So are we biased?

SSJ Human · Post by **SSJ Human** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:28 am

A while back I made a thread discussing a live-action Dragon Ball film, primarily one for Z and the possibility of Goku being played by an African-American.

The majority of the reaction was that the character would be better suited not being done by one, which I disagreed with for the simple fact that it has never been done before and thus we have nothing to base it off. Not only that, but Goku and every other character that isn't human, is an alien. It also has to do with interpretation. There are several images of Goku, in particular among the Saiyans, from the manga that are colored and portray him with a darker skin tone, similar to the one seen in GT which I felt was similar to that of an African-American.

In conclusion, I feel the majority of people who would entirely rule out an actor of African descent playing the character for simply being black are doing a disservice to the franchise by not allowing it to become diverse in other media in cases where it could be argued that it would show the variety of interpretations that people can have of something.

dbgtFO · Post by **dbgtFO** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:01 am

There's nothing inherently wrong with having Goku as a Black guy. There are plenty of franchises, that have different interpretations of the characters looks, when it comes to skin color. Though it would seem, that having a white guy as the main character would increase the movie's chances of being succesfull.
Evolution for example had Goku, Bulma and Piccolo portrayed by White people, while the supporting cast of Roshi, Chi Chi and Mai were East Asian.

But you're right did sometimes draw Goku with a darker skin tone than usual. There was also the one, where everybody are waving goodbye and Goku has a much darker skin tone than his sons and practically everyone else, not Uub.

NitroEX · Post by **NitroEX** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:48 am

A lighter skinned mixed raced guy could work but even then I don't think the general audience would accept it. A purely black Goku just wouldn't realistically happen in a big budget production with lots of money on the line. The film companies would always go with the safer option of brown/black haired caucasian or someone with some kind of mixed asian heritage so they can capitalise on the asian markets (Think Johhny Young Bosch or Keeanu Reeves).

I know it sounds harsh but these are the realities of the film business. They know the majority of moviegoers have ingrained biases toward other races so they go with the safer option to make as much money as possible. I don't agree with it but I understand why they do it, it's all about the money.

Business aside though, do you really think a black guy with Super Saiyan hair would look good on film? I've seen enough bad cosplays to know it just wouldn't work visually unless they changed the whole concept to a full body transformation like golden oozaru or something. Going in that direction you then run the risk of people calling it racist simply for portraying a black guy as an ape plus you have a white alien (Freeza) calling him a monkey... yeah, bad idea imo.

P.S: I'm half black so I'm not coming at this from a racist perspective, just an objective/realistic one.

Cure Dragon 255 · Post by **Cure Dragon 255** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:52 am

Nothing against the topic creator but GOD THIS THREAD got potential to turn really nasty.

I wouldnt mind if Goku was black. but he isnt. I would love to see a original new shonen with a black protagonist but Goku is while not white, isnt black either. And its not bias, that's just the way it is.

I really dont like the whole turning white characters black, not because I'm against diversity but rather because I'd rather see new stories with black protagonists. Also because many will complain that character is just Black!Goku instead of an actual character on their own like Tiana from ThePrincessAndTheFrog.

So in short, I'd rather see new stories than just BLACK!GOKU

EDIT:Also, I have to say I hate this "A Black main wont sell" logic. I dont care if its true, its a shitty attitude to have. I understand that changing the race of a characters might be offputting (And I dont mean just white to black, I also mean black to white.) but god,its greedy and prejudiced at the same time.

Sora Saiyan · Post by **Sora Saiyan** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:15 am

Just come in here to say, even when Goku looks really tanned, at best, I'd say he has the complexion of somebody Spanish, Greek, Italian and so on, but not African-American.

Kakacarrottop · Post by **Kakacarrottop** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:38 am

Sora Saiyan wrote:when Goku looks really tanned, at best, I'd say he has the complexion of somebody Spanish, Greek, Italian and so on, but not African-American.

Well, Tullece is basically Goku with a black tan, and to me he sort of resembles a darker skinned Hispanic person.

Also in the first photo the OP posted, Goku could maybe pass as Indian or Arab, but not as a full-blooded Black person imho.

shinmaru · Post by **shinmaru** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:37 am

Goku doesnt have afro hair and looks nothing like a african.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:06 am

In live action, I prefer that the look of the actors is close to the original deceptions. So, just like I wouldn't want Storm from X-men or Black Panther to be white or asian, I also wouldn't want the opposite.

dougo13 · Post by **dougo13** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:36 am

rereboy wrote:In live action, I prefer that the look of the actors is close to the original deceptions. So, just like I wouldn't want Storm from X-men or Black Panther to be white or asian, I also wouldn't want the opposite.

Looks like you won't like Dr. strange then too since The Ancient One has been cast as a woman. That character has been an older Asian man since the beginning. Ditto with Johnny Storm and Franklin Storm in the new Fantastic Four (both black), Jimmy Olson in Supergirl (black), etc. how about the all Japanese cast for Attack on Titan? East Indian man for The Mandarin in Iron Man 3 was a big let down. It goes on and on...

Man-Child · Post by **Man-Child** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:45 am

It seems kind of unnecessary to make a second topic, talking about the exact same thing as the last one. But whatever, I'll give my opinion again.

Personally, I don't have a problem with Goku being black. The character is an alien with his resembling race to humans never specified, and he has been drawn inconsistently, in regards to skin tone.

That said, this is a Japanese manga with heavy Asian influences, so I think it'd be a disservice not to first go with a Japanese/Asian cast. Goku's hair, facial features, and skin tone seem to be closer to Asian than strictly African.

This has nothing to do with a bias, so much as simply wanting the character to look as close to the source material as possible. And again, I'd have no problem with Goku being played by an African actor. If he were to give a great performance, and looked enough like Goku, that'd be fine.

Polyphase Avatron · Post by **Polyphase Avatron** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:33 am

NitroEX wrote:Business aside though, do you really think a black guy with Super Saiyan hair would look good on film? I've seen enough bad cosplays to know it just wouldn't work visually unless they changed the whole concept to a full body transformation like golden oozaru or something.

Jaylen pulled it off:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-20wZmsPIbU

fadeddreams5 · Post by **fadeddreams5** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:43 am

Goku should be neither Caucasian or African American, imo. I can only see an Asian mix person looking the part in a live-action movie. Or maybe someone Thai that looks sort of like this kickboxer:
https://youtu.be/6Glyrl0-cSk

DoomieDoomie911 · Post by **DoomieDoomie911** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:17 am

Why do people feel the need to change the race of a character? Seriously, how would that add anything to the story? I mean, if a character is portrayed and handled well I guess it doesn't really matter, but just doing it to do it?

I just don't see the point in doing things like this just for the sake of doing them. But that's just me.

Marco Polo · Post by **Marco Polo** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:28 am

DoomieDoomie911 wrote:But that's just me.

Actually that's everyone except the topic author...

DoomieDoomie911 · Post by **DoomieDoomie911** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:31 am

Marco Polo wrote:
DoomieDoomie911 wrote:But that's just me.
Actually that's everyone except the topic author...

I didn't mean that I was the only one to hold that opinion. I meant that it was my opinion in the first place...

MCDaveG · Post by **MCDaveG** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:36 am

I don't know, I think that things should stay the way they are. They already changed my favorite Wally West in DC to be black.
Well, why not! But why still change characters only for the sake of ''racial diversity'' which is of course backed-up by money in the first place.
And it happens everywhere. Why not create new characters suited for their roles having the race already in mind?
No! We have to market this thing, that was 75 years the same. So for example, we have the Fantastic Four, so we will make this guy African, this guy Asian, this woman Arabian and let's leave the stop for Caucasian.
And we will have people from all these backgrounds flooding the cinemas. Yeah, sure.

Btw, I want Goku being Asian .)

RedRibbonSoldier#42 · Post by **RedRibbonSoldier#42** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:02 pm

I don't see how having a black actor play Goku would be changing his race from the source material any more than an Asian actor would be. Goku's race in the source material is Saiyan, it's never said he's supposed to be Asian and I don't think it can be assumed just because Dragonball is Japanese in origin.

fadeddreams5 · Post by **fadeddreams5** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:12 pm

It's not that I see or don't see Goku as Asian, but I think the right Asian can pull off the look better than any other.

RedRibbonSoldier#42 · Post by **RedRibbonSoldier#42** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:20 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:It's not that I see or don't see Goku as Asian, but I think the right Asian can pull off the look better than any other.

but....why? doesn't that imply that you DO see Goku as Asian? I'm not saying that's wrong; Goku is a nearly featureless anime character that can look like anyone. But why couldn't a white or black or anything also pull off "the look"? I don't think having a preference is automatically racist, But we should wait to see how good of an actor they are before dismissing them.

Marco Polo · Post by **Marco Polo** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:49 pm

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:
fadeddreams5 wrote:It's not that I see or don't see Goku as Asian, but I think the right Asian can pull off the look better than any other.
but....why? doesn't that imply that you DO see Goku as Asian? I'm not saying that's wrong; Goku is a nearly featureless anime character that can look like anyone. But why couldn't a white or black or anything also pull off "the look"? I don't think having a preference is automatically racist, But we should wait to see how good of an actor they are before dismissing them.

Here are two Black characters in the series:

Tell me Goku looks closer to these characters than to an Asian.

Also, no Earthling in the series every claims that Goku doesn't look human (aside from the tail), so the "b-b-but he's an alien!" argument really doesn't hold water.

Kanzenshuu

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