Xenophobia: How does it impact the DragonBall fanbase?

[MajinVejitaXV]

Earlier today I snagged BlazBlu for the PS3, beautiful game. I was talking to Mike about it earlier and checked GameFAQs because he suggested that the game required a greater amount of attention than simply jumping in with Street Fighter QCF motions and so forth. Upon doing so, I ran into this gem of a topic:

Subject: Why the hell do people use the Japanese voice track for characters?

Body: What, do they feel more Japanese when they do it? Do they say, 'Wow I'm Japanese!' when they play it?

You're speak English, use English. ****. I'm tired of fighting characters with Japanese voice tracks. I make sure to wipe the floor extra hard with them.

Now, while GameFAQs is far from being the haven of intelligent discussion, it did resonate since similar thoughts are portrayed in the DragonBall (and anime as a whole) community. While people, even myself, will say that the Japanese are xenophobic (typically I use it as one reason why sellers seldom ship outside of Japan on numerous sites) it dawned on me just how xenophobic people are here (the United States, though it could easily be English speaking countries in general) as well. Before I had summarily dismissed it as ignorance, but now I find myself leaning more towards it being an actual fear of something foreign.

So, my question is this: If you are a fan of the English version and/or dislike the Japanese version, is it in any part because it's Japanese? And if so, why? I'll give my thoughts when I'm more awake (it's 3am as I type this) and have a chance to read what others say.

And please, let's try and keep this intelligent. I think this could be an interesting discussion, but people could easily derail and kill it.

-Corey

[Herms]

I guess it's because I haven't played the game, but what do they mean by using Japanese voice tracks?

[SSj_Rambo]

I guess it's because I haven't played the game, but what do they mean by using Japanese voice tracks?

People who opt to use the audio track that was used in the game's Japanese release. So basically the person is complaining about fighting a character that says everything in Japanese.

[Darknat]

I have seen that kind of topic a lot in Soul Calibur forums.

I usually consider it just ignorance or fear of/to other languages.

Also it depends on which language we are talking about. I'm not English or American so I can only speak about the Spanish fanbase.

Here, in Spain, people is afraid of foreign languages. They barely learn english at school & high School, and unless they go to college they don't have a chance to learn any other langauges. Lately I have seen some acceptance thanks to the internet and some people watchs some shows in english with subtitles, but when it comes to Japanese most of them say that it is a geek language and they reject it.

My opinion on the matter is that original versions are always better than dubbed versions, so if I don't know a language I try to learn it. I don't care it it is English, Japanese or Korean. If some show/comic/movie is good, it deserves some understanding of it's language, or at least the use of subtitles.

[laserkid]

It certainly can be a reason some people will reject the Japanese track. But it's also not the ONLY reason to do so. I know with most of my anime, I watch dubbed in English. It's not that I can't, or fear, the Japanese subtitlted track. For DBZ that's the only way I'll watch the show, and I have looked at subbed tracks for all of the anime I own.

In my case, its simply easier to watch and listen then to focus in on the screen at all times to read text. It's not hard to read text, but it doesn't let me be lazy and relax while I watch. It is for that reason I generally watch things in English dubbed form (excepting when the dub is unwatchable hence DBZ's case).

With games that give the language option, since it's a more active activity, I'm split down the middle. When it comes to Soul Calibur I'm liable to leave it in English, but Street Fighter IV? I switched it to Japanese pretty quickly. It really just comes down to which sounds better to me in games.

[Taku128]

Subject: Why the hell do people use the Japanese voice track for characters?

Body: What, do they feel more Japanese when they do it? Do they say, 'Wow I'm Japanese!' when they play it?

You're speak English, use English. ****. I'm tired of fighting characters with Japanese voice tracks. I make sure to wipe the floor extra hard with them.

I don't think the person is xenophobic so much as they just hate people who think Japan is the greatest thing ever, and that all English dubs are horrible. He probably thinks something along the lines of "The English voices say the same thing so why would you use the Japanese voices unless you have an obsession with Japan? Goddamn weeaboos." If the poster in question was xenophobic I doubt they'd be playing a Japanese fighting game in the first place.

[SSj_Rambo]

This first crossed my mind when I was at a friends house, and she mentioned having the first season of Pokemon on DVD or something, and then mentioning that it didn't have the Japanese audio track that you'd expect. I was shocked by this, and was surprised that it wasn't something that had been demanded by the hordes of Pokemon fans out there. I know it's not the best example, but it was one that surprised me more than any other.

I think the best way to test this (the whole xenophobia thing), would be to set up two booths at a major con, one with a well-known original Japanese game, and one with the American release and see which attracts the most people.

[rereboy]

In Portugal, there might be Xenophobia, but the general public is very used to foreign languages in the media. Here we generally don`t dub movies or games. We just sub them. It always feels weird for me to go to another country and see their movies (even the ones in the box office) dubbed.

Here Xenophobia exist in other forms.

[Olivier Hague]

You're speak English

Before I had summarily dismissed it as ignorance, but now I find myself leaning more towards it being an actual fear of something foreign.

Then again, you see something as "foreign" when you're not familiar with it, so that brings us back to ignorance anyway...

Not that it's surprising that some would rather understand what's being said and don't give a damn about the original version. It may very well simply be a matter of priorities/interests.
It sure becomes something else when you start lecturing people about what their priorities should be though...

If the poster in question was xenophobic I doubt they'd be playing a Japanese fighting game in the first place.

Well, xenophobic people generally aren't all that rational or coherent...

[Innagadadavida]

Not that it's surprising that some would rather understand what's being said and don't give a damn about the original version. It may very well simply be a matter of priorities/interests.
It sure becomes something else when you start lecturing people about what their priorities should be though...

Well, priorities are subjective, but let me ask this: Why should one care about the original version? If somebody is perfectly content casually playing a game or watching a show, what purpose is there to put forth the effort in learning more about the original? I could argue that watching Dragon Ball with the FUNimation dub isn't any less entertaining than watching it in Japanese with subs. The same goes for games.

I probably wouldn't have ever checked out the Japanese audio track on Dragon Ball Z if I wasn't so enthralled. I rarely watch or play anything with a foreign audio track. To the point in which, if an anime doesn't have a dub, I won't check it out. It's not because I'm afraid of another language, quite the contrary, I'm actually very interested in learning Japanese. I just feel more comfortable with something I can easily understand and process.

So yeah, I'm a dubs guy all the way. Reading the subs is too engaging and I like to let my mind wonder while I watch TV. When the language is familiar, it makes the dialog easier to keep track of in my subconscious; I feel like sound is easier stored in the short-term memory than words. I also find that I can relate to the characters better when they're speaking in tones that I understand.

Most dubs these days are very good, and a lot of work goes into making them. I respect that a lot. The whole process is fascinating to me... To the point in which I'd think about having a career in that field.

As for the original quote that started the topic, I think it's just one guy lashing out. He probably doesn't understand why so many people choose something he wouldn't and feels threatened by it. I can kind of see where he's coming from. I'm better at accepting that people just like different things than this guy, but it really brings my piss to a boil when I see people say: "all dubs suck."

[The Tori-bot]

Well, my mother liked the Death Note movies, and they were in Japanese and subbed.

.. Oh, right, topic?

(if all of the below has alreay been said, I skimmed through the above posts... ^^;)

People just don't see the point in things being in other languages; they speak English, why isn't this in English?

I think it also has something to do with the frustration of not knowing what characters are saying; or, if people are dim enough to complain about it, they don't like reading subtitles. 'Cause that means they'd have to... read.

[Olivier Hague]

Why should one care about the original version? If somebody is perfectly content casually playing a game or watching a show, what purpose is there to put forth the effort in learning more about the original?

Hence what I said above: "it sure becomes something else when you start lecturing people about what their priorities should be". That works both ways.

it really brings my piss to a boil when I see people say: "all dubs suck."

Ah, but that's true. To different degrees, sure, but still. ^___^

[VegettoEX]

I rofl because when we were playing BlazBlu over the weekend, after a single fight I jumped out to the "Options" area to see if there was a Japanese track to switch over to .

In the case of something like that game which is just oozing with over-the-top Japanophilia, it was a huge contrast to suddenly hear English voices coming out of them. It genuinely distracted me. Upon switching it over, I no longer even noticed the voice acting, which seemed to then just fall into the background with the standard mutterings and phrases I'm used to. I may not have then been further drawn into it, but at least it wasn't annoying me any more.

But that's just that one video game.

We covered this a bit in the latest podcast episode with "Jinzoningen", but actually covered it more in-depth way back in episode 70. We called it "relational [dis]placement" at the time. It seemed to all just stem from what someone is already familiar with, how willing they were to experience new things, etc.

For certain sectors of fandom, grand things like "the Japanese music" or "the Japanese voice cast" are simply too much to overcome for them. It may be that they simply watched the show "as a cartoon" pretty casually, and just don't have any interest in taking it any further; it's almost like a mental block. We've said it before, but out of all the anime you can possibly watch, DBZ is certainly "less-Japanese" than some of its counterparts, which probably contributes to why it's done so well throughout the world.

I think that's where Innagadadavida nailed it with:

Why should one care about the original version? If somebody is perfectly content casually playing a game or watching a show, what purpose is there to put forth the effort in learning more about the original?

At the same time, like Olivier Hague justly noted... if they're going to take that route, they can't in their right mind turn around and somehow demand we're not supposed to enjoy our own choices.

For other hardcore-FUNimation fans that got into it relatively-early, it's funny to see how certain words or phrases stemming from the original Japanese version don't bug them. I personally have never seen anyone get annoyed by the name-spelling "Kaioshin". I'm going to assume that they got into it so early before FUNimation had set their own dub-precedent with "Supreme Kai" that seeing "Kaioshin" continue to be used just didn't matter; it was already common-knowledge in their head.

On the other hand, those that got into it and never had any familiarity with names/words/phrases like "Saiya-jin" (even a correctly-pronounced "Saiyan") like those of us already with over-a-decade's-worth of familiarity and usage... they flip their lids. It's like a robotic "DOES NOT COMPUTE" comes up in their head, followed by a violent reaction.

I also think Meri's assessment from the latest podcast rings true with a lot of the younger (also older & less mature) fans, too: they don't want to be made to feel stupid. Really, by using those terms, we are essentially making them feel stupid. They feel like they know stuff, someone is using a different word to explain it, and their pride gets hurt. Cue same violent reaction mentioned before.

[VenomSymbiote]

So, my question is this: If you are a fan of the English version and/or dislike the Japanese version, is it in any part because it's Japanese?

-Corey

Well, it's not that I dislike the Japanese version as a whole (To the contrary, I only really dislike the music, and a couple of voices.).

It's simply because the FUNi voices are the voices I know. I was introduced to DBZ with them, everything I ever learned before Daizex was learned from them. It holds a special place in my heart. Therefore, the Japanese version doesn't stand a chance with me.

Is it because it's Japanese? Not really. For example, I've been developing a love for watching things I love in other languages.

So, when I watch Jurassic Park (My favorite film) in French, sure I may like it (Which I do). But becuase it's not the voices I know, or even the same experience I'm used to, it's inherently alien.

As far as I can tell from from my own feelings, It's more simply because it's different, rather than it being Japanese. This description fits perfectly with me, since while I may not like the Japanese version, I love the Mexican version. And even then, it still doesn't hold a candle to the dub for me.

Well, there it is.

(My 300th post, whoo!)

[VegettoEX]

So, when I watch Jurassic Park (My favorite film) in French, sure I may like it (Which I do). But becuase it's not the voices I know, or even the same experience I'm used to, it's inherently alien.

While the rest of your points are just and make complete sense, this is not an accurate analogy. The French dub of Jurassic Park is a revision of the original, as opposed to the actual, first, legit production of said artistic piece.

Your analogy would only make sense if you saw a dub of DBZ *after* seeing the original Japanese version... which is the exact opposite of what you're arguing.

[VenomSymbiote]

So, when I watch Jurassic Park (My favorite film) in French, sure I may like it (Which I do). But becuase it's not the voices I know, or even the same experience I'm used to, it's inherently alien.

While the rest of your points are just and make complete sense, this is not an accurate analogy. The French dub of Jurassic Park is a revision of the original, as opposed to the actual, first, legit production of said artistic piece.

Your analogy would only make sense if you saw a dub of DBZ *after* seeing the original Japanese version... which is the exact opposite of what you're arguing.

Ah! My bad. And here I thought my argument made complete sense.

It's fine though. Apparently, my opinion still makes sense, even with that poor example, as you've pointed out.

[Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece]

I don't really mind the voices in the Japanese version, it's just that I don't like the Japanese score for DragonBall Z. The original score for DragonBall and GT are alright, but for some reason I just don't like Z's.

Doesn't stop me from watching it though.

[VegettoEX]

I don't really mind the voices in the Japanese version, it's just that I don't like the Japanese score for DragonBall Z. The original score for DragonBall and GT are alright, but for some reason I just don't like Z's.

Doesn't stop me from watching it though.

See, this is another one that I just don't get. It's the exact same composer, exact same style, and early on in Z, some of the exact same songs between DB & DBZ.

You can't say it's the "style" of the show, because 23rd Tenka-ichi Budokai is bloodier than most Z-era stuff. It probably isn't the "tone", because once Piccolo-Daimao shows up, it's death-death-death-destruction-sadness-death-RAWR.

I firmly believe it's because that was the only choice FUNimation presented to fans, and that's why they don't mind it in the original DB. It's the exact same mindset like what they know as "the" DBZ. I guarantee that if there was a changed audio track for DB, the original score would be detested just like in DBZ.

I continue to believe that, like most countries throughout the world, the American population would have been able to deal with, accept, and enjoy the original score for DBZ if they had just been given it from the beginning.

(Note that this post has absolutely nothing to do with the quality or enjoyment of any particular FUNimation dub score.)

[ssjcj]

I haven't come across this type of xenophobia in real life. When I played Budokai Tenkaichi 2 with my friend. I had the voices on the Japanese voice track and he said he didn't like them. I asked him why and he said it felt alien to him and that he was used to playing with the dub voices.

It's like when I try to get my friends to watch the show. I would definately show the dub to friends because they don't watch a lot of TV and watch subtitled shows even less.

Nowadays, though, the internet is a relatively impersonal way of liking a show. People post under pseudonyms and this gives people an anonymous status so they can react to things in a way they'd be reluctant to in real life and so they have exaggerated opinions. When I see YouTube comments, for example, I always think that there is no way you would say this in real life. So I always take these comments with a pinch of salt.

[laserkid]

Yeah I was going to say...isn't the music in DBZ THE SAME as what it was in DB? *facepalm*