So are we biased?

[rereboy]

I meant no offense. I was just pointing out that my previous post had been exactly what he was claiming I hadn't done. By it I didn't mean to insult.

[SSJ Human]

You insult my interpretation but don't even do a good job of disproving it. What does that say about you?

That you don't read my posts?

Neither of these are appropriate posts and account strikes are being issued.

If you are not willing to take the conversation seriously and do so politely with your fellow fans, we do not want your contributions at all.

I feel that several users in here have tried to insult my intelligence by making absurd claims like being black is like being an alien or being physical ill all the time. Why not call them out as well? I think it's ridiculous when users can't even come to the conclusion that someone can view something different from them and still have a valid opinion.

[VegettoEX]

Account strikes have been issued and a response was left in the thread concerning that. We do not and will not respond to individual comments or private messages about them; these are deleted upon receipt and are not up for negotiation.

Take your warning and do with it as you will. We hope that you (a general, plural "you" addressed to all members) will take a step back and begin contributing as you agreed to prior to registration.

This part of the conversation is over.

[SSJ Human]

So...about that black Goku. You could probably have someone lighter do it.

[Draconic]

Something just came up to me. Goku is inspired by Sun Wukong, a monkey. Making him black might have unintentional, but observable, racist connotations.

[SSJ Human]

Something just came up to me. Goku is inspired by Sun Wukong, a monkey. Making him black might have unintentional, but observable, racist connotations.

Maybe so, but we'd probably get past it.

[DoomieDoomie911]

The same argument applies to changing him into a woman. Goku is male. There are plenty of male actors out there and changing his gender would tamper with the story because he is male. Making him black won't do anything but leave you secretly wishing he was another race because of your own prejudice.

Come on... Do you really think that people are prejudice just because they don't want Goku to be portrayed as black? They don't want it because Goku is not black in the series! It has absolutely nothing to do with being prejudice. You're really misunderstanding people...

What is Goku then? Saiyan! Goku is not any defined ethnicity in the series. So why not give a black person a chance to play the character? Because they are black? It's really not hard to read between the lines then.

If you have a problem with an actor solely because of their race portraying a character that does not have a race which is human, that has been drawn with a darker skin tone in the source material, then yes you are prejudice. There is no way of saying that it's against the source material when the source material has it.

I'm not saying that it wouldn't make sense in an in-universe perspective (even though the Daizenshuu states that Saiyans have yellow skin); I'm just saying that some people might not feel comfortable with it. Not because they're prejudice, but because they know Goku as having a light skin tone. It's not fair to call people racist if they simply want a character to be portrayed the way they were in the source materiel.

[SSJ Human]

I'm not saying that it wouldn't make sense in an in-universe perspective (even though the Daizenshuu states that Saiyans have yellow skin); I'm just saying that some people might not feel comfortable with it. Not because they're prejudice, but because they know Goku as having a light skin tone. It's not fair to call people racist if they simply want a character to be portrayed the way they were in the source materiel.

If you want Goku portrayed like he was in the source material, go find a real-life Saiyan. It's an adaptation, they can do whatever they want. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

One this is clear. Just making Goku black wouldn't make or break the film. Leave that to the writers and rest of the staff to take fault.

[DoomieDoomie911]

I'm not saying that it wouldn't make sense in an in-universe perspective (even though the Daizenshuu states that Saiyans have yellow skin); I'm just saying that some people might not feel comfortable with it. Not because they're prejudice, but because they know Goku as having a light skin tone. It's not fair to call people racist if they simply want a character to be portrayed the way they were in the source materiel.

If you want Goku portrayed like he was in the source material, go find a real-life Saiyan. It's an adaptation, they can do whatever they want. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

One this is clear. Just making Goku black wouldn't make or break the film. Leave that to the writers and rest of the staff to take fault.

Of course it wouldn't. I'm not even saying that a black Goku would necessarily be a bad thing. I'm just saying that I understand why some fans would prefer not to have a black Goku, and that calling them racist really isn't fair.

[SSJ Human]

I'm not saying that it wouldn't make sense in an in-universe perspective (even though the Daizenshuu states that Saiyans have yellow skin); I'm just saying that some people might not feel comfortable with it. Not because they're prejudice, but because they know Goku as having a light skin tone. It's not fair to call people racist if they simply want a character to be portrayed the way they were in the source materiel.

If you want Goku portrayed like he was in the source material, go find a real-life Saiyan. It's an adaptation, they can do whatever they want. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

One this is clear. Just making Goku black wouldn't make or break the film. Leave that to the writers and rest of the staff to take fault.

Of course it wouldn't. I'm not even saying that a black Goku would necessarily be a bad thing. I'm just saying that I understand why some fans would prefer not to have a black Goku, and that calling them racist really isn't fair.

I don't prefer any of them. My whole point of mentioning a black Goku was to show that anybody could play it.

I believe if you have a preference of race for a character that does not have a race then you are racist. Take Superman for example. He's always played by white actors and it makes sense because all of his canonical appearances portray him with a light skin tone. I don't care if it's obscured manga images. The fact that the source material has Goku with dark skin on occasion convinced me that anyone had a chance of playing the role.

[TheGmGoken]

This isn't even light skin . He looks tan like Hulk Hogan. That isn't black at all to be honest.

And like GmGoken said, wasn't there a guide that said Goku has yellow skin?

I found it. Daizenshuu 7's race guide depicts Saiyans with yellow skin color(while earthlings are listed as being yellow, brown, white, etc).

[SSJ Human]

This isn't even light skin . He looks tan like Hulk Hogan. That isn't black at all to be honest.

And like GmGoken said, wasn't there a guide that said Goku has yellow skin?

I found it. Daizenshuu 7's race guide depicts Saiyans with yellow skin color(while earthlings are listed as being yellow, brown, white, etc).

Then you could get a black person who is tanned? Again, we don't all look alike.

I also like how you said nothing of the first image, which is because we both know that my interpretation is capable of being seen by others.

[DoomieDoomie911]

Nevermind...

[Kamiccolo9]

I don't prefer any of them. My whole point of mentioning a black Goku was to show that anybody could play it.

I believe if you have a preference of race for a character that does not have a race then you are racist. Take Superman for example. He's always played by white actors and it makes sense because all of his canonical appearances portray him with a light skin tone. I don't care if it's obscured manga images. The fact that the source material has Goku with dark skin on occasion convinced me that anyone had a chance of playing the role.

Wait a second....

Superman is always portrayed as white, so it's not right for him to be played by a black actor. But Goku is always portrayed as light skin, aside from a few images where he is slightly tanned, but that's enough to cast anyone for the part?

Would you be okay with a white guy playing Uub, since in GT, his skin gets marginally lighter?

[Kakacarrottop]

if you have a preference of race for a character that does not have a race then you are racist.

You're the one who has made a thread demanding Goku be played by a black actor.

Would you consider black people who see Piccolo or Popo as black characters racists too?

You're abusing that term as a way to condemn anything which you personally disagree with.

[DoomieDoomie911]

I believe if you have a preference of race for a character that does not have a race then you are racist

Okay. Goku doesn't have a race. That still doesn't mean that he's not portrayed as having a light/tan skin tone in 99.99% of the series (if you can even consider that one image as part of the series).

Take Superman for example. He's always played by white actors and it makes sense because all of his canonical appearances portray him with a light skin tone. I don't care if it's obscured manga images.

And Goku is portrayed with a light skin tone in roughly 90% of the series. In the other 10% (GT) he's portrayed with a skin tone that (in my opinion) couldn't pass as a black person.

You're basing an entire argument on one image. One image vs. 519 chapters.

[SSJ Human]

I don't prefer any of them. My whole point of mentioning a black Goku was to show that anybody could play it.

I believe if you have a preference of race for a character that does not have a race then you are racist. Take Superman for example. He's always played by white actors and it makes sense because all of his canonical appearances portray him with a light skin tone. I don't care if it's obscured manga images. The fact that the source material has Goku with dark skin on occasion convinced me that anyone had a chance of playing the role.

Wait a second....

Superman is always portrayed as white, so it's not right for him to be played by a black actor. But Goku is always portrayed as light skin, aside from a few images where he is slightly tanned, but that's enough to cast anyone for the part?

Would you be okay with a white guy playing Uub, since in GT, his skin gets marginally lighter?

Sure it's enough. I don't remember Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster sitting at a desk designing him with darker skin, which is what Toriyama himself did for GT and throughout the run of the manga. And unlike Superman who has established black counterparts in the comics, Goku does not so how do you not rationalize letting any man of any race get a try?

Nobody cares about Uub. He's not even an important character in any regard to the franchise so why bring him up? Because you think he is black? I guarantee you that if they did make him white and Goku black, then only the fans would care because no one knows who Uub is aside from the fans whereas Goku is much more readily known.

if you have a preference of race for a character that does not have a race then you are racist.

You're the one who has made a thread demanding Goku be played by a black actor.

Would you consider black people who see Piccolo or Popo as black characters racists too?

You're abusing that term as a way to condemn anything which you personally disagree with.

I didn't make any thread demanding anything. All I said was that I didn't understand why he couldn't be played by one. I don't consider them racist because they can have an interpretation of those characters just as you are allowed to. What I've done different from everyone in here is try to explain why I see things the way I do instead of just proclaiming it as fact. If I had gone on here and said that I see Goku as being black and that no other race could play him like others have said about asians, I'd most likely had been reported by the members here and banned from the site for hate speech. But I didn't do that. Instead I tried to give you examples why I felt the way I did.

I'm sure most people here probably see Piccolo and Mr. Popo as black and don't mind black people seeing them the same way because they probably share the same opinions as them, as us, but why is it that I'm given reason after reason for why how I see him, as a character who is liable to be played by any man or any race, is not valid?

I believe if you have a preference of race for a character that does not have a race then you are racist

Okay. Goku doesn't have a race. That still doesn't mean that he's not portrayed as having a light/tan skin tone in 99.99% of the series (if you can even consider that one image as part of the series).

Take Superman for example. He's always played by white actors and it makes sense because all of his canonical appearances portray him with a light skin tone. I don't care if it's obscured manga images.

And Goku is portrayed with a light skin tone in roughly 90% of the series. In the other 10% (GT) he's portrayed with a skin tone that (in my opinion) couldn't pass as a black person.

You're basing an entire argument on one image. One image vs. 519 chapters.

I don't know if you remember this but the manga's in black and white. Just because somebody's skin looks light in that doesn't mean it is and why even bring it up after I've outright said that he is portrayed light for the majority of his appearances? I strongly disagree with you on GT. I always thought he looked black. I've literally got the same skin tone. But that's what I'm talking about, not all black people look alike and I keep having to explain that, which is why I think you'd be doing a disservice by ruling a person out solely because of their ethnicity.

[Sora Saiyan]

Goku did not look black in GT, he looked no more tanned than somebody who's Spanish, Greek or Italian. Not just that, but the art Toriyama provided for GT has Trunks and Goku with pretty much the exact same skin tone. Oh, and I'll agree Goku looks very dark in the first picture you posted OP (It appears heavily saturated as Chi-Chi is not that pink.), but on the second he looks no darker than a tanned white guy. Just following Toriyamas art would show you that Goku just looks a little tanned usually. And like GmGoken said, wasn't there a guide that said Goku has yellow skin?

It doesn't really matter to me if you saw him as being those races, but why would that invalidate my interpretation? Are you saying that what you see is superior to what I see? Am I not allowed to have the right to interpret something different from you?

Why would one guide where it says he has yellow skin even matter to any degree whatsoever? It doesn't because he's been depicted with different skin tones, so I highly doubt anyone besides you and the other person is referring to that, which is why it is irrelevant, because every anime adaptation either has him light like DB and DBZ or dark like Path to Power and GT.

I didn't see him as those races, I'm saying his skin tone looks like theirs rather than somebody who is black. I want an accurate portrayal of Goku, both physically and personality wise (obviously as good as a real life person can do), that includes his features. We've seen how Toriyama draws black people in DB and Goku doesn't have the same features. I wouldn't want Goku played by an Arab, Indian and so forth either. If you could get an African Anerican, Arab or Indian person that has Goku's thin and small nose, relatively light skin, super spiky hair, and lips I wouldn't complain in the slightest, but looking at it by the majority Goku doesn't look like those races.

It could be he gets naturally tanned overtime, as even Toriyama gives him a bit more of a tan as an adult. That'd be my answer to Goku getting a little bit darker over time.

Oh, and just to add something, I'm not one bit racist in the slightest. (Can't believe I feel like I have to add this) If Goku had African American skin tone and features I'd massively dislike if Goku was played by a white guy, unless he had the skin tone and features It'd work the exact same way for me.

[SSJ Human]

Goku did not look black in GT, he looked no more tanned than somebody who's Spanish, Greek or Italian. Not just that, but the art Toriyama provided for GT has Trunks and Goku with pretty much the exact same skin tone. Oh, and I'll agree Goku looks very dark in the first picture you posted OP (It appears heavily saturated as Chi-Chi is not that pink.), but on the second he looks no darker than a tanned white guy. Just following Toriyamas art would show you that Goku just looks a little tanned usually. And like GmGoken said, wasn't there a guide that said Goku has yellow skin?

It doesn't really matter to me if you saw him as being those races, but why would that invalidate my interpretation? Are you saying that what you see is superior to what I see? Am I not allowed to have the right to interpret something different from you?

Why would one guide where it says he has yellow skin even matter to any degree whatsoever? It doesn't because he's been depicted with different skin tones, so I highly doubt anyone besides you and the other person is referring to that, which is why it is irrelevant, because every anime adaptation either has him light like DB and DBZ or dark like Path to Power and GT.

I didn't see him as those races, I'm saying his skin tone looks like theirs rather than somebody who is black. I want an accurate portrayal of Goku, both physically and personality wise (obviously as good as a real life person can do), that includes his features. We've seen how Toriyama draws black people in DB and Goku doesn't have the same features. I wouldn't want Goku played by an Arab, Indian and so forth either. If you could get an African Anerican, Arab or Indian person that has Goku's thin and small nose, relatively light skin, super spiky hair, and lips I wouldn't complain in the slightest, but looking at it by the majority Goku doesn't look like those races.

It could be he gets naturally tanned overtime, as even Toriyama gives him a bit more of a tan as an adult. That'd be my answer to Goku getting a little bit darker over time.

Oh, and just to add something, I'm not one bit racist in the slightest. (Can't believe I feel like I have to add this) If Goku had African American features and skin tone I'd massively dislike if Goku was played by a white guy, unless he had the features. It'd work the exact same way for me.

Now see this makes sense. I'm not calling you one of them because you're giving valid requirements on what you would want and I can think of some people that might be able to do it, even though they're not exactly well-known. That being said, this is something that I can agree with and actually respect since you make an argument that is both accepting and willing to compromise provide your quota is met. Thank you.

[Sora Saiyan]

Okay, thank you. With a response like that I think I understand what you're getting at now.