeply. So in Czech Republic there is total anime-phobia, except for guys like me, who are related to anime by German and Polish versions of various series long time before Pokemon phenomenon.
And also all people thinks, that every asian people is Chinese, so as ome bonus, if you are watching some anime, guy will ask you: ''Hey, what Chinese cartoon are you watching??''

It's funny and annoying in the same way here....

[laserkid]

The reason its important to remember that television was originally radio with pictures at first is the conventions used at that time formed the medium as it is today, and was in the 1980s and 1990s when Dragon Ball was being made.

Yeah, we barely had color, back then.
Come on, man...

I'm merely, for the third time, pointing out that its more laziness then anything else that makes people preffer dubs usually.

Sure, we agree about that. I just don't think your historical explanation of that laziness makes much sense, sorry...

Yes, when it started was a real long time ago but it formed the roots of both how television is made, and how a person expects to watch television, reinforcing how it is made. It's still the way things are made. Ever notice on say CSI when someone dies even if you see it in massive visual detail they will always, always say "He died!"

Or to use a star trek refference, "He's dead, Jim."

Do we NEED that audio cue if its purely visual? Hell no, its clear as day someone died, but because its using the tried and true methodology of television making they don't just show it but tell you it too.