Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

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Innagadadavida
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Re: Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

Post by Innagadadavida » Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:07 pm

mystic trunks wrote:How was Freeza "small potatoes"?
Comparatively speaking. By the end of the show, Goku could have accidentally sneezed on Freeza and utterly obliterate his entire existence. Also, Freeza destroyed planets, not reality.
mystic trunks wrote:Where did you get this "God of all creation"?
That is the position the Kaio Shin hold.
mystic trunks wrote:Yes, there were lots of 'cool transformations' but they had less meaning than they did in previous sagas. Out of nowhere, BAM, Trunks and Goten are super saiyans... What the hell is that? Also, Goku going SSJ 3 was cool and all, but it is never explained how it was achieved and ultimately, turned out to be a pretty useless transformation anyway.
How did Super Saiyan 3 or Fusion have any less meaning than other transformations? Please explain because I honestly don't understand what you mean. How was Super Saiyan 3 useless? Because Goku didn't use it to win? He didn't use Super Saiyan 2 to defeat Cell, does that make it useless to him? Vegeta didn't win with his Great Ape form, does that make it useless too? Piccolo got his ass handed to him in giant form, was that transformation useless? I don't consider any transformation the only means to an end, it's just entertainment. Something cool to watch.

The things you complain about are all over the place in Dragon Ball Z, yet for some reason you only have a problem with them in the Majin Buu arc. Why is that?

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Re: Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

Post by mystic trunks » Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:24 pm

Yes, by the end of the Show Goku could have defeated Freeza, That is because Goku had several chances at life and continued to get stronger. That is just character development and progression.

I don't ever recall It being stated that Shin created the Universe.

SSJ3 proved to be useless because he couldn't really use it in the living world. It's very Similar to how Trunks' USSJ3 form was useless.

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Re: Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

Post by Innagadadavida » Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:29 pm

mystic trunks wrote:I don't ever recall It being stated that Shin created the Universe.
I don't recall ever saying he did. I said he was the God of creation. Not that he created it.
mystic trunks wrote:SSJ3 proved to be useless because he couldn't really use it in the living world. It's very Similar to how Trunks' USSJ3 form was useless.
Exactly what I was saying. What is wrong with a transformation having limitations? How does that reflect poorly on Majin Buu as a villain or the Buu saga as a story arc?

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Re: Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

Post by mystic trunks » Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:37 pm

I made the thread about buu the character. I was simply responding to someone else's post.

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Re: Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

Post by Innagadadavida » Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:41 pm

mystic trunks wrote:I made the thread about buu the character. I was simply responding to someone else's post.
You still haven't responded to my questions. The things you're saying don't seem to hold up under scrutiny. Why do you have these problems with the Buu saga when the same things happens in the Cell saga and Namek saga? How is Fusion or Super Saiyan 3 any less important than other transformations, and then what is wrong with it if they are?

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Re: Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

Post by mystic trunks » Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:43 pm

I already answered these questions..

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Re: Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:58 pm

Innagadadavida wrote:The Buu saga was the absolute best saga of the Dragon Ball Z anime, and Majin Buu is the best villain of the entire series.

Were there tons of improvisations? Absolutely. But, this was a common practice with Dragon Ball. Personally I believe the worst offender of random needless improv was the Cell saga. The Buu saga had the perfect balance of humor and action. There was no more gung-ho seriousness and the show was all the better for it. The anime really hit its stride in terms of reasonable filler; I don't remember very many boring moments or dreaded cut-aways in the Buu saga, where as Namek and Cell games was riddled with them. There were tons of cool moves and transformations introduced (Fusion, Super Saiyan 3, Super Ghost Kamakaze, Beam Sword). The SciFi stuff is now mostly absent in favor of magic, which is where the series began. It was the best way to wrap it all up.

And Buu was the best villain because he was a legitimate threat. Freeza was small potatoes and Cell had his own obligations before he started being threatening. Majin Buu is more than just a monster, words can not describe what he is. He has no thoughts, no honor, no needs or wants, nothing but the burning desire for the destruction of everything. Also he was PINK and loves candy! It's a perfect unsettling juxtaposition to accentuate his chaotic nature and over-all absurdity. Even still, he posed a threat to all of existence; Heaven, Hell, Living Rhelm the Kaioshin Rhelm... The God of all creation was shitting his boots over Buu. How epic is that? Way more epic than bug man and hermaphrodite.
Wait, what? No offence, but Majin Boo Saga had to be the worst arc in the whole of Dragon Ball.

Majin Boo, while being a somewhat unique "villain", wasn't all that villainous, not compared to the likes of Vegeta and Freeza. The anime filler was ridiculous and poorly planned. The entire arc was riddled with blatant inconsistencies. At least the Freeza & Cell arcs went somewhere new with their sci-fi element.

There were cool moves and transformations in the Freeza & Cell arcs as well. Freeza Arc introduced Super Saiyan, Freeza's transformations. Cell Arc introduced Super Saiyan 2nd Grade & Super Saiyan 3rd Grade, Super Saiyan 2, 16's Hell's Flash, Final Flash. Perhaps Boo Arc had more moves and transformations, but that's not the main thing that makes an arc great.

Majin Boo wasn't a "legitimate" threat because, despite his strength and regeneration (the latter of which was ridiculously overused and was the main reason for his survival), he had the mindset of a child and all it took to stop him was saying "I think it's wrong". If you think Freeza was "small potatoes", then you haven't watched/read the Freeza Arc. He was the ruler of at least 79 planets, had built an intergalactic empire and was feared throughout the galaxy, even by Kaiô-Sama. "Also he was PINK and loves candy"? So what?

Kaiôshin was not "The God of all creation". There's no proof of that. Gods in Dragon Ball are very different to the gods percieved in the Western world. The gods in Dragon Ball are more like those Eastern gods.

And just because Cell looked like a bug and Freeza had feminine qualities doesn't make them any less of villains. You can't give them marks down just because of their character designs. I could do the same thing and say Majin Boo is less of a villain because he's a big, fat pink blob and wears a cape.

Don't get me wrong, Majin Boo Arc was fun and light-hearted while managing to maintaining the balance of action and seriousness, and it was good to see Toriyama going back to his gag roots. But sometimes it didn't take itself too seriously, and the arc itself was riddled with glaring inconsistencies that did make you stop and think, not to mention the awful plot devices twisted for plot convenience.

That's just my opinion.
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Re: Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

Post by MCDaveG » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:19 pm

I think that these discussions are going to nowhere......

Majin Buu is one of the best villains and Kid Buu is my girlfriend, so what's goin' on????
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Re: Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

Post by Miracles » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:53 pm

rereboy wrote:
Miracles wrote:Majin Buu was a true villain, the ultimate evil; evil personified [besides fat Buu]. Buu's only purpose was too kill, steal and destroy. Can't get anymore evil than that.
You could argue that he was insane.

I think that a sane person, who commits atrocious acts without any regret is more evil that a insane person. A insane person can`t help it. They are just sick.

Its like comparing Freeza to Kid Buu or Brolly.

Freeza was sane but he commited atrocious acts, killed millions, tortured millions, enslaved millions, destroy planets and races, all without any regret, because he wanted to rule them.

Kid buu is just crazy... He destroys stuff up and kills with no purpose because he just feels like it... If left unchecked he would destroy the entire universe till there was nothing left. What`s the point in doing that? Its just madness.
IIRC Kaioshin stated that Buu was just pure evil. It was his nature to destroy and kill, basically evil incarnate. Kid Buu was in his right mind cause that is who he is..Evil. Freeza did all of those things for a purpose, he was a tyrant and wanted to rule/immortaility ect.

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Re: Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

Post by rereboy » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:29 pm

Yes, Kid buu was insane/evil, a being of chaotic evil. He didn`t have a choice, it was his nature, like a shark will kill and eat its prey.

Freeza was a "normal" being. He had the choice to be good or bad. And that makes him a whole lot worse than kid buu.
(To me, that is what true, real evil is, since there is no such thing as evil personified in the real world. We just have insane/sick people who can´t help themselves, and people who are evil by choice, like Freeza was.)

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Re: Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

Post by mystic trunks » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:44 pm

rereboy wrote: Freeza was a "normal" being. He had the choice to be good or bad. And that makes him a whole lot worse than kid buu.
Exactly!

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Re: Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

Post by Bussani » Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:23 pm

mystic trunks wrote:
rereboy wrote: Freeza was a "normal" being. He had the choice to be good or bad. And that makes him a whole lot worse than kid buu.
Exactly!
...That's exactly what I said several pages back. I must just speak another language sometimes by mistake.
Piccolo Daimao wrote:Kaiôshin was not "The God of all creation". There's no proof of that. Gods in Dragon Ball are very different to the gods percieved in the Western world. The gods in Dragon Ball are more like those Eastern gods.
As he said in his following post, he meant that the Kaioshin were the gods that watched over creation -- that is, all of reality -- not the gods who created it.
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Re: Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

Post by MCDaveG » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:51 am

That's known from philosophy, that the true god is not watching over, but he's creator, if the main god will be in the role of watcher, he will lose his purpose. That's not the 100% citation, but it's based like this..... Also, god don't needs to be person or some kind of deity, he can also be a creative power with higher meaning or he is the whole universe including living beings as some kind of huge organism.

Probably god who created DB universe is something you can't imagine and you will never see it........ Of course, If Toriyama won't draw some gag overkill.

We can't base Dragon Ball on real religions.
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Re: Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

Post by Bussani » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:31 am

MCDaveG wrote:We can't base Dragon Ball on real religions.
But...there are many religions where deity-hierarchies are the same as in Dragon Ball. As someone pointed out in either this thread or another one, the Buddhist gods in Saiyuki aren't really any different, for starters. Same with Norse gods.

PS: Toriyama is the creator god of the Dragon Ball universe.
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Re: Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

Post by mystic trunks » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:37 am

Bussani wrote:
mystic trunks wrote:
rereboy wrote: Freeza was a "normal" being. He had the choice to be good or bad. And that makes him a whole lot worse than kid buu.
Exactly!
...That's exactly what I said several pages back. I must just speak another language sometimes by mistake.
Piccolo Daimao wrote:Kaiôshin was not "The God of all creation". There's no proof of that. Gods in Dragon Ball are very different to the gods percieved in the Western world. The gods in Dragon Ball are more like those Eastern gods.
As he said in his following post, he meant that the Kaioshin were the gods that watched over creation -- that is, all of reality -- not the gods who created it.
I said it too, and i'm pretty sure I acknowledged you when you said it...

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Re: Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

Post by Majin Buu » Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:44 am

As another fan of the Buu arc, it makes me feel good to see so many people defending it. I agree with those that have said it, Buu was a more unique antagonist that Freeza and Cell because he was humorous. He was someone that could destroy a planet and kill millions and at the same time, put a smile on your face with his goofiness. Even when he becomes more evil (and eventually smarter) as Super Buu, he retains that humorous element to him. His abilities also make for a unique, interesting, and unusual fighting style (turning people into candy? An odd way to kill someone, but it gets the job done nevertheless). People bash him for his regeneration ability, but really, at this point there were so many super powerful characters with abilities that could end fights in one attack, what other option did Toriyama have to create an antagonist that was hard to beat?

I also agree with another poster that theorized that Toriyama did not enjoy writing the Cell arc, given all of the concessions he had to make because of his editors in it. It does seem like he was having more fun with the Buu arc, which I like to think negates the popular belief that he simply "stopped caring" or "was past his prime" at that point and threw it together halfheartedly. I also think did it this way because he knew it would be the last arc and wanted to go all out, so he went in a different direction and did all kinds of crazy things (much more humor, a villain that looks like pink bubble gum and has the mentality of a child, fusion, the exaggerated appearance of super saiyan 3, killing off almost the entire cast, killing off the entire population of Earth, eventually destroying the Earth itself, etc.), and I think he succeed in what he wanted to do with it. Like so many others have said, he wanted to return to his roots and the roots of the series as a mystical gag manga, and I think he integrated both gag and serious elements well with this arc. Like another poster said, I think the reason so many (English) fans bash the Buu arc is because they weren't introduced to Dragon Ball as a humorous series, but as "SUPER HARDCORE SERIOUS DRAMA". For them, the transition from that to a stronger emphasis on humor is jarring and unacceptable.

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Re: Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

Post by HazelMystic » Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:58 pm

At first I really loved the Buu Saga, but I do feel Majin Buu's ability complete dwarf the preceeding Sagas. To me, it just seems a bit awkward with Buu in the series. I resign myself by saying that the series ended with Cell. Perfect Cell brings all the history of DB/DBZ into full view. Perfect Cell is the synthesis of the greatest warriors, and it makes you appreciate them more. Buu just completely annihilates everything before him imho. The other side characters had also become nearly abyssmal, so the series was crashing down under its own weight at that point.

My favorite villains are #17 and #18.

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Re: Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

Post by Majin Buu » Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:26 pm

HazelMystic wrote:At first I really loved the Buu Saga, but I do feel Majin Buu's ability complete dwarf the preceeding Sagas. To me, it just seems a bit awkward with Buu in the series.
Buu just completely annihilates everything before him imho.
Didn't The Saiyans completely dwarf Piccolo Daimao? Didn't Freeza completely dwarf the Saiyans? Didn't Cell completely dwarf Freeza and everything that came before him too? Why is this only a problem with Buu when every succeeding villain completely dwarfs all the ones that came before?

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Re: Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

Post by GreggMays64 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:46 pm

My opinions on the villains and their minions or companions.

Frieza: Awsome villain, I love him.
The Ginyu Corps: They're okay I guess.
Zarbon: Hes also okay.
Dodoria: Another Okay villain.
Vegeta: I love him, he is a complete badass.
Nappa: He is also awesomel
Raditz: Quite a badass for his time.

Number 20: He is nothing special, other than he is the guy responsible for the whole Cell thing.
Number 19: I hated him and laughed my ass off when he got his ass handed to him by Vegeta.
Number 18: She's beautiful, and a badass at the same time.
Number 17: One of my favorite villains.
Number 16: Not actually villainous, but he is awesome.
Cell: I love him, he is a badass.

Babidi: This guy is annoying.
Dabura: My favorite out of Babidi's group.
Majin Vegeta: Another one of my favorites out of Babidi's group.
Yakon: He was nothing special.
Pui Pui: I laughed my ass off watching him get his ass handed by Vegeta.
Spopovich: He is nothing special.
Yamu: He is also nothing special.

Now for the moment we all been waiting for, Majin Buu.

Fat Buu: He is basically like Empereor Pilaf as if he was more calm and stupid and actually kills people.
Evil Buu: One of my favorite forms. This needs to make more appearances in games
Super Buu: I love this form, he is a complete badass.
Gotenks Buu: He is also a badass.
Piccolo Buu: He is okay, but also needs to make more appearances in the games.
Gohan Buu: My favorite, and yes I am those douches that think he would kick Kid Buu's ass.
Kid Buu: He isn't that great. Does he have a personality? He is just an out of control Super Sayain 3 level Cell Jr. Anyone that likes him just because he can blow up planets need to watch the earlier episodes more.

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Re: Why Majin Buu is the worst villain in DBZ

Post by Drayenko » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:16 pm

GreggMays64 wrote: Gohan Buu: My favorite, and yes I am those douches that think he would kick Kid Buu's ass.
Super Buu could destroy Kid Buu by just blinking half of an eye...

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