Does anyone else think Super is awful?

[Miracles]

If you are going to start comparing Super to other anime/manga it laughably falls apart. I know it's all opinion and shit, but come on! It is not that difficult to see that Super is not a well made show and the only reason it is still going on is cause it's part of a popular franchise of the "golden 80s-90s era" and it is making enough money for the production committee.

Super is without question a successful show. A profitable success for all parties involved, but I think quality is what's being considered here and out of all the anime I've watched in 2016 Super is the weakest.

Besides Case Closed being entertainment, what else is better than Super? One Piece is bad, It's story is full of badly written fights, unnecessary characters, and running around, with overly forced emotion due to the faces and emphasis on moans and groans. A good writer doesn't need to force it, it will just happen. Naruto part two was bad as a whole, besides some parts; Pain arc [easily Kishi's best in p2], Sasuke vs Raikage, Obito vs Kakashi fight, Madara vs Allaince was good. But the rest was bad. Mob Psycho, my sister watches it, A kid who reaches number 100 on his rage meter, means youre dead. She showed me some fight scenes, didn't like it, fooly cooly like and the main caster reminds me of saitama from one punch man. I didn't really care for one punch man either, a comedic show with lack of passion. Good animation though, The last episode; season finale, against Boros was good but even that fight doesn't out due some of Super's fights. If you got some other shows I should see please enlighten me but I pretty much seen all the golden age stuff.

[Boo Machine]

Besides Case Closed being entertainment, what else is better than Super? One Piece is bad, It's story is full of badly written fights, unnecessary characters, and running around, with overly forced emotion due to the faces and emphasis on moans and groans. A good writer doesn't need to force it, it will just happen. Naruto part two was bad as a whole, besides some parts; Pain arc [easily Kishi's best in p2], Sasuke vs Raikage, Obito vs Kakashi fight, Madara vs Allaince was good. But the rest was bad. Mob Psycho, my sister watches it, A kid who reaches number 100 on his rage meter, means youre dead. She showed me some fight scenes, didn't like it, fooly cooly like and the main caster reminds me of saitama from one punch man. I didn't really care for one punch man either, a comedic show with lack of passion. Good animation though, The last episode; season finale, against Boros was OK but even that fight doesn't out due some of Super's fights. If you got some other shows I should see please enlighten me but I pretty much seen all the golden age stuff.

What is it you usually look for in a show? Because if nothing you listed interests you, then I'm curious what you would put above Super.

[Miracles]

What is it you usually look for in a show? Because if nothing you listed interests you, then I'm curious what you would put above Super.

That's the thing, anime/manga is bad as a whole. I really can not find anything that gives me more entertainment than Super [other than Case Closed]. Even it's so called "filler" episodes are more amusing than most of these shows running. Goku hiring Hit to kill himself is probably the biggest troll move one character can do, yet it fits the mold of Son's character and is a fun plot for the lol's. Not to mention Hit's techniques are pretty cool. What I usually look for in a show is balance with style, quality action scenes with voice acting and background music for setting the dramatic feats and mix in some comedy. Most other animes/manga usually lack the balance, they are to focused on one aspect and give little attention to the others.

[Boo Machine]

What is it you usually look for in a show? Because if nothing you listed interests you, then I'm curious what you would put above Super.

That's the thing, anime/manga is bad as a whole. I really can not find anything that gives me more entertainment than Super [other than Case Closed]. Even it's so called "filler" episodes are more amusing than most of these shows running. Goku hiring Hit to kill himself is probably the biggest troll move one character can do, yet it fits the mold of Son's character and is a fun plot for the lol's. Not to mention Hit's techniques are pretty cool. What I usually look for in a show is balance with style, quality action scenes with voice acting and background music for setting the dramatic feats and mix in some comedy. Most other animes/manga usually lack the balance, they are to focused on one aspect and give little attention to the others.

Ah, well then if you're not super into anime then I guess there isn't a whole lot I can recommend you I suppose. Which is cool. I've got family and friends not into anime but still love Dragonball. So I see that all the time.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

Besides Case Closed being entertainment, what else is better than Super? One Piece is bad, It's story is full of badly written fights, unnecessary characters, and running around, with overly forced emotion due to the faces and emphasis on moans and groans. A good writer doesn't need to force it, it will just happen. Naruto part two was bad as a whole, besides some parts; Pain arc [easily Kishi's best in p2], Sasuke vs Raikage, Obito vs Kakashi fight, Madara vs Allaince was good. But the rest was bad. Mob Psycho, my sister watches it, A kid who reaches number 100 on his pissed off meter, corny and she showed me some fight scenes, didn't like it, fooly cooly like and the main caster reminds me of saitama from one punch man. I didn't really care for one punch man either, a comedic show with lack of passion. Good animation though, The last episode; season finale, against Boros was OK but even that fight doesn't out due some of Super's fights. If you got some other shows I should see please enlighten me but I pretty much seen all the golden age stuff.

Naruto was already over before Super even started. As for the anime, I always spoke in terms of which is the better made show and Naruto Shippuuden is far better than Super in that regard. I don't know much about One Piece cause I'm still 700+ chapters behind, but from what I've read it is good and the anime is once again a much better product than Super. An anime is not only about writing. The entire product matters and Super lacks everything that a good and well-produced anime has.

I'm not going to talk about One Punch Man and Mob Psycho 100 cause you are relying on other's opinions and not your own and please none of Super's fights hold a candle to them. Visual storytelling is both of the aforementioned shows strengths and they excel at it. So, saying that it has good animation, but it is a bad story is not understanding what the show is trying to do.

Battle shounen is not the only type of manga/anime y'know. There's seinen and shoujo and lots of great stuff out there. This season Hibike! Euphonium 2, for example is a great anime. It is a SoL, musical series which once again gives major emphasis to visual storytelling. It is a light novel adaptation.

There's Boku no Hero Academia which is going pretty strong in the content department, if you are following the manga. The anime which aired in 2015 was also good for the most part. Re:Zero is another fantastic anime this year. I would also recommend Kiznaiver which I am following currently. It has been mind-blowing in the directorial department so far. There's a lot more I'm forgetting, but this should be enough for now.

EDIT: Never mind. You are not much into anime so you are not going to like anything I recommended.

[precita]

Most other anime has too much fanservice these days and is borderline porn. Most of the best anime was made in the 80's and 90's, and some in the early 2000's.

Anime nowadays is nothing but trash, with a few exceptions here and there.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

"Most shounen anime are trash cause it's just action, action, action, violence, blood, gore. Sometimes so much that it scared my little sister to death." I don't see anyone saying blood and gory stuff makes anime automatically trash especially not in the West, so why does fanservice makes an anime automatically trash?

I mean, there are shows like Rail Wars that rely heavily on fanservice and fail to execute it, but there's shows like Keijo!!!! that execute it brilliantly. It all depends on the execution. Fanservice is a bullshit criteria to dislike an anime.

As for 80s-90s compared to today's stuff, both have good stuff and bad stuff. 80s-90s isn't inherently better. It's all a matter of personal taste, but the anime industry right now is stronger than ever and that cannot be denied. Yeah, sure it is suffering from producing too much content than it can cause of high demand, but it has brought forward new creators who have a vision and have produced excellent stuff and some old established ones who have refined their vision. Hosoda Mamoru films like Summer Wars and Wolf Children, Shinkai Makoto films like The Garden of Words and Your Name which is breaking records after records are all excellent works.

Going back to TV, Casshern Sins which is a masterpiece of Yama'uchi Shigeyasu(who directed a lot for Dragon Ball Z), Kaiba, a Yuasa Masa'aki work and needless to stay anything Yuasa does is gold. Fullmetal Alchemist is an anime that needs no explanation of how awesome it was. Space Dandy was another gem.
The 2010s era also saw rise of sports anime and we got works like Haikyuu!! and Ping Pong and they were quite good for what they were and who they were trying to appeal. Gurenn Lagann is another great one. SHIROBAKO for the impact it had and how many people it made aware of the anime process and how it's made. There was nothing like SHIROBAKO in the 90s. I can go on forever.

There sure is a lot of bad stuff even though the intentions are always good, but there will also be good stuff as long as there are people who want to create good anime. And there's a lot of people, both old and young who are and will continue to make good and creative works.

[ChronoTwigger]

I dunno. I really dunno.
If I stop for a second thinking, I can't find anything good.
Really, I can't find any single moment of the show I can point out and shout to friends "look here! T'was fantastico!"
None.

But for some reason, I can't stop FOLLOWING it. I'm curious, I appreciate the flow of events, something hint for more each time.
I also find it relaxing. I watched only yesterday Robotic;notes. Nice. But it was somehow too tense. Too emotions, too shounen efforts, shouts, drama and tears.
Super is like bad genre fiction. Doesn't want for your brain to twist. It want just to entertain.
That's probably the reason I wasn't all about the tension of Z. I'm searching for brainless, less tense stories to relax from mine.

Sooo... bad show, with a good mood for me.

[Hellspawn28]

Going back to TV, Casshern Sins which is a masterpiece of Yama'uchi Shigeyasu(who directed a lot for Dragon Ball Z), Kaiba,

I will disagree with you on Casshern Sins being a masterpiece. It was a okay show, but I do like the original 70's TV series and 90's OVA reboot better. I found Casshern Sins to be dull to sit through after six episodes in.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

Going back to TV, Casshern Sins which is a masterpiece of Yama'uchi Shigeyasu(who directed a lot for Dragon Ball Z), Kaiba,

I will disagree with you on Casshern Sins being a masterpiece. It was a okay show, but I do like the original 70's TV series and 90's OVA reboot better. I found Casshern Sins to be dull to sit through after six episodes in.

I couldn't disagree more. Casshern Sins, by far is Yama'uchi's best project. His combo with Umakoshi(Character designer, Chief animation director and key animator) and his crew was so strong that I couldn't get my eyes off.

I always speak in terms of the overall project and not just one aspect of it like many do and that aspect is writing which is not the only thing that matters. It is an overall great product. The script was compelling and needed visual and poetic direction and Yama'uchi delivered.

[ChronoTwigger]

Going back to TV, Casshern Sins which is a masterpiece of Yama'uchi Shigeyasu(who directed a lot for Dragon Ball Z), Kaiba,

I will disagree with you on Casshern Sins being a masterpiece. It was a okay show, but I do like the original 70's TV series and 90's OVA reboot better. I found Casshern Sins to be dull to sit through after six episodes in.

I couldn't disagree more. Casshern Sins, by far is Yama'uchi's best project. His combo with Umakoshi(Character designer, Chief animation director and key animator) and his crew was so strong that I couldn't get my eyes off.

I always speak in terms of the overall project and not just one aspect of it like many do and that aspect is writing which is not the only thing that matters. It is an overall great product. The script was compelling and needed visual and poetic direction and Yama'uchi delivered.

While I appreciated more the old show too (that nazi thing always strike me, and Sins is too abstract to hit my feelings), is undebatable they've tried to make a classy, deep product.
But tastes are tastes.
For example, I don't find Gurren Lagann so outstanding, there was Gundam00 that polarized my attention. While less creative than GL, it was exactly was I was searching for. But nothing can beat to me the original Getter Robo, that was awful, technically worst and clichè driven. Maybe someone like more the same bad coffee than a complex exquisite tea.

[Shuby]

DBZ invented the "cliches" so it isn't really at fault. As for these other shows, like HxH specifically, what has it done differently?
Can One Punch Man survive without Madhouse? What would the draw be to these shows if they didn't have seasonal budgets?
I'm not saying they're bad, I just don't find them as amazing and well written as everyone seems to think they are. It's just
eye candy, and people make their justifications for it after the fact.

Dragon Ball didn't invent those cliches. Hokuto no Ken came before it and contributed immensely. Saint Seiya ran alongside DB and it deserves credit too. The old Gundam series even had that rivalry trope which no Dragon Ball fan would shut up about how it was Vegeta that made that trope exist which is wrong. It's just that no Western fan had any idea about Japanese cartoons at all. Dragon Ball was incredibly lucky and became the first hit cartoon overseas, so it can be said that it made those cliches popular and known to people, but it didn't invent it.

Well, Madhouse didn't do jack shit other than having it's name plastered on the show as the studio. All the good stuff everyone saw in OPM was the work of the best freelancers and young but extremely talented webgen animators brought together by webgen turned director with connections all over the industry Natsume Shingo who himself is freelance. It's only my opinion, but Genos is a far more interesting character than any Dragon Ball character ever was.

Another misconception is about OPM's budget which was nothing but average. It was the work of those passionate freelance animators wanting to express the simple story in the most interesting and entertaining way possible that made OPM a super success. Madhouse and the budget had little to do with its success.

The problem with Dragon ball Super is, is that it falls hard when it actually matters. I mean fillers and character moments are arguable the strongest point of Super but when a story is being told in Super and it comes to the point where they are going to explain something or reveal something or something similar it just starts to fall apart.

An example would be Goku vs Hit. Well first of all, Hit isn't using his time-skip ability nearly as much as he was using against Vegeta after Goku transformed into SSB form. Secondly, even when Goku knew about the technique and fought with Hit prepared. Goku wasn't prepared at all that Hit could improve in a short amount of time. Hit improves from 0.1 seconds to 0.2 seconds right after that Goku receives a heavly blow. Right from the moment Goku stood up Hit improved his time-skip ability again to 0.5 seconds. Goku then gets hit 30-40 punches from Hit and he still stands up.... One could argue Hit was not hitting him in his vitals, well why not? I can't think of any other reason then giving Goku the big spotlight again. Not to mention how goku moves through stopped time in his kaioken-ssb form, which made no sense at all. Another thing would be the questionable time-travel-plot in the previous arc, which if you really think about it does not add up at all.

[SSJ Human]

DBZ invented the "cliches" so it isn't really at fault. As for these other shows, like HxH specifically, what has it done differently?
Can One Punch Man survive without Madhouse? What would the draw be to these shows if they didn't have seasonal budgets?
I'm not saying they're bad, I just don't find them as amazing and well written as everyone seems to think they are. It's just
eye candy, and people make their justifications for it after the fact.

Dragon Ball didn't invent those cliches. Hokuto no Ken came before it and contributed immensely. Saint Seiya ran alongside DB and it deserves credit too. The old Gundam series even had that rivalry trope which no Dragon Ball fan would shut up about how it was Vegeta that made that trope exist which is wrong. It's just that no Western fan had any idea about Japanese cartoons at all. Dragon Ball was incredibly lucky and became the first hit cartoon overseas, so it can be said that it made those cliches popular and known to people, but it didn't invent it.

Well, Madhouse didn't do jack shit other than having it's name plastered on the show as the studio. All the good stuff everyone saw in OPM was the work of the best freelancers and young but extremely talented webgen animators brought together by webgen turned director with connections all over the industry Natsume Shingo who himself is freelance. It's only my opinion, but Genos is a far more interesting character than any Dragon Ball character ever was.

Another misconception is about OPM's budget which was nothing but average. It was the work of those passionate freelance animators wanting to express the simple story in the most interesting and entertaining way possible that made OPM a super success. Madhouse and the budget had little to do with its success.

The problem with Dragon ball Super is, is that it falls hard when it actually matters. I mean fillers and character moments are arguable the strongest point of Super but when a story is being told in Super and it comes to the point where they are going to explain something or reveal something or something similar it just starts to fall apart.

An example would be Goku vs Hit. Well first of all, Hit isn't using his time-skip ability nearly as much as he was using against Vegeta after Goku transformed into SSB form. Secondly, even when Goku knew about the technique and fought with Hit prepared. Goku wasn't prepared at all that Hit could improve in a short amount of time. Hit improves from 0.1 seconds to 0.2 seconds right after that Goku receives a heavly blow. Right from the moment Goku stood up Hit improved his time-skip ability again to 0.5 seconds. Goku then gets hit 30-40 punches from Hit and he still stands up.... One could argue Hit was not hitting him in his vitals, well why not? I can't think of any other reason then giving Goku the big spotlight again. Not to mention how goku moves through stopped time in his kaioken-ssb form, which made no sense at all. Another thing would be the questionable time-travel-plot in the previous arc, which if you really think about it does not add up at all.

I took issue with the Hit "arc" if you could call it that since it was ridiculously rushed. I remember when the preview came out and we had no idea about the Universe Survival Arc, people were thinking that would be some major arc where Hit would be the main villain. Then the Universe Survival Arc got confirmed and then the episodes came out...I wasn't impressed.

The only thing I give this series a pass on is animation, and that's because one, I know how hard it is, and second, they didn't have that much time for pre-production, if Lord Beerus is to be believed. I also would still have grievances with what I do if the animation was just stunning.

[NintendoBlaze53]

It's Dragon Ball. It's Shonen. What are we comparing it to in order to say it's awful? Super is simply carrying on the Dragon Ball media train. Super is no more awful then GT, some of the movies, some of DB and Z, or most other shonen anime. What are we expecting out of Dragon Ball here? Dragon Ball and Z were never perfect, much of them was sub-par and if looked at the whole show their meh when compared to something like JoJo or Hunter X Hunter.

Super to me I feel is nothing new in terms of the bad, bullshit out of nowhere power ups (Seriously this complaint is getting old, did NO ONE watch Dragon Ball or Z?!), retcons and apparently characters not resembling their old selves. This is all stuff done before in Dragon Ball. At least Super's good stuff is much of the new stuff. The new characters are intriguing, some of the character development given to Vegeta is great, and as much as we complain, who didn't get excited to see Trunks again!

I think that both the show and DB fans can't decide what they want Super to be. Some want a comedy, some want mindless action, some want long endless battles, some want character development, some want pure fan service. I imagine if Kanzenshuu existed when Z aired these same discussions would happen. "Does anyone else thing Z is awful compared to Dragon Ball?". I guess we'll have to wait till it's over to truly compare Super to the rest of Dragon Ball, cause right now we're judging and comparing an incomplete product against 3 fully complete and finished shows.

[Hellspawn28]

"Most shounen anime are trash cause it's just action, action, action, violence, blood, gore. Sometimes so much that it scared my little sister to death." I don't see anyone saying blood and gory stuff makes anime automatically trash especially not in the West, so why does fanservice makes an anime automatically trash?

I mean, there are shows like Rail Wars that rely heavily on fanservice and fail to execute it, but there's shows like Keijo!!!! that execute it brilliantly. It all depends on the execution. Fanservice is a bullshit criteria to dislike an anime.

As for 80s-90s compared to today's stuff, both have good stuff and bad stuff. 80s-90s isn't inherently better. It's all a matter of personal taste, but the anime industry right now is stronger than ever and that cannot be denied.

I can see why many people feel like the anime industry was better in the past compare to now. It seems like anime industry likes to focuses a lot on fan service ecchi anime, moe and typical middle school Shonen action anime. Sure we still have great anime now, but it seem like people feel like the 80's and 90's put out better titles without trying to add boobs and cute looking girls to sell stuff. Hideaki Anno and Mayao Miyzaki seem to dislike the current anime industry and where it is going. Even classic directors like Mamoru Oshii, Yoshiaki Kawajiri and Katsuhiro Otomo don't seem to be that interest in the current anime industry neither.

It seems like we are probably never going to get any new titles on the same level as other great classics like Devilman, Cowboy Bebop, Akira, Ninja Scroll, Ghost in the Shell, The Wings of Honneamise, Vampire Hunter D, Robot Carnival and many others.

[Cipher]

It's really close!

Episode 67 is amazing though. Every time it reaches a nadir, it manages to pull something like that off.

[DragonBallFoodie]

I don't think it's awful, but I must admit that it has disappointed me.


The first two arcs I had seen in movie form, but as it did some things differently (dancing/cooking Vegeta, Ginyu returns) and it was for an audience that hadn't seen the films I can't really complain about those.

The tournament arc was fairly interesting and epic.

The Black Goku arc was a mixed bag for me. It started out great then became dragging and overlong like the Buu saga.

This new arc seems to be an interesting one, but I'll need to see more of it.


The thing to note is that DB's story is fairly simple, and hosts a wide variety of characters and some twists which we like/dislike, depending on our own point of view. It all comes down to our point of view, as Obi-Wan said.

[Faisal Shourov]

Super is awful. It's no different than 90% of the recent animes which are trash. I simply can't say Super is good after watching plenty of decent shonen/seinen which have actual plot and character development. There's not a single aspect of Super that's praiseworthy.

[Faisal Shourov]

It's Dragon Ball. It's Shonen. What are we comparing it to in order to say it's awful?

Hunter x Hunter

Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood

Code Geass

Magi

Steins Gate

If you have watched any of the shows above, please tell how Super holds a candle to these shows. It's generic trash

[Bullza]

Kinda killed your own argument when you mentioned that generic trash Magi. God lord that was dreadful.