Something About Goku Black *Huge Spoiler*

[SSJ Human]

He's not manly, that's for sure, so I don't really mind it on him. I like it on Doflamingo and Buu. I'm just neutral towards Trunks having pink/lilac hair. Tbh I think it looks weird with his dark skin color but it's not a big deal.

That was because of Frieza, who was the white villain Toriyama had in mind. That is over and done with now.

He was specifically talking about white hair and that interview came out about a year ago so we know he was talking about a villain in Super, ergo Zamasu.

Yes the interview came out a year ago but the question was "how did you come up with Super Saiyan Blue?" referring to RoF.

Toriyama himself said he only started planning the Black arc, meaning Zamasu was created, in fall 2015. Well after Super Saiyan Blue.

You really believe he came up with all of this arc, the length of which we're still unsure of, over the fall of last year? He didn't have any ideas about anything before that fall? No. He knew he was going to have a villain with white hair and chose not to make the new form Black's getting without white because it was being used on Zamasu. There's no other way around it. He said that and whether or not you want it to fit into the timeline that you've constructed, it still means that the form was made around that time.

[Chiki]

Yes I do, in case you weren't aware Toriyama is notorious for being poor at planning things ahead of time. When he wrote the manga, he wouldn't even have the next chapter in mind as he was working on a chapter. He'd come up with the story without having any plans ahead.

Occasionally, due to forgetting something from the earlier part of the manga, Toriyama writes himself into a hole and has to get out of it. The fact that Toriyama plotted pretty much on the fly is one of its charms; there's so many retcons it becomes a game to spot them. What's that, the Dragon Balls can only bring someone back to life once? Not the Namekian Dragon Balls! What's that, Goku said he's 12 years old? No, that was because he didn't know how to count, he's actually 14! What's that, there's only one Super Saiyan? Not true! What's that, there's no way to remove the Fusion Earrings, so whoever puts them on will be permanently fused into one being? Also not true, for no apparent reason!

[TheDevilsCorpse]

You really believe he came up with all of this arc, the length of which we're still unsure of, over the fall of last year? He didn't have any ideas about anything before that fall? No. He knew he was going to have a villain with white hair and chose not to make the new form Black's getting without white because it was being used on Zamasu. There's no other way around it. He said that and whether or not you want it to fit into the timeline that you've constructed, it still means that the form was made around that time.

The interview statement in question, while not explicitly stated, is almost 100% certainty about Freeza. We have direct statements on how long it took him to write the Future Trunks Arc. We also know that he was unhappy with Super's quality and was hesitant to continue working on the series, with Kei's insider knowledge suggesting he had to be given ideas for what to do to keep him on board.

[PMD]

Wait, who cares if pink is a girly colour?! That's not the point of all this. Are we really having this argument, guys? We're better than this, please. I can believe it. Jeez...

Regarding Black's possible transformation, I still think is not pink, but red and that card's quality is not good enough as a proof. I think when their punches collide in ep. 50, Goku transferred some of his powers to Black, the same way Vegeta evened powers with Goku in front of Whiss during his training in Bills' planet and they exchanged colliding punches, remember? idk, it's just a little theory that may not be true.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Wait, who cares if pink is a girly colour?! That's not the point of all this. Are we really having this argument, guys? We're better than this, please. I can believe it. Jeez...

I wonder if that makes Majin Buu girly...

[HeroR]

You really believe he came up with all of this arc, the length of which we're still unsure of, over the fall of last year? He didn't have any ideas about anything before that fall? No. He knew he was going to have a villain with white hair and chose not to make the new form Black's getting without white because it was being used on Zamasu. There's no other way around it. He said that and whether or not you want it to fit into the timeline that you've constructed, it still means that the form was made around that time.

The interview statement in question, while not explicitly stated, is almost 100% certainty about Freeza. We have direct statements on how long it took him to write the Future Trunks Arc. We also know that he was unhappy with Super's quality and was hesitant to continue working on the series, with Kei's insider knowledge suggesting he had to be given ideas for what to do to keep him on board.

I would take Kei's statement about Toriyama hesitant to continue Super with some grains of salt and not push it as an actual fact for several reasons. The biggest being that this complaint had to made near the beginning of Super when it was still in the Battle of Gods Saga.

[marcbret87]

Yes I do, in case you weren't aware Toriyama is notorious for being poor at planning things ahead of time. When he wrote the manga, he wouldn't even have the next chapter in mind as he was working on a chapter. He'd come up with the story without having any plans ahead.

Occasionally, due to forgetting something from the earlier part of the manga, Toriyama writes himself into a hole and has to get out of it. The fact that Toriyama plotted pretty much on the fly is one of its charms; there's so many retcons it becomes a game to spot them. What's that, the Dragon Balls can only bring someone back to life once? Not the Namekian Dragon Balls! What's that, Goku said he's 12 years old? No, that was because he didn't know how to count, he's actually 14! What's that, there's only one Super Saiyan? Not true! What's that, there's no way to remove the Fusion Earrings, so whoever puts them on will be permanently fused into one being? Also not true, for no apparent reason!

Lol, that is an awesome post, and I can definitely believe it. Surely fans have been discussing plot points for years that Toriyama never even thought about and decided on the go. Though, to be fair, some of these situations have fairly decent explanations. I could believe that Goku, having lived alone in the mountains only with his grandpa, wouldn't be very good with numbers. And having an end to the Buu saga with Goku and Vegeta fused would make for a weird ending to DBZ, specially with one of them being alive and the other one dead at the time.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I would take Kei's statement about Toriyama hesitant to continue Super with some grains of salt and not push it as an actual fact for several reasons. The biggest being that this complaint had to made near the beginning of Super when it was still in the Battle of Gods Saga.

Even if you assume that the complaint was only made towards the Battle of Gods Arc (even though the Resurrection "F" material didn't get much better, and neither did the start of the Champa Arc), Toriyama was brought on to start production of the Future Trunks Arc in Autumn 2015. That's around the same point as when the the Battle of Gods Arc was finishing (October). It works out pretty well.

[HeroR]

I would take Kei's statement about Toriyama hesitant to continue Super with some grains of salt and not push it as an actual fact for several reasons. The biggest being that this complaint had to made near the beginning of Super when it was still in the Battle of Gods Saga.

Even if you assume that the complaint was only made towards the Battle of Gods Arc (even though the Resurrection "F" material didn't get much better, and neither did the start of the Champa Arc), Toriyama was brought on to start production of the Future Trunks Arc in Autumn 2015. That's around the same point as when the the Battle of Gods Arc was finishing (October). It works out pretty well.

If he was threatening to leave Super's production, wouldn't have done it later instead in a middle of a retelling, especially when they didn't even get to his new material? The Super manga was just jumping ahead when they began writing the Future Trunks Saga. Also, the Champa Saga showed marks improvements over the retellings from the first episode.

[Sodhi]

If the Amazon listing was not official enough. This is pretty official to confirm that those listings were legit.

[Lord Beerus]

If the Amazon listing was not official enough. This is pretty official to confirm that those listings were legit.

Great work finding this. I'll update my original post with this image.

[kidhero1000]

First Black, Then Yellow, Cyan, and now Magenta. Guess Printer inks was the inspiration for Saiyan Haircolor.

[dbzfan7]

Every time I see that it looks like Black wants to kill his beloved Senpai. Senpai hurt him and no one can have Senpai .

[kinisking]

I would take Kei's statement about Toriyama hesitant to continue Super with some grains of salt and not push it as an actual fact for several reasons. The biggest being that this complaint had to made near the beginning of Super when it was still in the Battle of Gods Saga.

Even if you assume that the complaint was only made towards the Battle of Gods Arc (even though the Resurrection "F" material didn't get much better, and neither did the start of the Champa Arc), Toriyama was brought on to start production of the Future Trunks Arc in Autumn 2015. That's around the same point as when the the Battle of Gods Arc was finishing (October). It works out pretty well.

That's hard to believe. The bog arc wasn't bad at all, especially it's ending. Nothing besides for episode 5 should have made him feel that way. If this was during ROF it would have made more sense

[SpiritBombTriumphant]

We also know that he was unhappy with Super's quality and was hesitant to continue working on the series, with Kei's insider knowledge suggesting he had to be given ideas for what to do to keep him on board.

Idiot here (me). Do you mean that the staff helped Toriyama think of the Goku Black arc, or that the staff at Toei had to think of a way to not have him leave?

[HybridSaiyan]

Broly is coming back! lol

[TheDevilsCorpse]

That's hard to believe. The bog arc wasn't bad at all, especially it's ending. Nothing besides for episode 5 should have made him feel that way. If this was during ROF it would have made more sense

The Resurrection "F" is arguably the worse of the two, but both of the retellings are honestly pretty terrible for a variety of reasons. Some episodes have terrible animation, off model drawings, bad storyboards, still images in situations that desperately need motion, etc. It's rare for the episodes to hit all the checkboxes, but most of them are hitting at least one.

Idiot here (me). Do you mean that the staff helped Toriyama think of the Goku Black arc, or that the staff at Toei had to think of a way to not have him leave?

Assuming the information is accurate, the implication is that the people at Toei provided him with some sort of general idea/concept for the arc. Maybe they suggested an evil Goku story? Maybe it was bringing Future Trunks back? Both, perhaps? We have no idea what their specific involvement is/was on the matter.

[DragonHermit]

The way Toriyama was talking about this arc it seemed as if though he wrote it. He was warning us about the confusion of time travelling, and couldn't wait to see what Toei would do with it.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Even if he didn't come up with the concept on his own, he did write the bulk of the story outline. Potentially not all that dissimilar to the way he almost entirely re-wrote Battle of Gods, despite the concepts of Hakaishin Beerus and Super Saiyan God being provided in the original draft.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I find it weird seeing people complain about pink hair and how it clashes with black, but they never seemed to have a problem or even praise Super Saiyan 4 Goku's design. Pink is a very good complementary color to black and fits Black's design (compliments the red band around his waist). The image we got was pretty low quality so it's early to pass judgement. Let's neither hate nor praise it yet, until we see more of it.

SS4 is red, not Pink. Or at least portrayed to be red in most other media.